Complaint - Various Cultists

[NewOriginalSchwann]

BYOND Key: neworiginalschwann

Game ID: b35-a7bd

Player Byond Key/Character name:

Alvin Mildred

Jaydon Lafortune

Leila Alamuddin

Genevieve Francois

Staff involved: N/A - However, I was told Cnyam handled some things in-round. I am, however, uncertain what was done. As such, after consulting with my fellows, I have decided it is appropriate to make this complaint.

Reason for complaint: In brief: aggressive ganking, powergaming, and horrific attitude in OOC resulted in a round that made me believe I was back on /tg/-Sybil rather than on Aurora. Several cultists displayed a pretty horrific attitude overall and poor respect of escalation overall. Jaydon Lafortune, in particular, was an egregious offender. I would like to, finally, state that this is not a salt complaint because the the antags won.

Now, the long-hand complaint. This was a fairly low-population round, a bit after midnight Eastern Standard time. Security was pretty decently staffed compared to most other departments, and I late joined at around twenty or thirty minutes in. Twenty minutes later almost every member of security was dead from cultists or a cultist themselves, and fifteen minutes after that Nar’Sie was summoned and the game was over at 1:14:00-ish. So how in the name of heck did this all happen?

The main strategy of Alvin Mildred was to stun talisman somebody with his starting cultist buddy then cuff, gag, and remove their headset before converting them. One cultist actually did lead-up RP to an attempted stun-cuff-gag-deheadset-convert but did it in plain view of security and got caught. The head of security managed to get a bit suspicious after two officers disappeared near Mildred, and told the AI to track him. This allowed us, the ISD, to catch him, one of his assistants, and eventually a third unrelated individual. We brought them to the brig for questioning, flashed and cuffed them, then one managed to break her cuffs and summon a sword and then all hell literally broke loose. At around 00:40 the brig turned into some kind of bizarre 2D version of the Fortnite: Battle Royale Halloween Special as cultists began destroying the hands of the three non-cult security members, a cadet got stunned and then gibbed, a reporter armed herself in order to desperately survive, and the ISD got completely wiped aside from cultists.

Following this the cult basically had free fucking reign of the station and easy access to weaponry. Any resistance was crushed in an exceptionally horrendous manner: Jaydon Lafortune would run up, stun talisman them, and then drag them to a sacrifice rune. For those of us not familiar with the mechanics of cult, the sacrifice rune instantly gibs you. Persons I have spoken with say that Francois assisted in this, so I have named them in this in order to get their story. Having seen it utilized three times in a row by Lafortune, assisted by Francoise, I can assure the reader that this is fairly difficult to counter. The attitude of Lafortune's player in OOC following this did not help, as his attitude could be summarized as "cry about it." Alamuddin’s player was also involved in this absolute round-robin of an OOC fight, so I have named them here.

In order to further explain this round I call to the stand the following witnesses:

@BoryaTheSlayer

@Wigglesworth Jones

@Bear

@Rosetango

@Brutishcrab51

@HighAdmiral

Memetastic Productions (I don't know if they have a forum account)

 

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? I did not, no.

Approximate Date/Time: 5 November, 2019

Additional Notes; I have the logs of the round, and can provide them if needed.

[Wigglesworth Jones]

I was the HoS this round, which was why I was pinged. Although I had a power outage and was admin-cryo'd later on, I'll describe what I saw.

I join as Sinclair Khaing, Head of Security. Five minutes in, I hear that @Carver's officer is going to meet the psych in the library. I go "k" and don't pay too much attention to it, before the AI informs me that they're on the ground, I send people over to investigate, namely Alamuddin and Francois. This is where I assume they got converted. 

The two people I assumed were responsible get taken in, and they all have the same story about seeing a guy in maintenance. Hm. The AI tells me that this is wrong, and the FT who was on cameras confirmed what the AI said. I trust the AI's word over the guy who has a bank robbery in his records, and decide to charge him and Derrick Mens (the other person who was at the scene.)

I head to my office and the AI tells me that they picked up a PDA message from Alamuddin saying that I need to be taken out first. Hm. I tell Schwann's officer, Coetzee, to arrest Alamuddin. She instead gets her hand cut off. I walk over to processing to where a person is missing, and then my power goes out. Joy.

Wasn't any attempt at a "gimmick" or any RP at all from what I saw, just rapid conversion of Security. 

[MasterAssistant]

...well. First post, and first complaint at the same time. Great start.

Sarcasm aside, I was Derrick Mens (Nope63) - one of the cultists this round. I will start of by saying that I did not do anything actually cult-related, considering it was my first cult round. I mainly followed around other cultists.

