JKJudgeX Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 (edited) Every time I have encountered frag grenades, via ERT or Syndie Borg (or some other ways I'm sure), they have been tremendously overpowered. For that reason I think the damage that they do should be decreased, or the availability of them should be reduced. Seriously one frag even in decent armor and your ghost is blown out of your body. I've just never really seen them be appropriate in power level, and the availability of them to those who get them seems to be pretty much "you spawn with/summon multiple of these" by comparison to similarly powerful things that seem to take some serious doing to acquire. I don't think they facilitate good RP, either, so, let's put them a little further back on the shelf. I'm in no way saying this is the only thing that is OP, just one of the things that it seems like could be toned down or put a bit more out of reach to require certain antags and ERT members to work just a little bit harder for that murderbone. Edited September 20, 2017 by Guest
cloud Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 i once got implanted with a frag grenade by a traitor and it did like 20 brute so
Fire and Glory Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 i once got implanted with a frag grenade by a traitor and it did like 20 brute so Sounds like it was either a shitty water and potassium grenade or implanting the frag messed it up, either way you didn't get the experience. Being within about 4 tiles from a frag will likely kill you (not to mention any mates you had if they weren't standing behind you) instantly, if not instantly you will probably die soon enough, armor doesn't really help in these ranges. While motivation to actually run and take cover from such a grenade is all fine and dandy, Usually Instant-Death seems a bit much. I wouldn't object if the amount of fragments got reduced by 15-40%.
Pacmandevil Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 Every time I have encountered frag grenades, via ERT or Syndie Borg (or some other ways I'm sure), they have been tremendously overpowered. Syndie borgs are more than 25 tc - They're supposed to be OP. The only suggestion I have here is increasing the box price from 2 to like, 8? That sounds good to me.
Fire and Glory Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 (edited) aren't frags priced at like 12 TC currently In fact it is. If you could get any amount of frags for 2 TC we'd have a serious problem on hand. Edited September 9, 2017 by Guest
Pacmandevil Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 Last I checked - like way back when. they were two. if they're 12 I think they're fine. standing near a frag grenade should generally cause death,
Fire and Glory Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 Death, yes, instant death from being anywhere near it, I'd say no. And most people get 5 of these things. I believe being adjacent to a frag, maaybe two tiles away, should usually kill you instantly, and work down from there, wasn't one of the Big Things about these grenades being the fact that they lodge fragments like bullets? There's not much of that in play when the bloke dies right off.
Fire and Glory Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 Mayhaps for someone to actually work to obtain five such death-nades. I merely expect such a ss13 spacemen grenade to not, with a 100% success rate, instantly kill everyone around. Yeess, it should kill, yeess, a fair few times it should do it instantly, but mayhaps not be so unfailingly reliable about instant murder? If you can generally expect most people caught up in it to die and fully expect all of them to be seriously fucked up beyond resistance, I'd be happy.
Scheveningen Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 Frags are supposed to kill people in that way. It's the shrapnel that murders you, not the sheer force of the explosion. Position yourself diagonally from the grenade and it will rarely hurt you at all.
DatBerry Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 Frag grenades should not be able to have their timer changed, a one second frag is not avoidable in any real capacity. Resting/being down should give you a high chance to dodge shrapnel, unless all the shrapnel is shot at the legs, going down should let you dodge any shrapnel shooting above 30 - 45 degrees
MattAtlas Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 Frag grenades should not be able to have their timer changed, a one second frag is not avoidable in any real capacity. Resting/being down should give you a high chance to dodge shrapnel, unless all the shrapnel is shot at the legs, going down should let you dodge any shrapnel shooting above 30 - 45 degrees I can agree with this, I personally feel like frag nades should always be on a set timer and not be able to be modified. I also agree with the fact that resting down should give a high chance of dodging most shrapnel fragments.
JKJudgeX Posted September 9, 2017 Author Posted September 9, 2017 Yeah, most of my experiences with them have been *beep beep* *boom* Hey, am I a ghost? WTF? Why am I a ghost? Was that a-... oh, it was a frag grenade... oh, damn, my buddy is a ghost now too. Weren't we both wearing armor? wtf. I get that there are supposed to be powerful weapons like this, which is why I said pushing them further out of people's hands would also be an acceptable mitigation. ERT guys just up and get them, for example, and this rarely, rarely makes sense. That could easily be changed. Also, something being OP, like the syndie borg, doesn't necessarily mean it should insta-murder people. Just make it tougher or give it more sustained medium-level lethality. Also getting within the blast of a tank transfer bomb that blows out walls and utterly ruins 40+ tiles doesn't usually kill you instantly. I was next to a ninja's self destruct and it didn't insta-ghost me. Any amount of decrease in quantity of grenades, power level of grenades, or general availability of grenades would be an improvement.
