Nerf Lung Damage

[JKJudgeX]

Whether from being shot or depressurized, or equipping an O2 tank with the pressure set low, I would like to see lung damage not such a shift-ending nightmare. I'd honestly be fine if it were removed completely from the game, but I know that will never happen.

It's just too easy to get and too serious of a problem that takes way too long to fix. Please reduce it greatly or make it much, much less likely to happen.

[HunterRS]

Have you ever seen someone with a ruptured lung? 75% of the time in our day of medicine they don't live. So you better be happy you have peridoxen to fix it.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I don't know who's manning medbay when you get lung damage, but for me it's the easiest surgery right above fixing a broken bone in one of the limbs. You can even get medicine to fix it without needing any surgery; and taking dexalin can increase your survival time by a bit.

We're in space. Depressurization is the main threat we face. If you know you're about to lose air pressure then you put on internals.

Seems fine to me.

[JKJudgeX]

1) It's not that lung damage isn't actually deadly, it's that it happens way, way too easily on this codebase. I'm pretty sure it's bugged sometimes and gives you lung damage when it really shouldn't have based on atmosphere. On other codebases, it is not nearly this often, you have to get caught in a vacuum for a good little while, but here it's like "ah, there were 0 atmos for .01 seconds, your lung's popped". I got my lung popped a couple of days ago by putting on an oxygen tank set to 0 output pressure (which set ITSELF to 0 after I refilled it for reasons unbeknownst). If you're making a realism argument then both the .45 and the .357 would need to be about 10 times more lethal, and getting stabbed in the face with a kitchen knife should kill you in 3 or 4 stabs instead of the 20 that it takes.

It's just not fun, and it contributes to overloading medbay when medbay already has a low pop most of the time. Further, this didn't used to be such a big problem.

2) There actually usually is *not* peridaxon available because there's only a chemist half the time, and even then, good luck.

3) There's also quite frequently not a surgeon.

4) I'm usually an antagonist, so, getting peridaxon/surgery are especially unlikely, and once you have the lung damage it's pretty much a lingering death sentence.

Can't it just take a little while longer to burst a lung, or do less damage per tick? We had a really good Merc round going last night, with hostages and lots of action, and I ended up dying because I got disconnected with lung damage (I had stolen all of the medkits on the science outpost and was keeping myself alive with the meds, but passed out after a disconnection and couldn't get back up even long enough to inject myself or take another dexalin pill). Lung damage just jumps in and sucks the fun out of most situations and didn't really help any RP happen.

[JKJudgeX]

I'll go ahead and throw in that synthetics and some other races don't have to deal with this at all, and I play human all the time, so that's part of why I'm complaining. If you're just a regular crewmember or someone in science or medbay where help is like 2 rooms away, or you always have a hardsuit because you're an engineer, yeah, but that's not the subset of characters that I play... so... that's something to think about while considering.

This could even be helped with a map change by throwing in some peridaxon in some of the oxygen deprivation kits.

I don't think you should get lung damage if you aren't also getting the kPa pressure warning. But I'm almost sure you do. Your lungs don't collapse from simply trying to breathe when there is no oxygen, and if you are in a depressurized area, you would definitely know.

[icy_dew]

so you're saying that this is a problem because it doesn't fit your playstyle?

[Guest Complete Garbage]

I believe the only change that needs to be made to lung damage is this: make it take a good 3-5 seconds without pressure before you get a rupture. That way, the O2 damage is noticeable well before you get vacuum-cucked, and death is avoiadable. It used to work like this, iirc, and that worked out pretty well.

[Scheveningen]

The key to avoiding lung ruptures is being prepared where it counts and not being immensely stupid in responding to firelocks shutting.

You will never suffer a lung rupture unless you are standing in an actual vacuum for more than three seconds, more than ample enough time to put on internals before it happens.

[UnknownMurder]

I know people will try to brave the lung damage and continue whatever while putting their life on the line to risk to accomplish their goal. I would say neither nerf or a buff is needed.

[Dreviore]

I know people will try to brave the lung damage and continue whatever while putting their life on the line to risk to accomplish their goal. I would say neither nerf or a buff is needed.