Now, that being said, I'll start off with my conversion. I was on my way to the surface, when an assistant (presumably, the bait) began staring at me, hence I stared back and so an interaction took off. About one or so minute later, Alvin Mildred - a psychologist, and cultist - showed up and went ''hey, I need help over here, please come''. After making a short reply I got instantly stunned by a talisman and then carried to the dorms, where I was forced to convert. This was done with minimal RP, and things appeared similar with other conversions. For example - Genevieve Francois and Leila Alamuddin. They responded to an officer being reportedly kidnapped (once again, a conversion with little to no RP), and Alvin tried to bamboozle them before stunning and converting them as well.

After these conversions, we were called into the brig to be interrogated. Obviously, we had no ground to defend ourselves and were shady as fuck, so I'd see why people would doubt us. Just as one of the cultists was about to get charged, I believe someone on our team decided to get their cult gear and start beating the shit out of sec. This, in turn, resulted in the absolute carnage that was security that round, having the majority of the officers killed.

Nearing the end of the round, I can confirm Jaydon Lafortune, a cultist officer, began sacrificing people in order to summon Nar'Sie in the chapel, though I don't have anything much else to say. Hope I could help. EDIT: Apparently, sacrifices are not needed. I'm unsure as to why that was done, and considering it with this fact, I see it as extremely poor play/straight up gank to have sacrificed three people in consecutive motion.

Edited November 6, 2019 by MasterAssistant
Thanks Rosetango.

[Rosetango]

I'll probably say my piece on this later, but I'll say this. Sacrifice runes are not used for the Nar'sie summon, nor are they even required. Once you have 8 or 9 cultists, you can summon Nar'sie.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Rosetango
added a tiny bit more info.

[BoryaTheSlayer]

Hi! I was Flash, the reporter that had to drag the bleeding out people out of the brig by blue grab + throwing them while the cultists were trying to... baton me, which gave me time to get everyone out of danger and also disarm into baton the cultist that kept chasing me(I was also flashed/stunned during this exchange, I'm not exactly sure how all the cult runes function).

To be frank, before the carnage it was looking like a decent mystery and it was rather intense, and it felt pretty smooth, at least from the latejoiner's perspective. The moment one of the cultists that was in processing spawned their cult gear in hell broke loose, as Schwann describes in his post. Not gonna lie, watching a cultist just wordlessly drag an officer away at maximum speed to cuff them and tape their mouth in a corner had left me wanting to retaliate, but as an IPC I did not exactly want to engage someone with a sword because of self-preservation RP. 

After that the RP stops, essentially, and it's just TG-style running around and obtaining the valids. I had spent about 30-40 minutes in robotics because of the damage I had(it only took so long because the roboticist is new, which is understandable), and after that I went into medical, knowing that there is an officer's corpse there whose gear I can take. The emergency shuttle was called around this time I think? But Nar'Sie was summoned shortly after so I had literally no chance of even getting out of medical alive. And so I died right after getting into the lobby. As I said, at this point there was no RP, just running around. So that was some really great time wasted!

I did not directly witness the cultist's actions except the carnage in the brig that was described, but I wanted to provide a story of how this round went for me. Long story short, it did not feel like a round on Aurora, and it sure wasn't fun.

[Brutishcrab51]

Nar'Sie's spawn causes the emergency shuttle to be called with a 5:00 minute time-frame, instead of a 10:00 minute one.

 

I was the Warden this round. I was honestly baffled and confused for much of it, I latejoined too. What I do know is that one moment we were processing some people for (INSERTCHARGESHERE), and the next a Cultist had cut my hand off. I responded by shooting his hand off. Security turned into a battle royale as Derrick Mens and Genevieve Francoise jumped me with disarms and a stun baton (respectively), Coetzee (Schwann) fought (and lost) against the sword-cultist, Alamuddin was stuck in Processing by the AI and the Reporter-IPC did some fighting on Security's side too.

 

Not long after, the cultists entered Medical to attack and capture people (led by Lafortune). Not long after that, they were stun-talisman'ing Miners and dragging them over sacrifice runes before they could even type a response sentence (Lafortune too). I actually survived in softcrit long enough to be ashed by Nar'Sie. This round left a bad state in my mouth to such an extent that the next round was also Cult, and unsurprisingly, all the starting cultists begged to be other antags. Traitors and ninjas. Lafortune decided to be a wraith and teleported around medicalizing people with claws less than twenty minutes into the round.

[Peppermint]

I played Genevieve that round. The whole thing was a mess.

 

As someone else said, me and Leila went to investigate a kidnapping. I tried to RP it out and let them go rather than forcing a confrontation early, but the HoS insisted so I went to arrest them. At this point I was stunned and dragged off to be converted along with Leila. No interaction happened, but given that we were sec and clearly a threat, I don't see much wrong with that. The only issue however was that then I was in an awkward place of having been rather obviously converted, so end up arresting Alvin to try and cover my ass. Doesn't work for reasons I'll get into after. I turn up to sec with Alvin and try to play things cool. Yet a few minutes later, a summon appears and starts attacking people. Bearing in mind that at this point over half of sec has already been converted, it seemed sensible to side with the summon and turn on the other sec members, given other ongoing issues. We didn't try to kill anyone, only non-lethal them until they started shooting with lasers. We win the fight but I'm put in paincrit and spend the next 5-7 minutes on the floor. Not knowing we'd won, I run off to maint and begin hunting for people to convert. The one person I come into contact with is RP'd with, though they end up escaping.

