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Who's shouting?


Butterrobber202

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I feel like this would be great for atmosphere on cult rounds and the like, but is it really worth how much it fucks over antagonists?

 

Smart antags would properly stop their hostage/victim from speaking, it's not fucking antags over, it's making them think things over and be more careful.

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I feel like this would be great for atmosphere on cult rounds and the like, but is it really worth how much it fucks over antagonists?

 

Smart antags would properly stop their hostage/victim from speaking, it's not fucking antags over, it's making them think things over and be more careful.

 

So you can't speak to your victim after you've dragged him into maintenance without everyone hearing him scream?

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I feel like this would be great for atmosphere on cult rounds and the like, but is it really worth how much it fucks over antagonists?

 

Smart antags would properly stop their hostage/victim from speaking, it's not fucking antags over, it's making them think things over and be more careful.

 

I see this "justification" frequently.


Where's the natural limit for how smart and careful an antagonist should have to be in order to meet with some modicum of success? I think at a certain point it starts to lack a lot of the fun factor. Antags are here to run a gimmick and create a story for people. Requiring them to have Moriarty-level plotting and planning seems to just mean that each round is going to eventually be a series of security officers arresting people and then the shuttle being called when everyone gets bored.


Seriously scroll through the suggested changes that have to do with existing antag types and take a look at how many times "antags will just need to be smarter/more careful" type replies there are for obvious nerfs to antags.



For what it's worth though, I really like the idea of one ! being an exclamation and !! being a shout, simply because not everything exclaimed is shouted, and it seems goofy when you YELL "nice job!" right in someone's face lol.

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I honestly am highly against this. It will limit Roleplay and a "screaming nearby" will cause people to investigate. Sometimes as an antag you want your victims to speak to you while you murder them.

 

Speaking is fine? Normal chatter won't cause a message. But if the fucker screams at the top of his lungs you stick your 45. down his throat.

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Well I mean, if you look at it the other way around, NOT hearing someone scream just because they're 1 tile out of your vision range or because you put up the blinders on your windows is also incredibly silly. I get that there's some medium of balance here but not hearing someone scream (or even talk) just because they are in that one black spot in your vision range is just outright stupid. I like the idea of this, but maybe has certain things dampen sounds? Walls and space should obviously dampen sounds, and airlocks too, as they don't allow any air through, and sound is just the air trembling really fast. I dunno if it would work though.

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I honestly am highly against this. It will limit Roleplay and a "screaming nearby" will cause people to investigate.

 

Yes. That is the point. People should be able to hear others screaming. We can hear doors opening at a distance, but if someone is getting murdered, they're dead silent as long as they don't have a radio. Antagonists should actually have to be stealthy and not just rely on yanking people into a bathroom or something in a busy area to get an easy absorb. It will still be possible with preparation if you can silence your victim, but otherwise some sort of effort will be needed

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Supporting. If someone wanted to counterplay this when murdering someone, they should either slaughter someone in a less obvious way, cover a person's mouth or muffle them in another method.


The auto-screaming should be disabled if a person is unconscious, though. Murder should be difficult to pull off, assassinating someone and getting away with it shouldn't be easy unless done with proper pre-meditation. There should be consequences if the murderer messes up and pulls off the kill sloppily. With luck, nobody will be nearby anyway.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

murder and assassinations are already hard... We don't need to broadcast to half the station that someone just died in maintenance because the screams pierce through steel walls.

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We can hear everything else through walls just fine, there's no reason screaming should be inexplicably absent. Traitors need to put effort into being stealthy with their traitoring, murdering someone in a crowded medbay just because you dragged them into a nearby restroom makes no sense

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What jackboot said, it is already hard enough to murder someone in maint. How about changlings? They make little sound and now this will be an excuse for everyone with maintenance access to rush in and go find some dude. These are solid steel walls, multiple infact and it is still a little BS that sounds play through them.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

I think jumping someone and dragging them into a secluded area is effort enough... When an antagonist is secluded with a victim, they have control of the situation and can spare time to do the mandatory monologue or interaction. Do you know what I have to do if they can now scream for a third of the station to hear? Kill them as quickly and unceremoniously as possible and flee the scene. This is the same as shouting "HELP IM BEING KILLED" over the public radio. If screaming over the public radio is poor form, why is making an automated scream mechanic NOT?


The consequences of such a mechanic will be the opposite of what you are shooting for. Antags can better interact with you when they are in control of the immediate situation and feel secure enough to spare moments with you.

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I think you're overstating the range that these screams are meant to travel, and how much of an effect it'd have. For one, people would have no idea of the direction or distance of it if the message is just like "You hear muffled screaming..." and additionally the majority of weapons people are going to use (not counting stings and vampire eyeflashing, both of which silence you anyway) already make noise. You can hear someone beating someone to death with a toolbox or an esword if you're standing outside where it's happening, why would hearing them screaming be any different?


If someone is screaming just when they're being monologued to, it's an RP problem. But if you're making someone scream because you're torturing them, it should not be stealthy. You should not be torturing someone in a crowded department.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

Yes, it's an RP problem. One that creates too many drawbacks and opens too much abuse to be worth the benefits.


The benefits of screaming are to alert people that a murder is taking place, and to investigate and get security involved. That makes murders MORE time sensitive than they already are. So I will need to kill my victim faster and flee faster. This would cause more unceremonious and unsatisfying murders because they would need to be hit and runs to try and avoid the hunting.

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If we were worried about the abuse, we'd give the detective a nerf gun instead of a revolver, we'd rework the AI into the unusable buggy form that the Europa AI is now, and also revert all of the cool things mining got in the new map. Why is this so consistently brought up? "It could be abused" rarely holds water considering we have 20~ members of the staff team who log on around the clock to take complaints and solve issues/concerns relating to validhunting on server.


Lifeweb has this feature tuned in with audio oggs added to most emotes, including yelping, screaming and wailing from pain when getting mauled to death. They don't have an issue with validhunting.


There's a surprising amount of stun measures you can use to kidnap someone and then murder them in a more secluded area. There's also a surprising lack of people who use them out of fear of being accused of poodergayming. You're not supposed to get away with murder that easily. If you want it done right without anyone noticing you'd invest more of a concerted attempt in pre-meditating the possible conditions you have to take into account.


You do not "have" to hit-and-run murder anyway. If you cared as much about their execution you'd organize their death in a reasonably creative and clandestine manner. There are three levels of the station people have access to that they can use and abuse to slaughter people in secluded locations. Maintenance was designed for this, with its winding corridors and secret rooms holed up everywhere. I'm failing to understand what the issue here is beyond an unwillingness to attempt a new playstyle with more interesting conditions to make the game more challenging for you and everyone else. I assume, "Don't kill someone around medbay or security, much less near any populated area" holds water as good advice because the body gets found faster in either of those locations whether this gets implemented or not.


You shouldn't have your antagonist experienced handed to you, you should have to earn your own satisfaction. Difficulty conditions such as these add necessary depth to the game to keep tensions high and interesting for all parties involved.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

Is it sportsmanlike to scream you are being killed, and your approximate location, on the public radio?


No. That is what shouting is. Anyone in earshot will instantly know there is a murder and summon security. I am 100% confident this would create more unceremonious murders from antags. I'm not going to risk being creative with my murders if I give myself away so easily.

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