[Resolved] Complaint On DasFox

Personal Details such as ip's and ckeys of non involved people were filtered out, admins have access to view full logs and can do so if needed

BYOND Key: QueenOfyugoslavia,Scheveningen,Armory

Game ID: bWs-ahUr

Player Byond Key: DasFox

Staff involved: Yonnimer

Reason for complaint: DasFox without any interaction at all, begin to come on the station with evandorf (Who was handled by Yonni) blew and vented medical aswell as most of the main level with grenades, ordered the execution of a command staff member, refused to follow Dominate orders as its "Utter crap" aswell as executing myself when I attempted to flee from them and then stood down, being shot and then executed on the ground. The player has a history of hostile interactions with people via ooc and looc, aswell as skirting around rules to be able to act in a certain way against antags that they do not enjoy there gimmick, along with multiple instance's of similer issues noted down as ERT and as antag. Overall, I feel they are offering a toxic element, being unable to keep calm in issues and reverting to a logic of "I know better then you".

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yes, no note or warning was applied

Approximate Date/Time: 9:06 PM PST

[05:46:44] bWs-ahUr OOC: (LOCAL) S/Tpr Lawrence/DasFox : You didn't evne bother RPing it.

[05:47:33] bWs-ahUr ADMIN: HELP: DasFox/(S/Tpr Lawrence): So uh. I just got NoRP dominated by the HOS. Do you still want me to do the dominate or are you fine with me ignoring it because it's utter crap? Just stood there and dominated

[05:47:39] bWs-ahUr OOC: (LOCAL) S/Tpr Lawrence/DasFox : WEll I'm ahelping it, but.

[05:47:45] bWs-ahUr OOC: (LOCAL) S/Tpr Lawrence/DasFox : We'll see what admins have to say.

[05:50:53] bWs-ahUr OOC: (LOCAL) S/Tpr Lawrence/DasFox : I'm gonna give it another thirty or so seconds.

There interaction with me and killing me after being glared and fleeing.

[05:59:58] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

[05:59:59] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : screams!

[05:59:59] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : Ynnefer Killinski screams!

[05:59:59] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

[06:00:00] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

06:00:02] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : Ynnefer Killinski screams!

[06:00:03] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

[06:01:58] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : screams!

[06:01:58] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : Ynnefer Killinski screams!

[06:01:59] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

[06:02:02] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : screams!

[06:02:02] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : Ynnefer Killinski screams!

[06:02:02] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

[06:02:03] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

[06:02:03] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

[06:02:18] bWs-ahUr SAY: melodicvoid/(Trekker) : (Ceti Basic) detained

[06:02:20] bWs-ahUr SAY: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) : (Ceti Basic) Dead.

Essentialy, I feel Dasfox is in general, a very bad sport with antags, if they disagree with it, there is always a comment in dsay about it and when they do get the chance to engage with antags they dislike, they go out of there way to demolish it

I was the HOS this round. I don't believe I ever saw DasFox playing this round up until ERT being called, just to clarify ahead of time. I did ask around as to whether they were observing for the majority of the round, and it would seem as if DasFox had been observing up until ERT was called.

Due to a lack of precedent regarding Embracing loyalty implanted staff, I ahelped about it and got it squared away that it was okay to act like a typical antagonist. My overall gimmick was that my character adopted traits and goals of their sire and my character would attempt to assist the vampire that sired mine, in which case, that goal was to sire the entirety of the command staff and also take the station personnel as cattle.

Eventually the issues escalated into full-blown combat due to some miscommunications of intention and that the captain suspended my HOS because of the circumstances involved prior to my character getting turned into a vampire.

So the ERT deploys, they open fire guns blazing under the direction of DasFox who was the apparent specialist medical trooper. Kitted out with the typical injectors and also armed with a rather large array of ballistic weaponry which was pretty odd considering that they were responding to an internal crew issue and not the likes of mercenaries, you'd think they would want to reduce kills down to a minimum by packing energy weaponry. Apparently DasFox instructed Evandorf to pack frag grenades, too? It was pretty interesting to face-off ERT that were packed with fragmentation grenades to deal with supposedly compromised command staff with intent to kill rather than capture.

[mention]AmoryBlaine[/mention] as Daniel Carmichael gets gunned down rather quickly, and his dominate command to the lesser trooper failed to function despite me seeing him whisper it out. While I adminhelped this, it was testified as a bug and the trooper didn't see it.

Later down the line I get held up by DasFox's heavily kitted out "medical" trooper and I already have a resort to deal with them. I Dominate them easily and instruct them to let me go, insisting to them through reasonable justification that my character was innocent. One cannot argue against a dominate command, either, it is a paranormal will overpowering another, it's more akin to a Jedi mind trick than it is a persuasion attempt. You cannot counter-rationalize a Dominate command, you are required by roleplay to execute it, otherwise the Dominate ability is completely useless.

