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[Resolved] Player(s) Complaint - Group of Mercs


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BYOND Key: Tomkiel
Game ID: b07-djWB
Player Byond Key/Character name: Voidcrawler (name dropped as the biggest offender),  Radstorm, Blondie, Jason Melson. (I am not a 100% if EVERYONE was the offender here, but these are all the mercs, the ERT mercs could've also been a part of it? But I haven't heard many complaints about that directed at them)
Staff involved: None, some people in deadchat essentially came to the conclusion that to make a report on the players. (Although Read told us that we should've ahelped this earlier which- yeah, we probably should've)
Reason for complaint: Validhunting, essentially deathmatching
Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? As said above, shuttle was basically at the station so I didn't want to draw the round end out with an ahelp
Approximate Date/Time: 14.01.2021-15.01.2021 - Around Midnight GMT +1

 

So, to start off with, I did not witness a large part of what happened, this report was a collective decision from a few people in Deadchat, after piecing together the situation. For more info, @DanseMacabre, Spider4062, @Scheveningen, and possibly some more people whose names I didn't catch, should be contacted.

I started the round as my cadet on their first day at the job, yay! After a while, a hostage situation call came in. An officer died in a normal situation, no biggie so far. After a while, security retreated to command, where my cadet was shot dead. (My gun was on the floor, and I was surrendering, but it all happened in the fray of the action so eh, whatever). After I ghosted, the ERT that was called in, came in, and actually joined with the mercs, annoying but not rule-breaking. And after that, it seemed almost that the mercs went on a power trip, gunning down everyone, including the HoS, that they had hostage, unarmed, and just standing there, as well as apparently gunning down civilians, and through all of that, they seemed to pretty much ignore their whole objective (Which was never really relayed as anything other than a single word of "finances"). During all of that in deadchat, I heard from different (mostly security players) that they were fired upon without a warning, prior to the escalation of hostilities.

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Hi, Voidcrawler here. I want to clear a few things up.

I did not know the ERT at all, they said something about recognising my character so I went along with it.
You did surrender, but by that point we were in combat with security and we are not obligated to accept your surrender. This is not the UN and my Skrell did not have a blue helmet.
The HoS I think was caused by an aiming problem (person activates aim intent and forgets to deactivate move, talk etc) and after one started shooting the rest joined in CM style (I am not innocent).
The ERT decided that me giving them cash then and there was better than command maybe paying them after the fact.

I do not believe I gunned down anyone unarmed or any civilians. I cannot speak for my team as I do not control their actions. I killed one security officer because while I was detaining them near the start they decided to not surrender to armed gunmen and ran away.

Happy to answer any questions, round was hectic so I apologise if I get any details wrong/unaware of them.

EDIT: Recalling I did shoot at a couple of unarmed individuals, but they were told to stop before this happened. They refused to stop so they got shot at - situation in engineering is a good example of this.

Edited by SHODAN
Missed a detail
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41 minutes ago, SHODAN said:

You did surrender, but by that point we were in combat with security and we are not obligated to accept your surrender. This is not the UN and my Skrell did not have a blue helmet.

Yeah- I'm not really angry at that, happened in the heat of the moment, I get it. Was just recalling how the round went for me

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Alright... as I was bullied to write this by a certain someone I'll write a comment. I play the off-station antag Blondie

From my perspective, as I was fairly incapacitated for most of the beginning parts of the round by getting arrested by security and stripped down to just my jumpsuit I saw a lack of communication between Security, Command, and the Mercs. Frankly though, I feel like the main problem's were the ERT team, which shouldn't've joined our side at all as we had less money, didn't comment about the fact 5 briefcases of credits just came into thin air, and denied phoron (from what I heard) because it's too hot. 

There were some iffy moments with mercenaries just like there was some with security and command. IE: Some mercenaries using a bit more force than what was needed, security not taking the fact the mercenaries had hostages seriously, and command... was just being command not very much a CE could do other than rush for Captain and apply a HoS.

I witnessed most of what Shodan has done and when it came to Voidcrawler I feel like most of what Voidcrawler did to be the right thing to do, there were some moments like prodding a person who was already on the ground but that was effectively what I said before as excessive force which shouldn't... really be a problem if it's a group of mercenaries instead of a group of trained security professionals. 

