NBT Testing Weekends

[Lly2]

One of the machines to store chemicals, like what exists in medical's chemistry lab, would be a nice addition for scientists. Additionally, pill bottles would be nice, just to avoid scientists ferrying loose pills around in their pockets. I don't think it has any risk of treading on the toes of the actual chemist, since science's chemistry shouldn't be used for producing medicine, and if anyone tries to do that they can just be ahelped anyway.

Currently, without lockers in the RnD lab and nowhere to store chemicals in the chemistry room adjacent, it ends up that there are a lot of random things, like loose pills and components, strewn about on desks by the end of the round.

[Myazaki]

This will be in for the next testing weekend. The intention is to add more useful things that engineers can do with atmospherics, that actually has an impact on the round - Both preventative and reactive measures. This will be tweaked further, and there is more to come.

 

Changelog

• Greatly reduced the maximum amount of moles of air that can be stored within the atmospherics supply/scrubbers pipelines.
• Increased the starting target pressure of the air mixing tank to air supply pipeline to 2,000 kPA to compensate. (So the amount of air in the loop at the start is approximately the same.)
• Mapped in three atmospherics substations in maintenance (two on D2, one on D3). Engineers can visit these and adjust their pumps to store up air for times of crisis.
• Air supply to some departments / sections of the ship can be more easily cut off or joined to other departments if those departments are struggling.
• Ventcrawling mobs should be able to access most areas of the ship from any other area without being blended by pressure regulators.

 

I'm hoping that the consequences of these changes will be:

• Antagonists will have options for atmospherics sabotage that target more specific areas of the ship rather than all of it.
• Atmospherics gameplay has decisions beyond "set the pressure of the air supply loop to max to solve all the problems". Instead the bottleneck moves more toward the amount of air being pumped into the air supply loop per time.

 

Since the supply line won't contain many times the amount of air as the main atmos air tank -- And the supply to some departments can be separated more easily -- I can look at adding other mechanics like pipe leaking / bursting in future without it being as punishing.

Probably going to add more maintenance atmos rooms when I find the space on the map to do so.

Feedback from Engineers in the next rounds would be appreciated. Thank you!

[Yonnimer]

Some feedback on mining:

• The shuttle is a massive pain to pilot, having to give yourself carpel tunnel and spam click a button 100+ times to make reasonable speed just kinda sucks. Easy solution to me would be to just make it a number you input rather than having to spam something to gain speed, or give the shuttle more efficient fuel to move quicker. 
• Building on to the previous point, it takes way too long for mining to be able to send minerals back to the ship for science to operate. I think this is mostly just due to how long it takes for the ship to go back and forth from a mining site, you either have to wait 20-30 minutes for the horizon itself to move over one or spam click a button for 15 minutes to have the mining shuttle make reasonable speed. Fixing the previous point would help with this issue, also giving mining a free warppack and beacon from either their coin or just on roundstart would be helpful, since they can teleport ore from the mining site to the horizon instantly. 

Other than that I do actually think the system is alright, especially so once we get more varied mining sites.  

[Gr33d]

5 hours ago, Yonnimer said:

Some feedback on mining:

• The shuttle is a massive pain to pilot, having to give yourself carpel tunnel and spam click a button 100+ times to make reasonable speed just kinda sucks. Easy solution to me would be to just make it a number you input rather than having to spam something to gain speed, or give the shuttle more efficient fuel to move quicker. 
• Building on to the previous point, it takes way too long for mining to be able to send minerals back to the ship for science to operate. I think this is mostly just due to how long it takes for the ship to go back and forth from a mining site, you either have to wait 20-30 minutes for the horizon itself to move over one or spam click a button for 15 minutes to have the mining shuttle make reasonable speed. Fixing the previous point would help with this issue, also giving mining a free warppack and beacon from either their coin or just on roundstart would be helpful, since they can teleport ore from the mining site to the horizon instantly. 

Other than that I do actually think the system is alright, especially so once we get more varied mining sites.  

