Clearify/Allow Xenoarchiology the Freedom to pilot the Intrepid when they sign on.

[sonicgotnuked]

The only mechanical thing that could be provided is perhaps an access change to the helm door, which is something that can be done with a quick five second PR.

The Issue:

Xenoarchiology is always a role that takes a signifigant amount of time in the process of doing it. Infact, it's a heavy specialized role and the people choosing the title pressumably don't want to not do their job. Sometimes, there is going to be no one interested in going on an expedition. Xenoarchiologists shouldn't be forced to wait for all the stars to align just so that they can finally do their job an hour later when no one is planning on using the Intrepid or even wanting to spend an hour with the scientist. Plus if you dare mention you'll take out the ship, it's most likely you'll be ICly denied.

 

Regardless, at the end of the day, I don't think this is something that "brews roleplay" or interaction. Interaction shouldn't stop someone from doing the absolute core of their job. Even bridge crew have basic thrust power to pilot the ship round start. If xenoarchiology is a job where I waste the majority of my time while jumping through hoops just to dig the latter half of the round, I'm not going to play it. I feel like this would be a similar viewpoint with other people. From what @Yonnimer told me, a xenoarchiologist is able to pilot the ship themselves as it would fall under their skillset. It turns from something which brews interaction to something where multiple hours are wasted if the bridge is refusing to let the Intrepid go because no one is willing to go pilot the ship and be forced to wait on the scientist for an hour while they stomp around on a distant astroid.

[Captain Gecko]

I agree...? Yeah I think I support the idea. I didn't get to find any sort of site worthy of an actualy expedition (can we, yet?) but I'm certain it would be frustrating to miss an opportunity like this... Especially since, putting aside the difficulty and probably lethality of the journey (I don't mind, but I know some people do), it's very often tons of fun, gameplay-wise, and roleplay-wise. Outrunning the Gigaspider/Gigaggreimorian through the dark corridors of an abandonned facility, while characters thinking they won't get out of there a live start confessing stuff they would've never otherwise, only to survive miraculously is hardly something you can get in other situations.

On the other hand, I generally saw expedition as that one extra-dangerous thing that would actually warrant a full team, and as far as I know, the Intrepid is for that. Assuming that expedition are at least just as dangerous with the Horizon, if the Xenoarch can't get enough people to properly crew the ship, then it's probably not going to go well out there...

Still, I think this would be interesting, at least just to test out, see how it goes...

[sonicgotnuked]

11 hours ago, Captain Gecko said:

I agree...? Yeah I think I support the idea. I didn't get to find any sort of site worthy of an actualy expedition (can we, yet?) but I'm certain it would be frustrating to miss an opportunity like this... Especially since, putting aside the difficulty and probably lethality of the journey (I don't mind, but I know some people do), it's very often tons of fun, gameplay-wise, and roleplay-wise. Outrunning the Gigaspider/Gigaggreimorian through the dark corridors of an abandonned facility, while characters thinking they won't get out of there a live start confessing stuff they would've never otherwise, only to survive miraculously is hardly something you can get in other situations.

On the other hand, I generally saw expedition as that one extra-dangerous thing that would actually warrant a full team, and as far as I know, the Intrepid is for that. Assuming that expedition are at least just as dangerous with the Horizon, if the Xenoarch can't get enough people to properly crew the ship, then it's probably not going to go well out there...

Still, I think this would be interesting, at least just to test out, see how it goes...

I'm more or less talking about xenoarch doing the very core of their job: Hitting rocks, finding two beartraps, and getting brain fried by an anamoly. Not necissarrily looking through ruins. 

[Captain Gecko]

Then for normal exavations, I'm not so sure, no. While I'm not very fond of having Xenoarcheology depending on other department to practice their job, due to them not having their own means of space travel, I don't think the Intrepid should be taken just for your regular Xenoarcheology excavations. The point of the Intrepid is still to have a large-ish team onboard, and that rarely happens with regular sorties.

There's still ways to have the Xenoarchs be a tad more independent, but I don't think that this is the one. On another note, I already had proposed a few things there if this can pick your interest. There's no Intrepid in there, but some alternatives are possible.

[Zer0Winds]

I think that Xenoarcheology could use their own shuttle, maybe? I don't know how much room there is, there looked like there was room in the Hangar, but that room might be for off-ship stuff? Anyway, it would cut down on being reliant on either mining (who may or may not let you accompany them), or a bridge crewmember to use the Intrepid (and then forcing the said crewmember to just kinda wait on the shuttle for the xenoarch to do their long digging process, which can be anywhere from thirty minutes to an hour and a half, depending on how thorough the xenoarch is)

The shuttle I would suggest is small. Maybe has like, some crates, floodlights, a small storage area for the large anomalies.

