[1 dismissal] Remove 2/3rds vote requirement and just make it 50/50.

[BurgerBB]

Right. In order for a round to be voted to end, 2/3rds of the people want the vote to end. Quite frankly this is one of the dumbest things on the server and I don't see how this is fair to players. You're practically pandering to a literal minority of players who want the round to continue. If a majority of people want the round to end, and a vote is given and tallied, then the round should end full stop.

I've been told countless times that rounds are designed to be 2 hours long, which is why the vote limit is at 2 hours, but with that present, what justifies 2/3rds majority vote? Are rounds meant to be 3 hours long, when the 50/50 rule applies?

So far I've yet to see a convincing argument supporting the inclusion of a 2/3rds majority rule, other than "It's an HRP server, let people roleplay!", but imagine a situation where 1/3rd + 1 of the players are on a murderbone spree, and the HRP players into RP want to finish the round? Would it be fair for the vote to say "Yeah no even though the round should end, I say no because your vote doesn't matter as much as the other guy."

[Carver]

 

2 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

So far I've yet to see a convincing argument supporting the inclusion of a 2/3rds majority rule, other than "It's an HRP server, let people roleplay!", but imagine a situation where 1/3rd + 1 of the players are on a murderbone spree, and the HRP players into RP want to finish the round?

An argument against this is you often have the lot who just want to end an extended asap so they can get to murderboning in an antag round. 2/3s works both ways, in that regard.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Shouldn't the round conform to the majority of players? It's not 51% of players wanting it to end; 75% of all active players wanting the round to continue is a pretty high majority. If the round bores me and a vote to end fails, I just say goodbye and cryo.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Scheveningen]

No, I log on to roleplay. I personally think the 2/3rds vote should apply all the time. If a vote goes 49/51, it makes a decision even at the expense of the 49%.

[ben10083]

How about a compromise of 3/5ths?

[Scheveningen]

70/30. My way. :^)

I think the system is fine as-is. It's already a compromise between the people who prefer short rounds and those who prefer long rounds.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Scheveningen

[BurgerBB]

16 hours ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Shouldn't the round conform to the majority of players? It's not 51% of players wanting it to end; 75% of all active players wanting the round to continue is a pretty high majority. If the round bores me and a vote to end fails, I just say goodbye and cryo.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying in the OP. If a majority of players want the round to end, then the round should end. If 75% of the players want the round to continue, then it should continue. If 50% of the players want the round to continue, then it should continue. If 49% of the players want the round to continue, then the round should end.

9 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

No, I log on to roleplay. I personally think the 2/3rds vote should apply all the time. If a vote goes 49/51, it makes a decision even at the expense of the 49%.

Then roleplay in the next round. This isn't about voting to end because you don't like roleplay, this is about voting to end because the current round is shit.

Edited March 11, 2019 by BurgerBB

[Scheveningen]

 

14 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

it makes a decision even at the expense of the 49%.

Obviously if 49% of people want to stay during the round then it's not that shit.

If a round really is shit, at 2 hours people will vote over the 2:1 requirement.

[BurgerBB]

2 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

 

Obviously if 49% of people want to stay during the round then it's not that shit.

If a round really is shit, at 2 hours people will vote over the 2:1 requirement.

 

If 51% of people vote to end the shift, then that means 51% of people would rather see a new round. That's a majority. That shouldn't be up for debate and that should be the thing that ends all arguments.

[Scheveningen]

It's the difference of 2% only. Requiring 2:1 ratios is as fair as it gets. 1.01:1 is not remotely as fair.

[VTCobaltblood]

On 11/03/2019 at 07:16, BurgerBB said:

but imagine a situation where 1/3rd + 1 of the players are on a murderbone spree, and the HRP players into RP want to finish the round?

This happens painstakingly rarely (read, never) compared to people wanting to end lowpop extended (which tends to consist almost solely of RP) because they don't feel like latejoining. I would be okay with this only if people not in the round or dead (not observing) couldn't vote.

Edited March 12, 2019 by VTCobaltblood

[Arrow768]

On 11/03/2019 at 05:16, BurgerBB said:

Right. In order for a round to be voted to end, 2/3rds of the people want the vote to end. 