As for myself I don't... really think any time I fired a rifle I started the confrontation, for examples: either security did when they flashed me while I had a hostage, or I joined in an ongoing fire fight started by either my team or the ERT.

 

47 minutes ago, tomkiel said:

including the HoS, that they had hostage, unarmed, and just standing there, as well as apparently gunning down civilians

As I was right next to most it while it happened I can explain both, the HoS issue was caused by the ERT team who from what I heard from LOOC was a misclick when they tried to aim, but that happened multiple times and I also saw some complaints from ghosts through LOOC that they've been misclicking so many times it's no longer an excuse.

And the mercs didn't fire on compliant civilians nor did we pursue and kill those that got out of our grasp, we let multiple past as we were making our way to leave the only people we fired on was a security officer who fired at us from the checkpoint who we fired at but didn't peruse into the docks he fell back into. 

(If I messed anything up here or am dead wrong feel free to tell me and I'll correct it)

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I was the mercenary Radstorm and can definitely agree that that round was pretty much a trashfire from about an hour onward. It happens in mercenary rounds, and the addition of a merc ERT who was actually playing the "alliance to the highest bidder" angle out in RP just ended up forming the perfect storm. It's hard for me to really respond to the material of this complaint without specific incidents being brought up-- given how many different firefights went on throughout those two hours all blurring together --but generally I believe that we reacted suitably to security and did not, to my knowledge, engage when we had not been shot at first.

For posterity's sake, our OOCly decided upon gimmick was going to be implanting people with explosives and then just turning them loose onto the station to do our bidding under threat of being blown up. This was on track for all of 20 minutes before Blondie was captured and we had to shift focus to getting them back and then treating them in the now empty medical. After that, trying to get the gimmick back on track seemed futile when security wasn't taking the fact that we had the implanted Detective with us seriously so we pivoted to the more bland "let us into the vault, I guess". That's when the ERT beacon went off and things slid off into further chaos from there.

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1 hour ago, DaTruRiZZoB said:

From my perspective, as I was fairly incapacitated for most of the beginning parts of the round by getting arrested by security and stripped down to just my jumpsuit I saw a lack of communication between Security, Command, and the Mercs. Frankly though, I feel like the main problem's were the ERT team, which shouldn't've joined our side at all as we had less money, didn't comment about the fact 5 briefcases of credits just came into thin air, and denied phoron (from what I heard) because it's too hot.

I was part of the ERT, but not the lead. I'd say you should have really spoken up if you saw that as an issue, whether ICly or in the AOOC (we can see that, but can't comment). I myself was pushing the team to consider station offers more. None of you except Voidwalker really talked to us though. For those points, less money wasn't really a factor, your lead said themselves it was 50k on top of what was in command which would have been a far higher payout than what the station could give either way. There's no reason to comment on the fact that five briefcases of credits came into thin air, money is money. All I heard about the phoron thing was that a researcher was offering it, but that's still really not a huge factor. In the end, barring the incident where the freelancer lead accidentally shot the HoS as they misconfigured the aim function, which led to everyone both merc and freelancer shooting them. We followed the lead of the mercenaries ultimately. The ERT wasn't causing new engagements as that would defeat the point of following the lead of a client.

With that said. I think siding with the crew would've been the best option for the round but I can't really fault anyone for actually acting as a freelancer should be doing and chasing the higher payout if they feel that'd be advantageous. There's always common misconceptions regarding them. I've seen people thinking NT already pays for them before they already arrive, or afterward. They don't. It's up to the station to pay the freelancers, and freelancers are outright told this in their instructions. Would say to make a suggestion to have them already paid by NT, if it is upsetting to have this quirk of the ERT actually put into play. I get the upset, but nobody was looking for "frags" in particular. That's a bit of a gamey point of view.

Edited by WickedCybs
extra thing
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Hi there, I was Jason Melson that round. It was my first time playing merc since I recently started playing Aurora again this week, after a 2 year break.

 

I felt that it was a bit disorganized at the start, our gimmick was mainly to put explosive implants on people to make them sleeper agents, but I wasn't sure what was our end-goal. Having the vault be our end-goal was during the middle of it all.