This would be something that the Xenoarch can use to go on their own normal excavations without having to rely on a Bridge Crewmember to use the Intrepid, or using the Intrepid themselves. The Intrepid seems a bit more important than simple excavations anyway, even if Xenoarchaeology is one of the uses of the Horizon.

I've had interesting RP with it, and I've had rounds where I couldn't do my job at all, which while admittedly gave me different RP avenues, and I've worked with it, it would be preferable I think to be able to let them work independently, and have the Intrepid be only for actual expeditions.

[Captain Gecko]

I would honestly love to have some kind of spacecraft for Xenoarcheology, or even just science as a whole, but, as far as I know, it's not supposed to happen, or at least, won't happen anytime soon. Thinking about this, I can certainly see why.

I've been told it's to encourage roleplay with fellow miners, which is good, but coming from separate directions didn't prevent such a thing. We could already roleplay together on the Aurora, so long as we're on the same rock, we should be good. But the thing is that minin/xenoarcheology is much more dangerous right now, than back on the Aurora, coming there together, may be the smarter solution, for now.

And yes I agree, the Intrepid should be for expeditions only, or any other kind of operation that warrants a small crew of its own.

[Zer0Winds]

My only problem is when mining straight up declines the xenoarch passage ICly, which so far, they've been fully allowed. And its easy to see... why.

Its a small shuttle that's already supposed to only fit the maximum amount of miners there are. Add on a Xenoarch (or two rarely), and there's no room. Tack on potentially dangerous anomalies if an Anomalist wants to bring them.

Then, if there's no miners, then that's not an option anyway. Encouraging RP from miners and Xenoarchaeology is good on paper, but in practice, I personally have found it... not doing it at all, actually, I tend to have to use the Intrepid because Mining can't take my Xenoarch, won't take my Xenoarch, or doesn't exist to take my Xenoarch.

Maybe it'll get better, or more streamlined. I'm just using my own experience so far, at least. Maybe I've just been unlucky.

[Chada1]

I love this idea, and I think we should do it, that or give Xenoarch its own, very small shuttle. I'd also love it if Xenoarch could frankly be moved closer to Mining, as in, literally closer. Like a Science sub-department connected to the mining department.

[Arrow768]

I think it would be preferable to either give them their own small shuttle or provide a closer integration with mining.

[Bear]

I personally think their own shuttle would be the best option.

[Dreamix]

1 hour ago, Arrow768 said:

I think it would be preferable to either give them their own small shuttle or provide a closer integration with mining.

5 minutes ago, Bear said:

I personally think their own shuttle would be the best option.

Now the Intrepid is for science to use as they like, and BC/XO have little authority over it (they get the Canary).
This suggestion is kinda outdated now with the Canary being added.

[Bear]

Not really. The Intrepid being yoinked at roundstart by a xenoarch doens't really help others who may want to organize an expedition, go to a different location such as a relay or a wreckage, and so on. It still creates conflict of interests. It would simply be better for xenoarch to have it's own independent shuttle much like mining.

[La Villa Strangiato]

The xenoarch does have its own shuttle. It's called the Intrepid.

[Carver]

I’m under the impression that the Intrepid is a general use shuttle under the discretion of Command, and always was intended to be so from the beginning. If xenoarch yoinks it, then it’s not really feasible for the crew to organize visits to special locations like Adhomai, Konyang and so forth.

Just give them a little shuttle in that hangar slot next to the Canary (or elsewhere on D1), they don’t need an entire RV to themselves (since the Intrepid has curiously evolved into a houseboat in design?).

[Bear]

The intrepid is, as it stands, first come first served for science and command.

[GeneralCamo]

The Intrepid should be removed from Command. The whole point of adding the Canary was to remove the fighting between Command and Science. For Konyang, it would be better to have a dedicated ferry like we had on Adhomai for those events. Not try and squeeze everyone into the Intrepid. 

[Carver]

16 minutes ago, GeneralCamo said:

The Intrepid should be removed from Command. The whole point of adding the Canary was to remove the fighting between Command and Science. For Konyang, it would be better to have a dedicated ferry like we had on Adhomai for those events. Not try and squeeze everyone into the Intrepid. 

