Mixed secret pt 2 electric boogaloo

[Scheveningen]

It wasn't really my impression that all of the game modes would be introduced into their own separate secret rotation rather than just including them into the standard secret rotation to allow for a tuned variety of game modes. As it stands, mixed secret is what you vote if you want the station to devolve into utter chaos. There's a pretty high chance for cult to be rolled among all of the mixed secret game modes, comparable to the other game modes included in mixed secret.

I don't really want to vote for a game mode set that'll be cult 40% of the time (if we're talking on-paper math, the actual ratio might be close to it though) because it is perhaps one of the most common game modes at the moment with the mixed secret changes. I think it would be better off if we did away with mixed secret and just threw all game mode possibilities into one category. This makes the game mode much harder to anticipate and there isn't a stigma where people decide to just not play at all because they can guess that cult is going to be in the mixed rotation among other antagonist game modes.

Play too much of a single game mode and you get absolutely sick of the antagonist type, as well. It would be nice if cult happened every once in awhile equal to all of the other game modes.

[Skull132]

Reiterating my thoughts from Discord:

MS is popular right now. But it's not too surprising, considering it was just added.

Usually these things pass. If it doesn't pass by like, mid-August, then something like this might be worth consideration.

[incognitojesus]

I honestly don't think this is a great decision, especially not right now. Our high population at the moment coupled with the fact that people still can vote for secret if they would like to, and they still do, allows for more people to roll antag and sure, more chaos may ensue, but I haven't heard many complaints about that.

[Azande]

Mixed secret is degrading the level of roleplay on our server. It's very sad that I can't sit down and meet with different crew members as Heads of Staff because I'm managing emergencies every round, rather than your usual single traitor or ling or vampire that doesn't send the entire station into hell.

[Crozarius]

I think that high stress emergency situations promote a different kind of RP. People should pay attention to how their character reacts under stress, and it can be a nice break from chair RP.

Also, mixed secret also has Extended.

Also also. If people wanted to play extended, they can always vote for it.

[AllyBearsley]

As much as I usually find myself hating antags on aurora in general, I don't blame the mixed secret on people voting mixed secret all the time even when it makes no sense to at all (when there are too few people to actually use half the gamemodes). I believe it is as Skull says just a fad that has arisen with the fact its new. It's already worn out its welcome with plenty of people and soon enough I believe everyone will be tired of the station losing 2 or 3 departments every round because "lol mercs (or whoever) gotta blow up chunks of the station". We also no doubt have an influx of newer people who are trying out antags to see what they're like. It's going to be rough for a while and I accept this. It's a little annoying that I have to try to play my down to earth, non-combative, non-heroic, characters as people in distress almost all the time right, but I can still get some genuine moments of char interaction despite this and that to me is very enjoyable.

[Scheveningen]

The constant atmosphere of being forced into an emergency situation barely an hour into the round and for as long as the round lasts either up until the 2 hr mark when all of the antagonists are dead or sooner because the antagonists decided to sabotage the station beyond repair. I would prefer a wider variety of gameplay that isn't a constant high-octane and low-drag. It is notably less fun to have to deal with completely uncounterable situations such as a malf AI sabotaging the engine barely an hour into the round, in addition to traitors and changelings at the same time causing trouble of their own, round after round after round.

Dismissing my concerns about how this reflects roleplay in favor of the excuse that "it's a new system" (it most certainly is not by now) and the bandwagon argument "people vote it a lot so clearly people like it" (most certainly not true, you should hear what people have to say at the end of the round sometimes) is not exactly the response I'd like to hear in relation to these sorts of issues. Especially when the person in particular brushing feedback off has not actually played these game modes out to see the kinds of effects these game modes have on the "meta-game" of roleplay and how rounds typically progress now.

If you've ever seen how aggressive security is forced to play (I do mean to imply that security often has to adopt either an extremely violent reactive response to assault by antag or face the threat of being killed by one of three possible antagonist types in a single possible round) during these types of round types so as to not get killed first, you will know what I mean.

[Crozarius]

The constant atmosphere of being forced into an emergency situation barely an hour into the round and for as long as the round lasts either up until the 2 hr mark when all of the antagonists are dead or sooner because the antagonists decided to sabotage the station beyond repair. I would prefer a wider variety of gameplay that isn't a constant high-octane and low-drag. It is notably less fun to have to deal with completely uncounterable situations such as a malf AI sabotaging the engine barely an hour into the round, in addition to traitors and changelings at the same time causing trouble of their own, round after round after round.