 

I disagree with the claim we were shooting civilians indiscriminately. I'd always yell "Run!" to any civilians we caught wandering the halls, and I never chased after them. I'm pretty sure I can say the same for the other mercs, though we were split up sometimes so I can't 100% guarantee.

 

One thing to note is the hostages themselves. Me and the others felt security and command did not care that we had what was essentially an explosive collar on some hostages necks. I really loved the Skrell detective we took hostage; great RPer. The number of times he had to remind security that we had him as a hostage was a little astonishing. We'd also get lots of times where security would open fire as soon as we entered the screen that led to a lot of shootouts. I wouldn't complain about that if it wasn't for the fact that security knew from the start that we had a hostage.

 

As for the ERT, I can't exactly comment on what happened between us and them as I was mainly a lookout at the time. I did see several briefcases near ERT though, and then they turned friendly with us and started shooting up security with us. I do kinda disagree with it, they'd be practically hunted throughout Biesel by NanoTrasen for doing that. I will say that negotations took a good few minutes in person, so it wasn't like ERT instantly jumped on with us.

 

I feel like this round was chaotic because of several factors (trigger happy sec, and ERT siding with antags etc.) but I don't think the blame should solely be on the mercs.

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I was one of the officers present for this round. I had a pretty mild role in the decision-making, as I was primarily awaiting command to tell me what to do half the time rather than taking charge myself as a character that is an EPMC contractor. Which, naturally is frowned upon, emergency or not. Wasn't like sec was gonna round to my banner anyway, you know? People tend to vote for themselves. Anyway, that's just me reaping what I sow and crying about it.

So, it might just be best for me to concisely analyze what happened from my perspective. This is a fairly long Schevpost™ because I can't resist going into detail. I really have taken a liking to bullet points lately, so here goes:

* Initial start of the round is very uneventful, mostly just a lot of walking around for me and doing creepy corporate wellness checks/spying on the NanoTrasen personnel members to get some dirt.
* There is a very small argument about "WHO TOOK THE BINOCULARS." It was me. >:)
* A security officer starts blabbing about how they're taken hostage in "bat" when they meant "bar". Honestly, I had to wait until someone explained they meant "bar". First time a misspelling completely befuddled me in awhile.
** Apparently, a Skrell forensic technician was also taken hostage, but they were a hostage for the entire round despite our attempts to negotiate. The only notable amount of impact they had on the round was the amount of talking they did.
* Ramzan and my officer, Farida, march down but get cut off at the south ring of the holodeck. We see CeSium and Rushodan's mercenaries (note, I wasn't aware they were the mercs at the time, just saying this to make it easier). 
* It immediately clicks to Farida and Ramzan to bolt in separate directions, so as to be of greater help later. It's chaotic for the mercs to try to get that under control. Faridah gets chased by Voidsomething (Rushodan's Skrell merc), as they fruitlessly try to tase a shell IPC. Well, at least they tried.
* Farida finally regroups and recoups with the rest of security. A borg opens the armory and the closet contents. How helpful.
* What remains of active security arms up. Farida and Ramzan notice that a mercenary (Blondie, ckey not known) is split off from the main mercenary deathball, dragging along Neith Mekesatis, pharmacist, to engineering. They both decide to divide and conquer but also try to pull the hostage out.
* The flashbang play happens, and Farida quickly drags Mekesatis to relative safety, and he warns her that they have an explosive implant in his head. Farida tells them to get to medical as quick as they can.
* Farida re-groups and tries to help neutralize Blondie next, but Blondie is already floored for the most part. Farida instructs Ramzan to go to medical while Farida gets Blondie to the brig...
* To which the two (not counting Ramzan) are intercepted by Voidsomething in the hall. Farida is shot at immediately, without a word. Farida briefly uses Blondie as a shield to make Voidsomething think twice. The plan works, and Farida is able to fall back.
** As to the above, I'm uncertain as to whether the "shooting on sight" was necessarily justified. I don't think the point of contention really matters seeing as how many of the decisions made by both the mercenaries and the security team up to this point were a bit up to subjective interpretation of right/wrong from an OOC roleplay+gameplay point of view.
* Continuing, Farida mostly fullstrips any weapons/armor from Blondie. Seeing as how the entire security department was under-armed anyway, the rest of security might've re-appropriated the mercenary equipment, yours truly included.
* Eventually, security was forced to capitulate to hostage trading demands. The security officer that was originally taken hostage goes free, without their security equipment since it was mostly fair to do so from the mercenary perspective. We shrugged it off, knowing the life of the officer was worth it even if their equipment was reappropriated to the mercenary.
* A lot of dancing around and avoiding confrontation soon followed. There is a lot of uncertainty from the security team due to a lack of a team leader from a de facto standpoint. While Ramzan did have a HOS upgraded ID, nobody was really told he was the HOS, and Farida only went along with his advisement because... it seemed like decent advice at the time. The mercs went to medbay because Blondie wasn't comprehensively treated of their injuries. Everyone cleared out of medical to avoid getting taken hostage. Except the Skrell who was already a hostage from earlier.
** This is the point of the round where my memory is a bit fuzzy and I don't recall the chain of events particularly well, anyone feel free to correct me.
* Negotiations still fail to be established, but the security team learns for the most part that they're after financial gain and possibly plan on sieging the vault. Security took defensive positions and held out, while the mercenaries were forced to disengage. And then...
* ...comes the tipping point of the round where command actually called ERT. Well, the station got unlucky. We got the Freelancer Miser Squadron that everyone loves so much. I will point out I have nothing personally against the freelancers who played, but the way the ERT subtype is designed is absolutely dumb and will often favor the force that pulls the largest wad of cash out of their ass first. Which is what happened. Somehow the mercenaries ass-pulled enough cash before command did, and so Miser Squadron was able to reinforce the mercenaries by a factor of two, which made the odds of security surviving the round extremely unlikely.
** I should point out this only happened because it seemed like command was really pussy-footing around and not seeing the urgency of getting money together to pay off the freelancers first. But I will say the mercs played their dominant positioning as I would expect a decent antagonist to, because the actions of the mercenaries made it impossible for command to be bold and try to risk getting the credits together. So, "well played" on the merc side of things. The station just got fucked in regards to the hand they played, it happens.
* After half of sec getting stuck in the bridge for a bit, Farida decides to sneak past the merc positions and get the combat mech. Unfortunately, mech guns are absolute dogshit in terms of fire delay, and I neglected to use mech punching to whittle down the bloated mercenary team's numbers. It was a 1v8 situation in the end, and Farida fell in combat without killing anyone! Very sad.
* By this point I ghost because I was a bit salty with how the round ended. And I was almost hardcrit dead threshold anyway.
** But not anymore! I'm not incredibly torn about how the round went, in retrospect, and I regret a lot of the things I did say in deadchat/ooc/discord. I apologize for that. 

