[Denied] Coalf's Head Lore Manager Application

[Coalf]

This application seems a little unwarranted unless @Senpai Jackboot apparently mentioned out of turn that he was quitting.

This is far below the standard I'd expect for an up and coming usurper to the lore master position. I say that entirely sardonically as I don't see it happening until Jackboot wants to quit.

 

I'd suggest you read the additional notes then.

[Scheveningen]

You're barely qualified to usurp. You have no lore dev experience here. Assuming this place is a meritocracy, you've little merit to claim that qualifies you specifically for the role. You're not just applying for lore dev to gain experience, you're applying for a seniority role because "you think you can do better." Many arrogant subordinates think they could do better than their boss. They end up struggling just as much as the manager themselves.

I like you, Coalf, but frankly if anything were to happen it would need to start with an extremely proactive lore dev first. Assuming I ever wanted that, considering the amount of work Jackboot orchestrates just on his own.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Guest

[Coalf]

You're barely qualified to usurp. You have no lore dev experience here. Assuming this place is a meritocracy, you've little merit to claim that qualifies you specifically for the role. You're not just applying for lore dev to gain experience, you're applying for a seniority role because "you think you can do better." Many arrogant subordinates think they could do better than their boss. They end up struggling just as much as the manager themselves.

 

Thank you for your opinion.

I hope I can earn your trust in the future.

[Fire and Glory]

I personaly think we should stop striving for these "Bulks" of massive events and focus on having semi-regular antag/lore events atleast once or twice a month.

...

Simply arrange yourself an extended round and move in for trade negotiations, if the captain is too much of a dickhead well that will affect the station in the future.

I am curious about this.

There is this problem with lore events where the crew of Aurora frankly aren't people to give much of a damn about, no one there decides jack about anything besides what happens on the station, someone who wants to have trade negotiations with Nanotrasen would go to Odin, not Aurora. Back when lore events were rather common there was also the question of why important people went there all the time when they always left with a diplomatic incident.

What are your thoughts on lore events elevating Aurora on a pedestal it should not really be on? If you were lore manager would you do something special with either the events or Aurora to have this make sense?

EDIT: Although I guess with Exodus/Aurora/anywhere we go being a '''top of the line''' research station there is some merit for those godawful VIP tours, but I get the sense that's not what you have planned.

[UnknownMurder]

Before you read this whole paragraph, under no intention do I mean to campaign smear and call Jackboot or you a terrible person and undeserving this job because this and that. You and Jackboot are equally wonderful people because in which here. I am more concerned about your strengths and weaknesses. As this is Coalf's application, he will be evaluated whether he can perform this duty in which is unlikely will be accepted as because this is as it appears to be extreme stretch from a non-development player to head lore developer.

Coalf, I can imagine that most of us can say that it is very courageous of you to file directly for Head Lore Manager whilst knowing many obstacles will be thrown at you. I honestly cannot exaggerate enough of how surprised and lighthearted I am to see you still standing strong, despite the negative criticism in this application. Because of what I've just seen in comparison to current Head Lore Manager, I am inclined to stand with you on this part and this has my praise. It is to my belief that the leader's social status and public relations with people requires a heavy responsibility and burden to put up an illusion smiley face in the public's eye (not goody two shoes) as you taken on any leadership responsibility. However, Jackboot has made many successful achievements in his work as Head Lore Manager and knows his work force and probably has an agenda for people. Similar to Shev's negative criticism, I'll be nicer and try to appear more positive and Negative Nancy. I can take this for granted as that you may not have the knowledge of how things work and flow in the lore department directly under Skull. Do I mind about this application? No. I believe this is beginning of to a great start. Am I worrying about you taking on too much burden to carry for the sake of Aurora, taking too much time of your free time? Yes. As we know it to be, everyone does not have unlimited time and will inevitably fade from this server soon which brings me to ask you these questions summarized from what I've just discussed.

.

• Will you have the sufficient time to handle three responsibilities: Moderator, Whitelister, Lore Dev Manager? If so, are you absolutely sure that you will be determined to invest your time and care in to the lore?
• Other than what we just witnessed here, how you respond to negative criticism (not counting meme question/statement/proposal such as "What does X's sexual genitals look like?")
  
• What are your successful achievements as a regular in this community?
  
• If this application is not accepted, what will you do?
  