 

I do it to save someone from popped lungs.

Which ironically happens all the time.

Your O2 tank runs out of oxygen for half a second? Popped lung.

You accidentally find yourself walking into a depressurized room, and you wind up winded on the ground for 5 seconds? Popped lung.

[Scheveningen]

 

This is all you need to stabilize anyone with a popped lung or anyone in critical condition.

[JKJudgeX]

Okay, seems like you guys like the lung damage.

I gotta say, it's the most fun I've had in a video game so far, too. I dunno what I was thinking.

Trying to breathe out of an empty or low pressure tank should not give you lung damage - factually. There should be no way to get lung damage in a space suit, but, that happens, too.

TG and other codebases do not have these issues, it's night and day.

And I'll close by saying that if you live in medbay, play an IPC, Borg, or other lungless wonder more often than other stuff, you've got zero business commenting because you don't have much experience with this.

I guess I could just play as an IPC for "RP" reasons and play it like most of the IPCs that I see play, which is pretty much exactly like a normal person with a bunch of meta-benefits, but, I prefer playing human, so, I'll deal with fun lung damage, whatever .

[Scheveningen]

I've not had an issue with lung ruptures since I died to it the first few times. I rarely play synthetics for the express purpose of not having to breathe.

If I ever get a lung rupture it's mostly due to being shot or stabbed by antagonists and not sitting like a duck in a thin or non-existent atmosphere.

Anyone else I've had to perform surgery on, they sat in a breached environment without a suit themselves. Very rarely do I ever have to take off the voidsuit of someone who comes in for a lung rupture. Oxygen deprivation is able to be countered and also preventable altogether. Two years of playing has personally taught me to avoid haplessly wandering into dangerous situations and putting my game knowledge to avoid dying.

If you know what you're doing and how to properly prepare for such situations, lung ruptures won't happen.

[JKJudgeX]

Yeah man, I've only played SS13 since like 2012 and I "don't know what I'm doing". Do you think I'm like stripping off my hardsuit and running into vented rooms frequently? Or spacewalking naked?

I have no problem with lung ruptures due to being shot or stabbed.

I never "sit like a duck".

Anyway, I've spoken my piece.

The lung damage system is retarded on this codebase, for like 5 clearly stated and logical reasons, period.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

You will never suffer a lung rupture unless you are standing in an actual vacuum for more than three seconds

This is incorrect. Ruptures can happen pretty much instantly now. Not sure if it was baymerge or some other update, but recently, I've seen ruptures occur in timespans of as little as half a second of vacuum exposure.

I find the insta-rupture thing to be shitty, and I much prefer the old 3-ish seconds of exposure we used to have before getting a ruptured lung.

[Scheveningen]

Yeah man, I've only played SS13 since like 2012 and I "don't know what I'm doing". Do you think I'm like stripping off my hardsuit and running into vented rooms frequently? Or spacewalking naked?

 

Yes, I think you actually do. Maybe you should just get good and consider improving off of what isn't working in your playstyle rather than demanding things change to suit you.

It's honestly not that bad. Currently Bay has actually made it more lethal than it is now for aurora to be stuck in a vacuum with no hardsuit or internals. They get on just fine.

Being stuck in a vacuum ain't meant to be a trivial thing you can just walk out of unscathed.

[Nikov]

I've got a lot of experience with the current and prior lung damage mechanics, and lung damage really needs to not onset IMMEDIATELY after being exposed to sub-20kpa air. You can misconfigure your emergency tank and break your lung. Its silly.

A NASA technician in a vacuum chamber yada yada... needed mouth to mouth and then he was fine. No lung collapse for being at these dangerous low pressures, just a lack of air knocking him out.

No pressure inside the station should be about as deadly as being in a flooded compartment of a ship; you can't breathe, but if you're hauled out and given CPR, you probably don't need a hospital. I've found no documentation stating lungs would collapse the way they do in SS13. Its in the human body's lung design to go from slightly above to well below atmospheric pressure as a function of breathing. We're a space suit for a fish.

If nothing else; let dexalin stabilize lung damage, or add a new medical device, one of those needle-vent-things? In blue first-aid kits to stabilize a busted lung.