I will say that the biggest downsides from the antagonists in particular was a fervent lack of direct communication to the security team - which, I know, you want to involve other people besides security. The alternative scenario of ghosting security in terms of communication probably isn't ideal since it leaves them into a position of, "Okay, so, what, do we have to frag them and that's how this is supposed to go?" Command and security weren't exactly in sync that round, they were very much separated entities as most of the officers that round each had individual ideas on how to deal with the threat. I slightly resent being shot without equivalent force escalation that occurred prior, since it sort of tells me you're less interested in roleplaying with me as you are simply shooting me and removing me from the round, for the most part.

And I'm a bit annoyed that freelancers are a thing the way they are (question of mechanics, not roleplay), and a bit annoyed they sided with the already overwhelmingly winning force of conflict on the station (a questionable gameplay decision, at worst) - but I still think this wasn't really a problem since it made a ton of sense from an IC point of view. This was totally preventable of an outcome, too - a majority of the failing of that round comes down to a lack of distinguished leadership rushing to take immediate action as potential consequence started to rear its head. There were more followers waiting for somebody to step up and take the reins rather than that somebody actually existing in the round to change stuff. Most of my whining comes from a place of "oh but consideration for roleplay and gameplay has to be fairly balanced and deeply considered!" but not everyone takes certain things as seriously as I do, and I'm not about to force people to adhere to my personal style of decision-making. People make mistakes or end up with sub-optimal outcomes. I'd prefer the folks from this round analyze what happened and come up with their own idea on what they think needs personal improvement. I am no authority on this matter.

Edited by Scheveningen
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Hi Schev, those were some excellent points and as usual your detail was top notch. I agree I should have made more of an effort in engaging with you after Blondie was arrested but at this point I was going off two things.