.

I'll be honest and be non-serious for a moment, I thought this application was a meme.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I think a recent issue with a change to Dominia highlights a problem inherent to my position that even Coalf would suffer from.

There is an endemic attitude in the community that I've dealt with since even my days as a meagre unathi developer. No matter how much I kick and scream and make announcements and beg, it is very hard to get feedback on certain things. So over the years I've developed the philosophy that just doing it, and doing it wrong, will get more feedback. And that happened!

A few days ago someone said Dominia shouldn't have slavery with explosive collars and was very articulated about it, and they were well articulated and had thoughtful responses. I agreed with his points, and he was one of the only people to dump his opinion on Dominia at me, so I took these to Zundy. Zundy was fine with emancipating the slaves, and I shot out an article because Zundy said he wanted it changed IC'ly rather than retconned.

THEN someone said Dominia SHOULD have slaves and was upset they got emancipated, and was well articulated about it. Ergo, I only got a conversation going by actually just making a change and waiting for complaints.

Even this application is a symptom of that problem. There have been no suggestions that the lore team do anything that you've said we should be doing in this application.

To summarize, nobody communicates anything, and they all let it build up, build up, build up, until it explodes into a drama bomb on the forums. Or they release it in small bits by being really abrasive in the player discord over a long period of time.

How would you deal with situations where people want two different things? Will you be able to more effectively pull the playerbases' teeth to get their feedback? How can you promise better communication and transparency when, despite repeated announcements and pleading by me, feedback remains a rare commodity?

I also reject the accusations of favoritism with Unathi. Things are not going well for them in lore. I do not understand how their repeated coups, runaway religious inquisition, and inability to project themselves outside their own systems is endemic of a self-insert race. They gained a capital ship by virtue of winning the very first antagonist contest we had. I don't understand how that's self-inserting when they won via the players... And then it got bombed and crippled on its maiden voyage. Even mechanically Unathi are not the most OP race. The only differences between them and Tajara is that Unathi's sprint is arguably worse (it is very fast but incredibly short in a game where kiting is key) and get poisoned by 97% of the contents of the bar. Sure they can devour carp and mice but those are hardly beneficial to anything other than making non-unathi super uncomfortable when they do it.

Why were you sitting on all of these points and thoughts that you had? Why did you let them build up until you wanted to get me fired and replaced? Why didn't you ask me if you could join my team and help me solve the problems you feel are endemic? Why did you not show any good faith in assuming I was able and willing to enact reforms? I've shown in the past I am willing to make changes even if I am deeply uncomfortable with them, which is why I changed my position on allowing admins to apply to join my team as lore developers. Super uncomfortable for me, but I did it anyway. Why do you think I am unwilling to do anything that you want us to do? Why do I need to be removed from my post to get it done?

And yes, I have hired problematic developers. It's backfired on me a few times but generally I really try to be as open as possible. I do not inherently regret hiring Tammy nor do I regret hiring any developer. I am certainty more thoughtful and cautious about hiring in the future. Every dev had a period where they've had a great work ethic and I can cite good work from every dev I've ever hired. I believe that creativity and good faith can come from even the most problematic of people. It is a very risky gamble, but one I try to make because I really appreciate genuine desire, eagerness, and a willingness to commit. I am a sucker for underdogs I guess!

[Brutishcrab51]

I'm not a man of many words, and to be quite fair, I never have been. After reading through this thread in full, re-reading it, and then talking about it with others on the Discord, I've come to this belief.

Coalf, you're a fantastic guy, you've been here for a while - longer than me, surely -- but I don't think that makes you qualified to shoot straight for Head Lore Master. If there were a normal Lore Developer application? Absolutely, I would support this, you have great ideas and have talked about how you would go about inputting them.

But you didn't. And personally, I don't think it's acceptable to shoot up to a position that's already being held by the likes of Jackboot, who does just as much work for the server as the next guy. That's why I can't give the nod to this.

[Scheveningen]

Man. Gonna put it pretty simply, this was obviously drafted off of principle and not for purpose.

Coalf and JB were very obviously heated in discussion about topics of the lore and it ended with "If you think you can do better you can apply", which is something that's been repeated a few times to JB's numerous critics who funny enough, turned out most of the time to be lore devs and churned out a lot of work!