DasFox ignores the dominate command because they supposedly didn't get an answer back from a moderator heavily caught up with the issue that DasFox led the ERT absolutely horribly and set a terrible precedent for what they were intent on doing as soon as they spawned in. They have me captured anyway, disobeying their dominate command to have me let go.

Later on, I'm dragged to departures and I try to plan out my escape. I'm not terribly successful as I don't get very far with veilstepping. Dasfox then authorizes to execute me, a command staff member, even as I was still handcuffed and I was still back in the hands of the ERT trooper.

I die after a long confrontation and ghost over to the RD, played by Drago. She's being held up and then suddenly DasFox starts shooting at her. It wasn't a reflexive shot either. The RD did not even fight back, they attempted to run after being shot for doing nothing wrong and still got filled with bullets. That's two command staff members that got executed by an ERT trooper. Not a leading trooper, but a specialist only responsible for acting in the stead as the squad medic and assisting the station with any medical issues. Dasfox and the other trooper ran around turning the station into Antag Columbine.

My personal verdict, as a player? Staff should remove this person from the server. They have, according to Doc who chipped in on DasFox's CCIA app, a very long history of validhunting and escalating to gross degrees and ignoring very simple roleplay courtesies part of the Aurora culture ever since I joined the server. DasFox only started playing again early this month after quitting in March, showing a very nonchalant display for the rules and roleplay in general while still going so far as having a history of harassing people in deadchat, ghosting around to nag people in LOOC over completely minor problems, and otherwise showing a completely lack of respect and consideration for other players and their experience in playing here.

And they come back from a hiatus, say to have supposedly changed and yet all of their behavior attached to them just seems really familiar to the Dasfox some people recognize from March? No way. We gave kids like Plahunter and Coolbc more chances for worse. Never again.

I believe the one mod that could handle this was really ill prepared to deal with a single ERT trooper causing so much damage in this round. Decision upon decision made by DasFox as the psuedo leader made things much more complicated and worse off for the state of the round.

[mention]AmoryBlaine[/mention] if you would also chip in, I'd appreciate it.

I got to say, it'd have been nicer if when we were hiding in the OR we were given more time to react and do stuff. I yelled wait to get me time to dominate, but I was also surprised we were being gunned down so quickly. I got fragged twice while unarmed at that point, I think. Though I did fire twice at the ERT with slugs beforehand. Either or would have been nicer to see other stuff going on than what happened, especially considering there were two of you present and three active. All armed to the teeth.

I'd simply like to say, given what we were told going into the situation, this wasn't problematic. While I disagreed with Schev standing there silently to dominate me without any interaction with me holding a gun to him, I moved past it when I got no response. I didn't order an execution, I gave an order to fire on someone who had an all access card after a dominate made its way. They willingly complied with the other trooper, which was fine and all. I was dominated to believe they were innocent at that time. But I'd done my part, I'd let them go and stopped aiming at them. Evandorf detained them and took them. It wasn't my action and I didn't violate it.

Regarding the frag grenades, that wasn't my decision. I was going to leave you in crit and focus on the other hostile in the room, [mention]AmoryBlaine[/mention] , but I couldn't do that when you got shrapnel-killed by Evandorf. Which, I didn't have control over that one. My goal wasn't to instantly kill you and I didn't prime that grenade.

Furthermore, I was only told you'd escape. I wasn't, at all, told you were back in cuffs or re-detained [mention]Scheveningen[/mention] . I was simply told 'They escaped', So my order to shoot was just that. I presumed with your all-access card you had you were making a break for a firearm of some kind or attempting to hide. If I'd known you were still, at any point during this, detained and back in custody I wouldn't have ordered anything.

Also, regarding the RD: Yes. I aimed at them when I walked in on them attacking (Quite literally biting the head of) someone in critical health. They complied, then flashed both me and the engineer. We followed, and I aimed. They then walked towards me after my requests for them to get on the ground, when prompted my first shots. They then proceeded to stand in a corner for about a minute bleeding out, so I ordered the Engineer to cuff them. Where they then continued by trying to run away, still green and not human-looking. (Did I mention they had glowing marks around their head visibly? I was ICly under the assumption they were an experiment. Which means they were property, until I read the ID after their death. They didn't say a word to me at all in this engagement, outside of a single emote telling me they did in fact let go of someone when I didn't notice it.)

Regarding my 'array of weaponry', I was only carrying the Bullpup and a few magazines. I had a webbing vest, and no other weapons besides a mounted energy gun. We were told that Security was compromised entirely on our arrival, I didn't order anyone to take anything beyond 'You might want to bring a bullpup. If noone grabs the second one, I'll take it.' Nowhere did I order anyone to bring frag grenades. If Evandorf told you I ordered him to do so, he's not being truthful. He did comment he had a single grenade in his underslung, which I said 'okay' to. Nothing further regarding what he had on him beyond the canon in his suit.