Xenoarch truly doesn't need a shuttle the size of the Intrepid. If it was removed from command, then it should be heavily downsized to match the Spark in size and utility and moved to the auxiliary hangar that's rather conveniently aft of Xenoarch itself. As for the Canary, it's far more of a fighter than a shuttle - it doesn't have a true airlock and it fits 4 people at most without magboots. It is inappropriate for Command to utilize as a regular shuttle.

[La Villa Strangiato]

7 hours ago, Carver said:

I’m under the impression that the Intrepid is a general use shuttle under the discretion of Command, and always was intended to be so from the beginning. If xenoarch yoinks it, then it’s not really feasible for the crew to organize visits to special locations like Adhomai, Konyang and so forth.

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Guide_to_Piloting

"While some roles may have the knowledge and ability to fly a certain spacecraft, it is best practice to leave the flying to the dedicated pilot of that craft. For instance, the Intrepid should be piloted by Bridge Crewmen and Xenoarcheologists if possible. The Spark should be piloted by Miners, the Canary by Bridge Crew. Even if your character is capable of piloting a craft due to their role, that does not necessarily give them permission to do so. Try to keep each craft for its intended pilots or purpose."

"[...] the Intrepid, a research shuttle [...]"

"Unless by explicit command order, the shuttles can't be grounded, and it's not even strictly necessary to tell command where you're going. It's nice, however, to give the bridge a heads-up before you leave, and maybe tell them where you are in case of certain disaster. Shaft miners can generally go it alone in the Spark to an away site, and Xenoarchaeologists are capable of taking the Intrepid and setting out alone. However, a large expedition may dictate that Command should send a dedicated pilot, such as Bridge Crewmen, to supervise the ship while the away team is out."

Edited October 9, 2023 by La Villa Strangiato

[Carver]

2 hours ago, La Villa Strangiato said:

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Guide_to_Piloting

"While some roles may have the knowledge and ability to fly a certain spacecraft, it is best practice to leave the flying to the dedicated pilot of that craft. For instance, the Intrepid should be piloted by Bridge Crewmen and Xenoarcheologists if possible. The Spark should be piloted by Miners, the Canary by Bridge Crew. Even if your character is capable of piloting a craft due to their role, that does not necessarily give them permission to do so. Try to keep each craft for its intended pilots or purpose."

"[...] the Intrepid, a research shuttle [...]"

"Unless by explicit command order, the shuttles can't be grounded, and it's not even strictly necessary to tell command where you're going. It's nice, however, to give the bridge a heads-up before you leave, and maybe tell them where you are in case of certain disaster. Shaft miners can generally go it alone in the Spark to an away site, and Xenoarchaeologists are capable of taking the Intrepid and setting out alone. However, a large expedition may dictate that Command should send a dedicated pilot, such as Bridge Crewmen, to supervise the ship while the away team is out."

And dare tell why does Xenoarchaeology require a shuttle larger than the Captain’s Office, equipped with a full infirmary and seating for over ten, dedicated to them - a two slot role whose duties are effectively mining lite? I don’t especially care what this written guide says, it does not excuse two slots hogging an entire massive shuttle when they could easily get something more reasonable akin to the Spark for their own use.

[Shimmer]

17 minutes ago, Carver said:

And dare tell why does Xenoarchaeology require a shuttle larger than the Captain’s Office, equipped with a full infirmary and seating for over ten, dedicated to them - a two slot role whose duties are effectively mining lite? I don’t especially care what this written guide says, it does not excuse two slots hogging an entire massive shuttle when they could easily get something more reasonable akin to the Spark for their own use.

Because the intrepid is there, it's not used nearly as frequently for expeditions and the like as people imply.

If you want to use the intrepid for an expedition you can just talk with the xenoarcheologist using it, I don't understand why we need yet another shuttle exclusive for them.

[OolongCow]

Xenoarcheologists should be following miners around anyway. They get someone to RP with, they consolidate shuttle usage, and they get some of that magic "interdepartmental reliance" that comes up every time someone complains about why their department doesn't get an incredibly obvious QoL improvement (see: why engineering doesn't get circuit printers and why security doesn't even get a single white medkit).

[greenjoe]

2 hours ago, Shimmer said:

If you want to use the intrepid for an expedition you can just talk with the xenoarcheologist using it

The issue there is by The time a expedition is thought of the xenoarch might be long gone with the intrepid

[GeneralCamo]

I should note that science with the NBT was intended to be a full exploration department. Xenoarchs shouldn't be going alone, as it's a science shuttle. There hasn't been forward progress with science since the launch of the NBT however.