Newmap - refurnish the second OR, up slots back to standard for medical doctors.

[Scheveningen]

Reducing medical's capability in reliably doing surgery by 50% of its normal rate does not enhance medical roleplay, it either leaves people with broken bones hospitalized and not doing anything for longer, and worst-case scenario it gets people killed because they got the shit end of the stick in not being able to be operated upon due to the lack of another OR being properly sanitary and operational. Dexalin plus is only so good at mitigating lung ruptures for as long as it's in moderate supply. And nothing fixes internal bleeding, not even ODing someone on bicaridine is that reliable anymore.

It makes no sense to leave one of only two ORs on the map half-done, bolted and without many of the tools needed to reassemble it to be up to standard to the actually operable one. "It would give engineering something to do" is not a valid excuse considering the rather expansive long list of more important shit-to-do at the beginning of the round for an engineer. Medical funding barely qualifies as remotely close to neglected in the grand scheme of NanoTrasen's priorities, as cloning is extremely expensive. Moreso expensive than surgery. You repaired genetics to be up and running again but you mapped a surgery room to be half done on purpose, Fowl?

And seriously? Two doctors only? It is bad enough that certain psych that acts like an actual medical doctor attempted to hijack actual doctors' job before, now they have even more license to do so. Consider: It is extremely likely to get antagged as a non-security role. You bet that a medical doctor will likely be one of those. Now you're down to perhaps one station-loyal doctor. Now let's also consider the frequency of noob pubs hopping into medical. It was quite high before when there were a fair amount of slots for it. That basically rounds down your chances at its base of 20% that you'll get at least one competent non-antagonist doctor. That is unacceptable.

The new map is HUGE right now. There is an immense amount of space and its size almost rivals the NSV Torch. There needs to be more medical doctor-oriented slots to be able to cover not only the massive scope and range of the station, but also deal with manpower issues and split the difference in work when things stack up in a tense situation. Two docs during a bloody mercenary round will get overwhelmed extremely quickly. The idea is to not tip the balance in favor of having medical ERTs stocking beakers of rezadone, fixing people en masse because they're better equipped than most medical doctors roundstart, alongside their jarheaded security specialists be called anytime something gets out of hand.

[LordFowl]

I am fairly certain you've dropped the ball on your research here, as doctor slots were not touched. I will double check to your benefit, however.

I really fail to see the comparison between genetics and surgery, but I will confidently say that that is indeed a thing I authorized, as is evident.

I remain as opposed to this as I always have the times it is brought up, but it is a fair reminder to observe medical during the testing tomorrow.

[Scheveningen]

It was locked to two slots when I hopped on today, and it was what I was told by itzal as he + garn are the ones who handle the server config file and can adjust it manually.

 

I remain as opposed to this as I always have the times it is brought up, but it is a fair reminder to observe medical during the testing tomorrow.

 

And the least you could do is actually explain why you mapped it that way, because it seems like intentionally bad mapping the way it's cut right now.

I assume there was a better reason than, "Yes, I authorized it fully knowing it cripples medical's surgery capacity until the mid-late game when engineering bothers to refurnish it."

[Skull132]

The two slot thing was either cryo being amazing, people having transferred out, or admins running tests.

Lowering the amount of doctors is a bad meme that should not be listened to, as it will never happen.

[LordFowl]

Then you will be disappointed - the only difference between your provided reasoning and the actual reasoning is that I am not of the opinion that one OR cripples medical, but rather that two ORs is a luxury that is not necessary.

[LordFowl]

As I put it perhaps a fair bit nicer in the last thread ((https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=5711);

Any further concerns can still be brought up in this thread, as our decisions are not final until the map is actually released. However repetition of the same ideas by the same people will not go a long way to convincing us that a second OR is necessary, and unnecessary hostility towards our decision will only alienate us from you.

 

Finally, as it stands, since you have seen fit to revive that thread I heavily encourage you and anyone else interested to read through it and probably the handful of threads that came before it before proceeding, and then creating a convincing and if not polite than at least sterile argument as to why the argument for a second OR has improved or changed compared to the past, if you would like to see this current thread go anywhere but derailment.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Guest

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

As a longterm player of medical, the two OR's were often extremely useful and it was necessary to use both at once. Creating a bottleneck with one OR is harmful to medical. Medical only has two states: Not slammed, and slammed. During most crisis' there is a line to get into surgery.

If it unnecessary, then that room would be remapped into something else. You already gave medical two OR's, but you trashed the room. We either have it or we don't have it.

By cutting it out you make surgery more of a luxury and triage becomes more frustrating. Sitting around with surgery-required wounds is not beneficial to roleplay. Ghetto-surgery will need to be done more often. If there is a surgery that needs to be done but there is already 3 people in line, I would have no choice but to slap the patient on a table anywhere and get to work - probably on the front desk, to educate the interns on surgery practice.

[Scheveningen]

The single body scanner console is extremely decentralized. You have to walk to the other side of the department from either medical entrance, from the main entrance you need to walk approximately three screens over, round about a wall and then walk towards surgery and take a left to a pre-op room, or from the emergency entrance two screens long and downward, round another corner to the left, down, and then left again to an isolated pre-op room. This is an extreme amount of travel time for a room much more isolated from the other subdepartments.

