[Denied] Coalf's Head Lore Manager Application

[Coalf]

Ckey/BYOND Username:Coalf

Position Being Applied For (coder, mapper, spriter): Head Lore Manager

Past Experiences/Knowledge:

I've been moderating this server for longer than I've been a player at this point, I've dealt with plenty of ahelps regarding lore issues, character development and such details.

Alongside that I used to mentor on BestRP which also required a staunchable role experience along with species knowledge.

Lastly I'm part of the crew that manages head whitelists, thus I already have experience with it.

Examples of Past Work:

The fanfiction forum, while underused, is originaly an idea born of my head for people who want to leak their creative potential but don't want to be choked by lore restraints.

I can count myself to one of the proud members who helped bring Fred104's Dominia into not only official lore but creating a major faction out of it as the original idea of a tribunal, mindwashed populus and "tolerate our enemies beyond our borders" came from a brainstorming session we've had.

I've also provided feedback on many applications wherever I could and working as a Head Whitelister gave me additional experience in how to truly judge people.

Preferred Mode of Communication (Skype, Steam, etc.):

Discord, BYOND pager, Forums are the best

Additional Comments:

Yes, this is a serious application, yes I wish to replace Jackboots, no I don't want to turn this into a smear campaign against JB so please stay on topic.

And to people asking why I'm doing this.

 

 

Because yes, I do think I can do a better job.

[Zundy]

What plans do you have re management of the team? Have you managed a team before?

[Conspiir]

I'll be honest. I'm uncomfortable with this. Very, very uncomfortable with this. For two major reasons.

The first reason is you aren't a part of the lore team right now. So you don't really know what it is their secretly planning behind their closed doors of lorewriting solitude. Well I mean, you probably have some idea. But enough to lead a team? I don't think so and I have no proof of any tangible kind that you do.

The second reason is I do not see you as an impartial person. Maybe it's all the bashing Vaurca and the vibes you haven't actually... read the lore you now want to help manage. You even admitted it. Right over here. http://viewtopic.php?f=120&t=9346#p86420. Even calling them drooling retards. (http://viewtopic.php?f=120&t=9346#p86411) I don't want THAT person leading the lore of the station. I'm concerned THAT person will ACTUALLY delete every race except humans, and not just as a notveryfunny joke.

[Coalf]

What plans do you have re management of the team?

 

I've thought about this for quite a while and realized one thing that seriously needs to be done and that's numbers.

The fact is only the lore team has not changed since the year 2014, the 2014 where this server got on average about 20 people.

This numbers has DOUBLED and the amount of lore we now have has basically tripled.

The wiki has for a long time been un-manned, forum is scattered with out-dated or outright false information and lore writers aren't always available to answer questions.

Thus I'd hope to create a sort of "Additional Loredev" rank to be implemented, these people will help with whitelists, updating wiki pages specifically aimed at their expertise and helping with debating and creating lore.

Everyone on the team most likely has someone a "Plan B", someone they trust and know understands the lore and discuss it with them in private in order to get good, honest opinions. I hope to get these people into the proper places so they can help without stealing the spotlight from the maintainers.

Times change and we have to with them.

Have you managed a team before?

Actual team of adults? No.

 

The first reason is you aren't a part of the lore team right now. So you don't really know what it is their secretly planning behind their closed doors of lorewriting solitude. Well I mean, you probably have some idea. But enough to lead a team? I don't think so and I have no proof of any tangible kind that you do.

Neither did you have any tangible idea that I wasn't going to just randomly ban people when I was put into mod-position.

Same applies to me being a head whitelister, I can abuse that position very easily, I would assume it would take weeks before someone discovered I was un-whitelisting players randomly or just giving my metabuddies whitelists.

It's about trust, if you don't trust me well then I have failed you as a person and maybe in the future I'll fix that, I can't really say anything that would change your mind besides "I swear I'll be good boi".