Secondary post; regarding 'executed on the ground'. This isn't true. I was firing a three-round-burst rifle at you while you were running away. You wouldn't have been on the ground until you died, as you were hulked from lack of blood. Furthermore, that's not the entire post. If you're going to include logs, instead of starting where I fired, why don't you start at where I began aiming at you and the posts regarding you? That's not fair to me, or the other people involved where you purposely attempt to maneuver it in your own favor.

I'd simply like to say, given what we were told going into the situation, this wasn't problematic. While I disagreed with Schev standing there silently to dominate me without any interaction with me holding a gun to him, I moved past it when I got no response. I didn't order an execution, I gave an order to fire on someone who had an all access card after a dominate made its way. They willingly complied with the other trooper, which was fine and all. I was dominated to believe they were innocent at that time. But I'd done my part, I'd let them go and stopped aiming at them. Evandorf detained them and took them. It wasn't my action and I didn't violate it.

 

You purposefully skirted around a dominate command instead of stepping in to stop my detainment. This is the equivalent of lawyering laws as an AI. If your character believed mine innocent, why did you let the other trooper restrain me?

Don't lie about your equipment either. You guys both had at least 5 frag grenades between you two. Evandorf tossed at least 3 at me on the surface. Amory counted two (one from the medical equipment and another in the surgery room where you also caused a breach). Why the hell is a medical trooper carrying ballistic firearms to deal with an internal crew issue where command staff are supposedly compromised?

"Shoot with ballistics and leave them in crit" is not a viable means of detainment. That is not what security is supposed to do. That is not what ERT are supposed to do. That is what validhunting garbage does to end the round the quick and bloody way.

You were the ranking ERT member. You were giving out the orders and were the effective leader of the team. You must also take responsibility for your subordinate, because you were supposed to be the one giving out instructions.

 

Furthermore, I was only told you'd escape. I wasn't, at all, told you were back in cuffs or re-detained @Scheveningen . I was simply told 'They escaped', So my order to shoot was just that. I presumed with your all-access card you had you were making a break for a firearm of some kind or attempting to hide. If I'd known you were still, at any point during this, detained and back in custody I wouldn't have ordered anything.

 

I was handcuffed the whole time until I lost enough usable blood to hulk myself. By the time the ERT trooper started shooting me and attempted to execute me, I took a couple hits and glared them to start running. And it was long after I kept running around while restrained that I could mount an effort to strike back since I had a lot of ammunition poured down-range my way and not a lot of time to do anything.

It's ridiculous to assert you weren't responsible for anything that happened this round.

 

(Did I mention they had glowing marks around their head visibly? I was ICly under the assumption they were an experiment. Which means they were property, until I read the ID after their death. They didn't say a word to me at all in this engagement, outside of a single emote telling me they did in fact let go of someone when I didn't notice it.)

 

Two admissions that you weren't paying attention. For a game that's half the game port screen and the other half the text screen to tell you what's going on, it's shocking to see that you make not only one mistake in reading context but two.

I wasn't told this, Shev. I was only told you'd escaped. My order was presumed you were out of cuffs and gone, as in poof. We watched Carmichael do this before when we shot at him. We didn't know if you could or not, and that proved it to me that you could, hence my order. I didn't know you were, at any point, detained again. I'm not saying ignorance is a reason to completely excuse it, but how was I supposed to know if I wasn't told?

You complied with the other trooper. If you were innocent, what do you have to lose by complying? Absolutely nothing. That's exactly how I saw it. That's exactly how Security deals with it. 'If you're innocent, lets prove it. You've nothing to lose by complying in that case.' You're only making matters worse by resisting and adding a charge. Even if the first one is illegitimate. That's how the law works, you know. I don't see that as skirting around the dominate command.

I had absolutely no frag grenades on me. I didn't know he took the entire box. I *Only knew* he had a single grenade in his underslung. That's it. You can argue this all you like, but I'm physically unable to tell you I knew about it when I didn't. frag grenades was overkill because it's much easier to catch people in the crossfire, I thought it was a last resort and only a single grenade. I didn't even have my underslung loaded.

You complied with the other trooper. If you were innocent, what do you have to lose by complying? Absolutely nothing. That's exactly how I saw it. That's exactly how Security deals with it. 'If you're innocent, lets prove it. You've nothing to lose by complying in that case.' You're only making matters worse by resisting and adding a charge. Even if the first one is illegitimate. That's how the law works, you know. I don't see that as skirting around the dominate command.

 

You're justifying in-character execution, despite that I didn't even hurt the trooper. I was right near them after they got ahold of me again and they said that "I got them again", and then shortly after, "Okay" into their radio. They then said "Sorry" directly to me and proceeded to attempt to execute me. They succeeded because it takes two minutes to bust out of handcuffs, time I didn't have until I ran out of blood to get hulked. This shows that they told you I got captured again but you still made the call to execute me.