Firstly, I had told you to stop before and you did not (Void hadn’t worked out you were an IPC due to their dumb player) and was concerned you’d charge into security with Blondie where they couldn’t follow. I’m not faulting you here, I’d keep running if a merc was trying to taze me as an ipc too!

Secondly, you were right outside of security and my team was in the bar. Void was super concerned that the rest of sec would come charging out and that would be half the team gone instead of just one. Time was extremely short, meaning that action had to be taken instead of Words.

Absolutely agree that communication wasn’t fantastic across the board and everyone suffered because of it.

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Hi, I played the detective during the round.

 

Let me give my side of things on what happened:

- Mercs appear on station in the central ring, immediately go to take hostages

- Hostages are implanted with explosives

- Already kill one security officer, which was valid I believe because they tried escaping when held up

- At this point is clear that they have little regard for crew life, question about calling ERT is raised

- Mercs were asked over communications multiple times about what they had wanted, about 4-5 times by security, command, and medical crew even

- Mercs refused to state any demands and were non-chalant for a good bit

- I was shot on sight twice for trying to establish a line of communication despite not having a weapon out, the second time I had to go the rest of the round with shrapnel in me

- ERT was called because no demands were given nor did they seem like they cared or wanted to, and crew had already died

- Mercs finally gave their "demands" which was simply the word 'finances'

- Mercs moved to try and take engineering, then went to the bridge were a large portion of the crew was bunkered up

- It was at this point that officers were just engaged on sight without any chance to get in dialogue or roleplay of any sort, it devolved into a TDM fest

- ERT arrived on station, a mercenary group that called themselves the Iron-Scales

- As ERT arrived on station they said something over radio to the mercs like "Hey I recognize that voice from the heist last week", this made us believe that they spawned into the round with intentions of joining the mercs, as evidenced by how quickly they switched sides

- Told them the situation, they demanded payment upfront, when it was told to them that it would be difficult given the situation, they immediately went to the mercs

- Mercs made it clear that they weren't on-station for the money and were just "trying to send a message"

- ERT switched over to join the literal terrorists because they gave them 50000 credits upfront, roughly equivalent to $16000 today(?)

- ERT showed absolutely no concern about out of round implications or what it would mean to the name of their organization if they were to join terrorists in shooting up a civilian station

- ERT opened fire on the HoS, not even allowing them to get a word in, it clearly was a mistake of utilizing the aim-intent, so the HoS stood still, rotated in place, and instead of being asked to surrender or given a chance to talk, was just gunned down

image.thumb.png.90cce3a5613573bdf549fad412cec325.png

- 5 briefcases of cash were enough to convince freelance mercenaries to defect to the side of terrorists, gunning down crew without any complaint

- Very little reasoning for the ERT to behave this way, given the context of the server, clearly no consideration was made and the whole idea of defecting seemed pre-determined given the ERT immediately "recognizing" the mercs from their voice

- Overall just a very unenjoyable round, seemed more like emphasis was put on clicking until horizontal than trying to pursue some sort of an engaging narrative, I can't think of a single person that was crew who thought what went on during the round was acceptable from an OOC standpoint

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Quote

 

As ERT arrived on station they said something over radio to the mercs like "Hey I recognize that voice from the heist last week", this made us believe that they spawned into the round with intentions of joining the mercs, as evidenced by how quickly they switched sides

 

Not really, there was banter at the freelancer base on whether or not to consider offers from the mercenaries at all, and the lead figured he would "recognize" them to add in a rub, like a rivalry. None of us set out at the start to join either side right away, logs would be able to see the conversations.

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- ERT showed absolutely no concern about out of round implications or what it would mean to the name of their organization if they were to join terrorists in shooting up a civilian station

Don't need to pretend they were known corporate mercenaries like EPMCs, freelancers work for themselves. Slipping away into the Coalition, Wildlands or wherever else would have been very possible. To say it isn't is in the same league as when crew yell at any antag that survives without being killed by security that "NT will hunt you down!".

Additionally, there's a reason freelancers specifically get an option to not do what the crew wants them to do. If that's a factor which is disliked, it'd be best to actually make a suggestion about it being changed. 

