A new breed of traitor...

[Not Megatron]

Today's traitors are weak, spineless, and outdated. We need a departure from the janitor who brought a gun to school, that guy you have drinks with every day suddenly a criminal mastermind, the psychiatrist randomly developing a sadistic quirk. For many players, their characters have such personalities that prevent them from being traitors. A friendly barkeep or veteran NT employee would have no reason to turn against the people who sign their paychecks. I'll stop rambling and get to the suggestion.

I propose a new traitor system in which, when a player rolls traitor, they do not spawn as their selected character, but a randomized spaceman. Obviously, it'll be selectively randomized so picking out the traitor isn't as simple as finding the man with green pigtails.

This will allow more variety in the types of traitors we can play, less of the cargo tech gone postal, and more of the foreign agent sent to do evil. If this is a toggleable option in the preferences, players will still be able to choose if they prefer this new antag, or if they still want to play their seedy doctor who's had enough.

If this were implemented, it may also benefit from a sub-feature of factions for these random traitors. These different factions may vary in motivation, preferred style of traitoring, and even available equipment. A stealth oriented faction might have a few extra stealthy items, and maybe even discounts on preexisting stealthy items. A more violent faction might have some unique weapons with cool sprites and higher damage, to list a few examples.

tl;dr: Randomized traitors. IC, they're foreign agents who snuck onto the Aurora. They might have factions for variety.

[NoahKirchner]

This is a good idea methinks.

[Wesmas]

It sounds good, though I am unsure on some level. Because we will still notice new names, which we will be more sucpicious of.

[BRAINOS]

I support the heck outta this for sure, I love the idea of being able to roll traitor without having to break my character in some way.

Especially as an option.

Even having it pick a random job when you roll this traitor type would be exciting.

I'd actually antag if this were an option.

[Synnono]

This is an interesting idea, though I lean on the side of players being responsible for their motivations, rather then being fed an objective by the game. Playing to satisfy an objective system encourages playing to win, which we are supposed to discourage here. Also:

 

For many players, their characters have such personalities that prevent them from being traitors.

 

Players who voluntarily flag for Traitor should be prepared to play their character in ways that are not consistent with their canon character's behavior in order to be a satisfying antag. It's the same way people can learn to enjoy Cult or Rev, except in this case the choice is almost 100% theirs as to when to play it. Breaking character is sort of the point of being a traitor and some other antag types as well. You are (or become) something that others do not expect you to be, and you use that to your advantage to antagonize the crew.

If this did get implemented, I'd also like it to remain an option or possibility for a known character to roll Traitor, as the impact of a known personality betraying co-workers/friends can be greater than that of Johnny or Janey Come-Lately. Maybe an additional flag in Character Setup, giving a player the option to be a somebody or a nobody?

Edit: I read your OP again and see that you've already accounted for this last bit. Sorry!

[Diggey]

I like this

especially as an option not as a must

maybe an option to set up an antag variant in the character creator?

such as writing in medical records and the like for your antag for believability when someone checks

you know,the whole shebang!

[driecg36]

If we can still pick our regular characters for this, I agree with it.

Every character I have traitor/antag enabled has a reason why for that antag type (except types like vampire and ling, or types where you make a new char, like merc or ninja).

I think this should also be a thing for vampire, which suffers from the same problems aforementioned.

[Not Megatron]

It sounds good, though I am unsure on some level. Because we will still notice new names, which we will be more sucpicious of.

I'm glad someone said this. I'm "borrowing" this idea from an old server I used to regular on, and when they were discussing it, I brought up this exact point, and argued it pretty hard, but once it was finally implemented, I ended up not always noticing, even when they were in my own department. And even if you do notice, OOCly, I imagine anyone who uses that information ICly will get cracked down on pretty quickly.

 

This is an interesting idea, though I lean on the side of players being responsible for their motivations, rather then being fed an objective by the game. Playing to satisfy an objective system encourages playing to win, which we are supposed to discourage here.