 

The second reason is I do not see you as an impartial person. Maybe it's all the bashing Vaurca and the vibes you haven't actually... read the lore you now want to help manage. You even admitted it. Right over here. http://viewtopic.php?f=120&t=9346#p86420. Even calling them drooling retards. (http://viewtopic.php?f=120&t=9346#p86411) I don't want THAT person leading the lore of the station. I'm concerned THAT person will ACTUALLY delete every race except humans, and not just as a notveryfunny joke.

Well now I fell insulted.

No I don't plan on deleting the vaurca, frankly I know they aren't drooling retards, I read the lore I actually read the lore after YOUR fanfictions JUST to see what the hell is so great about them, I didn't find it.

I don't like Unathi lore that much either and I quite often disagree with Jackboots on things, I also dislike some faucets of human lore again I disagree against those too.

I also say glass adhomai, human pride galaxy wide, hail dominia and fuck synths.

Doesn't mean I want to delete those.

They're a hated minority, they fill their niche purpose better than any unathi or Tajara could, I feel like they're a bit hamfisted into our universe to be relevant but I don't plan on fiddling in that.

The only true issue I have is bound and their abuse as basically lawless borgs. But no I don't plan on changing vaurca in any way as ByGoneHero seems to be gripping the reigns firmly and reducing the amount of chucklefucking to minimum.

[Conspiir]

Neither did you have any tangible idea that I wasn't going to just randomly ban people when I was put into mod-position.

 

There's a difference between applying to be a mod (in which you undergo supervision of a trusted admin prior to being fully accepted, and are constantly among your peers who will call you out) and applying directly for a Head Admin job with no prior experience. It's very arrogant to think just because you believe you can do a better job than this other person, it precludes all experience and understanding of the position. People don't just wave that aside. Unless you're Trump.

And don't feel insulted. I'm giving valid reasoning and criticism as to why you shouldn't be leading the lore team. That's why replies are allowed on this forum, after all. If you have thoughts on how to improve the lore team, there's a suggestion forum. If you have a complaint on how Jackboot's handling the lore team, there's a staff complaint forum. If you want to help write lore, there's a lore canonization forum. If you want to be on the lore team as a member, even, there's this place right here. But jumping directly into a leadership position without any tangible evidence of you being any better than the current holder of the position, I just don't see happening.

[Coalf]

Yes and if you want to become part of the lore team, there is this forum, which I'm on.

To quote myself

"It's about trust, if you don't trust me well then I have failed you as a person and maybe in the future I'll fix that, I can't really say anything that would change your mind besides "I swear I'll be good boi"."

As I said, I accept your criticism, I accept not everyone here trusts me, I accept not everyone here likes me and I accept this was sudden.

It's the nature of the world.

Yet it is also extremely petty to respond to criticism with "do it yourself" or "this is silly", he wanted me to do it myself so here I am, trying to do it myself.

I accept there is someone more qualified than me with a better plan too, and I sincerely hope that this stirs enough waves for them to apply instead of me so they can try it and see what they can do.

In the meantime, I'm here in their stead and maybe with practice I'll become that qualified person.

[AllyBearsley]

I have very high doubts this will go through; however, I am glad this was made in a serious effort. People put a lot of meme junk on Coalf, because he memes a lot. However, he is someone who cares about the server, it's lore, it's players, and roleplay. I feel too few people really care about roleplay. I think Coalf would actually take the role very seriously and work with people in a very nice way. I actually believe Coalf should be an admin, but that's a topic for another thread.

I like the idea with increasing the lore team to have more people to handle lists and consolidate things. I feel the current team is too careful with its secrets and just lets so much fall apart because they wanna keep a secret until their grand reveal. I think opening up a little more would be good. Working with more people would be good. I hope that something comes of this so we don't constantly stagnate with the camps that are forming around this server.

I had a question and I lost it. Maybe it will come back to me soon.

[Snakebittenn]

How will you handle lore appearing ingame?

[MattAtlas]

What plans do you have re management of the team?