Dismissing my concerns about how this reflects roleplay in favor of the excuse that "it's a new system" (it most certainly is not by now) and the bandwagon argument "people vote it a lot so clearly people like it" (most certainly not true, you should hear what people have to say at the end of the round sometimes) is not exactly the response I'd like to hear in relation to these sorts of issues. Especially when the person in particular brushing feedback off has not actually played these game modes out to see the kinds of effects these game modes have on the "meta-game" of roleplay and how rounds typically progress now.

If you've ever seen how aggressive security is forced to play (I do mean to imply that security often has to adopt either an extremely violent reactive response to assault by antag or face the threat of being killed by one of three possible antagonist types in a single possible round) during these types of round types so as to not get killed first, you will know what I mean.

If Security are changing the way that they act in a round because of the game mode being mixed secret, that's more an issue of Security metagaming to an extent. Until something goes down they should be acting business as usual.

Tons of meaningful HRP can happen in loud, disaster rounds. Just not chair RP.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

A round recently, the wizard and ninja fought a basketball duel to the death. This would not be possible if there was a sole antag. That is one of the many benefits mixed game modes bring.

Oftentimes dual antagonists coordinate a little bit to get a vague theme going. If someone is blowing up the station an hour in, that is an ahelpable offense. The mixed game modes throw usual meta out the window and allow usually impossible interactions between antagonists and crew.

You personally not liking dramatic rounds is not something we should be tailoring entire game mechanics over. If you do not like being security during mixed secret then there are plenty of other departments for you to play in.

You are being dramatic in your description of mixed secret. It does not usually end in explosive destruction an hour in.

[driecg36]

As much as I think mixed secret and mixed gamemodes in general can lead to really exciting, interesting, and unique rounds, I somewhat agree with Delta here. Having almost EVERY round devolving into a warzone gets tiresome, especially if you're a non-combat head and are constantly being targeted (though I haven't had many rounds as a head yet, though every one has resulted in me getting kidnapped, bombed, shot, attacked, etc).

The thing is, while mixed secret can lead to great RP opportunities, especially if the antags have gimmicks where they work against each other (to give the crew a fairer chance), they also often don't have great gimmicks, especially modes like paranoia and siege.

Personally, I think a third option "super secret", where both regular and mixed modes are present, would be nice. So you can have medium intensity rounds with the option of high intensity.

[idioch]

Most of the rounds I tend to play, which are mixed secret, don't usually end up too chaotic. I definitely agree though that cult does have a tendency to pop up alot. Think it was the weekend that I ended up as a cultist 3 times in a row. I'm still new to the game/Aurora so I don't mind the chance to antag, 3 in a row of same one was a little too much. It's a definite sign there is a imbalance to the selection, 3 mixed modes with cultist in it I believe?

If I can make a suggestion though, would it be possible to either add more mixed modes, or to have a secret mode with the potential to have more then one antagonist in a round, but randomized. Maybe going off how many players have readied up?

[sonicgotnuked]

How about we replace cult + rev with traitor + rev?

[Mappel6]

I personally say we create new Mixed round types, especially those that involve traitors (as I really do enjoy being forced to work with my own access and equipment with a few extra items to help me along the way) and a few more three-Mixed modes (rev+merc+raider anyone? no? just me?), as well as implement that "super secret" idea. Then, on round voting, we can both have more variety in the types of gamemodes that are played and maybe even make it to where some of the gamemodes that are currently played multiple times every day only get to go through every other day or so due to the sheer amount of variety that goes in, as well as get an idea every round whether people want large rounds with lots of antags, smaller rounds with fewer antags, or whether they really don't care and just kinda want to be surprised.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

Or how about this: secret and mixed secret are taken off the list, people vote for the round type they want, and the game randomly selects one of the votes to go with. Not announcing which one is chosen would make every round secret, but only with the modes people want to play, and most often with the modes most people want to play. Plus there'd be no need for voting strategies, you just pick the game mode you want and you have a fair chance of getting it.

[Arrow768]

Or how about this: secret and mixed secret are taken off the list, people vote for the round type they want, and the game randomly selects one of the votes to go with. Not announcing which one is chosen would make every round secret, but only with the modes people want to play, and most often with the modes most people want to play. Plus there'd be no need for voting strategies, you just pick the game mode you want and you have a fair chance of getting it.

 

Funny Fact. We talked about that a few days in the dev discord.

Its one of the options that might be explored in the future

[Skull132]

Or how about this: secret and mixed secret are taken off the list, people vote for the round type they want, and the game randomly selects one of the votes to go with. Not announcing which one is chosen would make every round secret, but only with the modes people want to play, and most often with the modes most people want to play. Plus there'd be no need for voting strategies, you just pick the game mode you want and you have a fair chance of getting it.

 

Before mixed gamemodes I was against this.

However, now we have such a fucking myriad of options that it might just work out.

[Arrow768]

Mixed secret is gone.

Into the bin it goes.