 

I had absolutely no frag grenades on me. I didn't know he took the entire box. I *Only knew* he had a single grenade in his underslung. That's it. You can argue this all you like, but I'm physically unable to tell you I knew about it when I didn't. frag grenades was overkill because it's much easier to catch people in the crossfire, I thought it was a last resort and only a single grenade. I didn't even have my underslung loaded.

 

You brought only ballistics and you instructed your other trooper to bring ballistics. What do you think people can gauge from your actual intent here?

I didn't get the message of 'I have them again' in my chat. If I did, I wouldn't have ordered it. The issue comes with, even if it's there, it doesn't always appear for certain people. I have this problem, and I'm fairly certain everyone does at times. If it did come through, which I'm 95% sure it didn't, I do apologize. Yes, that's on me. But my argument is hinged from my point of view. My defense of myself is based entirely on what I saw and didn't see. I can't tell you any more honestly than that.

We brought ballistics because we were told, very specifically, the HOS and security were attempting to murder the captain. That's how it went down, and that's how we prepared. Being as though the Captain is someone /critically/ important, I believed it justified. We had nonlethal (at least, I did) weapons, but based on the actions taken when we arrived I kept my Egun on lethal.

My defense of myself is based entirely on what I saw and didn't see. I can't tell you any more honestly than that.

 

That is not good enough. You were taking point the entire round as ERT, the closest thing to an actual leader, yet every facet of the round that involved you went from bad to worse. That is not taking good enough initiative to be successful for the sake of roleplay, far from it, in fact.

The end result of that round is that your actions led to two heads of staff being executed. From what I saw, the RD was also handcuffed. And I was handcuffed and trying to run from the rabid trooper who had apparently packed an entire armory fit for dealing with mercenaries.

You joined in a role with incredible amounts of round impact and responsibility and your actions singlehandedly devastated what was otherwise a decent round.

If my own perspective on how I act in a round isn't good enough, what is? Am I meant to act entirely in a way that's acceptable to you? I was unfair to Amory in allowing a frag grenade to go off on him in crit, and he couldn't do anything about it. I contacted and apologized for it. I wasn't specific with it, but we moved on at least. Or at least I think so.

Beyond this, moving back to your comment, I did misread. And I do have logs to prove he didn't say 'We have her again'.

[05:58:37] bWs-ahUr SAY: /(Tpr Carolina) : (Ceti Basic) She tried to escape.

[05:58:43] bWs-ahUr SAY: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) : (Ceti Basic) Kill'r.

[05:58:51] bWs-ahUr SAY: /(Tpr Carolina) : (Ceti Basic) Roger.

 

I got this from Coalf, who says there's absolutely nothing past 'tried to escape'. I read over it, while interacting with Yugo. Which, yes, caused me to be hasty in reading it, I read 'she tried and escaped.'. I do apologize for that, I wasn't intending to have to multitask a prisoner and what I was doing via the Troopers. It's the reason I didn't specifically go L/Tpr. I didn't /want/ to be in command, just noone else was. So yes, this is entirely my fault for giving the order. My misunderstanding here.

However, Here's something for Drago.

 

[05:59:32] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) used glare to stun /(Trekker) (INTENT: HELP) (JMP)

[05:59:32] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) used glare to stun dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) (INTENT: HELP) (JMP)

[05:59:37] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : twitches violently.

[05:59:37] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : S/Tpr Lawrence twitches violently.

 

They then went down the ladder and blocked us, so I used the catwalk to go down and began this, aiming as I say it.

 

[05:59:52] bWs-ahUr SAY: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) : (Ceti Basic) D-Don't f-f-fuck'n m-m-move.

 

However, disregarding my directive, while aimed at, she begins moving once more and gets shot.

 

[05:59:58] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

[05:59:59] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : screams!

[05:59:59] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : Ynnefer Killinski screams!

[05:59:59] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

[06:00:00] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

[06:00:02] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : screams!

[06:00:02] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : Ynnefer Killinski screams!

[06:00:03] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

 

They then stand there, silently, waiting for an ahelp in hulked out mode. During this time, nothing happens and we sit silently. Until I speak with Trekker, who went to attempt to cuff them, and instead they run, getting them shot more as I was in aim mode still on their person. I ran out of ammunition, reloaded, and see they ran into the main hallway. So I begin firing down the main hallway, in turn killing them. You seeing them in cuffs happened after they were dead, as when they fell over the Engineer cuffed them.

 

[06:00:14] Ahelp from Yugo

[06:00:14] bWs-ahUr SAY: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) : (Ceti Basic) F-F-Floor.

[06:00:25] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : shivers.

[06:00:25] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : S/Tpr Lawrence shivers.

[06:00:34] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : blinks rapidly.

[06:00:34] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : S/Tpr Lawrence blinks rapidly.