The chemistry room has an immense amount of unnecessary room. The tables aren't occupied with more than a couple items, a dropper can be placed on top of a table with a beaker and still look fine. The refrigerated medicine storage is on average six tiles away from the nearest chem dispenser, and it's positioned directly on top of a wall intersection. It looks extremely weird and the only reason you can get chemicals out of it is because you can interact with it diagonally through the table somehow.

 

 

It looks extremely silly and weird.

Cryogenic coolers are locked behind a windowless maintenance room that people are going to mistake for a closet at first glance the moment they join on the server.

 

 

People are going to overlook this even exists. Cryo is also a major staple of medical operation. It needs to be out there and obvious for people to turn on at the start of the shift and use.

And then there's the temporary morgue (why is there even a temporary morgue) and an autopsy lab, which by design seem nice on paper but in practice it appears ghastly, tiny and cramped, it's hard to even guess there's an autopsy lab anywhere near genetics given how closed off it is.

 

 

Now here's the CMO office. This is on the east-most side of medical, the most infrequented end of medical. The CMO has to walk four screens over from either of the medical entrances and traverse through the least-likely-to-be-walked-through abyss of medical. A head of staff office and its supporting conference room should always be centralized, not completely isolated from the rest of the department. The other head of staff offices also suffer from this.

 

Edited May 21, 2017 by Guest

[LordFowl]

Topic cleaned up. It was wrong of me to engage personally instead of using the tools I was given to enforce the same point, namely that personal attacks and posts that are more sarcasm than point will achieve nothing. Let's keep this post on topic.

[Arrow768]

There is a body scanner console right next to the surgery rooms in the surgery prep room.

There is another body scanner very close to the Entrance

 

[DatBerry]

I see myself agreeing to both sides, on one hand, medical with one OR sucks, i experienced this first hand, the only extra RP i got was getting shoved in a side room alone till the OR was ready, at least patient wise, it was pretty shitty.

on the other hand, the medical department shouldn't be expecting full on fire fights and as many causalities, not frequently anyway. maintaining a whole new OR room would be too expensive for the very very slim chance mass causalities happen, but on the other hand, doesn't mean it should be ignored.

i suggest we add a spare surgery crate in medical round start shoved in storage, when shit hits the fan, you can setup a second, less effective OR with the crate and a rollerbed.

now you may think this is an awful idea, but it reflects a better image of a stressed medical bay, being pushed to their limit.

and roller beds aren't that bad, iirc 75% base chance of succession, compared to 90% for the surgery table, latex gloves add 10% chance to succeed and i believe so do the face masks, which means 85%+ success chance for each step. much more acceptable than a regular table's base 50%, not perfect but gets the job done.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

Basically I agree with what DB said. If anything, though, please make the second OR at least start unbolted so that doctors can still operate with ghetto tools on an actual real optable. As it stands, we've had rounds with people waiting almost an hour for an OR over the test weekend, which isn't fun for anybody.

[Pratepresidenten]

As stated earlier, medical can function as is, but a secondary OR would be a sound investment in NT's favour as compared to cloning. Its a space station afterall, where airlocks malfunction, people slip in maintenance tunnels, get caught by anomalies and other (blue)space threats, leading to their bones being crushed, their organs to be damaged, and their arteries getting ruptured.

Being prepared for an increased influx of patients never hurt, especially when said influx could become very costly for the company in the long run.

But that being said, perhaps a compromize can be made? An addition to chemistry's supply stock, to get internal bleeding under control should there be a case of multiple critical patients?

Or perhaps another drug to fix someone's broken leg while they're wating in the hallway, when they just arent a priority compared to other patients?

Like the two here for example:

 

I do apologize if the suggestion doesnt belong in this thread, or if its unfitting, but I honestly believe that it would be a fair compromize. Doctors would have a (somewhat rare) way of treating a larger influx of patients with more ease, while the most critical patients are still cared for in the OR.

[Chada1]

When it comes to Bone fractures, we have Medical Splints, people just don't seem to use them. A Medical Splint makes it entirely possible to work with Fractures without much pain or difficulty, and then you can be called back to Medical when the OR is available. And if Surgery is absolutely necessary, there's still the Morgue Operating Table and Surgery Supply Crates from Cargo. You just have to adapt to the map, it's not supposed to be a luxurious dream job.

[Butterrobber202]

As another LesBay Player, 2 ORs are very very very very useful for then chucklefuck McBaldie and his Pals go riding through the Disposal Pipes, or when people start getting mauled by Teleporting Space Bears. And, during Merc rounds (NOT TO MENTION THE MEME THAT IS CROSSFIRE) people get a lot of bullet holes and broken bones put in them. Meaning that Medical will get flooded with Sec Staff and Crew members who got roughed up. Not to even mention that tripping down an elevator shaft will instantly break something. (If you survive)

[Exia]

I'd support a second, furbished OR. High pop rounds with mercs tends to end in disaster as stated above. Spiders, if left to go out of control, and bears also cause so many broken bones.

Also Chada, though it may be easier to put on a splint, it still hurts as much as it should. Your -insert limb name here- is still broken after all, but if the medbay can provide a few tramadol pills/ ask the chemist for some, it shouldn't be a giant problem, yeah.

[LordFowl]

Most of this has been implemented. A new plan for the operating room situation is in development by one of my mappers, and should be available Soon™.