Body Cams

[WickedCybs]

As titled. I think body cameras for security could be interesting and gives wardens + less hands-on HoS's something to watch. Imagine actually having a mission control who can talk to officers and guide them around without just having to lean on hearsay.

This would be quite oppressive to antags if implemented straight up, so I think it could be balanced by having the camera cut its feed if the officer goes horizontal, gets crit and so on.

Mainly thought of sec for this but something like expedition cameras on research voidsuits might be interesting too.

[greenjoe]

There is already code in the game for helmet cameras, so I imagine it should not be something too hard to implement

[Garnascus]

Strong disagree. Its an enormous buff to security and improves an area they are already very strong in. 

[Peppermint]

Seems very fun. Cool change for flavor. Would need to be similar to sensors only being on for blue alert though.

[Jaeger Brothers]

That'd be very cool and as it is just the officers sights its just a nice way to Spectate the frontlines and React Accordingly even tho I will miss using the Radio to communicate back and forth and even if an antag is spotted on the bodycam the officer already saw him, its just the same effect plus not everybody is going to watch the Bodycams 24/7 and even if they are and it is a Dangerous antag the Officer still has to walk his ass back to the security armory to get gear and then its basically just a Very helpful spectating camera for wardens ,HoS and Investigator to spectate and Communicate with the officers instead of Guessing what's happening or just walking there and they could like every other camera open up to full security viewing on blue or even be Standard Helmet cameras instead so the Officer has to put the Helmet on on blue for it to even work (The helmet is also easily removeable by antags so if they want to kidnap an officer they can just take off the helmet or get them on green where they can't wear a helmet). ((It'd be damn harrowing to see your officers dead on the Helmet/Bodycam while you flip through))

[GeneralCamo]

This would be good in general for if we do something similar to Konyang again. Having command able to keep track of crew in general is good I feel especially for organization.

[Carver]

I'd support helmet cameras instead, potentially only for armoury/voidsuit helmets (and I guess the Hazard plus Combat Hardsuits and HoS helmet) too so they'd only be seen on higher alerts. Helmets are easier to manage than accessories (which you could put on basically anything) and decidedly less 'current day', so big plus for them. Finally, they have existing (if potentially deprecated) code.

[Mr.Popper]

I like this as something for Warden to do that isn't gunning the antag down. Alternatively, give the Warden an unarmed remote control drone (seriously)

[Kintsugi]

I personally had the idea of adding an investigations version of the camera drone that journalists currently have that would be visible on the security network, but the conclusion that I came to was that giving security any form of camera like this would just be a tremendous nerf to antags - it just becomes all the more impossible to evade detection and dogpiling. I feel more or less the same about this proposal, unfortunately.

Edited June 15 by Kintsugi

[Sneakyranger]

Giving them to bridge crew as optional non-police bodycam-flavored items (e.g just a shoulder cam or something) instead would neatly sidestep the problem of antag balance while giving BCs more opportunity to act as command liaisons for busy command; if nothing else as a command main I know I would find them quite useful since not every round is highpop enough to have a significant command roster. Worth considering, at least, even if there's always the possibility no one else bothers to use it.

[Fluffy]

I would want the body cams if only for the "! turns off the bodycam" meme, however they would need to not work on green, not work in maintenance (the safe heaven of antaggering) below red, not work under a jammer and not work if the person is on the floor or otherwise dead, for it to have any resemblance of balancing

[Sparky_hotdog]

Only way I can see this working is if the vision from the cameras was heavily restricted, as in 2-3 tiles rather than standard 7 tile view. Might still be too strong, but I think that would also give the classic "watching body cams and struggling to get a full picture" vibe. If the entire security team are there, you can probably piece the situation together. If they're on their own, not so much.

Obviously limiting them to blue would be a must as well, as would jamming. I like both of Fluffy's extra suggestions about maintainance and lying down too. Maybe also giving them a really obvious sprite so antags don't try to hold up an officer while standing right in front of a camera too.

[greenjoe]

Having an emissive glow on the camera would be a neat idea and one thing to help it stand out too

[CatsinHD]

I'll be honest, the extent of balancing body cams in the ways people are describing would nuke their usefulness to the point of no one using them (especially the on-body sprite, because drip is more important). The only reason I'd like them is because there are times I can't get an officer to communicate even if I shoved their handheld radio onto always transmit. This way I could at least keep track and continue to give orders as needed without being left totally in the dark.

But as I said from the start. If we're going to add something but nuke it to this extent for balance reasons, just don't add it. It'd be like the tactical coif if the coif had a mechanical advantage beyond drip. Something that's in the armory but no one uses. Or maybe I'm wrong, which might be true. I just don't see the point in a camera that only works on blue, only sees 2 tiles range, and doesn't work in maintenance (where officers end up 70% of the time for a wild goose chase). You could achieve a FAR better result by just... using the camera monitor and using the camera map to track the officers manually.

Now I would LOVE cameras for away-missions. In that case, make them normal helmet/body cameras and make them only work off-ship, but I won't ramble on that.