[06:00:34] bWs-ahUr SAY: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) : (Ceti Basic) Get on.

[

[06:00:36] bWs-ahUr SAY: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) : (Ceti Basic) The floor.

[06:00:39] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : shivers.

[06:00:39] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : S/Tpr Lawrence shivers.

[06:00:56] bWs-ahUr SAY: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) : (Ceti Basic) She's gonna bleed out, get'r down with stuns.

[06:01:12] Communication between yoni and yugo

[06:01:15] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : blinks rapidly.

[06:01:15] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : S/Tpr Lawrence blinks rapidly.

[06:01:17] bWs-ahUr SAY: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) : (Ceti Basic) ... She's standin'.

[06:01:35] Communication between Yoni and Yugo

[06:01:42] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : screams!

[06:01:42] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : Ynnefer Killinski screams!

[06:01:49] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : shivers.

[06:01:49] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: S/Tpr Lawrence/dasfox : S/Tpr Lawrence shivers.

[06:01:58] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : screams!

[06:01:58] bWs-ahUr EMOTE: Ynnefer Killinski/queenofyugoslavia : Ynnefer Killinski screams!

 

After screaming more, mostly due to the shrapnel of all the bullets I believe (as I have shot them several times, might be the pain too.)

 

[06:01:59] bWs-ahUr ATTACK: dasfox/(S/Tpr Lawrence) shot (/obj/item/projectile/bullet/rifle/a556) queenofyugoslavia/(Ynnefer Killinski) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

 

This begins them running away, to the cryodorms on the main level where they go into the hallway.

These things were purposely left out of the log, because they weren't relevant to Yugo. However, they're entirely relevant. I didn't simply kill them after them glaring at me. They purposely made it seem like I immediately got up and shot them, which wasn't the case. Not in the slightest.

Note, while I did provide the logs I am not taking over the complaint. I just happened to be online and on server when DasFox was around.

Further all OOC/LOOC/AHELPS were censored along with all Ckeys not relevant to this complaint. DasFox did not receive the entire server log.

I played Razev that round. I didn't directly witness the ERT besides their storming into medical as I was critically injured. However, I will explain what I witnessed this round in hopes of clearing up one or two things if anyone has some questions.

The round started off pretty standard, nothing much happening. I believe Carmichael was sucking blood in the various tunnels secretly. Medical was holding a blood donation drive since so many people came in with a lack of it. After a while, I hear that the HoS had been attacked. Ran to the compactor and found that the HoS had sucked blood from Carmichael and was now green. They're claiming everything is fine so I drop the issue and head off, but have to attend to them in medical per captain's orders for examination.

Schev is released and walks off to who knows where. Carmichael asks to see the CMO and they agree. Gonzales asks me to stand outside his office just in case. I'm standing outside until I hear a baton activate. Borg/AI opens the door and I find Carmichael standing infront of Gonzales, who was backed up against a wall. Gonzales rushes to me before Carmichael says 'cover your ears'. He then explodes all the windows and lights using the screech and teleports away. I alert for backup, and watch. He then grabs Gonzales and starts sucking, I rush forward to baton him as he was actively attacking a command member now after blowing up stuff. However, he vamps Gonzales. I get Carmichael in cuffs, before Schev shows up.

Gonzales, now in a blood-hunger mode, is going around hitting walls down and trying to attack a CSI for blood. So I focus on him as Schev grabs the cuffed Carmichael and walks off. Later on, they're both back, with Carmichael now uncuffed. I make a note of it and she says 'he escaped'. An obvious lie since they were together. Anyway, I report it to the captain who asks them to the HoP's line. They hand over their ID, and the Captain informs them they were being suspended.

They say they'll regret that and instantly open fire with lethals, prompting us to retreat. Fast forward, we're held up in the captain's office organizing a Red Alert, before Carmichael and Shev run-in with shotguns, packing buckshot and slugs. We call an ERT and they open fire on us, causing internal bleeding for me due to a slug/buckshot to the groin. We bolt in and they run off for a bit. A borg comes in to help me, before they blow it up, causing more shrapnel damage to myself.

Eventually, they turn the RD as well, who then starts bashing into the room trying to kill us/open it up for them. A shootout occurs before the ERT arrives and I presume drove them from the bridge. Gonzales arrives and takes me to medical for help. However, Vira is outside the medical bay lobby. Gonzales tries to talk to her, but she ignores both him and me, and instead wordlessly dominates me to quote, 'rip the CMO to shreds'. A wordlessly, no RP kill order.

So, I attack Gonzales and he flees. Five minutes later I'm 'back to normal'. However, Carmichael passes by in medical, with ERT hot on his toes and I see him get gunned down in a gunfight. I did not get to witness the death of the HoS or RD however. All three people in the current complaint at some point over the round actively tried to murder the Captain and security. I'm not sure why they expected to get scotts free from the ERT who came to clean up the situation. But, that's my account of the events, as I saw them over the round. I was involved a fair bit up until the actual ERT arrived to take over.

