Make ERT calls silent to in-game players.

[Guest]

See title. I'm kind of sick of the whole meta where ERT gets called, it arrives right at the point where all of the big things have already happened or the antags simply pussify and fuck off because they don't want to fight the ERT.

In addition, I think we need to remove the whole "ERT has been called and received" thing, since it doesn't make sense that the equivalent of an emergency relief/strike team blended together would announce and broadcast their presence so loudly. Especially since the antagonists can hear it and immediately duck and cover, removing themselves from the round entirely. Only ghosts and lobby folk should be able to hear the call and opt to join in, simply.

[Commissar_Drew]

I like the idea, 1138.

Perhaps, in addition to this change, have a message sent to heads of staff that an ERT is en route? This would lessen the amount of "ERT called > Immediately call shuttle" that I feel may occur if there is no confirmation that the call was received. The confirmation could be fax, requests console, or a PM a la the emergency message CentComm response.

[witchbells]

Agreed. Frankly, I think it makes more sense, what with a high security station having a silent alarm rather than loudly announcing to hostiles that reinforcements are coming.

[Killerhurtz]

This, this, so much this. For two reasons.

One, the aforementioned antags skedaddling when it leaves.

Two? The disappointment when, in deadhour games, an ERT is called and everyone thinks they're saved... but nobody came.

(I'd also add the option to fax the ERT department, because apparently ERT and Odin are two things and the DO's are quick to remind us of it, and sometimes sweeping two IDs is just not possible/reasonable, and there's sometimes ERT needs to be called for a non-dangerous emergency like a meteor storm fucking everything up or a virus making work difficult, but that's another suggestion)

[Guest]

I like the idea, 1138.

Perhaps, in addition to this change, have a message sent to heads of staff that an ERT is en route? This would lessen the amount of "ERT called > Immediately call shuttle" that I feel may occur if there is no confirmation that the call was received. The confirmation could be fax, requests console, or a PM a la the emergency message CentComm response.

 

ERT should also endeavor to maintain radio silence until they get on-station. That way they never lose the element of surprise even if they come.

[Dreviore]

This, this, so much this. For two reasons.

One, the aforementioned antags skedaddling when it leaves.

Two? The disappointment when, in deadhour games, an ERT is called and everyone thinks they're saved... but nobody came.

(I'd also add the option to fax the ERT department, because apparently ERT and Odin are two things and the DO's are quick to remind us of it, and sometimes sweeping two IDs is just not possible/reasonable, and there's sometimes ERT needs to be called for a non-dangerous emergency like a meteor storm fucking everything up or a virus making work difficult, but that's another suggestion)

 

I'm a graveyard shift IAA and I often run into the issue where there are no heads, and I'm often ready to fax for an ERT if I feel the security forces can't handle a situation, or the engineering department is dealing with too much.

In the event of there being no heads I always try to pick someone from each department to be my go-to contact to call the shots in extreme situations, and if a security officer decides "we can't handle this" I'll quickly run to my office or the bridge to send a fax.

I tried one round but the heisters barged into the meeting room and took me prisoner. After murdering half the crew.

[Dreviore]

I like the idea, 1138.

Perhaps, in addition to this change, have a message sent to heads of staff that an ERT is en route? This would lessen the amount of "ERT called > Immediately call shuttle" that I feel may occur if there is no confirmation that the call was received. The confirmation could be fax, requests console, or a PM a la the emergency message CentComm response.

 

ERT should also endeavor to maintain radio silence until they get on-station. That way they never lose the element of surprise even if they come.

 

ERTs should maintain radio silence on all channels except Command. They need to ask what the situation is, and equip themselves accordingly. An ERT officer should not be grabbing all their guns for an engineering misshap. As an ERT you have to keep the round interesting for everyone including antagonists and not overly equip for an uncomfirmable sabotage.

Like I was an ERT on a later shift and the situation was that the engineers had a misshap. And Xander gave me a lot of shit in death chat for not coming with big guns. I came with a stun revolver, and engineering equipment to help seal off the damaged areas (mainly engineering) and setup solars to give the station enough power to maybe recover. When it was deemed sabotage it was too late into the round, and a shuttle was called to get the surviving crew out of there.

[Garnascus]

Noooo.