But ultimately this seems to be boiling down to a showdown of ego. You both want honest feedback but neither of you are going to like it in the event it comes and strikes a proper chord in the both of you. I can talk about ego as well, by the way, considering I'd do the exact same thing given the situation. It's a very human thing to want to stretch stuff out like this on the basis of defending one's own principles.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Thanks Delta! I always try to encourage people to apply for a position if they start going off about something in the lore that they want to fix. He got a little snarky and asked if he could apply for my position, hence my exasperated response.

[Skull132]

Man. Gonna put it pretty simply, this was obviously drafted off of principle and not for purpose.

 

wtf i like delta now.

[Coalf]

I personaly think we should stop striving for these "Bulks" of massive events and focus on having semi-regular antag/lore events atleast once or twice a month.

...

Simply arrange yourself an extended round and move in for trade negotiations, if the captain is too much of a dickhead well that will affect the station in the future.

I am curious about this.

There is this problem with lore events where the crew of Aurora frankly aren't people to give much of a damn about, no one there decides jack about anything besides what happens on the station, someone who wants to have trade negotiations with Nanotrasen would go to Odin, not Aurora. Back when lore events were rather common there was also the question of why important people went there all the time when they always left with a diplomatic incident.

It was simply an example and re-reading it I realize it was somewhat of a poor example, but it serves its purpose to show that it's a game.

Additionaly walking around official large branches TRAINED to deal with you like Odin and accessing branches smaller that are frankly unprepared is also a common trade tactic, while Odin could state later that the negotiations done by the captain are moot they'd be admitting their captains are improperly trained. Not a bad explanation huh?

In a game where a non-specific team of red-suited individuals can act as a protection team and the crew believe them because it was faxed from CC, I think we can pretend that someone would want to contact the station they want to trade with directly rather than through hoops.

What are your thoughts on lore events elevating Aurora on a pedestal it should not really be on? If you were lore manager would you do something special with either the events or Aurora to have this make sense?

One of the things I would LOVE to push, this "Aurora is just a spec in the universe" serves to enhance the world but that has recently led to what I believe is skimping out on aurora where we just have 360 normal round days and then 5 special "You have care about the lore now" days.

I'd like to perhaps post-pone or even cancel these bulky antag events and rather replace them with smaller, less important events that still no less have a bearing on the aurora universe.

 

EDIT: Although I guess with Exodus/Aurora/anywhere we go being a '''top of the line''' research station there is some merit for those godawful VIP tours, but I get the sense that's not what you have planned.

VIP tours aren't the only thing, legit bandit raids (For my favorite unga bugna maglights), corporate espionage (for those scientists who just LOVE printing random things and shoving them in faces of other people), relief missions (We've had this one event before where wounded "NPC's" were sent to Aurora as a nearby ship exploded and medical was tasked with helping them)

etc. etc.

These rounds should bring those people that don't care about the lore into the lore at large, but SLOWLY.

I find these giant bulks we have are loredumps where someone new either has to give up making sense of it or read 23 wiki articles which just causes information overload and just serves to scare most people away from the lore. (in my opinion)

[Coalf]

• Will you have the sufficient time to handle three responsibilities: Moderator, Whitelister, Lore Dev Manager? If so, are you absolutely sure that you will be determined to invest your time and care in to the lore?
  

I already spent majority of my day outside of college on aurora due to being a massive IRL loser and I'm determined to try my hardest, if I cannot I have no issue with throwing the towel into the ring and letting someone better and with more time back into the seat, or Jackboots again if he would wish so at the time were this to go through.

Other than what we just witnessed here, how you respond to negative criticism (not counting meme question/statement/proposal such as "What does X's sexual genitals look like?")

Well i'll see if it's warranted first, ask my lore team what they think about X and Y lore and if it turns out to be legitimate, well yes I'll concede, having shoutfests in Lore_Chat about being right is much different from actual criticism when I'm creating something as I've already shown (I think) with my literaly works on Aurora and guides that i've created.

What are your successful achievements as a regular in this community?

My proudest achievement would be helping in memeing Dominia into eventually being picked up as an idea by Zundy and becoming a major faction from what was previously one measly planet. Also getting flashbangs into armory.

And as I've described before the Fanfiction subforum (in hindsight horrible name) is also of my design.

If this application is not accepted, what will you do?