 

I went back to the armoury after hearing over the comms that sec had fallen. I can't remember who was with me, but we found an engineer breaking into sec. I stunned him to allow for a conversion, but the other person there decided to sacrifice them instead. I assumed for a shard, but that turned out not to be the case. Not sure why, but whatever; we've gone loud at this point and seemed fine. By now we're all incredibly salty over how the round has gone, so a bunch of us ask in AOOC as to whether or not we can just summon and get the garbage round out of the way. We had permission to do so and went off to the chapel to prepare. On my way, a miner with a sword began threatening me to stay away from him. Fine, I do, just want this shit done. Yet for some reason, he then follows me down the hallway and when I approach, hits me in the head with a sword. I defend myself, stun him, and drag him to the chapel. At this point I'm in pain crit again and am unable to move, so no idea what went on. I spend the rest of the round on my back. All I know is that people kept trying to shove their way inside and start fights, whilst someone was sacrificing them.

 

We summon the god thing, end the round ASAP, and salt begins to pour. That said, I rest 75% of that round on a handful of things:

 

Firstly the stun/covert in the library and, more overwhelmingly, the AI. In that round it:
- Constantly called out anything remotely suspicious, including a play-by-play of the whole library thing, both before and after I was converted. So all attempts to let the antags get away failed, as it did when we tried to explain what happened after we were converted. 
- Ordered sec around whilst pinpointing anyone remotely close to the area.
- Called into question the stories of any of us converted when we tried to RP it out.
- Randomly bolted  doors on any potential cult member. (Which is what sparked the fight in sec anyway, considering we had no other way to get out). This is the big one that fucked up the round imo.
- Informed people that sec had been comprised as soon as the whole library thing began.
- Bolted doors on cult members with non-cult members locked inside with them (How do you think that went?).

It was being an all around ultra valid hunter, which forced us into a very quick confrontation that then decided the rest of the round.  I don't think it was a fun cult round, but then again none of us playing cult were enjoying it either. We just wanted it done ASAP, hence the early summon.
 

[Brutishcrab51]

Security wasn't the first to start going lethals. I'd know, I was the only Sec-member during that firefight with a lethal weapon, the Warden's five-shot energy pistol. This was used after a Cultist started gibbing hands and stabbing chests, the summoner. I don't exactly know how that went down. I don't want to know. I was in paincrit for most of it too.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Brutishcrab51

[Peppermint]

Then I may be wrong. I didn't see the fight with Leila/summons, as by that point I was down. Once I was up there were lasers, but I guess by then the whole limb chopping thing had happened.

[Karhast]

I'm one of the people called out here, Jaydon Lafortune, and I can clear up some of the things I've done and the reasoning behind them as well.

 

I was one of the cultists at roundstart. We tried discussing a gimmick over AOOC, but we'd eventually settled on just playing up the actual blood cult thing, rather than anything else. That's fine. No problem. I did, though, had to go for 10-15 minutes, so I get stuff done ASAP and return to the game.

Fucking. Alarm bells. Everywhere.

Fellow culties are being brigged left and right. The AI is locking people into places. We've been exposed, and we've been exposed bad.

So I'm in the brig still, with a bunch of other sec people(Leila and Géneviève) being converted and some being.. Well, not. I try to get people kinda out, but no! No sir. The AI bolts every fucking airlock that it can and locks us in with the loyalist officers, screeching about cultists and telling people who did what, constantly, all the time. Lovely. Being cornered rats, we fight and win; I can say that I literally only stunned one armed person, offering them a choice between conversion or sharding. I got a LOOC saying that they just hate cult and wanted neither, and to just kill them. Cool. Sacrifice it is.

@Brutishcrab51 I tried to convert one person in medbay. One. The emergency physician was telling a nurse she could use me to practice checkups and such, so he takes us to an examination room. Once there, I tell him before anything else that he sure has good taste in victims, do a maniacal cackle, and only then stun. Physician man had the 300IQ idea of sticking the stuncuffed person with sopo then, which is ridiculous, but also not something I could stop him from doing. At any rate, leading someone off to corner them for conversion is entirely by the books cult RP so that should be fine.

Anyway.. Eventually, things have been loud enough for a while, the admins tell us that yeah things are cool, summon away, so we choose to head to the chapel for the summons, informing all cultists to come over.

AND EVERYONE WHO ISN'T A CULTIST IS BEELINING FOR IT AS WELL TRYING TO STOP US

As Géneviève noted, she gets attacked with lethal gear by a miner, at which point she lethally responds. I only see the tail end of this, decide we're summoning anyway, and move to sacrifice what is already a corpse after determining I can't shard it.