Eventually, they turn the RD as well, who then starts bashing into the room trying to kill us/open it up for them. A shootout occurs before the ERT arrives and I presume drove them from the bridge. Gonzales arrives and takes me to medical for help. However, Vira is outside the medical bay lobby. Gonzales tries to talk to her, but she ignores both him and me, and instead wordlessly dominates me to quote, 'rip the CMO to shreds'. A wordlessly, no RP kill order.

 

This is absolutely untrue. I spoke to both of you and let you both in. I set you on Gonzalez with a Dominate command earlier because he was assisting the captain.

Eventually, they turn the RD as well, who then starts bashing into the room trying to kill us/open it up for them. A shootout occurs before the ERT arrives and I presume drove them from the bridge. Gonzales arrives and takes me to medical for help. However, Vira is outside the medical bay lobby. Gonzales tries to talk to her, but she ignores both him and me, and instead wordlessly dominates me to quote, 'rip the CMO to shreds'. A wordlessly, no RP kill order.

 

This is absolutely untrue. I spoke to both of you and let you both in. I set you on Gonzalez with a Dominate command earlier because he was assisting the captain.

I will have to double check with staff on the logs, but you didn't say a single thing outside of medical before the domination command popped up and you walked off. Wordlessly dominating me to murder the CMO wasn't very fair. Neither was instantly going for lethals in the HoP line or using slugs instantly in the captain's office, but I digress. I am merely giving my side of the events in hopes of clearing anything up for staff. I am not pointing fingers and saying anyone should be punished.

EDIT:

I talked to someone and got the logs, as seen below. You said about one, or two things, before giving a kill dominate order. Not pointing fingers or anything still, just clearing that part up.

 

I got instantly suspended by the captain and stripped of all my access because the captain thought I was suspicious.

Unfair actions stacked upon another, and it forced my hand in trying to still get some up-front conflict involved in the round.

Dominate is the exact reason that vampire gets any sense of relevance or power as an antagonist. I can't count on a set of hands the amount of times people have complained about antagonists using utility, abilities or gear to their advantage because it put them at a disadvantage and made them look worse than they actually are.

I do not 'play fair' as an antagonist, because I know security won't, because I know the captain wasn't about to, and I know that anyone that sits around ghosting in the lobby for their chance to play murderhobo squad doesn't play fair either. It defeats the point of being an antagonist if you are not willing or allowed to do whatever it takes to accomplish in-character goals. It is as if you expect an assassin to type out a long monologue before they kill their target. You shouldn't expect a subterfuge antagonist like a vampire to immediately reveal their intentions either, or to not use what they have at their disposal to use against other characters in the round for their own personal goals.

That aside, what the captain did or didn't do correctly is not the focus of this complaint. It is how the ERT geared in response to an internal threat, how they acted in response to an internal threat, and the rushdown tactics they employed to ensure everyone in the round that was an antagonist got killed. The captain pressed an "I win" button and fortuitously received mindless savages for ERT with ASPD with no regard for life or moral character at all. They ran in gunning down their threats as if they were elite commandos and did very little in the way of trying to get the least bloody outcome out of a situation. They're an Emergency Response team, not a special forces deathsquad, yet they kitted out like the latter.

I wanted to post a quick rundown of events from my point of view since I was letting DasFox take point through most of the ERT response.

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• [*] After joining the ERT, I moved to grab a redsuit. DasFox was making intial contact with station command. From the beginning we had reports that most if not all of security was compromised and that the Captain was besieged in his office.

[*] DasFox states to suit up and bring plenty of firepower. These are not the exact words they used and it might be good to check the logs since intent is important.

[*] I grab my redsuit, change out my laser module for the laser cannon module. I get a harness filled with C4. I get a belt with a baton, shield, two handcuffs, three frag grenades, and two clips for the bullpup. My suit comes with a built in grenade launcher with other non-lethal grenades, so I only loadup on frags in my belt. I also slot a frag in the bullpup. Additionally, while carrying the bullpup in hand but put an energy rifle on my back.

[*]We board the shuttle. DasFox makes an announcement to the station before we leave stating that security is compromised, station crew should immediately drop their weapons, and that any crew seen carrying weapons would be treated as hostile and fired upon along with all security personnel. I think this may have been a little over the top, but based on information we were getting from the Captain it seemed like there was a full scale mutiny going on.

[*] We arrive, move to the bridge. Trekker, our engie ERT falls back, due to having some trouble getting his jetpack working. We had moved into the command elevator shaft rather than calling the elevator and Trekker had fallen, although he did not break any thing.

[*] We meet the Captain in his office or at least it seems to be the Captain. He has Corvo's ID and is wearing the Captain's EVA suit. To be honest I don't remember what was said between DasFox and the Captain here. I was mostly concerned making sure Trekker was getting his jets working and didn't break anything. Possibly the captain told DasFox only that the ones attacking the bridge had gone to medical. Regardless we did not stay in the Captain's office long.