I'll shrug and go play a round or two. The fact is by putting this here my pleas have been heard and the issues raised are issues which a lot of people clearly agree on as shown by this feedback I've received and the actual debates I've sparked.

I'll be honest and be non-serious for a moment, I thought this application was a meme.

That's why I had to include it's not a meme in the additional notes.

[Coalf]

I think a recent issue with a change to Dominia....

I think a recent issue with a change to Dominia highlights a problem inherent to my position that even Coalf would suffer from.

There is an endemic attitude in the community that I've dealt with since even my days as a meagre unathi developer. No matter how much I kick and scream and make announcements and beg, it is very hard to get feedback on certain things. So over the years I've developed the philosophy that just doing it, and doing it wrong, will get more feedback. And that happened!

A few days ago someone said Dominia shouldn't have slavery with explosive collars and was very articulated about it, and they were well articulated and had thoughtful responses. I agreed with his points, and he was one of the only people to dump his opinion on Dominia at me, so I took these to Zundy. Zundy was fine with emancipating the slaves, and I shot out an article because Zundy said he wanted it changed IC'ly rather than retconned.

THEN someone said Dominia SHOULD have slaves and was upset they got emancipated, and was well articulated about it. Ergo, I only got a conversation going by actually just making a change and waiting for complaints.

Even this application is a symptom of that problem. There have been no suggestions that the lore team do anything that you've said we should be doing in this application.

To summarize, nobody communicates anything, and they all let it build up, build up, build up, until it explodes into a drama bomb on the forums. Or they release it in small bits by being really abrasive in the player discord over a long period of time.

How would you deal with situations where people want two different things? Will you be able to more effectively pull the playerbases' teeth to get their feedback? How can you promise better communication and transparency when, despite repeated announcements and pleading by me, feedback remains a rare commodity?

I also reject the accusations of favoritism with Unathi. Things are not going well for them in lore. I do not understand how their repeated coups, runaway religious inquisition, and inability to project themselves outside their own systems is endemic of a self-insert race. They gained a capital ship by virtue of winning the very first antagonist contest we had. I don't understand how that's self-inserting when they won via the players... And then it got bombed and crippled on its maiden voyage. Even mechanically Unathi are not the most OP race. The only differences between them and Tajara is that Unathi's sprint is arguably worse (it is very fast but incredibly short in a game where kiting is key) and get poisoned by 97% of the contents of the bar. Sure they can devour carp and mice but those are hardly beneficial to anything other than making non-unathi super uncomfortable when they do it.

You mistook it, I frankly I don't care about you as a lore developer, YES I AM UPSET at many things but these things are NOT the reason I made this.

I've complained at a lot of things privately with other people, just like you got this information from a third party so I got information from other third parties and many times I got the "Just make a staff complaint," talk.

But I don't want to kill you Jackboots, I see what you're with lore sometimes I am upset but in the end I frankly can't bring myself to care about these changes because they AREN'T WRONG but they're DIFFERENT to what I would like.

If you look at this application you see one thing, about 2-3 lore handling questions, rest are in regards to staff.

I think want to replace you as a Staff Manager not Lore Manager.

Frankly even if I DO succeed I won't be changing unathi mechanics at all most likely, the only thing I've hoped to change and speak to ByGone about is to split Kois phoron and Real Phoron into two categories so it's less of a pain in the ass for Vaurca to obtain and less of a strain on other players to secure it for them.

 

Why were you sitting on all of these points and thoughts that you had? Why did you let them build up until you wanted to get me fired and replaced? Why didn't you ask me if you could join my team and help me solve the problems you feel are endemic? Why did you not show any good faith in assuming I was able and willing to enact reforms? I've shown in the past I am willing to make changes even if I am deeply uncomfortable with them, which is why I changed my position on allowing admins to apply to join my team as lore developers. Super uncomfortable for me, but I did it anyway. Why do you think I am unwilling to do anything that you want us to do? Why do I need to be removed from my post to get it done?

Because you're not a pleasant person in power to deal with and I don't want to join your team.(Personal experience, I know you have many friends and to some of your friends I speak to myself and they often managed to explain to me your ideas in a way where I had to concede and say "Yes I guess he's right.)

I engaged with you on discord in serious discourse, both in PM's and in lore-chat which often gets misinterpreted, driven to satire or derailed by you getting bored of the conversation and talking about something else.