So, we have cultists in the chapel, and more filtering in. We try to herd people together on the summon rune, and

Again

In the chapel full of blood and guts

In the chapel inhabited by creepy people speaking in tongues, bearing swords

In the chapel where people have already died and there is a construct floating around a bunch

People keep. Fucking. Busting inside.

The rules are VERY CLEAR on playing hero being bad. A person who's no officer or related job has no business trying to bust in and do anything about the cult. We were moments away from summoning, and I really didn't want to see the summon interrupted by a stupid toxins bomb or smoke grenade or what have you, so yeah I sacrificed the people trying to interrupt the final summoning. Absolutely.

I didn't know yet at the time sacrifice does nothing; I only learned that with the advent of this thread:

and no sooner. I did have some people STUPIDLY enter our summoning ritual to deal with, and I chose to do it by sacrifice. These weren't people who had to miss out on a whole round or go do something else for an hour; not two minutes later, we completed our summons, and the round ended with it. Joy. My total tally of sacrificed people this round is 1 security person who was securing two of my allies and didn't want to be converted/sharded + some people I saw as trying to put a stop to our final summons. I don't feel particularly guilty for either save for sacrifice just being absolute garbo, so, yeah. These were my actions, make of them what you will.

 

 

[Wigglesworth Jones]

The cultists got "exposed" 15 minutes in because they kidnapped a guy on cameras. It seems like the cultists rushed to summon, as they converted the majority of security by abusing the (stupidly overpowered) stun talisman and pulling them onto conversion runes. That's shitty to do, it removes the majority of conflict and allows for a steamroll. Also, from my POV, gunning for conversions is ass, especially when done in this kind of manner. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Wigglesworth Jones

[Karhast]

That's fair, but also not something I did, so I can't comment on it.

[Peppermint]

I agree. I hate cult primarily for that reason. Being targeted as sec and forced to turn against your friends really  sucks hard. Especially when it's just 'Stun rune, bam, done'.

[Bear]

55 minutes ago, Karhast said:

I was one of the cultists at roundstart. We tried discussing a gimmick over AOOC, but we'd eventually settled on just playing up the actual blood cult thing, rather than anything else. That's fine. No problem. I did, though, had to go for 10-15 minutes, so I get stuff done ASAP and return to the game.

Actually I believe your words were "Antags don't need a gimmick" nor did you try to promote a story of any kind once the round actually moved on.

I was one of those who was ganked mid round as Yahir Na'Zirah. Originally came to stand off with Genevieve standing in the main hall as I was just trying to make my way back to Cargo. This was maybe.. five ten minutes after even the first mention of cultists.. who were jumping around stabbing people to death. Surprise? I had a claymore that had been found plus some other gear so I told her don't try it. Zero words, just walks away. I wasn't really interested in the blood fest so I was like whatever not gunna pursue no biggie, antag didn't want to risk the confrontation or bother rp'ing anything so no loss for either of us right? Put the gear away and start making my way down the hall once more only to see the same sec-lass charging up tome in hand once more without so much as a word. Managed to draw my sword, get blinded and get a swing off simultaneously managing to blind-hit them. Still no words, no talking of any kind. I just woke to being on the sacrifice rune. Still no rp whatsoever to my char. Splat. End of round for me. Watched them do this to what.. two more people in a row? Jaydon Lafortune and the Psychologist were big players in this.

They went on later to talk about how "All of sec is dead can we just summon Nar'sie"

No attempts at story were made, they simply ganked in the halls. This whole "We didn't want people interrupting the summoning?" Bullshit. They weren't even trying to summon at that point yet. They were still waiting on the OKAY to summon if memory serves correct ((I could be wrong, logs will verify this, but in either case, they were not trying to summon when they were givving)). They were just ganking to gank, No one was stopping them. They were sprinting out into the main hall. Flash spamming, and dragging people into the church out of sight to gib them.

Karhast was particularly lovely in the end of round OOC saying things like "Wah wah wah" and so on to people voicing frustration and discontent with being no rp flash-spammed and then gibbed.

Its the equivalent of flashing a borg and tossing it down disposals bc you're traitor.

I did, however ahelp this. I'm not sure what came of it but @Cnaym took the ticket. He can clarify as well.

This is a consistent problem with their LRP behavior in round and their quickness to just slaughter without escalation or consideration to the end of someone's round. I'll be honest I was very disappointed to have my round ended without a chance to rp with some chars I absolutely adore and rarely see. If I can offer constructive criticism? Stop trying to win. We are all guilty of this, myself included but some of us are better than others at turning off that drive of playing to win vs playing to RP and drive a story. If you are struggling to do that as an antag. Turn off your roles. Interact and build relationship with the many diverse characters we have on station. If you're finding it hard to not go full ham on the antags as sec? Start playing another role, slot visitor, play to facilitate roleplay which, in the end, is what we are all here for. I'm not saying everything needs to be sunshine and rainbows by any means, but when you're consistently abrasive in OOC ((not all of the people listed here)) and antagonistic, maybe it's time to think about the stress building up and being a bit overwhelming? Maybe try stepping back from what's causing you to get worked up and on edge?

