Rushodan

I'm all in on this revamp of the security wing. I believe it will be a net benefit for gameplay and in my head makes more sense as to the old design. I think the points made have been valid and Avery's responses to criticism reasonable. Give new brig pls

You know what, that is all actually pretty reasonable. I still don't know if I like it but that was a well constructed argument and I guess if we decide to go through with it then fair enough. 👍

I don't really know what this achieves. Passing the command whitelist isn't about activity, it's about displaying your capability to play in a role that requires more trust due to round impact. I came and went fairly often (mostly due to real life impacts as my years have been insane with hospital stays, house moves etc) and have never had an issue re-integrating as I check to see what I missed out on. We already have a system for removing whitelists if people cannot adhere to the standard and there is no practical reason to change that. Ahelps and player reports do this job fine; setting a precedent to strip people of things they worked kinda hard on because they MIGHT not play properly on return seems short-sighted. Hard no from me, you are punishing people who have done nothing wrong on the basis they could change their standards upon returning. A note for them to get caught up is more than enough. I guess I am so against this because I can look back at my own situation some years ago and know I would have quit the Aurora if my whitelist was stripped for what I would have perceived to be zero reason.

I'm a scalie???

Honestly? End their trial early... Pretty much the gold standard when it comes to command. I've never seen them pull some dumb shit to 'win'. They always take actions to further the story or round engagement. A joy to interact with. They make some people i've seen in command look brand new in comparison. 11/10.

Pretty much this. Don't punish players that only really enjoy one aspect of the game. RNG does as RNG wants. That being said I don't personally care too much. If people overwhelmingly want this then go for it I guess

Trying is lying, not handling as I am involved. Speaking of I only have a few comments to make: I (the IPC Drug-Bot) was visibly lightly armed and decently armoured - @stev was not. It was communicated that I was working as a chemist/bodyguard for Big Farrim and never really drew my weapon on anyone to begin with. I don't know why it's been explained as us both coming in like mercs and intending to do damage. In fact, our first communication was with medical/the CMO and we just wanted to use their pharmacy. We even agreed to make some medical chems for them as payment as they were missing a proper chemist at the time. No hostilities were expressed at this time and things were going somewhat okay. We ended up running away and eventually were caught by security again. The next time we see them they are fully kitted out in the heaviest arms and armour that they can get from the armoury. They told us to stop but we kept on running, not really intending to get into a firefight as we just wanted our maint-drugs darn it. What I found weird was the sudden decision to go to lethals from this. We were pretty much gunned down in the shuttle with security firing first, with the only damage so far being an ioned IPC that engaged us. Security forced us into a situation where we either surrendered or died without any other options, effectively ending the round. I'm not sure why the Head of Security didn't issue out an Ion (from what I saw) to disable the bodyguard IPC if they believed me to be a serious threat and some carbines to tase Big Farram. Gunning us down in the shuttle with rifles seemed extremely bloodthirsty for the events that had transpired in round. I was debating ahelping it, but was so tired I just disconnected and went to bed. TL:DR? Farram wasn't in thicc armour, just in some casual clothes befitting of a stoner-cat. The robot was armed and armoured, but less-lethal measures like the Ion were not employed. (I'd argue lightly armed as tbh the Icelance gets three shots before you are done bud. No other weapons were on display.) We were not openly hostile with the station, but were firing-squadded in the shuttle for trying to get away. Not sure why that was needed and is the main reason I am commenting. The only person hurt was an ioned IPC, which happened because they shot at us. Additionally: Even if the Head of Security did not give the express order to have us shot, I would still give them a fair share of the responsibility. They are the one who permitted security to arm up with the heaviest kit which lead to them gunning down the antags.

Hello! After a careful review from @ShesTrying and myself we decided that no OOC action is needed in this case. Everything appears to be roleplayed out within the rules and followed appropriate escalation as we would expect. I will add that in the future if you believe something to be a rule violation during the round it is normally in everyone's best interests if you ahelp staff then and there. Doing so on the forums can make it a longer process and won't change the punishment that would/wouldn't have been issued. Closing this within 24 hours unless anyone has anything else to say.

Hi, I will be handling this complaint along with @ShesTrying. Thank you for the responses to this thread so far!

Appeal accepted. Please make the most of it, double check the rules and ahelp if you have any questions about potentially risky actions before carrying them out. We as staff are here to help the playerbase; last thing we want to be doing is banning people most of the time. Welcome back comrade.