I very much second this option on adding a warppack and beacon to mining. Not only would this make mining more fun but also makes more sense. On station you could go mining for like 5 mins, go in grab the upgrades and leave for your usual shift but thats not only harder, but more painful to do on the shuttle. That said, mining with the shuttle is a ton of fun. Also, the mining shuttle can actually reach a really good speed without having to spam the button, you just need to get a good fuel mix with Co2 (Just spreading this knowledge because that thing zooms with Co2 in it), although this is not always an option and when its not driving it can be a massive pain. Spawning with a small Co2 tank or something could be a good compromise, as just hydrogen feels like something is broken with how slow it is to move.

[Boggle08]

On 17/02/2022 at 12:29, Myazaki said:

This will be in for the next testing weekend. The intention is to add more useful things that engineers can do with atmospherics, that actually has an impact on the round - Both preventative and reactive measures. This will be tweaked further, and there is more to come.

 

Changelog

• Greatly reduced the maximum amount of moles of air that can be stored within the atmospherics supply/scrubbers pipelines.
• Increased the starting target pressure of the air mixing tank to air supply pipeline to 2,000 kPA to compensate. (So the amount of air in the loop at the start is approximately the same.)
• Mapped in three atmospherics substations in maintenance (two on D2, one on D3). Engineers can visit these and adjust their pumps to store up air for times of crisis.
• Air supply to some departments / sections of the ship can be more easily cut off or joined to other departments if those departments are struggling.
• Ventcrawling mobs should be able to access most areas of the ship from any other area without being blended by pressure regulators.

 

I'm hoping that the consequences of these changes will be:

• Antagonists will have options for atmospherics sabotage that target more specific areas of the ship rather than all of it.
• Atmospherics gameplay has decisions beyond "set the pressure of the air supply loop to max to solve all the problems". Instead the bottleneck moves more toward the amount of air being pumped into the air supply loop per time.

 

Since the supply line won't contain many times the amount of air as the main atmos air tank -- And the supply to some departments can be separated more easily -- I can look at adding other mechanics like pipe leaking / bursting in future without it being as punishing.

Probably going to add more maintenance atmos rooms when I find the space on the map to do so.

Feedback from Engineers in the next rounds would be appreciated. Thank you!

I have a mixed opinion of these changes, now having played them.

For starters, I don't think this has mitigated the "max out and forget" style of atmospherics. Because the volume on the network has been reduced, and because it starts at 2000 kPa, it's easier than ever to just put in a volume pump and blast it out at high as possible. I'm not too bothered by this personally, because max and forget has always been my mode of operation, but it's not what everyone does. I think the air that starts in distro can just be modulated in the future, as atmospherics changes.

I like seeing the new atmospheric substations, but they could use an additional pump so that way they can push and pull air into or out of the networks they feed into. It would give engineers the ability to control or modulate the networks more efficiently. 

The point that's most contentious right now is the pressure cap on all of our devices, at about 5066 kPa. This is not a problem if we're looking at something like distro, but it's a massive issue for high pressure systems like ship thrusters and the Super-matter. They are bottlenecking hard on us.

This is primarily an issue with the Super-matter, since waste extraction, coolant insertion, and cycling the cold loop all depend heavily on pumps, and the operating pressures and thresholds of a 2-2 40 shot hydrogen engine have the capacity to exceed 5066 kPa. We had a delamination one round, and we ended up having to vent the core just to be able to put in emergency gas. The typical cure for an overenergized engine is to feed in more coolant to match the pace of it's heat/waste gas generation, and we could not physically load it in because the pressure in the lines exceeded the maximum output on the pumps.

As for thrusters, the ones on the shuttles usually bottom out quickly, because of the pump limits. The ones on the ship are much the same, and you're better off throwing away the high-cap/pressure reg combo leading out of the burn chamber, and replacing it with solid pipe or manual valves. This isn't crippling to the operation of our thrusters, just annoying.

 

I'll say overall, life support systems are looking good and just need little adjustments here and there, but things like engine and propulsion are either more annoying to work with, or have become more of a liability to run than a benefit. Especially since people can now just put in a few extra minutes on the tesla and have it rip out over 10 mW of energy.

