Bear

@Jennalele Had to end up binning this IR after digging into it further. DM me if you have any questions either via the forums or discord (( bear#0117 ))

??I love this. Yes. I absolutely love this. +1

Im not smart and missed this part. Does this mean the character would be playable during the year long investigation/wait for trial as I pointed out mofo's original post said without bail. If this is so. I am willing to play the long game here and that is acceptable.

I turned them off. However. When I went to set them they were showing as off to begin with. That could be a client side thing tho. But i set them off regardless. Regardless it sounds like theyre going with the body being found regardless. We knew Cheshire found the scene but nothing ever came of it and it was left behind. No one is debating if Yahir was a prime suspect because of the PDA messages. But rather if they had enough to go on especially in light of literally murderous skrell team also grabbing skrell and cthur at the same time and over the next few weeks and the lack of physical evidence connecting Yahir to the scene besides the PDA messages.

Yes it was originally on the arrest in general. I'm not loking for any penalizing action against Resilynn. I am simply protesting the removal of the character. And okay so there are no options here @Skull132 it is the character is gone for a year+ as there is no option of bail on the basis of evidence of PDA messages above, a scene with only wxkri's blood, a possibly mauled body, and no link to Yahir in any of this besides the messages. Unless I am missing something that was the only option. If that's the case then I guess I will end the character.

They liteally dont even play here. This eas taken from Bay

Thats okay, i wasnt offended by it. But without communication stating otherwise you can understand why I had drew the conclusion that there was no alternative. I really do not think the character should be permanently removed in either case. So if there are other options I would like to hear them. Otherwise I will obviously go with Skull's decision.

Perhaps that was my misunderstanding then when you started talking about how much time killing a Vaurca gets you. Regardless it originally was in protest of the arrest in general until alberyk posted the PDA messages which I then stated were worse than i remembered as well. I also messaged you about that on discord as well as alternatives but did not receove a response so I assumed alternatives were off the table as there wss no communication afterwards. At the end of the day Resi I have to disagree. You again have no physicial link to the crime other than the PDA messages. Which do not specifically say he killed wxkri and can easily be correlated with the witnessed altercation they had earlier.

I do not deny in any way Yahir would not be the prime suspect with the PDA messages. I am just fine with limited playtime on the character for an extended period of time. I am open to alternatives. Though I was told there would be no investigation. Rather just the arrest. So to be clear what are my options here? I am definitely willing to be flexible here. I am just fine with my char having consequences. I simply didnt want the end of his story to be "and he went to gay baby jail" An option that I would have ideally hoped for is to allow the arrest to go through, and shelve the character for a month or two while he sits in gay baby jail while further investigation/interrogation happened before release. I personally think the lack of any physical evidence damns this case from actually going through with an actual trial and conviction. But the PDA messages make him very, very suspect. I'd be happy to have the character on a watch list ect ect. But this is a personal hope, and I understand that. As I said, I am open to alternatives as well. I just need to know what my options are here.

I'd like to nudge this for a resolution @Skull132. Especially in light of the Tup peackeepers going "remember no russian" on a crowd yesterday, who were also present around the time of wxkri's death. I'd like to hammer on a few points on why I don't think this would go past an initial month or two of investigation/interrogation. -No physical link to Wxkri's crime scene. Yahir was not injured and the EVA gear utilized were free of vaurca blood at the end of shift. Same for Wxkri's body which would have smeared against the rock. Yahir was not the only miner who was last seen with Wxkri before he disappeared. Now the arguement could be made that who's to say it wasnt a skrell setup considering they open fired on their own citizens yesterday and actively/openly hunted Skrell and Cthur Vaurca alike and one Cthur was abducted again last round. The only suspect Yahir/probable cause route just diminished. Who's not to say something just went wrong with Wxkri getting nabbed? -The PDA messages. This is the literal only thing incriminating Yahir. And they are bad, no arguement there. But again as I said earlier. Yahir would have lied saying he meant when he shot Wxkri as Wxkri tried to dump Easter's body after mutilating it and the vaurca jumped into space from which 90% of people don't return. Obviously, I'm prepared to face the consequences in the end either way. But I would really prefer not to lose my main on such stretched and circumstantial evidence.

I misunderstood the point you were going for. But the whole point of that line is you have a prosecution team moving to a federal attorney saying "We have some bad PDA messages from this guy about this vaurca, a scene full of blood, and body that got pierced 30 times with a blunt object.. but nothing linking any of these together phyisically besides the blood belonging to the body." The attorney is going to be fully aware this is going to be going in front of a jury of their piers and the relation of how little the Vaurca are viewed for. If they push the case, and lose. It looks bad on them and all the credits wasted. They're going to want an actually solid case before moving ahead with prosecution. Why? Because if these people don't all agree, yeah he did it and we don't doubt it. He walks for good and the case is closed for the Tajara.

That is exactly how modern justice works though. Cases are tried once. If the prosecution fails on their main lead, the accused walks. Double Jeopardy in every modern justice system prevents retrial. This is a murder case. This is going to have to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt. As it stands Yahir is definitely a prime suspect, are you telling me you can't plug and play any of the other miners in the scenario they have here reasonably? The PDA messages are highly suspect, but as I said, he would lie about their origin and admission for a lesser fault. He shot the Vaurca and the vaurca went into open void to which 90% of ppl don't return alive. For someone who DOESNT KNOW THAT YAHIR ACTUALLY MURDERED WXKRI this is still enough to cast doubt on the intention of the messages.