Scheveningen Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 The effective killing radius of a M67 Fragmentation Hand Grenade is within 5 meters of its dispersal of fragments and shrapnel. They have an effective casualty radius of 15 meters, however, shrapnel can stretch past that range and be thrown as far as 230 meters. Assuming every character is under or equal to 2 meters tall and each tile is two meters tall and wide, the expected instant kill radius would be within 3 tiles. Further than that, an individual suffering from fragment-caused injuries can potentially survive the damage but will be bleeding severely or will be in critical condition. While M67s are typically composed of Composition B, I have an inkling that more powerful primers would be used in the year 2459, in addition to light amounts of plasteel casings being used in order to throw fragments of sharp and robust materials at longer ranges. Generally speaking, frag grenades are working as intended. Antagonists may purchase them at an uplink or they may be found in other places. ERT has fragmentation grenades to pack in the event of external hostiles to drive off and deal with in succinct and efficient methods. Frag grenades are not "overpowered", but rather, "respectably powerful." Their current in-game design is practical in terms of what to expect when haphazardly sitting on a fragmentation grenade. Contrary to popular belief, nothing short of a bomb suit will save someone from the fragments blasting from a hand grenade, given the fragments fly at such a speed that they rival a hollow point bullet's velocity. Shrapnel resistant does not mean shrapnel proof. Frag grenades are highly deadly in the wrong hands and people should learn to respect the destructive power of such a weapon. They're fine. Buff players to learn when to run and when to fight, tbh.
Fire and Glory Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 [mention]Scheveningen[/mention] Fine, fair enough. I concede regarding the blast radius.
JKJudgeX Posted September 10, 2017 Author Posted September 10, 2017 Yep, frag grenades in real life are nasty. Every firearm is super-weak compared to the amount of damage it does in real life, but, frag grenades aren't. I'm fine if they are kept as powerful but more highly limited in availability, or vice versa. I'm not sure how you can occupy the position that various other, far less lethal things fall into the wrong hands too frequently and are super disruptive, and should require more red-tape to acquire, but are fine with oft-abused, 1-shot kill weapons instantly available to certain roles with no red-tape or "interaction" necessary, but hey, being logically consistent certainly isn't a requirement.
Hackie Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 One second timers are nearly as deadly to the user as the opponent considering how clunky byond can be. Syndicate Cyborgs are insanely expensive and can get borked by a sprinting tajaran cadet with a flash. Reducing the availability to traitors makes it less of an equalizing area-denial weapon and into an assassination tool. I have no comment on ERT, I don't know how many frags they have in their possession, but since they seemingly happen to have .50 cals in their possession I don't think they're supposed to be fought on a level playing field. Just my thoughts.
Scheveningen Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 The difference, however, is that one traitor may use a whole box of frag grenades for themselves, whereas an ERT needs to divide the box of frags among themselves. This does turn out in more ERT having one grenade at any one time, but not a lot of nades to avoid from one person in particular. Teamwork generally trumps everything.
Arrow768 Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 The damage of frag grenades has been reduced in dev about two weeks ago. Further reductions will not happen until these changes are live. https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/3322 Therefore voting for dismissal
JKJudgeX Posted September 10, 2017 Author Posted September 10, 2017 Oh, this was already done, then . Good. Well, I'm glad I'm not crazy for thinking they were OP. Thanks Arrow.
DatBerry Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 The damage of frag grenades has been reduced in dev about two weeks ago. Further reductions will not happen until these changes are live. https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/3322 Therefore voting for dismissal Honestly, would rather keep the damage and go with the two points I suggested, instead of straight up damage reduction, it gives more variation to it's use (have to cook it up, corner people etc) and counter (jumping down).
Kaed Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 Can we actually just remove the frag grenades from the syndicate borg, or only let them fire one at a time with a significant delay. All it's creating is a 0 effort way to murder the entire security team by spamming grenades at them until they are a slurry. You say 'just run away' or take cover, but how are you supposed to know the borgs have frag grenades if you are supposed to not metagame? And then, after you are already knocked down by the first grenade, they can just toss them out until you and everyone else around are dead.
Scheveningen Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 25TC for a single syndie borg, more than usual than you would pay for 5 frag grenades in a box. Frags will be nerfed when dev merges to master.
MoondancerPony Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 One suggestion per thread, please, [mention]Kaed[/mention]. Even though that's a legitimate suggestion, it should be posted in its own topic to get the attention it deserves. Anyway. Given that there is an upcoming frag nerf in the development branch, I don't see a reason to keep this thread going. Voting for dismissal.
Recommended Posts