Either way, that's my two cents on this round.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Bear

[Karhast]

For clarity's sake, this post is directed at @Bear

 

There's gimmicks and there's gimmicks. Antagonists don't need to be a scientology or a singularity or a pyramid scheme cult; if you're a blood cult, do blood cult things, do the blood cult RP, you're golden. Simple.

 

I sacrificed you, but I didn't kill you. I see someone else kill you, try to shard, fail, and then sacrifice. If you think you were killed with undue cause you can take it up with Géneviève; given that you were dead and unshardable, I'm just going to sacrifice you instead. Round's already over for you by that point.

 

By the time we were running about in the halls, the AI had already forced our hand. If you're going to screech at everyone there's a cult and bolt them in left and right and send bounds to halt them, then yeah, the cult is going to behave like the cornered rats they've become. It's the same as what I did in the brig: if you're gonna lock me in with people and tell them to bring me in, I'm not in fact willingly coming along to be brought in. I'm a psychopath trying to bring about the end of the world station as we know it, I'm not going to meekly get myself arrested.

 

I didn't gank anyone in the halls so take it up with someone else. Doesn't apply to me.

 

I did talk about being able to summon Nar'sie now, yes. Staff asked us over AOOC to get some actual blood flowing before the summons, because stealth summoning Nar'sie wasn't something they found kosher. We therefor went and.. Went loud a bit, challenged people, summoned Nar'sie. My line about summoning her now was the observation that the people whose job it was to stop us, died. Yay. I'd rather summon Nar'sie than spend twenty more minutes to kill defenceless people, so yeah, summon it was.

 

Cool story flinging insults my way. 'Bullshit'. Classy. I don't appreciate the lack of intellectual charity. By the time we got to the chapel it was literally because we wanted to summon Nar'sie there, so yes, anyone who busted into the place (with blood and guts and constructs and murder and cultists in robes) was both an absolute madman for heading FOR the place and in entirely the wrong place insofar long lifespans were concerned.

 

If you have any more specific events pertaining to myself, do tell me. The round is a while ago now, but I'll respond as best I can.

[Carver]

Hi I'm Theodore Godwin (Security Officer, Idris), the first converted Sec member of the round whose stun 'n' convert started the cascade that caused Sec to fall, here's my account and opinions on the matter:

1. On patrol, walking by the library, Psych (Mildred I think) and a pair of (cultist) Assistants ask for my assistance. (Mildred taking the lead role in the set-up)
2. I ask what they require assistance with, they want me to check something out so I accompany them.
3. I report over Sec Radio that I'm assisting the Psych with something.
4. They (the three cultists) talk about random shit for a couple of minutes, to which one (Uta or something like that) departs.
5. Psych finally gets around to asking me to check out the Adult Section of the Library for something that he never described, very obvious set-up.
6. I question why something is in the adult section and what that something is, and generally try to figure out what's going on.
7. I get stun talisman'd, duct taped, and dragged into the adult section with headset removed promptly. (This is plain view in the Library and Security/AI see this over cameras, a response is sent to investigate)
8. Conversion rune, a lazy and expected tactic but I opted to accept since I figured round would be a mess if I refused.
9. Another Officer comes up and I'm getting out, then a Detective, both are questioning me, I'm trying to bullshit in such a way that 'I don't remember what happened' and am formulating a story in my head.
10. The Officer and Det get stun talisman'd, same fucking thing happens, I'm locked outside the now-bolted Adult Section.
11. Another cultist walks up on this bolted door, talk with them and try to organize a set-up for me to 'take a fall' and pretend to get attacked so I can maintain cover and the exposed blatant cultists can get away. This doesn't happen.
12. Eventually the two cultists and two Security members, after conversion, are let out as the AI unbolts it to 'let me respond' or something. Aforementioned plan doesn't happen and for some reason people all just calmly walk the fuck away. I'm confused and proceed to stop caring at this point.
13. Cue investigation ordered by HoS, cue an attack on the Consular by someone, cue the two to three cultists (Mildred, Mens and I believe Uta) being arrested.
14. I spread some 'Unknown guy in maintenance jumped me as I was responding to the Psych' shit over Security Radio, seemingly the other Security cultists followed up on this story during the investigations. It didn't work because the AI isn't retarded and saw what happened.
15. One of the assistants summons armour and sword in the middle of processing, it all goes to Hell.
16. At this point I basically sat back, tried to keep the swordsman from dying whilst not impeding him terribly because the violent plan is awful. Coordination is non-existent.
17. Shit happens, people die, Nar'Sie, round ends.

