[Policy] Punish Antags That Turn Themselves In For No Reason [Existing Policy - Binned]

[Zundy]

Yeah, so? If you looked at the posts, you will see things that already explain the idea. They maybe handed themselves in to roleplay. I had some pretty good rounds when the antag hands themselves in, telling command of their problems and I almost made medical vampirism a thing as the CMO. You do not need antags to roleplay, not all antags need to be shooty shooty kill security. I don't see how "we voted for it" is relevant. The voting system is more of a swindle, if it turns into an extended round and you don't like it, don't play. Like people said, you do not have a obligation for antags to interact with you.

 

Roleplay with a small group lmao. I was gonna get all passive aggressive but to be honest I see where you're coming from.

I'm thinking of extreme situations in which an antagonist hands themselves in and ends up having a three man roleplay with CMO, some doc and themselves or doesn't do anything at all but those are few and far between so the simple solution would be to ahelp those I guess.

Also why the fuck is everyone going on about secret? No shit extended could be on there and you should just roleplay as normal. I personally was just addressing the suggestion put forward, I take it the game mode Jackboot likely got pissed with before starting this thread was secret? Who cares, that's not what the suggestion was about.

[Scheveningen]

My point is that whether it involves an antagonist or not, nobody has the right to tell people how they should be playing. Loremaster included.

There's not much point in investing effort to prevent something that as of now, has not been identified as an actual problem. A vampire allegedly turned themselves into medbay to be researched and then sucked the blood of a fair deal of people and caused a lot of strife in the round, as he posed as an apparent shining example that antags are making it a habit of turning themselves in when the opposite is true, most antagonists are violent as it gets. Other antagonist players try to be more clever and play on the expectations of people OOCly and intentionally disappoint them, so that they can achieve their objectives without resorting violence and in turn forcing the people metagaming to do nothing if they don't want to be accused of metagaming. Which is not really metagaming but rather an exploitation of character's mindsets ICly while not doing anything that makes him considered valid in OOC terms.

It's just a different playstyle. There's nothing wrong with it.

[Zundy]

My point is that whether it involves an antagonist or not, nobody has the right to tell people how they should be playing. Loremaster included.

There's not much point in investing effort to prevent something that as of now, has not been identified as an actual problem. A vampire allegedly turned themselves into medbay to be researched and then sucked the blood of a fair deal of people and caused a lot of strife in the round, as he posed as an apparent shining example that antags are making it a habit of turning themselves in when the opposite is true, most antagonists are violent as it gets. Other antagonist players try to be more clever and play on the expectations of people OOCly and intentionally disappoint them, so that they can achieve their objectives without resorting violence and in turn forcing the people metagaming to do nothing if they don't want to be accused of metagaming. Which is not really metagaming but rather an exploitation of character's mindsets ICly while not doing anything that makes him considered valid in OOC terms.

It's just a different playstyle. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

And that's fair play. Like I said, I concede on it and agree that if in doubt, ahelp it.

[Scheveningen]

I think Tainavaa would be rolling in their grave if they saw we had this thread again.

[JKJudgeX]

While I'm not all about some "punishment" (as I've seen all too much how that can get out of hand) I do think that peace-antagging should at the very least be highly discouraged.

In a mixed mode, one side of the antags deciding to be supportive or partially supportive of the crew seems alright, but in regular secret, someone should be causing conflict.

In my view, RP without conflict has a definite limit with some people. YOU may want to play workplace simulator and be interested in whether Joey the Bartender has 3 ugly kids or if one of them is alright looking, but, other people wanted to roleplay characters in a non-mundane situation. For me, I never want to play extended because I feel like there is a 50% chance or so that any given round will BE extended for a given part of the crew. I've seen cult and rev rounds come and go without ever having to leave research or command because it all got wrapped up without me. I can't tell you how many times it's been wizard and I've never seen the wizard, or Malf and the only time I found out was when we switched to Delta and then everyone died. Extended will happen even without the mode...

I think that since there is an extended mode, that gives people enough opportunity to RP mundane scenarios without antagonists "ruining" it, in all other cases, antagonists should antagonize.