I hope I haven't given the wrong impression with the factions, which I assume is what this is about. I'm not suggesting the factions be given objectives and goals to complete, but rather a suggested playstyle for each faction. You have been sent by the Hidden Dagger clan. Allow no witnesses! You are an agent of the Placeholder Corporation, subtlety is for scrubs! You have been sent by the shadowy Blank Group, who abide by a strict code of non-violence, etc.

 

I think this should also be a thing for vampire, which suffers from the same problems aforementioned.

I like it, but the only reason I wouldn't want to see it is because it may detract from its uniqueness, so to speak. Vampires are perfectly serviceable already, but traitors are in dire need of some spice.

[Not Megatron]

Also, I'm bumping this suggestion because it was largely forgotten about and I still think it's a good idea.

[Bauser]

Why are people supporting this

This is a terrible idea

If this suggestion was put into place, then every player would immediately know that persistent characters AREN'T the traitor. And pretty much EVERYBODY plays a persistent character. So, by process of elimination, every traitor round you would know that the antagonist is one of only a couple people who you've never seen on station before.

[Ornias]

If this suggestion was put into place, then every player would immediately know that persistent characters AREN'T the traitor. And pretty much EVERYBODY plays a persistent character. So, by process of elimination, every traitor round you would know that the antagonist is one of only a couple people who you've never seen on station before.

If this is a toggleable option in the preferences, players will still be able to choose if they prefer this new antag, or if they still want to play their seedy doctor who's had enough.

 

read post b4 commenting pls

[driecg36]

I like this suggestion a lot.

On top of that, I see no problem with new names being less trustworthy than old ones.

I think to smooth out the edges of the randomized appearances, the traitor should have like a one use pocket surgery machine, or just an round start customizer like off station antags get.

[Saudus]

I really like it, I never play antag anymore because I can't get it to fit with my main chars and this would solve my issue.

The way I see it it can either be done by having additional things to toggle and fill in char setup,

or they don't spawn regularly but in some place where they can customize their char similar to mercs etc before getting to the station somehow.

No idea which is easier or better.

[Coalf]

HRP takes effort, it's not easy and everyone has to put in effort to make it enjoyable.

Go roll traitor, go make a character that has a reason to be a traitor, go make a character who wants to stick it to the man, who is unhinged, who is absolutely mental.

I mean what stops you?

"I would have to think of a new backstory", well wouldn't you anyways even if you were assigned a rando?

"I'd have to think of a reason to do it", well wouldn't you anyways if you were assigned a rando?

"I'd have to start making relationships all over again", well wouldn't you anyways if you were assigned a rando?

These new traitors aren't going to take you hostage, they're going to blow your head off in maint.

These new traitors aren't going to re-consider their plot as you give them your heartwarming speech, they'll shove a shotgun in your mouth.

These new traitors aren't going to plan how to avoid capture only to make a slip-up and get caught by the long arm of the law, they're going to call you a retard and explode 5 minutes into the round as you're discussing if vests on green are valid.

To summarize, this is a mechanic that seems more like "You use it, I don't play traitor" mechanic.

Something for everyone else but you and your character so you have easy targets to plink away at who (in the hopes of creating mass destruction) include you in their RP just from the amount of ruckus they cause.

Thus, a no, this is just as dumb as giving people objectives, you want better traitors? Become one.

[BurgerBB]

There is a good idea from this. I suggest making it a choice to play another character as traitor or play the current character you rolled as traitor. This would allow more control over the gimmick people chose if there is a slot open for it.

Edit: Oh goodness, I didn't read the thread. This is exactly what people are proposing. I assumed it was totally different from the people talking shit on discord.

[EngineersDream]

Eh, I don't know if I like that traitor idea. But as an optional thing... yeah, I guess. Though I usually find it more interesting if people put a new (temporary) spin on a character you probably know in some capacity.