If I am bound by in game mechanics that limit things such as throwing a body into space, so are we bound by methods to clean tools in game.

I still don't think the issue of evidence was addressed. The entire case is: PDA messages. Blood in the maints. And a body that took a blunt piercing object 25 times to the head assuming it was found. No DNA links to the crime scene to a taj. The murder weapon was cleaned. The EVA gear was free of vaurca blood. Thats a shotty link at best. Additionally. The FIB wasn't there. It was simply the skrell who had already departed by that point. Especially you know, if you were to ask Yahir what he meant by those PDA messages. He'd lie and say he was referring to the point he shot wxkri. Still fits the scenario. But an interview never happened. And why is TC going to waste how many thousands of credits with prosecution to risk losing a shotty case and never close it on a vaurca caught molesting bodies that isn't even a Zo'ra when they can simply let it go cold and wait for more evidence to provide itself.

Hand him the lead

Be well, we hope to see your full return sooner than later.

((Long edit above to clarify where I stand and consolidate what has been said over this long thread. I don't think there's much more I can add to this other than that)) ----- I lied. Another edit in - There were a lot of miners that shift. The reason I bring this up is the crime was committed in EVA that wasn't stained in vaurca blood. The murder weapon was cleaned, leaving no DNA link to the scene that more than one person has walked through. Is Yahir still the most probable? Yes. But is there reasonable doubt it could have possibly been someone else? Also yes. Additionally. How much is the FIB really going to invest in a Cthur who was seen mutilating corpses?

This is what I am contesting. You are saying, without a doubt. Foul play was suspected and Yahir is convicted. You are saying a body was found intact, fibers from a space-proof suit were found by a team that did not investigate it in round and a command team that dismissed it. A command member saw the blood. It was ignored. Why would a *clean up team* decide to make more of it *before* someone is confirmed missing. You are saying the *body was without a doubt found* when it was not found in round and I say the odds of it being discovered in a hole on the asteroid by someone before something prowling out there like carp (which are found around bodies always) did. This is not feasible. You have to think of the timeframe here. Yahir shot Wxkri point blank trying to stop him from dumping the body of a friend into space. Yahir facing punishment for this? I'm not against. He still shot someone. The question was is this justified? That is not my place to say. I am debating the *unfeasible* evidence that you are accepting as collected and canon besides the very suspicious text message is enough to convict Yahir of murder. The message gives you plenty of reason to arrest him, if you would like him arrested for the duration of the warbling event as an "investigation" is conducted I am 100% accepting of that. I will contest him being proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt very strongly, here, however. --- With the timeframe added above I hope you begin to see where I think this is not a feasible order of events that is being used in this judgement, Resi. Even if the FIB and Jargon are watching the events, the only ones present there were the Jargon Federation who, unless they remained behind cloaked and tapped into the PDA network would have had any indication that "something" might have happened in an un-witnessed area. The PDA messages are not broadcasted off station, the FIB may have been watching but they weren't sitting the PDA message uplink, and if the Jargon Federation were to slip them that tip *instantaneously*, considering the recent kidnappings, disappearances, and diplomatic incidents that had occurred by that point are they truly going to be that trusting? The skrell kidnapping Yahir would have made more sense here by that logic. Sorry for the long edit, I just hope that my point is being conveyed as if this is gaslighted through, it will be the end of the character. It's a murder charge after all. There was a risk of death in the event, we all knew that. I'm accepting of that. But the death/permanent removal of the character did not happen in the event and it's being railroaded by very unlikey circumstances, I'm sticking to that gun. I'm not against Yahir being punished for his actions. I'm against him being punished in this manner with no say from the player, just a DM that hey you're char is being arrested and proven guilty.

So as this has been a long post and this has been a drawn out discussion I'd went as far as to add a graphic as I am a visual person to help keep this organized. I've put the known issues into three categories. Things everyone agrees that we know, things that might be known, and then unrealistic information from either improbability of it being gathered or knowledge taken from observation and players not in round. Please let me think if there was any other pertinent information on this "case" that has been built.

It did lol. I threw it again bc i caught it on my material scanners when leaving to scale back up the rock and go back to the mining eva airlock so as few chances to be seen as possible when going back inside.

But okay. I do not remember being that brash in text tho it makes sense for the character. In sight of that it definitely makes sense they'd arrest Yahir to at least interrogate him and investigate it. I still would like to contest this is enough to see him proven guilty for murder beyond reasonable doubt? it's not a physical admission of guilt. Very suspicious yes. Enough to say he did it beyond a reasonable doubt when no effort to collect evidence was underway meaning it would have been lost. I still dont think so. I still say the rest is a screenshot from observing for the blood and still meta to be used in determining this when it was ignored/undiscovered icly in round. It was an ic issue that was not handled ICly. Those texts were around the same time he jumped and Yahir shot him point blank. Who is to say that is what he was not referencing? This is a stretch. Yes. But its the point that it can still be doubted here for conviction.