Uncheck the role if you don't want to antagonize.

[Faris]

So my personal stance on antags are generally if a person is simply not attempting to drive the story simply being lack of care or attempts, they'd be spoken to and things would escalate accordingly. A person that just gets antagonist to do the same old thing which isn't fun for the crew since it's either bland or simply involves no one isn't really what we'd deem an antagonist that drives the story and are spoken to, at least by myself personally. Obviously, new players or first time antagonists get some leeway since they're learning, we all were at some point new after all.

So in a sense we kind of already do this? I'll look over the thread again later on and see if I have anything else to add or clarify.

[Munks]

That's nice and all honey but have you considered that you can't really force anyone to play specific ways and neither can we

 

You, as in the server staff at large, force people to play the way you want them to every single round, every day, every month of every year. Stop using this as an excuse for inaction,

honey.

Players should be able to suggest to the staff ideas for event rounds if they truly feel that their "cute maido wizard who walks around and acts cute like she's just a normal cute crewmember" wizard gimmick is worth dedicating/wasting an entire round to. Otherwise, antagonists should perform their expected role and antagonize. It makes no sense OOC or IC for a highly secretive and generally hostile faction to send people to the station with gear thats generally out of reach even for high level Nanotrasen personnel just so they can hang out and chat. Antagonists don't exist for you to just be a normal crewmember but with a cool set of armor. Turning yourself in without having done anything needs to go. Being a peace antag and generally not making the round interesting at all for anyone except the little group of friends you decide to interact with needs to go. Extended already has a disproportionately large chance to pop up compared to every other roundtype, antags deciding to essentially force extended by not performing the role they opted for is inexcusable.

[Scheveningen]

Prunerino'd.

[TrickingTrapster]

Right, so, I wanna have a say in this as a guy that has a strong opinion on combat in this game.

Guys. Combat does >not< equal conflict. Peaceful antags can create plenty of conflict. In fact, in my own opinion, peaceful antags are better because they won't forcefully remove people from rounds by killing/spacing/succing them to death/whatever. This means everyone that joins the round gets a chance to enjoy it. Driving a story doesn't require you to shoot up the station or obliterate/get obliterated by security. I'll concede that it's not easy to do but it's certainly possible. I personally get more enjoyment out of an antag that comes in and inconveniences people with their abilities and a plausible backstory for them than a vampire that comes up to my character, says "hey come look at this cool stationary thing I found in maintenance" then proceeds to killsucc once in there.

Not a single antag >needs< any type of combat to create a driving story for the crew. I just think it's so ingrained into our community that most people don't know any better anymore. That's my personal opinion though.

[Skull132]

I hope you understand that this isn't about combat versus non-combat.

This is about an antagonist not doing anything by turning himself in. It leads to nothing, you can expect to be bounced around in the brig for 2 hours if you do that and nothing else. If you can explain to me how a lone antag is fulfilling his requirement to drive a story by turning himself in and getting jostled around in the brig for the entire round, then sure. Otherwise, please stay on topic.

[hivefleetchicken]

We literally have people making incident reports on rounds they were traitors in.

If you play traitor like you play extended, turn your fucking candidacy off for god sakes.

[Coalf]

I agree with what OP says.

Antagonists are here to do exactly that, antagonize.

An antagonist doesn't have to shoot fireballs around and fight the crew, there are many ways to be an antagonist and plenty of those are peaceful antags.

But antags who intentionally turn themselves in essentially neglect their role, it's akin to picking your job to be a Janitor and simply refusing the clean the floors with which we take actual issue, ICly.

We can't do the same thing for antags since they're a non-canon thing, thus it requires us to step in and set things right.

So yes, I support this policy, although it should be worded better and "For no reason" replaced with more specific description.

[Faris]

We already enforce this. Any antagonist that wastes their slot without furthering the narrative as per the rules will result in administrative actions.

Now, the issue is the lack of people actually ahelping these incidents, we can only deal with things we are reported or notice.

I'm going to lock this as it's already a policy.