In short; 

• AI did nothing wrong as the cultists weren't subtle at all in their forced conversions, basically kidnapping people in plain sight.
• Security did nothing wrong as the cultists weren't subtle at all in their forced conversions.
• Security cultists did nothing wrong as the escalation was not their fault.
• The cult, whilst absolutely awful at being stealthy and leaning towards awful forced conversion methodry, was at least not terribly violent until the HoS gave them charges for assault.
• I won't defend their rather rushed and terrible Stun-n-Sacrifice-spamming fiesta that happened after the brig fight, though.
• I had to step in and yell at one to use fucking soulstones instead of straight gibbing random people in the halls.
• This is everything I expect from an average cult round anyways; poor stealth, lazy conversion tactics that reveal them near-instantly, rapid escalation of violence.

[Bear]

26 minutes ago, Karhast said:

I sacrificed you, but I didn't kill you.

I didn't gank anyone in the halls

I did talk about being able to summon Nar'sie now, yes. Staff asked us over AOOC to get some actual blood flowing before the summons, because stealth summoning Nar'sie wasn't something they found kosher. We therefor went and.. Went loud a bit, challenged people, summoned Nar'sie. My line about summoning her now was the observation that the people whose job it was to stop us, died. Yay. I'd rather summon Nar'sie than spend twenty more minutes to kill defenceless people, so yeah, summon it was.

 

Cool story flinging insults my way. 'Bullshit'. Classy. 

1) That's exactly what the rune does. It gibs you.

2) You looked very much involved on the gib train from my ghosts perspective

3) Yes. They wanted you to promote story. Your perspective of sec players being the only ones worth interacting with and once they are gone, the only thing left to do is slaughter, is the problem. Think of other ways to approach the situation. Maybe narsie has a left hand fetish today. Perhaps ritualistic voluntary sacrifice is needed with the promise of ascension or buying safe passage home for the rest. Get creative.

4) As I tried to tell you yesterday being abrasive in ooc was not making you friends. In your own words:

Quote

"Wah wah wah"

 

[Bear]

@Karhast And I spoke on discord a bit. Part of the issue was it seems he misunderstood what the rune was for and what it accomplished. While a lot still went wrong with that round. My biggest issue by far was the gibbing of several players.

[Rosetango]

4 hours ago, Karhast said:

I can say that I literally only stunned one armed person, offering them a choice between conversion or sharding. I got a LOOC saying that they just hate cult and wanted neither, and to just kill them.

Please don't lie. I was never offered a chance between conversion or sharding. I knew I was likely going to be converted, and disliked the way the cult was going. So I specifically asked you to put me in cryogenics storage, not kill me. You decided to sacrifice me anyway. I think you knew what the sacrifice rune did, and used it to powergame in a way that wouldn't prolong your own in game life as to assist with narrative, and powergamed in a way specifically to win.

You actually also did technically gank me, as I was walking towards the armory/entrance, said "Sorry, I lied" (???), stun talismaned me and that's when I expressed my desire to be cryo'ed instead of being forced a part of a murderbone party. Reflecting back on this, what you did is borderline gank, and I am honestly angry at myself for not ahelping that.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Rosetango
Added some more information.

[Rosetango]

Also, Bear was NOT dead at the time of gibbing.

[Cnaym]

Hewwo!
I joined at 0:30, to a ticket about security ordering tons of stuff, took a look at the antag list which was filled with 6-8 cultists already and knew it would only go downhill from there on out, which is why I allowed them to summon Nar'sie to end that mess. I remember that after the round we had a lot of salt about the antags and the AI.

Here's two things that jumped into my eye:

Antags where pretty focused to claim that Nar'sie is the goal of cult -> Not a good mindset for our server

There where a couple of people in this cult that a) always roll antag and b) always get salty (be it AI, getting shot, general "losing")

Just going to quote the rules here. This is not aimed at anyone specific, but I would prefer if you would read and try to follow these simple steps to making antag interaction fun for everyone:

"The primary goal of antangonists is to DRIVE A STORY AND TO GENERATE INTERACTION. Be creative when coming up with objectives, and try to do things which will be fun for others, not only yourself. Do not resort to the bare minimums of generating a story through mechanical means, either. This means: no unmotivated/not roleplayed out mass murders, etcetera. See the rules below for further clarification."

"Only resort to killing if it makes sense or drives a story. Randomly killing someone because you’re a traitor will get you removed right quick. This also means that murder for the sake of murder is punishable. However, in certain situations, murder can serve as a tool, if none other applicable. If you’re uncertain, ask for guidance via adminhelps."

"No ganking. While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. This does not mean that you need to monologue your opponent before killing them: roleplay leading up to a murder can take place over the course of the entire round, for example, leaving the murder scene itself to be “wordless”. Collateral damage is acceptable within reason, but this means you must use common sense, and avoid creating scenarios with a lot of potential for collateral (setting bombs in high-traffic areas, etc.)"

[Karhast]

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1) That's exactly what the rune does. It gibs you.