Additonally the forum allows me to:

A: I like to think majority of the players saw this, now they can think, talk and debate about these topics without it dissapearing on discord in 10 minutes. I'm not saying my ideas are correct, but from the support I've received so far I like to think they are.

B: It's both polite and a powermove. I didn't want to make this a complaint for reasons Schev and CoolBC demonstrated, I.E trying to urge people into a shitslinging festival, this is a discourse.

It also serves to say that hopefuly you'll stop using a "Do it yourself" excuse to dodge criticism. I didn't like it, well here I am, doing it myself as you suggested.

C: I'm no orator and english isn't my first language, thus I often fail to explain my points in heated debates like discord where I don't get the chance to change my argument 10-20 times before it gets off topic. So logicaly the forum was my choice.

AND YET

To say that I, Coalf, thrice the biggest meme voted do not suffer from the same issues as you, well that would be a hypocrisy.

Conspiir doesn't trust me and I see why, because of my vocal dislike of vaurca, my often memetic nature and flagrant display of vulgarity and still.

I'm not a Lore Manager, my words weight a lot less and Conspiir is again a great tool to show this.

He isn't afraid of me screaming "Delete Vaurca" as Coalf the moderator, he's afraid of me screaming "Delete Vaurca" as coalf the Lore Moderator.

Thus I would hope to fix up these memetic hole and I regret I'd have to actually become semi-serious in the future.

 

And yes, I have hired problematic developers. It's backfired on me a few times but generally I really try to be as open as possible. I do not inherently regret hiring Tammy nor do I regret hiring any developer. I am certainty more thoughtful and cautious about hiring in the future. Every dev had a period where they've had a great work ethic and I can cite good work from every dev I've ever hired. I believe that creativity and good faith can come from even the most problematic of people. It is a very risky gamble, but one I try to make because I really appreciate genuine desire, eagerness, and a willingness to commit. I am a sucker for underdogs I guess!

If you don't regret it, what stops you from hiring the same people in the future?

You had plenty of chances to ask other people for their opinions about individuals, you've received opinions but it seems from an outsider perspective that hiring lore writers is less of a "Who do we want on the team" and more of a "Who do I want on the team".

Again I'm an outside observer and it's the feeling I get, I can be completely wrong and I apologize.

[Coalf]

Man. Gonna put it pretty simply, this was obviously drafted off of principle and not for purpose.

Coalf and JB were very obviously heated in discussion about topics of the lore and it ended with "If you think you can do better you can apply", which is something that's been repeated a few times to JB's numerous critics few times to JB's numerous critics who funny enough, turned out most of the time to be lore devs and churned out a lot of work!

And this is acceptible? "Do it yourself" is a good deflection? No, it isn't.

It's volunteer work I understand that but in the end you're doing it because you want to and if you're not willing to listen to someone and just going to bat him off with "Do it yourself" well at that point, why are you doing it?

If I cook and someone dislikes my cooking, I can't tell them to do it themselves, I have to judge if the dislike is warranted or unwarranted and continue from that.

Again, I am not criminally offended by lore, but by his Managment, becoming a lore writer would make no sense in that case.

EDIT: I deleted the responses to questions I thought of as off-topic vague psycho-analysis and my more mean response and meme response which I should avoid if I'm trying to keep this things serious.

Original post can be found here:

Scheveningen wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:28 am

Man. Gonna put it pretty simply, this was obviously drafted off of principle and not for purpose.

Scheveningen wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:28 am

Coalf and JB were very obviously heated in discussion about topics of the lore and it ended with "If you think you can do better you can apply", which is something that's been repeated a few times to JB's numerous critics...

And this is acceptible? "Do it yourself" is a good deflection? No, it isn't.

It's volunteer work I understand that but in the end you're doing it because you want to and if you're not willing to listen to someone and just going to bat him off with "Do it yourself" well at that point, why are you doing it?

If I cook and someone dislikes my cooking, I can't tell them to do it themselves, I have to judge if the dislike is warranted or unwarranted and continue from that.

Scheveningen wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:28 am

few times to JB's numerous critics who funny enough, turned out most of the time to be lore devs and churned out a lot of work!

Here I am, rock you like a hurricane.