[Peppermint]

Gonna be honest, I don't care about balance because at this point the server has lost so many RP entrancing features so Johnny The Traitor can take a hostage and demand 1 million credits. That's fine. People like different gameplay loops and I'm not saying my opinion here means any more than anyone elses. Thankfully the server seems to finally be coming around to the idea that antags take away from RP and the system is fundamentally broken for HRP. With odyssey especially, hopefully we'll not need to worry about stuff like this any more.

That said if there are balancing concerns, why not just give everyone access? It could be used as some kind of auditing thing where the crew get to see what security is up to, though with the option to turn them off (albeit against regs without a good reason). If anything that would be a buff to antags who can now see where everyone is at all times, we still get RP through it, and it'd allow the crew to have a constant livefeed of whatever is happening to ensure they can be kept in the loop.

Edited June 15 by Peppermint

[VeteranGary]

I'd say the best way to implement them is just to restrict who can view them really. If this is meant purely for making HoS/Warden better at being able to manage security as a dispatching role, it's fine. Security gameplay is a huge game of telephone and stuff gets bloated out of proportions, mistranslated, etcetera. Having a command/overwatch role that can see exactly what's happening is much better than relying on piecemealing information over the radio. I think giving these, and the option of the officer keeping it on or off is fine. I don't think it's a huge nerf to antags, because if they obtain camera access they have the best way of seeing where security is. 

And I agree with the opinion that there's absolutely no point in adding pre-nerfed additions to the game. If this can't be worked into the balance, then it should just stay out. Rather not have a feature added only for nobody to actually bother using it. 
 

[greenjoe]

11 hours ago, Fluffy said:

not work in maintenance (the safe heaven of antaggering) below red

This feels like it would be really odd to explain ICly

[Dreamix]

Would body cams greatly mess with antag balance? Even with all these nerfs that people propose? I think, yeah.

But even ignoring antag balance, I do not want to see body cams, being a sec main.

I do not want to have a HoS/warden looking at my every move, including any shady stuff or roleplay that I may be trying to do.
I do not want to see less communication and radio chatter, cause the HoS/warden can just look at cameras to see the situation instead.

[Loorey]

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice idea, but even as non-security player I really don't want to see it around, especially not if active and viewable 24/7.

At most you have 2 Investigators, 4 Officers and a Warden to coordinate as Head of Security, that makes 7 people, the cadets will tag along anyway. That's not a lot of people you have to take care of, really not. Add to that, the Head of Security permanently has access to every single security camera anyway - and if they get destroyed, too bad, honestly. If the fight moves to maintenance? Well, too bad. There's a reason there are no cameras there. Yes, you can say this is 'nice to have' because people can watch, but all in all it just slashes away at a lot, especially if HoS players then start forcing officers to wear them or w/e - don't know what the plan on implementation is. Additionally, I've seen antag balance mentioned, which while we still have antags is an issue but not a big one.

Helmet cameras are a thing on colonial marines, you have dozens of marines you can watch over to refine your plan, we are not colonial marines, the fights are usually very manageable with little effort if people don't step out of line.

As a special thing for off-ship missions? Oh, I am all in for that. But for normal day-to-day rounds, no.

[La Villa Strangiato]

I do feel like bodycams would make it even more annoying as an antag to even just hold someone at gunpoint. Imagine being like "HEY STICK 'EM UP" to an officer and they don't go "HELP I NEED BACKUP", but rather any number of officers just look at your body cam and take it as cue to rush to the scene. Yawn.

Bay has cameras on the helmets of voidsuits, which you can access via camera monitoring terminal if you have, well, the appropriate access. I think those would be fun for offship missions, but otherwise I think bodycams are just kind of "blah" as a feature.

[Sniblet]

I’ve played WAY more antag than sec, and I like this. I come from Yogstation, an LRP server where we had accessory body cameras that work just like any other camera - full view range (or was it 5 tiles?), only an EMP cuts it out, etc. The balance is that you need some basic science to print them, and officers will usually decide not to/forget to take one, despite the HoS pressing for it. From my experience, AIs delight in them so that they can follow fights in maints, while no one else cares because everyone including the warden is busy chasing. The antags can typically forget that the feature exists. Aurora will probably look different.

I think that all this really needs is making the cameras optional and unenforceable on low alert (something something “privacy laws” in the year of our lord 2466), maybe putting them under the warden’s charge instead of one in each locker, making them at least visible in examine, and feasible to cut by an antag who’s trying. It’s still going to record a holdup on blue alert, but you can just ask the officer to turn the camera off and toss it over before you pull your gun all the way. It’s the same as handheld radios, but actually a bit less problematic.

If you don’t want it to interfere with your style, um, deal. You’re wearing it because there’s trouble. Full plate will also, as the kids say, flip your fit, yo, but I hear no complaints.

or you can cover it up by wearing it on your uniform slot, I guess.