I've thought about this for quite a while and realized one thing that seriously needs to be done and that's numbers.

The fact is only the lore team has not changed since the year 2014, the 2014 where this server got on average about 20 people.

This numbers has DOUBLED and the amount of lore we now have has basically tripled.

The wiki has for a long time been un-manned, forum is scattered with out-dated or outright false information and lore writers aren't always available to answer questions.

Thus I'd hope to create a sort of "Additional Loredev" rank to be implemented, these people will help with whitelists, updating wiki pages specifically aimed at their expertise and helping with debating and creating lore.

Everyone on the team most likely has someone a "Plan B", someone they trust and know understands the lore and discuss it with them in private in order to get good, honest opinions. I hope to get these people into the proper places so they can help without stealing the spotlight from the maintainers.

Times change and we have to with them.

 

I actually really like this proposition. I do think we need more than one loredev due to a plethora of things, but they're not to be mentioned here.

Now, do I support Coalf's application here? The short version is, yes, I do. I trust his writing abilities and his knowledge of lore, and I trust him to handle the position well. Do I have anything else to say? No, everything else was already addressed, and I only wanted to get my (albeit short) feedback in.

However, I do have one question - we currently have a lot of stagnating things, be it lore development or the newscasters. What are your plans to cover loredev inactivity, or stagnating issues such as the newscasters or some of the wiki pages?

[Coalf]

However, I do have one question - we currently have a lot of stagnating things, be it lore development or the newscasters. What are your plans to cover loredev inactivity, or stagnating issues such as the newscasters or some of the wiki pages?

I like the idea with increasing the lore team to have more people to handle lists and consolidate things. I feel the current team is too careful with its secrets and just lets so much fall apart because they wanna keep a secret until their grand reveal. I think opening up a little more would be good. Working with more people would be good. I hope that something comes of this so we don't constantly stagnate with the camps that are forming around this server.

 

These two kinda fall in together so I'll group them up.

The answer is cutting excess threads.

The forum is full of red herrings, debunked lore or just things that are plain wrong and as you said we have newscasters that are kept alive simply because Jackboot himself is updating them.

This circles back to more Lore Writers, more writers means more ideas, more ideas mean more materials and more material means more news to report.

For example the Bieselite times was an excellent idea, but it's hard to make someone write minor articles about a city on Biesel when they can't bring themselves to write an article about their own entire species once a month.

Now we can say "Well they're just human," correct but if they had someone who they could rely on, who could help them with this it wouldn't be such a problem, thus we come back to increase of loredevs.

I don't plan on deleting outdated or un-used newscasters as they can be used later.

The wiki itself is in a steady uphill climb, ever since we've had that wonderful wiki team they've taken full reign and started working the wiki into being an actual wiki instead of a labyrinth.

But lore writers should be responsible for their own wikies, this is why I wish once again to split power as updating the wiki for ALL the human factions has to be an exhausting task each time the lore shifts.

[MattAtlas]

That answer satisfies all I had to ask really, I don't have a problem giving you my full approval after how you answered my question.

[Coalf]

How will you handle lore appearing ingame?

 

A very short but perhaps the hardest question here.

The main issue I think is that we push things in bulks in these "Antag events."

The thing is to a (I dare say) majority of players this doesn't matter, they played with a traitor that had a gimmick yesterday but they should care about this traitor now because someone OOCly said that this weeks he's special?

I personaly think we should stop striving for these "Bulks" of massive events and focus on having semi-regular antag/lore events atleast once or twice a month.

The fact is not everything is station shattering and not every lore event has to involve the station exploding, I applauded the foreshadowing in the newscasters before but now i'll curse it, we can use this foreshadowing ON THE STATION.

Simply arrange yourself an extended round and move in for trade negotiations, if the captain is too much of a dickhead well that will affect the station in the future.

It puts weight behind player actions, implies there are consequences and struggle that they're part of, instead of the narrative going to the left while the playerbase wants to go tow the right.