Scheveningen wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:28 am

But ultimately this seems to be boiling down to a showdown of ego. You both want honest feedback but neither of you are going to like it in the event it comes and strikes a proper chord in the both of you. I can talk about ego as well, by the way, considering I'd do the exact same thing given the situation. It's a very human thing to want to stretch stuff out like this on the basis of defending one's own principles.

I beg the differ, I've seemed to receieve quite large amount of criticism which is right.

I do act a bit too brash and perhaps dislike vaurca more than is healthy, I've even laughed at Conspiir already before i realized that yes he's kinda right, being a Lore Manager is not only about being responsible for others but also for yourself and what you say, I'll have to grow up if I want to take that position without becoming a hypocritical satire of what I hope to remove.

I do have no real idea of the happenings behind the wall of staff, but the fact is as an outside observe it looks like a mess.

I do have no real experience, yet everyone who ever joins is a lore writer inheritly also has no experience.

And I do admit a lot of lore points I make are simply, subjective, my own opinions on points.

[AllyBearsley]

While it seems some people may be thinking this thread is somehow a bad thing, it has given me a lot to think about. It should give people things to think about. The point isn't that Coalf wants to unanimously usurp Jackboot's of his power, but instead a thread to start discussion. I think this is a fine thread to do it. It makes a statement and sends a clear message. It makes a useless, idle threat something that matters and punishes someone for simply doing it.

And since some of you like to ping me so much about the wiki. Remember I started work on the wiki with literally no experience. I was jeered before I applied. Now I am manager of it. Now the wiki is an actual team of people. Now the wiki is improving.

[Coalf]

I'm not a man of many words, and to be quite fair, I never have been. After reading through this thread in full, re-reading it, and then talking about it with others on the Discord, I've come to this belief.

Oh shit sorry Brutish I missed you there.

Coalf, you're a fantastic guy, you've been here for a while - longer than me, surely -- but I don't think that makes you qualified to shoot straight for Head Lore Master. If there were a normal Lore Developer application? Absolutely, I would support this, you have great ideas and have talked about how you would go about inputting them.

I hate to do this, but Aboshehab is now a headmin for longer than he was a mod or admin. Nobody really questioned that and it turned out beatifuly, Abosh is an amazing head administrator and I admit I would have fucked up on MANY ooc things in which he himself has shined brightly.

But he had no experience either did he?

Still I know it's hard to trust me with this and thus I try my best to answer all the feedback I get and aknowledge it.

And as I said, while I dislike some of the lore I have to concede to the fact it's subjective, the lore I don't like tends to be disliked by me becaue that's not personaly a thing I would have done and is impossible to change unless I literally steal someones job.

So I went for the jugular.

 

But you didn't. And personally, I don't think it's acceptable to shoot up to a position that's already being held by the likes of Jackboot, who does just as much work for the server as the next guy. That's why I can't give the nod to this.

Then how am I supposed to change something I dislike about a species if I can't moderate that species?

How can I change the meta narrative if I'm not in charge of it?

By screaming my opinions in Moderator Discord instead of Public Aurora Discord? Why should my suggestions in Lore_chat be taken less seriously than in lore-staff-chat? Because I don't have a purple name? Because i'm not a friend of someone? Because I don't have authority?

The fact is people are being taken at face value as of now until they start getting involved personaly and PMing people or making a fuss about it as I'm doing now.

If someone wants another player banned, they make a ban request.

I want someone replaced but not banned, well what do I make? Staff Complaint so we can slander each other for 10 pages and get it locked?

Ban Request? I don't want Jackboots gone I just don't want him as a manager.

Thus an application.

[Coalf]

While it seems some people may be thinking this thread is somehow a bad thing, it has given me a lot to think about. It should give people things to think about. The point isn't that Coalf wants to unanimously usurp Jackboot's of his power, but instead a thread to start discussion. I think this is a fine thread to do it. It makes a statement and sends a clear message. It makes a useless, idle threat something that matters and punishes someone for simply doing it.

Ally I would lie if I said this is done for completely selfless reasons, partially I DO want to be a Lore Staff Moderator, while it's not something I'm going to crack a cold one about, it's something I would like to happen and would be very happy if it did.

[AllyBearsley]

I didn't mean to paint you as a saint, and I refuse to go on spouting arm chair psychiatric metric at you. Did I ever doubt you wouldn't' take the opportunity if it was offered? No. Did I think this was done purely out of the kindness of your heart? No. Do I think this thread should exist? Yes, in one form or another. Do I think it's been good so far? Yes.

