The State of the Chef

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

How will buffs from food create interactions for the chef?

Forgive me if I misremember, but I believe these buffs were limited to freshly cooked food, which means visiting the cook would be a necessity in order to get said buffs.

Edit:with apologies if I'm mistaken

 

These say why people will grab food cooked by the chef. How will this create more interactions for the chef? Burger wants to stop "grab and go". How does this stop that?

[BurgerBB]

If the chef despises people doing grab and go they can do cook by demand like some chefs already do.

[Kaed]

To be perfectly honest I'd really like it if we took the generic nutriment and animal protein thing, and used both of them only in junk food favour of a more complex set up subtypes like 'vegetable', 'fruit', 'grain', 'sugars' and such that show up in prepared food with the chef, with some minor benefits for using them, that are time based, so you have to wait a bit to feel that just ate a good meal vibe. And higher penalties for overeating, to avoid powergaming and abuse.

I love complex systems of benefits and detriments and secret combinations that have new benefits, and fie on those people who insist simplicity of design is the more important thing. There's no reason cooking and bartending for that matter HAVE to be a roleplay-only section. It's just how things are right now. Adding more significant mechanics do them doesn't ruin them, it makes them part of the GAME instead of just a playing pretend minigame.

It would also be good if there was more enforcement of using the EFPoS. There's a lot of people saying the chef's food is free. It should be more expensive than the vending machines if we also make it do more.

(when's the economy patch coming?)

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

If the chef despises people doing grab and go they can do cook by demand like some chefs already do.

 

If the point of the changes is to bring more interaction for the chef then doesnt this fail at that goal?

[Coalf]

What JB said, if chefs can already fix the interaction problem then why is it a problem.

[BurgerBB]

No, because there is 0 reason to go to the chef in the first place, I don't understand how this is a difficult concept to grasp. Chef can't fix the interaction problem on their own because no one bothers to go to the kitchen in the first place. It doesn't matter if you have food already out or if food is ordered, people just don't go because junkfood is too convenient with little negative effects.

When you have buffs in place that reward players for going to the chef, then people will go to the chef, and interact. Depending on how the chef plays, people can either nab food from the counter or order something specific. The later will likely happen because certain types of foods will grant certain types of buffs.

Desert items will increase pain tolerance.

Breakfast items will reduce stun times.

Dinner items will increase sprint regeneration.

[Butterrobber202]

No, because there is 0 reason to go to the chef in the first place, I don't understand how this is a difficult concept to grasp. Chef can't fix the interaction problem on their own because no one bothers to go to the kitchen in the first place. It doesn't matter if you have food already out or if food is ordered, people just don't go because junkfood is too convenient with little negative effects.

 

We’ve already addressed the contents of this paragraph twice.

[BurgerBB]

No, because there is 0 reason to go to the chef in the first place, I don't understand how this is a difficult concept to grasp. Chef can't fix the interaction problem on their own because no one bothers to go to the kitchen in the first place. It doesn't matter if you have food already out or if food is ordered, people just don't go because junkfood is too convenient with little negative effects.

 

We’ve already addressed the contents of this paragraph twice.

 

And I heavily disagree with any statements that say that isn't the case.

[Coalf]

No, because there is 0 reason to go to the chef in the first place, I don't understand how this is a difficult concept to grasp. Chef can't fix the interaction problem on their own because no one bothers to go to the kitchen in the first place. It doesn't matter if you have food already out or if food is ordered, people just don't go because junkfood is too convenient with little negative effects.

When you have buffs in place that reward players for going to the chef, then people will go to the chef, and interact. Depending on how the chef plays, people can either nab food from the counter or order something specific. The later will likely happen because certain types of foods will grant certain types of buffs.

Desert items will increase pain tolerance.

Breakfast items will reduce stun times.

Dinner items will increase sprint regeneration.

I disagree.

[HouseOfSynth]

You keep saying chefs can't find interaction on their own. I provided multiple ways to spark interaction within my reply.

[BurgerBB]

You keep saying chefs can't find interaction on their own. I provided multiple ways to spark interaction within my reply.

 

The suggestions you gave provide little interaction in my experience.

[Kaed]

I like how new suggestions and feedback are being overlooked so the OP can keep bickering endlessly over things earlier in the thread.

This is not helpful to the thread, please stay on topic to the actual suggestion thread, it's 'the state of chef stuff', not about the quality of people's suggestions.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Why do you disagree burger. We're here explaining our points and you just dismiss them out of hand.

Convince me

[BurgerBB]

I've explained practically every point earlier in the thread and my stance on the issue. i'm not here to repeat points. I'm not here to argue with people. I'm not here to even persuade people. This is the idea presented, and if you like it, you like it. If don't like it, you don't like it. As I repeated multiple times in the thread that just because I don't respond to someone's post, it doesn't mean it's being overlooked. Plenty of considerations are being taken into account that people provided, but I don't have time to type up responses.