Fighting any decent ERT is almost impossible. When an antag gets the notice of them coming they know they need to either GTFO or blend in real quick. ERT is already a salty horde of validhunting ghosts. Im not keen on forcing antags to deal with them and die for lack of info.

[Guest Menown]

Noooo.

Fighting any decent ERT is almost impossible. When an antag gets the notice of them coming they know they need to either GTFO or blend in real quick. ERT is already a salty horde of validhunting ghosts. Im not keen on forcing antags to deal with them and die for lack of info.

 

>Heist team crashed Security's plane without any survivors

>Heads call ERT

>"I'm not keen on forcing antags to deal with them and die for lack of info"

By that logic, why is it okay for everybody else to deal with antags with a lack of info? Nobody has any IC info about cultists, wizards, or changelings, so why is it okay for them to have the info advantage yet it isn't for anybody else?

[Dreviore]

Noooo.

Fighting any decent ERT is almost impossible. When an antag gets the notice of them coming they know they need to either GTFO or blend in real quick. ERT is already a salty horde of validhunting ghosts. Im not keen on forcing antags to deal with them and die for lack of info.

 

Maybe a way so it's more fair is to send a fax to all the fax machines about it. So if the Antags hold important ground (say the bridge) they're at least alerted that they dun goofed.

[Garnascus]

That is a horrible argument and you know better meowy. Antags are there to create the story, they are the main characters essentially. ERT are called with the SOLE and SINGULAR goal to hunt down and kill the antags. The OP has a serious problem in its premise. You don't like when antags fuck off when they see ERT get called.

There's a very good reason antags do this. It brings their antagging to a huge halt because its near impossible to resist ERT even with numbers advantage. Its not fun and if ERT get called they have done quite a bit already so they leave to stay alive.

The problem is much better served focusing on the real issue, ERT is crazy strong and fighting/resisting them is a pointless and unfun waste of time.

[Guest]

ERT are called with the SOLE and SINGULAR goal to hunt down and kill the antags.

 

not true at all, lol. They can be called for a multitude of reasons, I've seen primarily engineering ERTs and medical ones get called to support unmanned or unorganized departments.

Maybe antags should stop murderboning people in plain view of everyone where command can see them and immediately discern that the situation is being thrown out of their control? ERT would get called less if we had less antagonists purposefully throwing away their own element of secrecy in favor of nonexistant murdervalid greentext.

ERT get deployed purposefully to curbstomp such moronic crap. We should not cater to that mindset that this is an antag hugbox where their experience should be catered to over the practical and dare I say it, realistic, majority.

The experience of the many matters more than the "needs" of the few. Isn't the game better off when it's less predictable? And perhaps, immersive, that way? Makes people want to play more.

[Garnascus]

Antags only cause an ERT when they murderbone? Lolno ERT get called to curbstomp the antags that killed them in the round. Getting called for engineering/medical reasons happen, I miss spoke. I don't know how you managed to bring up group happiness over singular enjoyment but....

If ERT get called to deal with an antag its almost always a salty bunch of deadchat warriors eager to get revenge. You basically want it easier for them to get it which is not something I will ever cater to. If antags murderboning and not breaking any server rules well....thems the breaks.

[Guest]

Like I was an ERT on a later shift and the situation was that the engineers had a misshap. And Xander gave me a lot of shit in death chat for not coming with big guns. I came with a stun revolver, and engineering equipment to help seal off the damaged areas (mainly engineering)

 

Thiiiiis never happened? What character said this, considering you don't seem to know any of my characters from the Evelyn Fermi RD situation (kek) . If you've ever met me, I generally give ERT players that are Engineering and Medical a lot of shit WHEN they bring heavy weapons, because Medical ERT and Enginering ERT should only have general self-defense weapons, unless the situation is extremely hostile and they know this. I've only been ERT in the last two months, and have only been there for three.

[Guest]

Antags only cause an ERT when they murderbone? Lolno ERT get called to curbstomp the antags that killed them in the round. Getting called for engineering/medical reasons happen, I miss spoke. I don't know how you managed to bring up group happiness over singular enjoyment but....

If ERT get called to deal with an antag its almost always a salty bunch of deadchat warriors eager to get revenge. You basically want it easier for them to get it which is not something I will ever cater to. If antags murderboning and not breaking any server rules well....thems the breaks.