Yeah. I spoke to Géneviève, and apparently she hadn't gotten around to killing you (yet). My bad in such a case. The difference between dying by sword immediately or dying by gibbing 30 seconds later isn't a large one, but it explains why I couldn't shard, which irks me.

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2) You looked very much involved on the gib train from my ghosts perspective

I explained my reasons for gibbing the other people a couple posts up, namely because a bunch of people decided it clever to bust into the chapel covered in blood and gore, and I'd rather not see them interrupt any summoning. Yeah.

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3) Yes. They wanted you to promote story. Your perspective of sec players being the only ones worth interacting with and once they are gone, the only thing left to do is slaughter, is the problem. Think of other ways to approach the situation. Maybe narsie has a left hand fetish today. Perhaps ritualistic voluntary sacrifice is needed with the promise of ascension or buying safe passage home for the rest. Get creative.

I wanted, and was going to, play up the blood cult gimmick of blood cult, where you talk about THE UNQUENCHABLE HUNGER OF THE STARS and whatnot. I SSD for ten minutes, return, and all of security is looking left and right for cultists, with the AI bolting people in before they proceed to stun and fight even more. I entirely agree that another style of round would have been nice, but I'm not the one behind the initial escalation here.

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4) As I tried to tell you yesterday being abrasive in ooc was not making you friends. In your own words:

This is pretty selective, man. Do you have the logs of that day's round? If so, you know as well as I do that a handful of bile getting flung cult's way in OOC preceded that.

Or, you know, Garn spamming 'deal with it' by way of admin announcement, but I'm sure that's more mature than what I said somehow.

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Please don't lie. I was never offered a chance between conversion or sharding. I knew I was likely going to be converted, and disliked the way the cult was going. So I specifically asked you to put me in cryogenics storage, not kill me. You decided to sacrifice me anyway. I think you knew what the sacrifice rune did, and used it to powergame in a way that wouldn't prolong your own in game life as to assist with narrative, and powergamed in a way specifically to win.

I can't in fact force anyone to convert as cult, ever, because there is nothing stopping you or someone else from deciding not to convert. The very first thing you did was screech at us over LOOC how you hate cult and never wanted to join and that you weren't gonna go along. The difference between cryo and sacrifice is minimal, given that both permanently take your character out of the round. You wanted to leave the round rather than join the cult, so I.. Made sure you'd leave the round and not join the cult. I wasn't yet aware at the time that sacrifice does nothing, so I figured it might give us some manner of aid, but that's not something I'm going to be doing again.

[HighAdmiral]

Hey, I was Roman Joon (Station Engineer) for this round. I latejoined, after hearing how many people were dead I went to security via maints, and hacked a door to get into the security area without risking getting caught in a main hallway. As soon as I opened the door to security I saw two officers, Lafortune and one other. I said "Hey, I was just trying to find you guys!"
I was immeditely flashed with the cult flash thing, and by the time I could see again I was cuffed. I started begging for my life, but was dragged onto a sacrafice rune and gibbed wordlessly. Zero RP, I personally really love being part of cults because it's fun. To wordlessly be killed when they had all the time in the world to convert me, and with no RP at that? Really turned me off for the night.

[Itanimulli]

Yeehaw, I love thigs like this! First, I played Kars Uta, the "creepy" stare assistant (not bait; legit had no idea @MasterAssistant was gonna get stunncuffed until it seemed obvious and, by then it was more of a 'I need to make sure this doesn't fuck up' than anything else.)

As I play every round, I assume the concept of the antag at hand (regardless of my current position in the round) is totally new to the station and all that jazz. For this reason I was relatively pissed at the AI. Unless the starter runes do damage to you (I don't believe they do), there was absolutely no reason for the AI to suddenly put me, the assistant, on blast, about "self harm," which is what happened. Later on, I wanted to to continue the creepy shtick and go mess with the dominian, because...religious conflict. By this time the psych has been converting people one after the other, and I'm not keen on leaving them alone for too long. So I go talk to the dominian liaison, who's sitting in a chair. I tap them with the sun run as a show of power....no tape with me, no other visible weapons, in full view of security hoping to evoke some 'omg what was that' roleplay because I literally just touched the with a peice of paper that just did bad juju magic shit (ooooh aahhhhh) and shwann's officer decided "mmm yesss flash-stun-cuff mmmm". She then said 'yea she slapped them with a epeice of paper and they fell over' wich is BS because the liaison was buckled to a chair and everyone knows if you're buckled falling over isn't a thing you can even do. So, so much for the rp requests people wanted so dearly. Who would have guessed that the weight of the round crushes everyone's toes if we all don't try to hold it up together? I at this point only know of a few other cultists because most of aooc is filled with salt at the AI (some genuine, most misguided), and after ahleping I was told the issue was dealt with. So, sitting in processing, one of the officers (name escapes me at the moment) decides to empty out my entire damn bag onto the table.

