Please Reduce Nazi Imagry in Necropolis

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I haven't been after you. I do not interact with you outside the posts criticizing or complimenting your sprites or the art direction of your sprites. I have praised your work publically and I have criticized it publicly. This is where I am criticizing it. I did not even know it was you that made the uniform here so I don't understand how this can be a hit out on you.

[AmoryBlaine]

We cannot make them blue and yellow, unless the lore team wants the whole organization redone. Necropolis is not even a name that makes me think of either Soviet Russia or South Africa.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

So you reject my proposal?

[AmoryBlaine]

1 minute ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

So you reject my proposal?

I already made a replacement uniform, months ago. It is going to sit among the rest of the uniform resprites until I am done finalizing all of them for the last entry of my series of uniform resprites.

They might be broken up into smaller additions as to speed through the 'bug' fixes of the current uniforms, and have the wholly new uniforms in seperate PRs.

I have no idea what your proposal is, given my mind is now squarely on the fact that this thread which you have created has entirely drained me because of your assertions, and attempts to find evidence to support them. I do not even want to talk to you further until you actually apologize for trying to use assumptions and year old posts to try and justify shaming me into changing something I have already clarified as being a product of my own imagination of what colours I think of when I think about South Africa. You bothered to see what I've said about Rhodesia, but have you bothered to see what I've said about Necropolis? About how many fucking times I said no to giving the uniforms short-shorts? Where is the call out thread for those people?

The colours red and black are what Necropolis is currently, so I cannot tell @DanseMacabre that we can add a cyan and yellow uniform, until the lore team decides they want to change Necropolis' colours.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

i never said give them short shorts. i've backed up every thread with evidence, please go back and read them. im not going to apologize because you got bent out of shape that I made a joke about Rhodesia that is offensive and bad but your jokes about Rhodesia are perfectly acceptable that's super weird.

If you can't do it because of scheduling conflicts then I will see if a contributor would like to help us out to get it done quicker.

[Garnascus]

How about we compromise and make it purple?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I love it!

[AmoryBlaine]

Just now, Marlon Phoenix said:

i never said give them short shorts. i've backed up every thread with evidence, please go back and read them. im not going to apologize because you got bent out of shape that I made a joke about Rhodesia that is offensive and bad but your jokes about Rhodesia are perfectly acceptable that's super weird.

If you can't do it because of scheduling conflicts then I will see if a contributor would like to help us out to get it done quicker.

You never said give them short shorts, a lot of people have requested that I make them have short shorts. I have denied this every single time because I do not want the connotation, coupled with the fact that short shorts is out of place for a security uniform in a corporate setting. I don't know what joke you're talking about you having made, all I know is you've been trying to suggest that I am a nazi for most of this thread before editing your posts. You've went out of your way to try and see what I posted about in the past, you've tried to imply I lied about where I got my influences from in order to imply I'm not telling the truth.

I don't know what you're talking about scheduling conflicts. I don't know how to make PRs yet, and I don't have a finished product. I have people in mind of who to ask, and I will ask them when I have something to present.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Just now, AmoryBlaine said:

Those are in context, either legitimate questions pertaining to the conversation and straight-faced jokes.

why are you gaslighting me? You just called them jokes  earlier in the thread. they are right there. i am looking at the posts you are denying exist.

you're being super weird about this and im gunna not respond to your posts anymore lol

[AmoryBlaine]

Just now, Marlon Phoenix said:

why are you gaslighting me? You just called them jokes  earlier in the thread. they are right there. i am looking at the posts you are denying exist.

you're being super weird about this and im gunna not respond to your posts anymore lol

 

12 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

that I made a joke

What joke did YOU make. What are YOU talking about? I'm not fucking gaslighting you, I'm not sure what the fuck you're talking about at all, and I think you're purposely trying to fucking confuse me. I still don't know what fucking propsal you're talking about, either.

[Lady Fowl]

Nothing heavily productive is coming out of this, I would like to ask both of you to be open minded to each others ideas and solutions or I will have to lock this. Both sides here make valid and well concerned points but the hostility and non-productive nature of this needs to stop.

[AmoryBlaine]

Just now, DRagO said:

Nothing heavily productive is coming out of this, I would like to ask both of you to be open minded to each others ideas and solutions or I will have to lock this. Both sides here make valid and well concerned points but the hostility and non-productive nature of this needs to stop.

He's fucking confusing me on purpose and saying shit that doesn't make any sense. I don't know what the fuck he is talking about other than him liking the new uniform I posted, and him trying to assert that I'm a nazi.

[AmoryBlaine]

I already explained everything. I do not know what proposal you are talking about. I do not know what joke you made or why you think I'm having an issue with that joke.

[BoryaTheSlayer]

1 hour ago, Garnascus said:

How about we compromise and make it purple?

I- I mean.... I like purple but... how does that fit in, where does it come from? Why did you suggest it?

[AmoryBlaine]

Again, if whoever is in charge of Necropolis lore wants to change them up entirely, we can change the colour accordingly. But otherwise, it'll just be this once I'm ready and have someone to add it. So, whoever runs Necropolis lore, should be asked.