I care as much about the flavor of breaking the cam as the mechanics, but they go together. Think of cool cinematic times to lose the feed: heavy EMPs and any cult/vampire magic in view could cause a temporary loss, threatening hits to the chest (not a greimorian, but a 9mm) could have a scaling chance to destroy it. Some incidents would recover on their own, some would require a manual reboot (demand a sec card swipe and a channeled cast so it can’t be done midfight), some would destroy the camera completely. Ops can get more.

Yes, making cameras destructible by damage messes with your ability to watch a merc firefight. If you want to sit back and watch your boys get shot from the comfort of your office, I have no sympathy. Tell an officer to stay in cover.

Edited June 15 by Sniblet

[Faye <3]

16 hours ago, Sneakyranger said:

Giving them to bridge crew as optional non-police bodycam-flavored items (e.g just a shoulder cam or something) instead would neatly sidestep the problem of antag balance while giving BCs more opportunity to act as command liaisons for busy command; if nothing else as a command main I know I would find them quite useful since not every round is highpop enough to have a significant command roster. Worth considering, at least, even if there's always the possibility no one else bothers to use it.

This would be SOOOOOOOOO cool for BC!!!! Especially if they worked on the away site.

[Carver]

Reiterating helmet cameras over accessories because the latter are harder to police (Accessories are generally harder to see), harder to justify not using (Helmets are rarely worn outside of emergencies and presumably wouldn't have vision unless worn on the head) and harder to balance around (One can easily only put it on X or Y type of helmet, purposely withholding it from basic-tier helmets, etc.).

Edited June 16 by Carver
typo

[JeffMomentRed]

I'd support cameras on security voidsuits. If I'd extend that support, it'd be to mining/expeditions as well, watching a miner/expedition crew get devastated by xenofauna while I drink a coffee and work ICly would be infinite levels of entertainment, both OOCly and ICly, PERSONALLY.

 It does not seem like something you really need beyond communication and coordination purposes, by that I mean, it won't often be used for further proof as a corporate security officer's word is more often than not, all the proof and valid enough proof in gameplay for a charge to go through. This hinder's the rare ICly corrupt officers' opportunities as well, I think of someone like Elliot Keles( a corrupt officer for those who weren't there ), not being able to work with several gimmicks and other IC interactions, which were, in my opinion, very fun .

To quote Sniblet "I think that all this really needs is making the cameras optional and unenforceable on low alert (something something “privacy laws” in the year of our lord 2466), maybe putting them under the warden’s charge instead of one in each locker, making them at least visible in examine, and feasible to cut by an antag who’s trying. It’s still going to record a holdup on blue alert, but you can just ask the officer to turn the camera off and toss it over before you pull your gun all the way. It’s the same as handheld radios, but actually a bit less problematic." 
I feel it is already tough enough to work around cameras as is, offering balance solutions to body-cameras alone may not be good enough if these are to be implemented. Cameras, as it stands, alert Engineering, Security, and the Artificial Intelligence if they are destroyed and entering certain areas, say the Grauwolf for example, will alert Security to a possible intrusion. If the server wants more antagonist play that isn't just combat, peace-tags, Teleport-Techno, then how cameras function IF body-cameras for security were implemented should probably, once again, be changed. Whatever change to cameras that would hypothetically follow should maybe put more pressure on Antags to generate interaction, as per the servers rules, as it would give them(ideally) alot more wiggle room to play in.

So, otherwise, I'm all for the VOIDSUIT CAMERAS and the benefit they'd have to Expeditions. They, in my mind and without alot of internal reasoning needed, make far more sense and would generate far more interaction than body-cameras. Cybs made a good proposal.

TLDR; Cameras for Security on a server which value an antagonist's ability to generate RP need further changes if body-cams were to be added, so would scrutiny on antags as they are given more freedom(ideally) + voidsuit expedition cameras would be cool(Alien, crew walking to and investigating the Derelict up until Kane is facehugged/Aliens, Marines discovering the hive)

[Peppermint]

Please don't introduce yet another neutered, cut down version of a mechanic we all have to do mental gymnastics (ICly) to justify working weirdly. If we really think there's less RP benefit of including these (with limitations and a way for antags to access which would actually be a buff for any remotely competent ones) vs worrying yet again how horribly unbalanced this was going to be to antag mechanics the server is already trying to remove away from, I'd rather they weren't included at all. It's a big frustration I have with aurora that people are very quick to jump to how awful, unbearable, terrible it is to make 'x' change without even testing it.

Likewise the problems with antags really aren't these camera networks we like to blame. It's also not hard to say 'hey help here' and have 4 officers teleport in to beat down the solo traitor who spent all his TC on 4 weapons and a grenade. Sooner or later the server really needs to accept that this constant pandering to antag gameplay isn't improving anything - we're in the exact same space we were years ago and losing out on features isn't worth it. We have Odyssey coming for a reason.  

If people are concerned about being constantly followed around, just add them to the armory helmets. Though I think that would be a shame.

Edited June 16 by Peppermint