[*] Trekker is still lagging behind. I follow DasFox out of the bridge toward medical.

[*] We arrive in medical and spot Carmichael near the cryotubes. Since I was behind DasFox and Carmichael moved south, passing the elevator and moving past the CMO's office, I can only say I saw DasFox firing. Amory said earlier in this thread that he shot a few slugs as well.

[*] We chase Carmichael through medical, eventually following him to the OR where we see him and Vira (The HoS) taking cover behind a wall and the door.

[*] The door to the small room joining the ORs seems busted. DasFox tells me to blow it open. I do not remember the exact wording of the command, but it was such that it implied explosives and not a crowbar. I didn't have a crowbar on me at the time anyway.

[*] I use C4 and attach it to the door. Carmichael and the Head of Security fall back into the fore OR and we follow with DasFox taking point.

[*] I have no way of making a clean shot at Carmichael with DasFox in front of me but in the small OR space I see DasFox get his bullpup disarmed by Carmichael. Vira had moved to the Bottom left most corner of the fore OR. This is where I made my first mistake.

[*] I cycle my bullpup to grenade and move into the OR. I quickly fire the frag I had loaded over to the other side of the room near Carmichael and Vira. DasFox, having picked up his bullpup quickly falls back with me but gets cut by some shrapnel. They say they are fine and quickly heal themselves. I will readily admit that I did not remember the grenade timings had been changed. I also was not aware that the frag grenades would do so much damage. The walls were damaged and only open girders were between the room and the small 2x2 open area north of the OR. The windows to the main hall were also blown out.

[*] Carmichael was down at this point. Either in crit or dead. The shutters went down and when we got back into the room Vira was gone. She either walked out through the broken windows or used the red shade power.

[*] We followed Vira south. I did not see her, but apparently DasFox had because we entered the toilets and the middle one was bolted.

[*] About this time I was bwoiked about ignoring a dominate command. As I told Queen at the time, I did not see a command nor did anything pop up regarding it. In LooC people were saying it was a known bug.

[*] DasFox tells me to blow the door on the bathroom stall. I C4 it open and Vira is inside. DasFox aims the gun at her and nothing happens for a moment. Several seconds later DasFox states in LooC that "it" was cheap and that they were ahelping "it". I assume Vira used dominate on them when the door was blown open.

[*] There was a bit of snark exchanged back and forth in LooC at this point. Eventually DasFox says that the ahelp hadn't been answered. Vira is using the influence ability on me and I am getting messages like "You feel they are a good person." ect.

[*] I make mention to the other trooper that we should taker her in. I didn't want to kill another vamp using dominate and I was already being influenced so I ask her to disarm, she complies, I put cuffs on her and we start moving to the shuttle which had been called.

[*] We get to the surface sec checkpoint and DasFox tells me "keep working on this, I'll get the other."

[*] I keep the HoS moving towards the shuttle. It should be noted that at this point she had not been searched and only her carbine and energy pistol had been confiscated from when she willingly disarmed.

[*]We get to the shuttle and I move toward the holding cell. The HoS goes into red shade mode and floats back toward the station. I did not report in at this time but made a quick exclamation to those nearby and move off.

[*] I find Vira on the floor near the checkpoint, still cuffed. I shake her up and radio in "She tried to escape." As shown earlier in the thread, the response was "Kill her."

[*] I suppose at this point I had a choice and could have ignored the order and simply put her on the shuttle but the command didn't seem outrageous. She clearly had some kind of ability, was hostile, was reported to have attacked the Captain, and made multiple attempts to escape. I suppose in the end I complied with the order because the round was ending soon and I didn't have the means to contain her properly if she attempted another escape.

[*] I apologized to her and fired a three burst round, point blank to the head, right as she glared me down. She ran round the checkpoint and at some point she broke her cuffs. I'm not sure if taking damage had triggered a rage. I'm not super familiar with the vamp mechanics.

[*] I chased her around, firing through the glass when I could and threw a few more frags round corners. Eventually she went down.

[*] Radio'ed in about what to do with the body and took it back with me to the shuttle where I met up again with the other two EMT troopers.

So heres the specific dominate message that was issued to dasfox.

 

Scheveningen used dominate and issued the command of 'You know the head of security is innocent, you will let them go

 

So if i understand things correctly you where the leading trooper in this situation. you stopped aiming at the HoS but you still allowed the other ERT trooper to... arrest an innocent HoS? This seems sketchy even if i accept that you where "waiting on an ahelp". Which i do not. This is absolutely not a thing. If you have a problem with actions in the round you can always ahelp. Until a staff member deals with it you're expected to roll with it and keep playing.