For example the last antag contest, you know who won MAJORITY of the actual events? Anti-synths.

But pro-synths won anyways, why? Well from the sheer number of normal traitors fulfilling their objectives! This isn't engaging, that's just annoying, everyone who fought, roleplay and stubornly fought in those objectives was outclassed by someone who stood in a lobby with a "Protect X IPC" objective.

Additionally the issue is, the station itself isn't important enough, Phoron as a resource is being skimmed over as everyone "having reserves" and there being atleast 2 other reliable sources of phoron making the station itself un-important and thus giving less reasons for antags to do antag stuff in there.

With that I'd like to increase the importance of phoron, either by making it simply more scarce which would require price adjustments, making it be only available in the romanovich cloud (which sadly impacts other lore) or simply making the station not be about phoron but about something else although this last one is a bit too drastic and something that I'd only consider as a dream.

[Coalf]

Addendum: The bug with "Protect X robot" was still patched out yet still events played second fiddle to the normal antagging we see every day, this is not how it should have been.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

How many lore devs will handle a single species and have authority overwhitelists? How SPLIT will whitelist management be if there are 2 Skrell devs and 2 Vaurca devs, for example? How will you manage the clash between whitelist expectations from each species maintainer?

How would you encourage activity from lore developers?

How would you respond to loredevs sliding into inactivity? What level of IRL/loredev relationship do you ask of lore developers? How active should a dev be?

How much autonomy are you comfortable giving to lore developers for creative projects? If something chaffs against your vision, would you rather the lore developer's plan change or yours?

HOW do you plan on improving transparency of the lore team's processes?

What is your stance on accessibility vs depth? Forum news stations serve as IC reboots played straight (the first ever arc was a Unathi arc effectively rebooting Ouerea's ownership) or filler that is meant to make the galaxy feel like it is breathing outside the station. Parts of it impact the Aurora, but the Aurora is not the center of the universe. By having the news that doesn't directly impact the station but which shows our Orion Spur sector going through various situations, people can feel like they are coming to the Aurora from some situation going on. The most recent big thing, the Martian independence movement, did not directly impact the station but many players loved it because it impacted their Martian characters. There was a rout from ATLAS characters and there was a lot of development for these characters.

I think you are conflating the idea of Aurora being the end-all be-all for characters. The conversation that was the catalyst for you making this thread was when you said that all the elections we had in the past should have been done on the station, rather than as abstracted polls on the forum. I disagreed with this and still do. You are a radical ICer in terms that you have always argued the vein that the only real things that matter are what exists on our z-levels.

Wiki development is also very active, and more active than it has been in a long time. The only caveat is that wiki maintainers do not directly write lore to be put on the wiki without asking about it real quick first. But [mention]AllyBearsley[/mention] has pretty much full autonomy and a blank check to do whatever the wiki needs. It's also incredibly easy to become a wiki maintainer. [mention]SeniorScore[/mention] was angry about the wiki mistakes and I told him to apply and he got the job in like 5 minutes. The lore development team is already incredibly accessible. I can only say that one area of improvement is scream like a banshee to startle the players and make them aware of the tools I am trying to hand them. Namely: more advertisement.

 

The forum is full of red herrings, debunked lore or just things that are plain wrong and as you said we have newscasters that are kept alive simply because Jackboot himself is updating them.

Isn't more material going to make this more of an issue? Lore developers who are not species developers are basically writing lore canonization apps without anyone ever really seeing the app. If you hired everyone who posted a lore canonization app you would have to manage all of these new ideas and materials retroactively rather than proactively. How would you manage this?

[coolbc2000]

I would like to point out that there's no Protocol for this.

The Loreteam will all have to call a no-confidence vote against Jackboot and Jackboot ofcourse will get a say in this. Jackboot has no direct superior per say as Garn or Skull do not have any authority over the Loreteam. Coalf will have to wait until he gets kicked out of the Loreteam or he resigns himself. Just my two cents in it, you don't hire a person who does not code to be leading a team of coders, or a person who has no moderation experience directly promoted to Headmin.