[Scheveningen]

If nothing else; let dexalin stabilize lung damage, or add a new medical device, one of those needle-vent-things? In blue first-aid kits to stabilize a busted lung.

 

Dexalin itself and dexalin plus already do this. They offset oxygen deprivation from climbing completely, and in the case of dexalin plus, you can inject it into a cigar and walk in space for awhile after lighting it.

Cigars last like 20 minutes, actually, so that's how long you can walk in space. Provided you have pressure resistance.

[icy_dew]

so, instead of actually fixing near immediately having your lungs popped in a vacuum, we should all just inject dexalin plus into our cigars incase we get vented?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

A hard timer of 2 seconds passing before there's a chance to pop a lung should deal with these issues. If it's doing it so quickly, even from misconfiguring an internals mask, then clearly something is actually wrong. Torn lungs should be a consequence of depressurization or lingering in a vented area or in space.

I suppose I don't experience ruptured lungs much because my characters are prepared for a venting, most of the time, since outside spontanious bombings there's usually enough warning time to put on a mask.

[Arrow768]

In our case a Pneumothorax is caused by sudden pressure changes.

If there is a sudden pressure change, there is a very good chance, that the lung will rupture and the air from the lung expands into the pleural cavity which will cause the lung to collapse.

What should be done is making sure that a you do not get a pressure change from soft or graduate pressure changes (i.e. internals run out, forget to turn on internals when in a space suit, trying to breath out of a empty O2 bottle)

Other than that the current implementation is fine.

[Farya]

Even here its ridiculously easy to get full emergency air tank and keep it in your pocket or on your belt ready. While keeping mask in other readily accessible pocket while engineers always have gasmasks on their hazard vests. So if you are prepared you dont need to afraid venting much.

If lung rupture is instant it's a problem because you need a chance to take on mask from your box.

[JKJudgeX]

I'm glad some sensible people replied with something other than "get good" in addressing this annoyance.

I've had my lungs ruptured a lot of times on this codebase, and I'm not complaining about the times that obviously make sense (teleported into space, dragged into a breached room by antag, shot in the lungs, etc). Reading comprehension is cool. I made it very obvious that those are not the things I'm talking about.

I'm pretty sure that in this codebase, using a straw to try and drink out of an empty bottle would blow out your lungs.

[JKJudgeX]

I just did a quick test. Your lungs literally burst from just running out of air in a space suit.

That's not what should happen. That should just be plain old suffocation, no permanent lung damage required. This test was done in the library, which had plenty of air. There was no sudden change in pressure, I just ran out an emergency air tank in the suit.

I think fixing that issue would go a long way to making the lung damage reasonable.

From the first message of "You feel a stabbing pain in your chest!" (after 2 gasps... so, try to breathe where there isn't air twice, and then *pop* lung)...

To being in crit from the untreated lung damage was about 7-8 in-game minutes.

That's pretty damned lethal for running out of air and then immediately fixing the situation as soon as the stabbing pain hit, IMO. The lung should have never popped to begin with, obviously, but, there was no bad pressure situation at all and I was able to put myself in a near death situation just by running out of air for like 15 seconds.

Go try it yourself.

[Dreamix]

(...) From the first message of "You feel a stabbing pain in your chest!" (after 2 gasps... so, try to breathe where there isn't air twice, and then *pop* lung)... To being in crit from the untreated lung damage was about 7-8 in-game minutes. That's pretty damned lethal for running out of air and then immediately fixing the situation as soon as the stabbing pain hit, IMO. The lung should have never popped to begin with, obviously, but, there was no bad pressure situation at all and I was able to put myself in a near death situation just by running out of air for like 15 seconds. (...)

Well, to be honest, that doesn't sound excessive, at all. It's in your own god damn interest to double-check your air tanks before using them. Tanks even have little indicators to show you if they're full or almost empty.

Breaches are fine. It's just the nature of our setting. Space is dangerous and all that stuff.

 

- Taken on our test server. That's the starting emergency air tank found in everyone's boxes. It's flashing red, so you better fill it with delicious oxygen.