 

You complied with the other trooper. If you were innocent, what do you have to lose by complying? Absolutely nothing. That's exactly how I saw it. That's exactly how Security deals with it. 'If you're innocent, lets prove it. You've nothing to lose by complying in that case.' You're only making matters worse by resisting and adding a charge. Even if the first one is illegitimate. That's how the law works, you know. I don't see that as skirting around the dominate command.

 

This reasoning seems a bit strange to me. You do not need innocence proven here. It is as proven to you as it could possibly be proven. A supernatural force has gripped your mind and assured you of such. The HoS was 100% innocent in that moment and i think to assert that it was reasonable to allow the other trooper to arrest them is negligence at best and powergaming at worst.

I will make a final decision by Tuesday morning but this seems to be the most glaring issue to me.

I lowered my aim at the time, simply giving up on the ahelp and continuing the round as to not keep everyone waiting for a while. While I didn't agree with a no interaction (Yes, no interaction at all) dominate on me, I went along with it. I'd let them go, they weren't being charged with anything, and they willingly to that point complied. They didn't question the other trooper's request whatsoever, if they did I'd have stepped in. We weren't arresting them, simply securing them as I'd stated we'd do at the start of our arrival. (I believe I stated we'd fire on them, thinking back, but that didn't seem quite fair anyway.)

I was operating on the assumption that a dominate works until the command is complete. As I'd let them go then, I presumed the dominate was complete. End of command, I've seen security do this to vampires. A dominated officer/warden lets someone go due to a dominate, they don't argue at all when they're immediately re-detained. But moving from this point, I originally had intended to have all of security in cuffs due to Command stating they were all guilty when we arrived. I didn't see it as problematic, even if they were innocent, to temporarily detain them until moved to the Odin where it's more than just me, a trooper, and an Engineer who nearly broke his legs in an elevator.

If my information there is wrong, I'm truly sorry. If it's warning or ban-worthy I won't argue it, I simply didn't realize it was so problematic at the time due to the situation. So while if I could go back and react differently I would, I'm unable to.

Beyond this, the complaint itself wasn't entirely about this, and I'd also like your view on the other half of the complaint [mention]Garnascus[/mention] , which was my reaction to the Research Director.

I lowered my aim at the time, simply giving up on the ahelp and continuing the round as to not keep everyone waiting for a while. While I didn't agree with a no interaction (Yes, no interaction at all) dominate on me, I went along with it. I'd let them go, they weren't being charged with anything, and they willingly to that point complied. They didn't question the other trooper's request whatsoever, if they did I'd have stepped in. We weren't arresting them, simply securing them as I'd stated we'd do at the start of our arrival. (I believe I stated we'd fire on them, thinking back, but that didn't seem quite fair anyway.)

I was operating on the assumption that a dominate works until the command is complete. As I'd let them go then, I presumed the dominate was complete. End of command, I've seen security do this to vampires. A dominated officer/warden lets someone go due to a dominate, they don't argue at all when they're immediately re-detained. But moving from this point, I originally had intended to have all of security in cuffs due to Command stating they were all guilty when we arrived. I didn't see it as problematic, even if they were innocent, to temporarily detain them until moved to the Odin where it's more than just me, a trooper, and an Engineer who nearly broke his legs in an elevator.

If my information there is wrong, I'm truly sorry. If it's warning or ban-worthy I won't argue it, I simply didn't realize it was so problematic at the time due to the situation. So while if I could go back and react differently I would, I'm unable to.

Beyond this, the complaint itself wasn't entirely about this, and I'd also like your view on the other half of the complaint @Garnascus , which was my reaction to the Research Director.

 

Its about your overall behavior as ERT during the round, this complaint is by schev, amory and myself about the collective issues

Yes, and these two events were the main issues. Which, were the only ones being addressed via your original complaint.

So, i will be dropping a week ban on dasfox as a result of this complaint. There where lots of issues with your behavior from this round but in my opinion the most damning ones are the incident with the dominate, the incident with ordering the execution of the HoS. The execution of the RD is also pretty suspect but from i am reading they seem to have been a hulk and using their vampire powers? Even still i cannot really buy "i thought they where an experiment". Its kind of on you to verify your targets.

I think not stepping in to stop the arrest of the HoS was explicitly against the dominate orders, you have absolutely no reason to allow the arrest of someone you deem to be innocent. Unfortunately given your LOOC comments i really do think this was just an excuse to attempt to lawyer the situation. Even if i am willing to believe a particular message did not show up for you it is very difficult for me to believe it just so happens to be the most critical message and one that would have prevented you from ordering the execution of the HoS. The most likely answer is you tunneled during the moment. An understandable reaction but one that does place you at fault.

I am dropping such a heavy ban because of your history of powergaming, validhunting and other shenanigans. I am not dropping a permanent because you've been quite clean for a while and your history of actual bans is surprisingly scarce. With all of this said i will consider this complaint resolved. I will lock and archive it within 24 hours.