Voting for dismissal,

The 2/3 rule only applies until the 3 hour mark.
Afterwards a 50% majority is sufficient.

The 2/3rd majority rule until the 3 hour mark has several reasons:

• It allows antags to take a slightly more relaxed approach to build the tension
• Most larger projects (RD, Engineering, ...) take a while to set up and get going. The 2/3rd rule until the 3 hour mark helps again to reduce the pressure on the setup duration.
• The point raised by VTC
• I am sure there are some other reasons I forgot

 

To address some of the other points raised:

Only allow people in the round to vote:
We tried that for a while, but went back to allow everyone to vote again. It often resulted in people joining and then immediately starting a vote.

Change the radio to 3/5 or 30/70:
This would change the current system insignificantly and therefore fail to address the wishes of the OP

[BurgerBB]

3 hours ago, Arrow768 said:

Voting for dismissal,

The 2/3 rule only applies until the 3 hour mark.
Afterwards a 50% majority is sufficient.

The 2/3rd majority rule until the 3 hour mark has several reasons:

• It allows antags to take a slightly more relaxed approach to build the tension
• Most larger projects (RD, Engineering, ...) take a while to set up and get going. The 2/3rd rule until the 3 hour mark helps again to reduce the pressure on the setup duration.
• The point raised by VTC
• I am sure there are some other reasons I forgot

 

To address some of the other points raised:

Only allow people in the round to vote:
We tried that for a while, but went back to allow everyone to vote again. It often resulted in people joining and then immediately starting a vote.

Change the radio to 3/5 or 30/70:
This would change the current system insignificantly and therefore fail to address the wishes of the OP

Antags slightly taking a more relaxed approach to antaging results in either chairrp or nothing happening until the 1:30 mark. You could argue that this 2/3rds majority garbage contributes to bad antaggery as it lets traitors get away with having their preferences checked without having any gimmicks in mind while playing. I've seen too many fucking times where the antag does literally nothing for 1 hours and 59 minutes, but they suddenly start to announce themselves and people vote continue along with the cries of "GIVE THEM A CHANCE, SOMETHING IS HAPPENING!!!" like idiots and then complain about how coming up with a gimmick in 2 hours is hard.

If engineers or whatever have a large project going, and the people are properly informed of it, then 9 times out of 10 more than 50% of the people vote to continue. If people genuinely don't give a shit then they won't vote continue.

And I don't know about you. I've seen plenty of bullshit vote calls in my day involving antags crazy going on a rampage to the point where the top 4 words being "we're dealing with it"  and people cheering them on. Happens frequently in cult/crossfire/raider rounds. The opposite happens frequently too where because there is literally nothing going on, people vote to continue because they get a free extended round.

I'm not an expert in gameplay but I'm an expert in being a player, and I can tell you right now that all these features that make extended happen more often is just malicious. If people want extended, they should vote extended, and not rely on bad game mechanics so they get secret extended, "antags are doing literally nothing" extended, or "the gamemode is so bad it might as well be extended" extended.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by BurgerBB

[Conspiir]

50/50 votes were the norm once upon a time and it was changed. This may come as a surprise, but antag rounds were bad when they ended at the 2 hour mark, too. Making transfer votes happen more commonly at 2 hours will not fix the problem you want to fix. It may in fact make it worse as antags are further pressured to make things happen nownownow for the gratification of the 51%. An antags could be doing something really neat, but if it hits the 2 hour mark and a couple people don't know it's happening or don't want to be involved (it's a big station, not everyone can be included in everything, all the time) then that antag's setup and execution are ruined and there's no going back from that. There's no redo. It becomes a new round.

 

2/3 until 3 hours is as fair as it gets. It gives time for potential and doesn't take away from anyone that is doing a project not related to the antag.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I've been swayed. Having the possibility for the crew to decide to leave would be nice to go back to.

[Hendricks]

Yes please. It should be fair, not a biased vote. If more then half people want to leave but a few just want to draw it out then it shouldn't have to stab people in the back.

[Alberyk]

I am fine with how the system is, if the round is that bad, most people will vote to leave, which happens. If not, three hours is more than enough to give people some extra time to do their thing. Voting for dismissal.