 

[VisVirific]

Hello! After several weeks, I've finally thought about a good compromise to get the Restricted Chemical Storage back in the pharmacy. The simplest solution I could come up with

Just shuffle the Paper Bin + Pen + Screwdriver onto the table with the buttons or above the grenade casing box, push the grinder + phoron to the side and put in the restricted storage there

[Myazaki]

6 hours ago, Boggle08 said:

*snip*

Thanks for the feedback. I'm looking at returning the high-pressure systems to their original state without it interfering with a nerfed air supply.

[ImmortalRedshirt]

So, it looks like piloting got updated and...these changes might not be for the better, as represented by this picture.

• First off, this partial movement(where ships move a pixel at a time instead of a grid, similar to how servers like NSV work, though with much less direct control) may have unintentionally broken how the ship moves. Maneuvers that could be completed fairly quickly at the speed displayed now take a considerable amount of time(7 tiles in over half an hour). As jobs like mining require us to be at a certain spot quickly enough in order to provide what several jobs need, this is a serious issue when it comes to the gameplay of several jobs, to say nothing about how it affects EVA activity for so long.
• The other point is the sensors. Before, you could get a pretty good visual on the area, but now turning the range up to anything beyond 2 causes heat to buildup, turning navigation into a chore

In short, where piloting was rudimentary before, it's even more unengaging now and has a negative impact on more than just the people who fly this ship.

[Myazaki]

3 hours ago, ImmortalRedshirt said:

*snip*

Horizon maneuvers are slow right now due to a couple of things:

- Pipe tweaks have resulted in less flow to the engines (will be resolved by next time the map is up).

- There's a bug related to a UI for the propulsion reaction chamber control computers that means they can't be used right now (will be fixed shortly).

So thrust should be a few times higher than it currently is.

[ImmortalRedshirt]

Point about the sensors still stands, but thanks for the heads up!

[Myazaki]

2 minutes ago, ImmortalRedshirt said:

Point about the sensors still stands, but thanks for the heads up!

I've got something in the works for sensors. Thanks for the feedback.

[WickedCybs]

On 20/02/2022 at 19:40, Myazaki said:

I've got something in the works for sensors. Thanks for the feedback.

The sensors don't overheat at level three do slightly raise in temperature at level three now, but it's not very significant and have a fairly generous range at the moment. I'd hope any changes don't make the range too high as there's actual reason now to have someone manning the sensors instead of being able to easily handle everything alone. Navigation is great to incentivize being a team effort (the sensors console even has a greater view of the area vs the helm console) and temporary increases of the sensor range still gives enough time to note down important locations and hazards.

Unrelated to that, I like the new atmos substations.

Edited March 1, 2022 by WickedCybs
sensors do warm up now at level 3

[Wewai]

Medical could need a shredder for paperwork.

And the ORs feel a bit dark, in my opinion.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Wewai

[Boggle08]

Public garden needs tools, and a water source.

The bridge cockpit area needs a request console and a intercom. When the bridge is at maximum command capacity, there's no where for the XO to sit, which is annoying.

[ClemTheDuck]

Would be nice for the new third party ships to get like long range holopads to hail the horizon. seems kinda awkward to just rock up and dock without a word

 

 

[Sparky_hotdog]

The bridge could do with a regular holopad as well. It could go anywhere really, but as is you have to wander pretty far if you want to use one to link anywhere else on the Horizon. They aren't used loads, but I've seen a few instances where it's come up.

[Gem]

add publically available soap to the showers please.

[Forester40]

I think there should be flash-proof sunglasses on the map somewhere, like in the abandoned firing range on the last map, so station antags can counter flashbangs eaiser.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Forester40

[MattAtlas]

On 06/03/2022 at 06:29, Boggle08 said:

Public garden needs tools, and a water source.

The bridge cockpit area needs a request console and a intercom. When the bridge is at maximum command capacity, there's no where for the XO to sit, which is annoying.

Added tools. Water source already present, sink on the right.

Request console and intercom are already at the top. I don't know how to fit more tbh.

7 hours ago, Forester40 said:

I think there should be flash-proof sunglasses on the map somewhere, like in the abandoned firing range on the last map, so station antags can counter flashbangs eaiser.

Added to d2 maint.

On 06/03/2022 at 18:07, Gem said:

add publically available soap to the showers please.

Done.