[Coalf]

I didn't mean to paint you as a saint, and I refuse to go on spouting arm chair psychiatric metric at you. Did I ever doubt you wouldn't' take the opportunity if it was offered? No. Did I think this was done purely out of the kindness of your heart? No. Do I think this thread should exist? Yes, in one form or another. Do I think it's been good so far? Yes.

 

Thank you for your further explanation and clarification.

I myself wanted to clarify to EVERYONE ,this message isn't just for Ally, that I don't consider myself a martyr angel who has come here to purge the Belzebub called Jackboots and throw him off his throne in hell to save all the sinners.

It's just as selfish as it is selfless.

[incognitojesus]

I would actually support this. I know Coalf cares deeply about the direction of the server's lore, and he's not afraid to be critical in a constructive way. I feel as though people are misconstruing memes for something more than what it is, memes. Hell, even Jackboot posts memes in lore channel. Regardless, I think it's a known fact that I have quite a few grievances with the way lore is run here, some of which have been mentioned in this very thread. I believe Coalf could help this, and if not, he's definitely done something with this application. I'm glad to know that there are people willing to put in the effort to make a change, although I myself long saw it as a lost cause with the climate of lore development here, particularly because Jackboot is at the helm. Note, this isn't a statement saying that Jackboot is a bad lore developer, but I believe it's time for a change.

[Coalf]

Thank you IncognitoJesus for trusting me.

Now, let me explain something.

Okay over multiple discord messages I have come to this rumor that I plan to kick staff out and replace them with my own.

This is nothing but false.

As of now I do have my eyes set on people who I think are slacking in their jobs and could be doing more, that's true.

YET I don't plan to set them off, I plan to inquire WHY this is happening and if it's properly explained and within reason I will leave them to it, no trouble.

I don't have issues with people being busy IRL, I have issues with people holding onto their seat just because they want to.

This is exactly one of the reasons UT sunk, because people are unwilling to let go of things, I don't want that to happen here.

I don't plan to kick people out, my whole point is to EXPAND the fucking lore team not thin it down even more than it already is, that's completely against what I'm trying to gosh darn accomplish people.

[DatBerry]

Being a lore manager doesn't necessarily require you to be a lore writer, I don't think most movie directors are actors and what not, though the argument that Coalf doesn't know the inner works of the Lore team holds true, I don't think it'll be too hard for him to coup with them, he's invested enough in lore and the player base.

The second point is important for a lore manager, if you're managing lore for a game it should be aimed at the player base most of the time and not a select few who like to sit around and talk about the slums in a place they never actually go to, (no offense to whomever does that) but there is a valid point that there should be more engagement for the majority of the crew, lore should be in their face, and their actions should have consequences due to said lore; they shouldn't need to go rummaging through news articles to actually know what's happening in the world.

Lore not effecting crew is not fully the lore team's responsibility though, they will need the dev team's help to have any real content added that doesn't feel patched on.

However that's just my opinion and maybe jackboot would call me a "hardcore ICer", but I think the lore team has improved compared to 2 years ago(?) in regards to involving the station crew.

I haven't had much direct interactions with jackboot besides when I applied for unathi, where he gave me some good criticism but the ending of his post suggested he was going to deny it if it wasn't for the feedback on his first post on the application, as in, if it wasn't for the feedback he wouldn't have given me the chance to make adjustments which weren't exactly major. anyhow, this is only a minor thing, but I've noticed that in the player discord he doesn't put effort to retort player's criticism or discontent with the lore or the way the lore team operates. Sure they're not always the brightest complaints or the nicest wording but neither does JB put any effort in making them feel that the lore team cares and that they'll just continue doing what they were going with. perhaps this is why no one comes to you with criticism?

That said, Jackboot does take criticism into account, he just fails to portray that he cares publicly , I assume they are worn out from all the years of being the lore manager; for example, while showing he was adamant about the psionics arc, it seems like those plans were canceled. So unless there were some backdoor wrist twisting from skull, JB did listen and change his plans.