I will address the two points raised briefly, but only briefly because I think you are pretty spot on here. I was attempting to get interaction going, just not specifically with me. I wanted to get all the departments doing things that didn't require my direct involvement because I am but one person (as basic as engineering doing engineering work, medical doing medical work etc). My narrative was extremely weak because the mine situation was a key accident that threw the round out of control. It gave me no time to develop my idea leaving it barebones. I have been and likely will be taking a break from antag to figure things out for now. When I come back it'll be narrative focused and hopefully more enjoyable to all involved. Ultimately, I am sorry this round happened on being given time to reflect on it.

"What was the purpose behind the medical incursion?" It's hard to remember past the time now, but thinking back I believe I wanted to go and confront the captain as I remember hearing something about him being shot. Whatever the reason, I believed him to be in medical. The plan there was to make some general demands, possibly throw up some on-the-fly story elements about being subverted but it was quickly thrown awry by the EMT I had at gunpoint simply shutting the door on me. I had to blow my way in with C4 and that obviously started a skirmish there. I believe I wanted to demand his access as well - I only had so many blocks of C4 after all! "From what I see, there was little communication behind it." I planned to work alone from the start, so Markos joining in with me kinda just happened. I planned to portray a story through actions rather than words but clearly it just turned into a shootout rather quickly. Unity wasn't doing much grand talking over comms because it didn't make sense at the time; she was just trying to get a number of personal objectives completed. "Additionally, what was the general idea behind sabotage? I've not seen much in terms of tangible or direct goals." It was just the usual autotraitor stuff. Rip up some bloodbags, maybe dump some medication so medical would have to remake / reorder things. Nothing so severe to make them impossible to operate. I considered doing a few things like disabling shields, possibly disrupting the power grid to further the idea that the goal was to cause disruption and issues to the station at large. That was the reason Unity had been subverted.

Okay, very simple suggestion. Make it so nobody in security can be an antag. I'm guilty of playing antag sec every once in a while and I always make the round kind of miserable for the station, even if it isn't my intention. Nobody has fun when sec gets torn apart from the inside and an inevitable ERT has to be called because security get ruined by people they are supposed to be able to trust. People outside of sec are forced to do what the antag wants or get owned, which again isn't massively fun. It should have been obvious, but it took me a while to figure out. At the very least the warden should not be able to, but I believe this should extend to the entire department. Even investigations.

Hi, I play as Z.I. Unity and will be explaining my actions. I'll try to cover you points bit by bit and hopefully address some of the concerns you raised. "HoS killed immediately and an antagonist warden fighting off all of security, as they controlled the armoury." This was unfortunate. I did not intend for the HoS to die or even find the landmine I laid there that early. I was planning to set it, go and do some general low tier sabotage like hiding some of medical's stuff and cutting some cables until a firefight would likely happen. That is when I wanted the mine to go off. If I wanted to gank them I would have killed the HoS after they spoke with me shortly after the explosion. It was pure bad luck that he ran into the armoury immediately after I left. Yes, I had control of the armoury. I was the warden at the time and security had firearms drawn on me immediately outside of the main weapon's supply. Of course I am going to use it. "ZI Unity and ZI Markos, cooperating together, roamed the station indiscriminately attacking people with zero justification" Us working together was completely unplanned. I actually shot him a few times until Markos told me to stop and that he was on my side. This can be found in the logs. We weren't randomly shooting people, we shot people who didn't co-operate, were fighting back or were security as security were (rightfully) engaging us. "they briefly spoke with security after the HoS was killed, and essentially refused to surrender, claiming what they did was "protocol"." Yes I was going for a hacked/malfunctioning IPC. We weren't going to stand down especially when the advantage was had icly. "This round, I feel, was an extremely egregious example of poor antag play" I don't agree. I can see how it looks like this, but the round kind of went that way due to the Head of Security rushing into the armoury immediately after I left it. I thought he wouldn't due to having a warden but I was clearly wrong. "(who have, in my opinion, a substantial history of poor antag play)" I don't really think this is needed, i've never been given feedback in that sphere apart from one round (which I was rightly warned for) where it was kinda LRP because as burglars we stole minor items like shoes and food. I can't improve unless people tell me they don't like the rounds I am setting up. "they successfully halted all roleplay until an ERT arrived and killed them." Roleplay isn't just sitting and talking to each other. We made the station feel like it was under a desperate attack by two hacked synthetics - you didn't have the go-to armoury option and instead had to handle it a different way (like the SMGs you ordered). I'm not sure what you wanted us to do, give an elaborate speech or constantly talk? Let you one-shot ion us and leave us in the brig for the rest of the round with very little interaction? My goal as an antag is normally to drag people out of their comfort zones and get them to deal with issues a different way, which you did. I thought the interaction from the FSF was really cool as well. I believe that covers the main points and I can answer any further questions. Regardless of the outcome, I believe I will be disabling antag for a while/for good after this is resolved. If people generally do not like the rounds I antag in I wish they told me sooner. Edit: Anyway. You didn't have to keep on pushing someone who was heavily armed from the armoury with nothing but a disruptor. Cargo and science was completely available to you, amongst other options. I also didn't make the ion totally unreachable, just changed which locker it was in.