I will state now that I had not drawn a single blood rune this whole time, and had only the starter papers. Most of my rp was still hinging around 'the big setup' and the fact that we were all apparently blown for cover meant either I dew attention to myself and carried on with the "look what my god can do" gimmick or I suffered in salty silence. So I stun two officers with my s t a r t e r rune-papers and then use the last one to summon armor. Everything so far still seems groovy to me, but, as many said, all hell broke loose. Did security try to keep their distance from the maniac with a sword?

Nah.

In fact, everything not allied with the cult + 1 officer cultist I hadn't even known about was now fighting me, singularly. Don't even get me started on how fast @BoryaTheSlayer 's reporter shell sprung into full on combat. That thing about self preservation? Bull. I call bull. I couldn't ahelp amidst the frantic combat. I spent most of the fight either horizontal, with a white screen due to flashes, or attempting to pick up my weapons after Borya ran up to spam disarm. I don't mean to be belligerent here, but things aren't as one-sided as you lot like to make it out to be...at least, up until...right...after that whole fight in the brig...yyyyyyyeeaaaaaaaah.

I assume we literally have no strength left in the cult. I escape with literally just the officer that got culted in the library. Aooc is melting down about how the round is a shitshow. Yes, you heard me. Aooc thought the round was a farce, and at that point wanted to end the round immediately. I wish I could list names to see who lines up with the sacrifice lemming train that you lot reported afterwards.

What was I busy doing? Well, because it seemed like common sense to get rid of the AI, wich was the cultspeak villain of the week, I got wraithed! And I spent my time sneeeeeking through maint and having a hard time moving down an elevator. Narsie got summoned before I even reached the AI.

I still don't understand that. Aooc painted a picture of a lost round that could not possibly recover, and if what most of you say is true, we managed to pool together an...entire summoning...before a wraith could traverse the space from north engi maint to the bottom of the AI upload elevator.

I'm speechless, I suppose, about that last point. Like...if the round was as bad a situation as aooc claimed it to be...we would have fizzled out and it would have turned into that weird after-math extended round that usually tends to happen when the antags of the moment mess up and die. But nah, apparently we had 9 people, enough to summon narsie, enough to sustain a rolling assault on the medical that saw a ridiculous number of people sacrificed?

What I'm basically saying is that the way the round ended was bullshit. but what got us into the bullshit was a collective sum of mistakes on both sides and a plethora of strange assumptions that almost feel like metagaming that I didn't bother to ahelp because it would have just added more stress to a bungle of a round that'll be forgotten in like 3 weeks. Or, it won't, because someone will keep going back and forth about it or referencing it at inopportune times to suck the happiness out of whatever's going on like a vampire who spent 2 hours snorting salt.


Minor edit:
I suppose I should be glad that this complaint don't exactly include me.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Itanimulli
some other stuff I wanna say, small stuff

[Peppermint]

A lot of people are playing things up hella bad, as well as making base accusations. Given the number of 'Some of you do 'x', wink wink' and 'Some of you are well known for 'y'', at least have the conviction to name names and give evidence, otherwise it's just white noise.

 

I'll respond the issues directed at me.

 

Firstly, the miner I apparently ganked. For those who know me, they likely know that I very, very rarely kill people on the server unless there's no other way. This is why I actually turned off my antag selection as it just makes me feel bad ruining their round. In this case, however, I feel totally justified. Someone drew a sword on me and threatened for me to back-off. Fine. At that point it was kind of whatever, though their claim that cult stuff had only been apparently '5-10' minutes ago and they'd already armed up seems somewhat ridiculous to me. Anyway, I back off and leave it. Yet from my perspective they then start following me down the hall with their sword out. They didn't have it put away. Bear in mind that we made it extremely clear that we were gathering in the chapel and this guy was walking towards it. With weapons. After threatening me. I do not at all buy the whole 'Just going to cargo' story, but even if it was true, there was no way I could have known.. So, feeling threatened - after I literally just had been - I approach  him, took a sword to the head and promptly stunned him. T  As multiple others have mentioned, it was a confusing round and I didn't know how many cult we had. Wanting more converts, I take him with me to the chapel, where I quickly collapse given the internal injuries. I don't know why he was then sacrificed or what happened for the rest of the round, as I was in paincrit.

 

The engineer, however, is a different story. This one I actually feel bad about. Bearing in mind that by this point the AI has made an announcement that sec is evil, someone breaking into the armoury seems off. Whatever. So the guy appears, I stun him to try and get another convert given some of us had just died, but then things got fucky. The person I was with said we should sacrifice him. I disagreed, which - again - should be in any logs. After they kept insisting, I went along with it. I'm new to cult, I don't play it and do my best to avoid it. As such, I assumed they meant the person was to be put into a construct/wraith/whatever, so I let it happen. An explosion later and they were gibbed. Yikes. Not what I'd expected, and ,for this one, I do apologise.

 

People complaining we 'just wanted to summon' are correct. Everyone was having a shit time. Cult, non-cult, whatever; the round sucked. As such, we asked to end it so we could move on and we were given permission.