[Scheveningen]

You keep saying chefs can't find interaction on their own. I provided multiple ways to spark interaction within my reply.

 

The suggestions you gave provide little interaction in my experience.

 

Clearly you need to change how you do things in order to achieve a different experience, then, because making code changes to make the community, rather than yourself, adapt to the way the game is played sounds quite suspect. Purposefully designing facets of the game so that other people have to to be forced to play to your playstyle is perhaps going to draw a lot of ire, if it has not already. You're the only 'chef main' I know that complains about this.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Guest

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

You've ignored major, consistent points. Even on the comments on the github itself you totally glossed over an important element in the discussion when I pointed out a major issue.

 

BurgerLUA commented a day ago

There is no lunchbox customization, currently. It's completely random. I'm actually adding more customization so I don't know what on earth you're talking about.

JackBewt commented a day ago

It's not completely random. You can customise your lunchbox's contents. I always spawn with a jelly sandwich, candy apple, and bottle of water because I chose those to spawn in my lunchbox in character customization.

You are wrong, and now I am not sure you have tried to use the lunchbox feature yourself?

BurgerLUA commented a day ago

Nope, someone told me it's customizable. I recall several months back people were complaining that their mom packed them k'ois waffles. I'll just limit it to junkfood.

JackBewt commented a day ago

why are you coding a nerf based on something someone told you a month ago when you don't even know how the current feature works.....

BurgerLUA commented NOTHING

 

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/5190

 

• You want more people to have more dialogue and conversations with the chef.
• You want to remove lunchboxes because it competes with the chef.
  
• You want to remove or cripple vending machines because it competes with the chef.

 

These are all wrong.

[BurgerBB]

The question was silly and not worth addressing because regardless of how it's implemented the result is the same. I wanted to make it so that only junkfood could spawn, but you could choose which junkfood you wanted. Turns out that feature was already done for me and I just needed to replace the existing food with junkfood. I shouldn't even be addressing you right now because this contributes nothing to the thread but here I am anyways.

[Ornias]

The kinds of people who would forgo interacting with the chef when not compelled are the kinds of people who will grab and go with food as soon as possible when compelled.

I already have significant issues with providing unrealistic properties to items. It gamifies things extensively, and we have proven time and time again that the community can't separate game mechanics from realistic play (';just drink some tea lol' ';you got irradiated? drink some vodka haha' ';ugh this wizard is so annoying teleporting all around the place lol' ';disarm him!' ';dislocate his limbs!'). for this reason alone, i will not support any change that proposes to create scenarios which will be counterinducive to realistic and believable play.

You don't want to address points in the thread because you don't have the time or willingness to respond? That's completely fine. But that means that your changes won't go through, because the community will not support them one bit. You're being generous by donating your free time to code new features, but that doesn't mean that your gifts should be unanimously accepted. You need to keep people in the loop and involved, because, when it comes down to it, you're not coding an optional mod. You're coding for the actual game that everyone needs to be involved with.

[AmoryBlaine]

Protip: If people are asking, "Hey, is this free?" Don't leave the food out. Make them use the menu, ect. It's more fun for everyone anyways, and lets people choose between eating, or fucking off.

[Bauser]

Another major problem with removing vending machines and forcing people to rely on the chef is that it mechanically imbalances the game in favor of the station team, further punishing antagonists just for doing what they're supposed to be doing. This would make it so an ousted traitor on the run is doomed to starve, since you've removed any pathway for someone to feed themselves as sufficiently as the chef can. We already suffer from the fact that like only a dozen people play as antagonists. There is no reason to make the game any more hostile towards them other than people's irrational thinking that the game is broken when antagonists win (or because you play as a chef and want to wield more power over people).

I mean really, what are you thinking, making even all the game's combat revolve around whether or not they've bought your food this round or not, making hunger cause you to stun easier, AND basing the entire game clock around whether or not you specifically (since, let's recall, you are not making these PRs for the benefit of anyone else) are present at round-start. These ideas are embarrassingly bad. They elevate a civilian role that should be based on fun and fluff into a mechanical juggernaut that every other player depends on to accomplish objectives. I am awestruck by not only the magnitude of how bad these ideas are, but how easy it is to see how bad these ideas are.

[Kaed]

Another major problem with removing vending machines and forcing people to rely on the chef is that it mechanically imbalances the game in favor of the station team, further punishing antagonists just for doing what they're supposed to be doing. This would make it so an ousted traitor on the run is doomed to starve, since you've removed any pathway for someone to feed themselves as sufficiently as the chef can. We already suffer from the fact that like only a dozen people play as antagonists. There is no reason to make the game any more hostile towards them other than people's irrational thinking that the game is broken when antagonists win (or because you play as a chef and want to wield more power over people).