Deserved

The short answer is there isn't anything to fix. As you described if antags go super loud security should be ass blasting them. The long answer is it depends on the situation. If antags are killing for the sake of killing without any rp motivation or reason then that is actually against the rules. Ahelp it. If they decide to kill based on their gimmick and have built up to it then as stated above, security should be dealing with this. High lethality means people actually have to think about their actions. Nobody wants to get killed and removed from the round, so people tend to rp more imo. Back during old-med people would just charge into combat and disarm spam etc because there was a good chance you'd come out fine. Ultimately, be the change you want to see. Come to the station with interesting gimmicks that don't involve murderising (but for the love of god don't just walk around the station as an advanced assistant, looking at peacewiz here).

Not much else to say that hasn't already been said. As it stands today I don't really see any major issues with any department, that includes security. I think adding in antags that focus less on combat is the best solution, shifting the focus to research or engineering - possibly others depending on creativity. What I dislike however is antags that just try to be assistant+, doing nothing but walking around the station and chatting to people. SS13 is at its best, in my opinion, when there are problems to solve in creative ways and that require teamwork. If a feature can be abused, it probably will. Doesn't matter if it's by sec or by the janitor

Sorry about the delay, I am British and you posted this while I slept. Okay - my concern about unbanning you is that it has not been very long since you have received your perma. You were banned on the 2021-01-22 (about two weeks ago) for getting a bunch of notes in a short amount of time. I am willing to unban you, but not this soon. I suggest you get familiar with the rules, consider if you will be able to stick to them and then re-appeal on the 20/02/2021 (just under a month in total) if you believe you've improved in that short span of time. Post below letting me know if you agree with this. If so, I will close this appeal and will expect you to re-appeal on the aforementioned date (or anytime after).

They are so fun to interact with that I am hesitant to give them a +1 as it means I might not be able to interact with them as HoS anymore. A fantastic character, give this boi a WL now.

Hi Schev, those were some excellent points and as usual your detail was top notch. I agree I should have made more of an effort in engaging with you after Blondie was arrested but at this point I was going off two things. Firstly, I had told you to stop before and you did not (Void hadn’t worked out you were an IPC due to their dumb player) and was concerned you’d charge into security with Blondie where they couldn’t follow. I’m not faulting you here, I’d keep running if a merc was trying to taze me as an ipc too! Secondly, you were right outside of security and my team was in the bar. Void was super concerned that the rest of sec would come charging out and that would be half the team gone instead of just one. Time was extremely short, meaning that action had to be taken instead of Words. Absolutely agree that communication wasn’t fantastic across the board and everyone suffered because of it.

Hi, Voidcrawler here. I want to clear a few things up. I did not know the ERT at all, they said something about recognising my character so I went along with it. You did surrender, but by that point we were in combat with security and we are not obligated to accept your surrender. This is not the UN and my Skrell did not have a blue helmet. The HoS I think was caused by an aiming problem (person activates aim intent and forgets to deactivate move, talk etc) and after one started shooting the rest joined in CM style (I am not innocent). The ERT decided that me giving them cash then and there was better than command maybe paying them after the fact. I do not believe I gunned down anyone unarmed or any civilians. I cannot speak for my team as I do not control their actions. I killed one security officer because while I was detaining them near the start they decided to not surrender to armed gunmen and ran away. Happy to answer any questions, round was hectic so I apologise if I get any details wrong/unaware of them. EDIT: Recalling I did shoot at a couple of unarmed individuals, but they were told to stop before this happened. They refused to stop so they got shot at - situation in engineering is a good example of this.