 

Antags overescalate and force the hand of command to call for backup, pretty much. It's no different than a security officer calling for almost the entire force to respond to their location in regards to a cultrevvampirethrall mob and bring riot gear to fight them off, except with ERT it's when security has failed to maintain a foothold with their equipment and skills, so the command staff calls up the next best thing. Highly trained, well-equipped and merciless operators. It's way worse for any sort of disorganized antag team because the ERT is more often than not very well coordinated and they constantly stick together, mob up and wipe the floor with their opposition. That's sort of the point.

It's very easy, and I don't even mean this from my point of view, it's pretty much guaranteed for a single antagonist to mop up the entire security force by themselves on the basis of how antagonists are not only balanced, but how they are coddled in the sense of the rules.

I've always been an advocate of keeping things just and fair in-game and responding to things with equivalent or slightly more force in order to stop someone from committing wrongdoing. I try to be nice and patient at first, but when shit hits the fan there is little time for pleasantries to be dispensed.

And besides, do you not wonder why this is often the case? Deadchat gets filled, naturally, with the people who died in the round. More notably, when they get utterly decimated in droves by the loud, proud antagonists who dindu nuffin to deserve Z8 Bulldogs up their asses, of course.

Keep in mind, if the secret round just rolled extended, no ERT would ever be called to quell murderboning antagonists. Security would just have to deal with smaller isolated instances of tiding or IC crimes, if and when the latter actually happens. I have actually seen rounds where the antagonists have executed their plans more efficiently, with the same amount of end-result death and turmoil, except they remained totally unidentified until the tail end of the round. The difference between incident A and incident B is the timing and escalation of the evil-doing. Antagonists that moderate themselves and try to pick off people one by one and try to give their victims a bit of importance in the antag's end-goal when they die are often the most interesting ones.

ERT isn't called because the antagonists deserve a challenge, it's called because the antagonists have blatantly thrown the station into disarray within a very short period of time, with a sudden nonsensical and impractical escalation to it. Hippiestation suffers from this problem, too, but the community at large there would actually take it upon themselves to try and fight off a fucking deathsquad, because wouldn't that be a fucking fun attempt?

Meanwhile, over here, antagonists are limpdicked and have their thumbs embedded so far up their anuses, it's a wonder the station even gets into the state it does half of the time. It's almost like the antagonists play to win and then duck out when they lose their 7-round 60 brute revolver advantage and are too lazy to rearm.

[Dreviore]

Like I was an ERT on a later shift and the situation was that the engineers had a misshap. And Xander gave me a lot of shit in death chat for not coming with big guns. I came with a stun revolver, and engineering equipment to help seal off the damaged areas (mainly engineering)

 

Thiiiiis never happened? What character said this, considering you don't seem to know any of my characters from the Evelyn Fermi RD situation (kek) . If you've ever met me, I generally give ERT players that are Engineering and Medical a lot of shit WHEN they bring heavy weapons, because Medical ERT and Enginering ERT should only have general self-defense weapons, unless the situation is extremely hostile and they know this. I've only been ERT in the last two months, and have only been there for three.

 

I was told by staff that Ana was your character.

I don't have time to actively follow the face behind characters, as I work a full time job, go to school, and have to have time for myself.

[CampinKiller]

Like I was an ERT on a later shift and the situation was that the engineers had a misshap. And Xander gave me a lot of shit in death chat for not coming with big guns. I came with a stun revolver, and engineering equipment to help seal off the damaged areas (mainly engineering)

 

Thiiiiis never happened? What character said this, considering you don't seem to know any of my characters from the Evelyn Fermi RD situation (kek) . If you've ever met me, I generally give ERT players that are Engineering and Medical a lot of shit WHEN they bring heavy weapons, because Medical ERT and Enginering ERT should only have general self-defense weapons, unless the situation is extremely hostile and they know this. I've only been ERT in the last two months, and have only been there for three.

 

I was told by staff that Ana was your character.

I don't have time to actively follow the face behind characters, as I work a full time job, go to school, and have to have time for myself.

 

No, that was SueTheCake who was getting on to you about not taking weapons as ERT.