I mean really, what are you thinking, making even all the game's combat revolve around whether or not they've bought your food this round or not, making hunger cause you to stun easier, AND basing the entire game clock around whether or not you specifically (since, let's recall, you are not making these PRs for the benefit of anyone else) are present at round-start. These ideas are embarrassingly bad. They elevate a civilian role that should be based on fun and fluff into a mechanical juggernaut that every other player depends on to accomplish objectives. I am awestruck by not only the magnitude of how bad these ideas are, but how easy it is to see how bad these ideas are.

 

Sorry, I see all your complaints here and just think they make the game feel a little more organic. Food should way more important than it is, and your insistence that the chef HAS to be this 'fun fluff role' is what is inhibiting progress. You are pigeon-holing roles into what they are now and throwing a tantrum about things being different. It's not hard, even if we make not having food be more crippling than it is, for antagonist abilities and tools to be adjusted to reflect this.

Give wizards a ring of sustenance or food summoning ability or a cornucopia of endless snacks, let ninjas have a nutrient injector (they already have 'glucose' injections, but it's useless for the most part, just replace it with a nutrient/protein chem injection), let vampires actually gain sustenance from blood instead of just blood points, traitors already have a special donk pocket kit, if you want more, just give them some kind of high tech food fab/prep kit (and if you need antag uses, make the purpose of it to give people drugged/poisoned food).

These aren't difficult ideas to come up with, but I admit it does involve sort of a refactor of a lot of things and adding content to the game.

But burger seems like he is the sort of person, hopefully, to make a project comprehensive instead of leaving a bunch of dangling loose ends.

[Bauser]

If it is an acknowledged fact that this elevates the chef to one of the most mechanically important roles, don't you think it would be valuable to know if most chef players want to play a chef like that? So that they are always on a time-crunch, rushing to churn out a volume of food enough to sustain the entire station instead of taking the time to craft what they want to, with the people who actually want to roleplay with them?

Because it looks to me like this is a great recipe for increasing the number of interactions for the chef and drastically lowering the quality of those interactions. By making people depend on the chef, they will despise having to do so. They will be in-and-out without consideration.

You can "muh inhibiting progress" me all you want, but first you should ask yourself whether changing a role from being roleplay-focused to just a mechanical tool for keeping people's stats up is actually progress at all. It's antithetical to the spirit of the server (taking something that is currently based on voluntary participation and so naturally attracts the interactions of people who enjoy it and want to be there, and turning it into something that's just a grind to keep your spaceman good in combat), and it speaks to a tragic misplacement of priorities.

[Kaed]

If it is an acknowledged fact that this elevates the chef to one of the most mechanically important roles, don't you think it would be valuable to know if most chef players want to play a chef like that? So that they are always on a time-crunch, rushing to churn out a volume of food enough to sustain the entire station instead of taking the time to craft what they want to, with the people who actually want to roleplay with them?

Because it looks to me like this is a great recipe for increasing the number of interactions for the chef and drastically lowering the quality of those interactions. By making people depend on the chef, they will despise having to do so. They will be in-and-out without consideration.

You can "muh inhibiting progress" me all you want, but first you should ask yourself whether changing a role from being roleplay-focused to just a mechanical tool for keeping people's stats up is actually progress at all. It's antithetical to the spirit of the server (taking something that is currently based on voluntary participation and so naturally attracts the interactions of people who enjoy it and want to be there, and turning it into something that's just a grind to keep your spaceman good in combat), and it speaks to a tragic misplacement of priorities.

 

Doom and gloom and the end of the world if we change this, cooking will become a grindfest that robs all fun from it and forces people to participate aaaaah~

Tbh what's going to happen at worst is some people will be salty for a little bit then the server will adjust it's culture around the new mechanics, much like they did when any other major chance occured, like firing pins, or adding the tesla, or remapping everything. This is still a game, and 'muh roleplays' intermeshes with it, not supersedes it. People aren't going to be forced to roleplay with the chef if they don't want to. They can just take food and run, like they always have, forever. The food is just going to be more important. And in the end, we'll have a more rich game.

[BurgerBB]

Yeah a lot of people are acting like this change is the end of the world. There are some pretty shitty attitudes coming from certain people that seem to be acting like I killed their firstborn son or something.

Just a reminder that constructive feedback needs to be constructive. So far I think like 5 posts out of 73 in this thread actually qualify as constructive feedback. Telling me you don't like it isn't constructive feedback. Giving me gameplay tips that I didn't ask for isn't constructive feedback. Giving suggestions on how to improve the feature itself is, and so far that's depressingly lacking in this thread and doesn't help me whatsoever.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Ill definitely not play chef if this goes through because i dont play it to cater to 40 people demanding mechanical buffs.

Both burger and kaed are just throwing out and belittling anyone that brings up a problem with this suggestion. Theres not much else to do in the face of such mean spirited disregard of criticism.

This idea doesnt need compromise or change. It needs to be cancelled.