Tl;DR: I think Jackboots' social skills are worn out from all the random salt players bring him over the years and could use a break, or work on showing the player base he actually cares.

anyway back on about coalf, he's one of the people who will instantly notice when they make a mistake on their own, they're always critical of the team they're in and of themselves too, and are not shy from bringing tough topics into discussion, it seems most of the people who think coalf just "memes" have only interacted with him sporadically or haven't had a serious discussion with him one on one.

While I haven't seen Coalf "leading" he has the quality to be a leader, or at least grow into one.

Overall I don't have strong feelings about this application, I think Coalf can help lead a positive change in lore, but I also think the lore team can improve on it's own, in the end it's up to skull so whatever, though I'm more inclined to see a refresh in leadership.

P.S: I think you answered this already but do you think you can handle BOTH moderating and managing lore? it can become very daunting.

[Coalf]

Being a lore manager doesn't necessarily require.....

Being a lore manager doesn't necessarily require you to be a lore writer, I don't think most movie directors are actors and what not, though the argument that Coalf doesn't know the inner works of the Lore team holds true, I don't think it'll be too hard for him to coup with them, he's invested enough in lore and the player base.

The second point is important for a lore manager, if you're managing lore for a game it should be aimed at the player base most of the time and not a select few who like to sit around and talk about the slums in a place they never actually go to, (no offense to whomever does that) but there is a valid point that there should be more engagement for the majority of the crew, lore should be in their face, and their actions should have consequences due to said lore; they shouldn't need to go rummaging through news articles to actually know what's happening in the world.

Lore not effecting crew is not fully the lore team's responsibility though, they will need the dev team's help to have any real content added that doesn't feel patched on.

However that's just my opinion and maybe jackboot would call me a "hardcore ICer", but I think the lore team has improved compared to 2 years ago(?) in regards to involving the station crew.

I haven't had much direct interactions with jackboot besides when I applied for unathi, where he gave me some good criticism but the ending of his post suggested he was going to deny it if it wasn't for the feedback on his first post on the application, as in, if it wasn't for the feedback he wouldn't have given me the chance to make adjustments which weren't exactly major. anyhow, this is only a minor thing, but I've noticed that in the player discord he doesn't put effort to retort player's criticism or discontent with the lore or the way the lore team operates. Sure they're not always the brightest complaints or the nicest wording but neither does JB put any effort in making them feel that the lore team cares and that they'll just continue doing what they were going with. perhaps this is why no one comes to you with criticism?

That said, Jackboot does take criticism into account, he just fails to portray that he cares publicly , I assume they are worn out from all the years of being the lore manager; for example, while showing he was adamant about the psionics arc, it seems like those plans were canceled. So unless there were some backdoor wrist twisting from skull, JB did listen and change his plans.

Tl;DR: I think Jackboots' social skills are worn out from all the random salt players bring him over the years and could use a break, or work on showing the player base he actually cares.

anyway back on about coalf, he's one of the people who will instantly notice when they make a mistake on their own, they're always critical of the team they're in and of themselves too, and are not shy from bringing tough topics into discussion, it seems most of the people who think coalf just "memes" have only interacted with him sporadically or haven't had a serious discussion with him one on one.

While I haven't seen Coalf "leading" he has the quality to be a leader, or at least grow into one.

Overall I don't have strong feelings about this application, I think Coalf can help lead a positive change in lore, but I also think the lore team can improve on it's own, in the end it's up to skull so whatever, though I'm more inclined to see a refresh in leadership.

 

P.S: I think you answered this already but do you think you can handle BOTH moderating and managing lore? it can become very daunting.

I think it's actually one of the, if not THE best setup.

This way I have quick and easy access to staff and am forced to interact with players themselves, this way I can take criticism and ideas in very quickly and spot when something in lore could interact badly with the rules cough bound drones cough

Additionaly it also means i'll be staying active and be able to monitor activity of both teams and players, so I can say when a player doesn't play the game and just complains for the sake of complaining and when a player plays actively and has constant issue with something that is actually present.

Addendum: And if it does become too much? I'll quit and give it to someone else.

[Azande]

I don't like Jackboot that much based on experiences with him, but he's done a lot of great things for our lore and server, and while he irritates the ever-living fuck out of me sometimes, he's a great person, he's very kind - and very experienced at being our loremaster.

This discussion on concerns about lore are great though.

[Coalf]

This has started slowly moving into complaint territory starting with Berry and I'd like to remind everyone this is an application, questions are more than welcome.