[TrickingTrapster]

Guys, I think we're getting a liiiittle off-track here. From an IC standpoint, ERT is a perfectly viable solution in a code red situation with hostiles involved- Usually when half(read: all) of security is dead, or security was understaffed to begin with(Damn you, deadhour). If the antagonists have gone as far to get the heads of staff to go into code red, they have either screwed up or completed their objectives(I think, I don't antag myself). If they actually did a bit of roleplay with their antagging, and killed people after taking them to maintenance, roleplaying out tying them to a chair and then killing them with something, while the other player can roleplay back, I think the "deadchat warriors seeking vengeance" would drop substantially. So from my viewpoint, the problem is with the antagonists, not the ERT. They get the tools to do their job silently; If they do not use them that way, it is not the ERT's fault they get called in the first place.

[Conservatron]

I like the idea, 1138.

Perhaps, in addition to this change, have a message sent to heads of staff that an ERT is en route? This would lessen the amount of "ERT called > Immediately call shuttle" that I feel may occur if there is no confirmation that the call was received. The confirmation could be fax, requests console, or a PM a la the emergency message CentComm response.

PDA message to heads of staff, maybe to IAA, and to AI

allows for antags to prepare if they have seized a pda (but they have to actively monitor the device) and if messenger service is disabled, well, idk then.

maybe have a dedicated response to the AI so the message will always get out or a fax back to station

[Susan]

'impossible to fight ert'

One EMP. RIGs dead. Guns dead.

Now you're just fighting sec with the same guns they can get any other round.

I mean come on. Counter play isn't hard.

[Nanako]

or security was understaffed to begin with(Damn you, deadhour).

I can say i've rarely seen this. Even in dead hour, security is the only department that seems to always have at least six staff. Everyone loves security.

Poor engineering though

Also i want to say, the ERTs are VERY far from undefeatable. Even without EMPs many of us did watch that cult game a couple weeks ago where the ERTs killed only demons, attempted to take two prisoners, flashed each other, split up, and got cut down. but honestly their guns weren't doing that much to the innumerable enemy anyway.

I like it the way it is, i don't think it needs to be silent. They're not invincible, and the announcement of the ERT can cause antagonists to get a move on with things.

Maybe give the captain a special option to call a silent ERT in certain situations, but i think the current, globally announced, should remain the norm.

[Carver]

'impossible to fight ert'

One EMP. RIGs dead. Guns dead.

Now you're just fighting sec with the same guns they can get any other round.

I mean come on. Counter play isn't hard.

Any ERT worth his weight brings an SMG. Otherwise yes, fighting ERT isn't that bad. But a smart antagonist will generally follow the rule of "Don't fight unless you're cornered".

[EvilBrage]

Loudly announcing that you're sending in the cavalry is actually a sound tactic to reduce further damage to the station and get the assaulting force to - as we've described it - "fuck off." I don't see anything wrong with the way things work as-is. The goal of the ERT is not to hunt down antagonists, it's to ensure the safety of the crew and the station (though maybe not necessarily in that order) so if an antag runs away when the ERT gets there, who cares? I'll tell you what will happen if this becomes a thing, though: every time a head says "let's call for an ERT," despite whether or not one was called for, you're going to get blitzkrieged by the antags in an attempt to stop them from being called, and they will be completely justified in doing so. It's a lose-lose scenario. Nobody's experience is enriched or enhanced whatsoever.

[SierraKomodo]

I'm going to mention that calling in stealth ERT is a thing when command staff have sent faxxess requesting a stealth ERT; Admins have gone with that before. I'm not sure if newcode supports it or not, but it happened several times on oldcode.

[Dreviore]

Loudly announcing that you're sending in the cavalry is actually a sound tactic to reduce further damage to the station and get the assaulting force to - as we've described it - "fuck off." I don't see anything wrong with the way things work as-is. The goal of the ERT is not to hunt down antagonists, it's to ensure the safety of the crew and the station (though maybe not necessarily in that order) so if an antag runs away when the ERT gets there, who cares? I'll tell you what will happen if this becomes a thing, though: every time a head says "let's call for an ERT," despite whether or not one was called for, you're going to get blitzkrieged by the antags in an attempt to stop them from being called, and they will be completely justified in doing so. It's a lose-lose scenario. Nobody's experience is enriched or enhanced whatsoever.

 

From this perspective you've flipped my vote.

I kinda feel that keeping it loud is a good thing. Encourages antagonists to play stealth, or wrap up their shit, or even attempt to fight the ERT.

I imagine cultists waiting at arrivals for the ERT to arrive acting as distressed crew, slapping their talisman and going to town.