[Skull132]

Can we remove Soviet imagery while we're here? What is the justification for openly presenting Soviet miliary uniforms (it even has the soviet red star with sickle and hammer lmao) on our wiki while asking for a more ambiguous item of nazi imagery to be removed? Openly displaying imagery from one regime that murdered millions and conquered half of Europe under false pretenses is fine, but from another is not? Excuse me, what.

Now excuse me for dragging politics into this for a moment, but I do find the entire suggestion as proposed to be political in nature. Since the argument presented in the OP is, "Remove this because nazis, lol". Someone on Discord pointed out that the two regimes should be treated differently because one is more relevant today. My initial response, probably unacceptable, was to tell them to fuck off. But allow me to highlight that this issue is one of locality. Russia continues to maintain the foreign policy of denying the Soviet occupation & annexation of Eastern European states, preferring to use the term "Liberation" instead [1] [2] [3]. While this type of political posturing is largely irrelevant to America, I assure you, it is very relevant to countries that fall within the Russian sphere of influence [1] [2]. And if you want a trip, just go looking around r/Europe for posts regarding the Soviets and the now independent ex-Soviet states. There's a good number of dumbasses who buy into this shit, much like there's a good number of dumbasses who buy into neo-nazism in the US.

With this all said. What do I think. Context and application matter. Ultimately the application of specific imagery (basically dog-whistles) in writing is a tool for quickly and effectively conveying certain types of stereotypes and holds. If Necropolis is a crypto-fascist corporation, per:

4 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

"evil space fascist" which I guess is on brand for necropolis sec.

Then a uniform with a red armband is fine? A neo-nazi will find and gush over even generic nazi/fascist imagery regardless of how it's served, and the only way to prevent that is to cut all references to nazism or fascism in our lore. Which is hopefully not where we're going, since it'd be limiting as fuuuck.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Just now, Skull132 said:

Can we remove Soviet imagery while we're here? What is the justification for openly presenting Soviet miliary uniforms

It's a soviet country modelled after the soviet union.

I hate the USSR and think it was pretty imperialist and scummy but this is still pretty cringe. You are better than this argument. Don't whataboutism this.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Just now, Skull132 said:

Russia continues to maintain the foreign policy of denying the Soviet occupation & annexation of Eastern European states, preferring to use the term "Liberation" instead [1] [2] [3]. While this type of political posturing is largely irrelevant to America, I assure you, it is very relevant to countries that fall within the Russian sphere of influence [1] [2]. And if you want a trip, just go looking around r/Europe for posts regarding the Soviets and the now independent ex-Soviet states. There's a good number of dumbasses who buy into this shit, much like there's a good number of dumbasses who buy into neo-nazism in the US.

That really sucks and I hate that.

[Brutishcrab51]

15 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

It's a soviet country modelled after the soviet union.

I hate the USSR and think it was pretty imperialist and scummy but this is still pretty cringe. You are better than this argument. Don't whataboutism this.

 

15 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

That really sucks and I hate that.

Okay but the USSR literally still exists in aurora lore, Necropolis is HQ'd in it

Edited December 19, 2019 by Brutishcrab51
Spelling errors.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Ummm 2 things man

1) you know that just because something is in the lore doesn't mean I agree with it? Especially since im the unathi dev.... Hello?

2) no it doesn't all countries on earth were absorbed into 3 super provinces sorry.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The amount of gaslighting, whataboutism, and irrationality is remarkable. It was specifically said by both the maker of the sprite and the human dev pegasus that Necropolis isn't intended to have nazi themes but also they don't want the uniform removed because it's fine.

I will just actively encourage everyone to call necrosec brownshirts IC'ly since there's so much hostility to swapping out this accidental nazi themerey that both doesn't exists but is also fine I guess.

unless this is swapped out for it:

[AmoryBlaine]

It will be eventually. But I think a lot of people prefer a change in Necropolis' colour scheme to cyan and yellow. I do not want to rob the others who like the Red and Black though. So I don't know what to push for. Perhaps Necropolis should instead be two different companies who have merged but have kept their unique identities seperate. That way khaki cyan and blue can exist along side red black.

[Zundy]

Literally leave it. Side I can see the link but I think it's irrelevant as I for one and clearly many others didn't notice it at all. I think the black and red/khaki uniforms are literally fine. The beret and uniform with gear absolutely look nothing like the brown shirts.

[Gangstafary]

I realised of its resemblance quickly, but didn't notice the armband until today. While (and people know me as a radleftist) I wouldn't really care if it's to represent something akin in our lore, the less reasons 4channers and other fauna have to come around and feel welcome, the best.

[Brutishcrab51]

2 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Ummm 2 things man

1) you know that just because something is in the lore doesn't mean I agree with it? Especially since im the unathi dev.... Hello?

2) no it doesn't all countries on earth were absorbed into 3 super provinces sorry.

under one year ago in a human lore arc that never finished in a manner that very few people ICly agreed with outside of ATLAS (as indicated by the premier of the USSR going to mars to fight atlas politically)

just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it doesn't exist

i love you jackboot