[Zaeperry99]

While I do like the premise of this, there is one big thing that kills it for me.

As a frequent medbay player, it takes actual genuine effort not to immediately distrust new names. Most of the decent doctors are already well known and seeing a new surgeon/medical doctor/resident immediately creates a premonition of 'This person is probably going to be incompetent.' The same goes for any other department I've played in, but the medbay is my go-to example. While that isn't too harmful in its own right, I feel like this addition would likely reinforce it. A new name is liable to be either (a) incompetent or (b) a traitor rather than just incompetent. Even with the best attempts at remaining unbiased from metagaming / powergaming it does still influence people's judgment, and I fear this would just reinforce that.

[Coalf]

Skull had a much, MUCH better suggestion in the discord.

A) DIsguise kits to change your characters apperance.

B) Have a menu pop-up before the round starts that asks you if you want to play a different character.

[AmoryBlaine]

[mention]Coalf[/mention] , how's this sound?

Traitors now spawn at the Odin, in the washroom, they have a chance to see each other as they leave. You can either stick with your normal name, and appearance, or swap it up like Merc/Raider set up.

[Trazz666]

I like this idea. I also like the idea of being able to toggle a specific faction. However, I believe faction 'goals' should be vague/generic ideas instead hardliners objectives. As much as I miss objectives, Aurora as a whole has drifted away from them.

The only thing I can see that might be an issue is the randomized appearances and names. On one hand, if they're too random, it's easy to spot a traitor if they have neon purple balding hair, yellow eyes, and dark skin. Too predictable, and people will start subconsciously start to memorize appearances and names of traitors.

All in all, a great idea if implemented correctly.

[Bauser]

read post b4 commenting pls

 

I know what he wrote. Keyword "IF." And it's way too important a distinction to be an IF.

[Coalf]

@Coalf , how's this sound?

Traitors now spawn at the Odin, in the washroom, they have a chance to see each other as they leave. You can either stick with your normal name, and appearance, or swap it up like Merc/Raider set up.

 

The issue still lies within the very lowRP potential, again this system seems to be made FOR traitor players but not FROM traitor players.

Nobody is going to miss a rando dying, the same applies for the player playing that rando, they're going to be bombers, mass shooters and butchers something people ahelp quite a lot when it happens as it's hard to RP with a cardboard cut-out you were assigned 5 minutes into the round.

If the character assigned is given no effort, the player is not going to put effort into it either, as we can see in Mercenary/Raider where the "muh low RP" complaint comes in very often and imagine those type of 5 minute characters having to survive in a 2 hour long round with people who put literal MONTHS into their own characters.

No, this goes fundamentally against what traitor is. Traitor is supposed to evoke paranoia as you cannot trust your co-workers who have been with you for entire years. This is going to elevate that frustration partially or even fully.

Further factions would do absolutely nothing besides providing an objective for people to bilndly complete to get greentext, imagine a traitor who just steals the teleporter and doesn't do anything ever again.

Or just randomly runs into your department from maint and shoots your ass up without a word because you happened to be the objective.

Sure two or three objectives that force you to kidnapp someone and break their limbs, but really does that single potentially good objective justify anything?

[Eve]

The gimmicks would be weak

Traitor rounds are great when people actually take advantage of character relations

But I'd suggest that if someone rolls traitor, they should have A CHANCE of renaming re-modifying their character

But, yeah

[AmoryBlaine]

[mention]Coalf[/mention][mention]Eve[/mention] Maybe just have a 15+ TC 'Nanobot reconstruction' kit, that lets your change your appearance. Try and be a massshooter no-name when you're down to less than half your TC. Forces you to be more stealth oriented and shit.

[Coalf]

As suggested by Skull, yes it sounds acceptable however I'd probably reduce the cost to 10 or 8 TC as that already disables any effective shootings sprees and instead encourages anonymous fuckery.