So hey, maybe you could join the loreteam as something else

Edit: It's probably just to prove a point anyway. Jackboot needs to do more and what I've heard there's been over 500 messages in the lore chat on how to improve the lore. So hey, it's already gained traction.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Guest

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Skull is my direct supervisor. Head Loredev serves at the pleasure of the head dev.

[coolbc2000]

Skull is my direct supervisor. Head Loredev serves at the pleasure of the head dev.

 

I stand corrected. My little bird is a cunt.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Edit: It's probably just to prove a point anyway. Jackboot needs to do more and what I've heard there's been over 500 messages in the lore chat on how to improve the lore. So hey, it's already gained traction.

 

I do not think even Coalf will want to read 500 messages of discord logs every day. I always plead with people to post on the forums where their feedback or ideas are visible and accessible. Our community is so large that the player discord is a cacophony of white noise. I can only see what I am physically there to read or mentions, and I am mentioned all the time. It's just so much.

[Coalf]

How many lore devs....

How many lore devs will handle a single species and have authority overwhitelists? How SPLIT will whitelist management be if there are 2 Skrell devs and 2 Vaurca devs, for example? How will you manage the clash between whitelist expectations from each species maintainer?

A new rank would be established, a lore deputy that deputy would be directly under a lore maintainer as a rank.

This creates multiple things:

A: Discussion, if two people are responsible for something they're inclined to talk and influence each other and since lore writers are likely to vote people who they like they most likely won't fight over petty things.

B: Safety, if someone becomes sick/drops out/quits etc. there is a plan B, the deputy can report to me if the lore maintainer is offloading all their work on them and the maintainer can tell me if the deputy is being lazy.

C: Distribution, work will be distributed and actually done currently there is 3 of us in whitelist managment, none of us is directly superior to the other in opinion, only rank and we distribute our work equally, If I'm hiring someone I trust them enough not to slack off.

Of course this system seems cheeky perfect but again it lacks something, reliable people, thus while this would be the IDEAL thing, it is most likely improbable.

Perhaps a lore assistant would be possible, someone akin to a mod who handles the smaller news, dusts off old lore and generally helps around everywhere.

Another possibility would be to simply put in unspecific lore writers, like Muncorn who as far as I know doesn't actually have anything specific under his arm yet still works and helps, this way people could once again "Share the load"

STILL while this idea is central it NEEDS work and organization, testing, trialing etc. I accept that something like this won't happen overnight and I'm prepared to sink in the time.

Lastly, I see you posting a lot in stead of your own maintaners and you've never spoken out about having any problems with Cake or Loow and if there is going to be a clash? Good! It prevents people from accepting people "just because" or denying them for the same "just because" again making discussion, churning the lake, bringing in the blood and ideas.

How would you encourage activity.....

How would you encourage activity from lore developers?

I can't do that. If a person joined because he likes a species and has a passion wanting to see it improved and grow, well then he's more than welcome to try.

I could expect someone seizing power in moderator staff and just sitting on that seat doing nothing, but in something that requires creativity like Lore Writers? If you joined lore writers you most likely want to write, there is no real power to abuse besides maybe changing a species which in itself is lore writing so you're still doing your job.

 

How would you respond to loredevs sliding into inactivity?....

How would you respond to loredevs sliding into inactivity? What level of IRL/loredev relationship do you ask of lore developers? How active should a dev be?

That's why I wish to increase staff count, if I have more staff I have more people to fall back on and go "Okay, this person is busy, you help him.".

Otherwise? Talk to them, ask them what's up, if they expect to be gone for longer than 2 months, remove them and put someone new on. Perhaps when they return they can apply for lore writer again and become part of the team.

While removing sounds crude, if someone is doing nothing they're taking up space.

 

How much autonomy are you comfortable giving....