On 06/03/2022 at 13:34, Sparky_hotdog said:

The bridge could do with a regular holopad as well. It could go anywhere really, but as is you have to wander pretty far if you want to use one to link anywhere else on the Horizon. They aren't used loads, but I've seen a few instances where it's come up.

There is one at the top of the bridge proper and one more in the break room. Do we need more?

On 01/03/2022 at 18:18, Wewai said:

Medical could need a shredder for paperwork.

And the ORs feel a bit dark, in my opinion.

Added a shredder in the little office next to the ORs.

[Myazaki]

46 minutes ago, MattAtlas said:

There is one at the top of the bridge proper and one more in the break room. Do we need more?

I added this following their feedback.

[SierraKomodo]

- Chemistry lab is missing the secure chemicals fridge

- The chemistry lab should definitely have a filing cabinet for paperwork use. Bureaucracy is the finer point of Aurora RP

[Diggey]

The Empty office above the Chapel is of course there for merchants or Assistant Gimmicks or Traitor gimmicks to set up here.

But

It is right above the chapel.

This would be a perfect spot to put the Service Manager's Office, which currently has literally nowhere to go despite having access to the entire ship.-

Would give the SM closeness to the OM and be thematically appropriate because most of their department is in the southern part of the ship

It also would put their office disconnected from the Bridge while still beeing on the same level as the bridge and would put people starting as Assistant in the lounge area something to look at

[MattAtlas]

On 17/03/2022 at 02:38, Diggey said:

The Empty office above the Chapel is of course there for merchants or Assistant Gimmicks or Traitor gimmicks to set up here.

But

It is right above the chapel.

This would be a perfect spot to put the Service Manager's Office, which currently has literally nowhere to go despite having access to the entire ship.-

Would give the SM closeness to the OM and be thematically appropriate because most of their department is in the southern part of the ship

It also would put their office disconnected from the Bridge while still beeing on the same level as the bridge and would put people starting as Assistant in the lounge area something to look at

Won't happen, since Service Manager has been removed.

[FlamingLily]

The removal of the service manager is a huge mistake, in my eyes, the only explanations given were "It added nothing" (It's an RP role by that logic neither does Psych) or "It got abused by the players" (Just moderate it properly?).

The service manager filled the role that the QM does now, a non-whitelisted, middle management position. And seeing as QM no longer functionally exists, as it's replacement is also whitelisted, that leaves anyone wanting to play a QM type role and not whitelisted out of luck. It also leaves existing QM characters to be either: Demoted where it doesn't make sense, retired, or promoted/Keep their position, which is only an option for whitelisted players. Whereas the SM and QM skillsets are fairly similar, and characters could easily transfer over.

On a similar but different note, this absolutely screws over any characters made as SMs. "Why make a character for a testing role?" Because they wanted to test the role. And now, because the tests were explicitly canon, the players have nothing to do but retcon their characters or retire them outright, neither of which are any fun for the players.

Re-add the service manager.

[KingOfThePing]

1 hour ago, FlamingLily said:

The removal of the service manager is a huge mistake, in my eyes, the only explanations given were "It added nothing" (It's an RP role by that logic neither does Psych) or "It got abused by the players" (Just moderate it properly?).

The service manager filled the role that the QM does now, a non-whitelisted, middle management position. And seeing as QM no longer functionally exists, as it's replacement is also whitelisted, that leaves anyone wanting to play a QM type role and not whitelisted out of luck. It also leaves existing QM characters to be either: Demoted where it doesn't make sense, retired, or promoted/Keep their position, which is only an option for whitelisted players. Whereas the SM and QM skillsets are fairly similar, and characters could easily transfer over.

On a similar but different note, this absolutely screws over any characters made as SMs. "Why make a character for a testing role?" Because they wanted to test the role. And now, because the tests were explicitly canon, the players have nothing to do but retcon their characters or retire them outright, neither of which are any fun for the players.

Re-add the service manager.

"Sorry but the suggested, experimental position of Service Manager has proven to be unviable, as per out internal review. It will be cut without replacement. Thank you for your interest. Your existing work and transfer contract to the Horizon project is unaffected by this."

Edited March 20, 2022 by KingOfThePing