Only allow people ingame to actually vote on transfer

[limette]

So, it's a tale as old as time - you're playing between 5 AM and 2 PM EST, you have a three or four so hour long extended round with maybe 2 or 3 people. A crew transfer vote pops up, and there's 6 or so votes to transfer, and so it triumphs over 2 or 3 - then the next round, nobody who voted 'yes' readys up, there's no engine or engineers, and any RP from the prior round is over. Overall, not a fun experience.

I just don't really get why people who are sitting in the lobby can choose to end someone's ongoing RP and then continue to sit in the lobby. I see it all the time in the morning rounds and it kills the server regularly. I don't think it would be an issue if you had to be ingame to vote, as then you'd either vote 'yes' if the RP was stale or 'no' if you wanted to continue. You wouldn't simply vote 'yes' because... I'm not sure why lobbymains vote on it at all, to be honest.

I can see the merits of allowing people to end a round if they wanna join a new one, or ghosts to call it over since their character is gone, but generally from what I've seen after these votes very few of those who voted actually join.

[Happy_Fox]

Yeah for quieter times of the server when its less populated this would absolutely help avoid these issues. Having it so that people need to either be in the game or have played in it for a while to vote (in case they died in round and to avoid people just joining and cryoing to get a vote) would encourage people to join active rounds as well.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Happy_Fox

[MattAtlas]

Voting for dismissal. This would be extremely awkward and would make a few players in lowpop able to delay round starts for an extremely long amount of time, which to me is undesirable, while being mostly functionally useless on highpop.

I don't think only the wishes of those who play the round matter. People in the lobby also want their shot at playing next round and voting transfer doesn't necessarily mean that they should be locked into playing. If they have sudden obligations to carry out or simply don't want to play because of a subpar ready list, it doesn't matter.

[Peppermint]

This will just kill highpop times in return for more lowpop rounds. People voting transfer are less likely to want to play the current round, so they're not going to join, so pop stays low, and it repeats. May is always a dead time for RP spaces due to exams and the like. 

There's also the issue of people not having the slot they want, folks not wanting to play certain manifests lineups/gamemodes, or those who late join. This would cause plenty of problems in return for maybe fixing an issue for a smaller part of the populace. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Lemei

[Alberyk]

This pr will likely help with this issue: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/11860

[Carver]

33 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

This pr will likely help with this issue: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/11860

Why does this PR seem to punish people who joined the round and then died, the people who benefit most from a transfer vote? Observers from lobby are one thing, but ghosts of the crew deserve full votes.

[Kintsugi]

This suggestion is frankly not the direction the server should be going in. People often have a limited timeframe for when they’re able to play a full round, and at best they’re going to be forced to join the game as a throwaway character in order to participate in the vote that’ll allow them to get that round in the first place. Furthermore, the desires of the people in round do not matter more than the desires of everybody else- sorry, but a vote shouldn’t be worthless or only worth half if you happen to die in round.

[geeves]

PR updated, people who join and died / ghosted / whatever count as a full vote.

[Ricky_the_banshee]

Honestly, I totally get where this comes from. As someone who in the past used to hang out on lowpop hours, it can be frustating when a majority vote overtakes the vote of the few who are actually participating in what appears to be a small-group RP quality time. HOWEVER, I disagree with an enforced implementation of a system that would not only rob people from the opportunity to weight in on matters lets say, wanting to join a NEW round. As previous comments above me already pointed out, it could lead into lowpop rounds hogging up the bridge hours between low-to-mid/highpop because a select few can easily decide "Hey, this is really fun. How about we add ANOTHER hour to the numbers?" 

I assume that this PR was made as a result of people's observer or lobby votes overtaking the wishes of players who were partaking in a round, but again. I see too many negatives outweighting the good.

Quote

This pr will likely help with this issue: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/11860

As for the PR proposed by Geeves. Absolutely NO. Carver pointed out the biggest concern in which players who die as a result of (unfortunate) events of a round being robbed of an opportunity to weight in could possibly demoralize people from even bothering. You could argue that ghosts need to "deal with it" since their participation has been forfeited along with their death, but at the same time, one could argue the same in regards to losing against the observer/lobby people, as the status quo has always been.

The current population flow, as already pointed out, is a result of exam months/people likely dealing with deadlines and work schedules. As soon as late spring/early summer commences, we will likely see an influx of players returning and this entire system would be rendered moot. 

TL;DR I find this thread, despite understanding the concerns, totally worthless on the long run. 

[Ricky_the_banshee]

1 minute ago, geeves said:

PR updated, people who join and died / ghosted / whatever count as a full vote.

Ok, that would be alot more palatable assuming a majority votes for this idea.

[Doc]

On 06/05/2021 at 15:22, geeves said:

PR updated, people who join and died / ghosted / whatever count as a full vote.

Does this mean someone could observe, ghost-role join as a maintenance drone and spend a single minute to repair a single window or wall at 1:55, then get a 'full vote'?

[Carver]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

Does this mean someone could observe, ghost-role join as a maintenance drone and spend a single minute to repair a single window or wall at 1:55, then get a 'full vote'?

That is still participation and not just being afk in the lobby, as well as extremely obvious if they do it close to the voting periods.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Carver said:

That is still participation and not just being afk in the lobby, as well as extremely obvious if they do it close to the voting periods.

It's.. technically participation, yes. But is it really, effectively, any more participation than any other observer that sits in a ghost all round? There's also nothing stopping anyone from doing it at any point throughout the 2 hour round, then netting themselves a 'full vote' for the rest of the round after only spending a minute popping in and out of a maintenance drone.

I definitely don't want to see the idea of popping into a maintenance drone briefly to become against the rules because of this. I use that to test if I'm suffering from lag, bugs, or to test mechanics, and sometimes will only need to pop in for a minute or so to do so, and may not play the round afterward, but may feel the inclination to vote.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Doc

[KingOfThePing]

I dont understand all these voting changes lately. Problems are described that I, personally, almost never experienced, so my understanding here is very limited. Full votes, half votes, X not allowed to vote because of Y, votes being logged, having to play if voted. 

All these changes make something very straightforward (vote for: a) end round/continue round and b) what to play) kind of overly complicated. I personally just almost dont vote at all anymore. Why bother, it's the wrong vote or done in a wrong way anyway, it seems.

[Colfer]

On 16/05/2021 at 03:32, KingOfThePing said:

Problems are described that I, personally, almost never experienced, so my understanding here is very limited.

I completely agree with this. I am going to echo King's words by stating that I honestly see no point to the PR.
because to me it just adds an issue as a fix to a non-existent problem in my eyes. I understand that roleplay is important on an HRP server and that the knowledge of lobby people having the right to change the course of the vote could be impactful, but this will only, in my opinion, lead to subversive behavior and assuming this behavior is punished, could lead to problems.
If somebody joins too close to the vote how do you determine if they are just joining to vote? if it continues and they leave moments before the next vote but stick around to put in their next vote is that subversive? What is the threshold for what seems like suspicious timing to leave after joining and putting in a vote? 5 minutes? 30 minutes? What if they disconnect immediately because they were just testing the lag and were to laggy to join and have no knowledge of this change in the voting system, do they get banned and have to appeal since admins cant talk to them about it?
It just seems like this will either encourage subversive behavior that will make this change negligible, or will add a rule that is too variable to be enforced, not even in clear cut cases