How much autonomy are you comfortable giving to lore developers for creative projects? If something chaffs against your vision, would you rather the lore developer's plan change or yours?

I should be the seal but not the letter.

If I don't want something I'll ask the others, they'll give their opinions and I'll decide based on that, perhaps I'll still think it's a bad idea and deny it or perhaps I'll change my opinion.

But if something cannot be decided, if nobody comments or if people split 50/50 then I'll probably discuss things in private, have a heart to heart and see what is his stance on it and why is it so important to him that it must be implemented, if I see that he has his heart on it I'll leave him be.

I believe that I should be more of an advisor rather than a king.

 

How do you play on improving transparency.....

HOW do you plan on improving transparency of the lore team's processes?

Simple, encourage the lore writers to talk.

Let's not forget that hype can be as effective of a tool.

More of a building a yellow brick road towards the cake rather than putting the cake on the ground before them. (no offense Cake)

And if the lore writer doesn't want to share? Again, I'll ask why it's so important to keep secret and for him to explain it to me. But even if I disagree with his reasoning I won't share it with other people, I'd like to simply see their position and explanation on it rather than to intrude into their work.

 

What is your stance on accessbillity vs depth.....

What is your stance on accessibility vs depth? Forum news stations serve as IC reboots played straight (the first ever arc was a Unathi arc effectively rebooting Ouerea's ownership) or filler that is meant to make the galaxy feel like it is breathing outside the station. Parts of it impact the Aurora, but the Aurora is not the center of the universe. By having the news that doesn't directly impact the station but which shows our Orion Spur sector going through various situations, people can feel like they are coming to the Aurora from some situation going on. The most recent big thing, the Martian independence movement, did not directly impact the station but many players loved it because it impacted their Martian characters. There was a rout from ATLAS characters and there was a lot of development for these characters.

Accessibility vs Depth, hmmm.

I would like to put wiki a bit more "On the nose" and hide the newscaster stuff a bit to the sidelanes, so people that just want the essentials get those quickly but the people who REALLY want to dig in have the option to.

Currently our situation isn't as bad as some might suggests, the depth itself actually acts as a "Shitter repelant" as powergamers who only want a species for mechanics most likely won't bother to read the lore and get swiftly denied.

It is really a case-by-case thing, I think species are currently in the best situation but Companies/Planets could use more highlights and posts of their own.

Now for the newscasters.

I'd disagree on "many players enjoyed it" and say more of a "vocal minority enjoyed it", the discord is REALLY not the place to talk about these sort of things as we have about 200 people and only about 20 of them actively talk, some of them which don't even play the game.

I think you give too much value to this, the few people that did jump on the Freedom train jumped on it because it was violent, how many people did you get talking about a reveal of some engine? One two? The Vaurca slums? Sure people like to talk about it in lore-chat but has anyone actually aknowleged that really? (I do admit this is just an opinion since I'm not on 24/7/365 but your assumption that a lot of people enjoyed it was also just an opinion.)

There is one useful thing about these things, and that's backstories I've seen a few people put it into their backstory, I liked that.

 

I think you're conflating the idea of Aurora....

 

I think you are conflating the idea of Aurora being the end-all be-all for characters. The conversation that was the catalyst for you making this thread was when you said that all the elections we had in the past should have been done on the station, rather than as abstracted polls on the forum. I disagreed with this and still do. You are a radical ICer in terms that you have always argued the vein that the only real things that matter are what exists on our z-levels.

Let me deconstruct that.

 

THIS is what sparked the argument and this whole thing.

You said that vote was IC even though it was CLEARLY an OOC thing, my character didn't vote because I had 5 of them I did because I only had ONE vote. (I'll refrain from posting pictures to not extend this even more.)

Next proceeds this "The Aurora is not going to swing the election,"

So you pretty much admit that the vote was an OOC thing and not an IC thing? Because if my character voted in that it would not swing elections since my character IS from aurora.