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- ERT opened fire on the HoS, not even allowing them to get a word in, it clearly was a mistake of utilizing the aim-intent, so the HoS stood still, rotated in place, and instead of being asked to surrender or given a chance to talk, was just gunned down

This much is true, the mercs also joined in on this after the lead misfired.

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- 5 briefcases of cash were enough to convince freelance mercenaries to defect to the side of terrorists, gunning down crew without any complaint

The ones that shot at us without complaint, yes. If we really wanted a TDM-fest, think we would have shot the medical staff trying to head to the bridge or wandering medical for supplies during the evac.

Quote

- Very little reasoning for the ERT to behave this way, given the context of the server, clearly no consideration was made and the whole idea of defecting seemed pre-determined given the ERT immediately "recognizing" the mercs from their voice

This was addressed in the first thing, but again, it's flimsy to lean on this. You were dealing with freelancers who are paid to shoot people, not TCFL willing to die in droves for a phoron company. Even if it wasn't my personal choice, the lead's decision was valid when it came to the options a freelancer team had. I get that it's upsetting, but that's how it is.

In any case, I sympathize with command's state, but even I kind of felt like they were taking their sweet time once the mercs stopped sieging the bridge and entered negotiations with the ERT. There was time to leave the bridge, go to the vault, whatever during then. Then the merc lead dropped their money first, with the promise for more. Fact that the HoS walked towards the clump of mercs and ERT from the western hall rather than the direction from the north, where the vault was made me think there really was no urgency in putting together anything, that or it was all designated to the HoS at the last moment.

 

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Hi there, I played as Redde, the ERT Merc of the Iron-Scales during the round in question.

I can confirm that we did not go in there with intention to side with the mercs already on station. In fact, I'm pretty sure my character said at one point "Can we go fuck them up?" or words to that affect. The leader of our group, the Unathi named Tango-Scales-Something seemed to recognize them from an "earlier" heist and I'm pretty sure the rest of us went along with it.

Otherwise, yeah, everything else @WickedCybs said was correct.

Once the two ERT mercs in the bar got beaned, the other two that survived, myself and someone else I cannot remember, grabbed the bodies of our fallen and left. We did not hang around.

 

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To clarify, I did, as HOS communicate we would beat the 50 grand. I was moving to withdraw the station funds when I was gunned down.

My issue in this as the HoS who got shot is not the ERT players or the Antags, rather the highest bidder mentality. I would like to see that changed, perhaps in the wording that's given from the ERT. The wordless shooting was a gamer moment and everyone CM brained on it. Not that big of a deal in the end. Accidents happen. At the end of the day the freelancer swapped sides to remember no russian for 50k plus whatever they found in command. So let's say they took the entire station funds. 75k plus another 50k for a total of 135k. It used to be a cred its what? 3 creds to a dollar. That sums up to about 45 grand for a full team to split which comes down to about 11k per team member, assuming it's even a fair split, in trade for their entire reputation in known space against one of the largest megacorps and enter life as branded pirates.

And that is where the issue lies imho. It's not unique to this round specifically. But rather the way freelancer ERT is as a whole. We see this happen all the time and it's not good for the round. As a command player, when I saw the contractors bidding with the antags. I had 0 reason IC'ly not to walk to the bridge and hit the evacuation shuttle. Our rescue was no longer reliable and my concern is the crew as well as the station which I can no longer defend. This is also not good for the round or the antags who have invested in the round. I'm not saying ERT needs to be paladin knights who only come to left click the antag until horizontal. But typically, if ERT is called, having them left click a disabled crew as well doesn't seem like the best idea either.

But that is just my take on a very short run in this round.

Edited by Bear
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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for your patience. Our decision is as follows:

Based on the testimony provided in this thread, we feel the Mercenary team was not acting in bad faith to simply kill crew members with no RP. We recognize that the round was "messy", and that communication was poor on all ends, and that much of the annoyance with the round stems from the fact that the ERT sided with the mercenary team, resulting in a vastly outgunned station.

Furthermore, we are choosing not to punish the ERT team for siding with the mercenaries, as was not against the rules at the time of this round. A PR has already been merged that should rectify this issue in the future. You can find it here. https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/11071

If there are no further concerns, I will be marking this as resolved in 24 hours.

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  • Flamingo changed the title to [Resolved] Player(s) Complaint - Group of Mercs
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