And what is wrong with the ballot? What exactly? Characters influencing it? Antags using antag stuff to change the votes?

Custom items use a simple thing, they check your name, if the name is that set on them they equip on you, this carries over rounds.

The ballot could have been just as simple, box infront of command with 4 buttons, you scan your ID, press a button, your name saves and done.

Perhaps someone could have stood there and threatened others, someone could have attempted to hack it, someone could have done SOMETHING.

And in regards to that last part, I'll say something a man I know often says.

"It's a game."

 

Wiki development is also very active.....

Wiki development is also very active, and more active than it has been in a long time. The only caveat is that wiki maintainers do not directly write lore to be put on the wiki without asking about it real quick first. But @AllyBearsley has pretty much full autonomy and a blank check to do whatever the wiki needs. It's also incredibly easy to become a wiki maintainer. @SeniorScore was angry about the wiki mistakes and I told him to apply and he got the job in like 5 minutes. The lore development team is already incredibly accessible. I can only say that one area of improvement is scream like a banshee to startle the players and make them aware of the tools I am trying to hand them. Namely: more advertisement.

Yes, I said that I'm glad that they're very active, I even aknowledge that. But I want the lore to slow down and catch up, there are multiple species which are still dusty and rusty and this is an issue as one of them is the second most applied for species, IPCs in general are being left behind as SSTA can still be found there and that's as old as 2015 which I'm pretty sure is still Botanist lore.

I want to throw them a bone, just because they're catching up right now when they're new and fresh doesn't mean they'll be as enthusiastic a month later.

 

[Coalf]

I would like to point out that there's no Protocol for this.

The Loreteam will all have to call a no-confidence vote against Jackboot and Jackboot ofcourse will get a say in this. Jackboot has no direct superior per say as Garn or Skull do not have any authority over the Loreteam. Coalf will have to wait until he gets kicked out of the Loreteam or he resigns himself. Just my two cents in it, you don't hire a person who does not code to be leading a team of coders, or a person who has no moderation experience directly promoted to Headmin.

So hey, maybe you could join the loreteam as something else

Edit: It's probably just to prove a point anyway. Jackboot needs to do more and what I've heard there's been over 500 messages in the lore chat on how to improve the lore. So hey, it's already gained traction.

 

Please, I said don't turn this into a smear campaign, this is a legitimate application it's not aimed to destroy jackboots reputation or question the going on behind the wall.

At worst this is meant to provoke thought and discussion at best I'll be up there with the stars.

Thank you.

[Loow]

Hey there. Loow here.

I appreciate some of the things which are being said here, but I don't quite appreciate the way it's being said.

I want Coalf, and anyone reading this, to know that I understand quite a few of the frustrations which are being felt by players. Frustrations which Coalf talks about in this conversation. For vocalizing these and reminding me that things aren't ever "fixed", I'd like to give thanks.

I appreciate the work Coalf has done, and I've found him to give useful feedback on several occasions.

In this thread, he states that he'd like to see events on the station. Or rather, more little events which offer insight into what's going on in lore rather than occasional "bulks" (as he puts it) of many events where the lore suddenly takes a front seat. While I personally enjoy events and appreciate their use, I can understand having a "bad taste in my mouth" after events like the previous antag contest. That contest was interesting, but largely automated and imbalanced in favor of the anti-organic side. I'm choosing to interpret Coalf's hope to mean that he'd like more of the foreshadowing and intrigue, which can sometimes be seen in the lore, to instead be more prevalent in bimonthly or monthly events.

To me, that sounds like it could be doable, if not somewhat difficult to pull off regularly.

Frankly, I liked the last week of the antag contest. Every day featured events which impacted the way the whole situation played out. I personally found that to be more interesting than the automated system which had been going on previously. I think we should pat the dev team on the back for really coming through for us and allowing us to try things like the automated system, sol-based job positions, and other things which really made that last week work. I'd also like to thank the admins, mods, and players who made those events possible and influenced them. I digress.

There's a lot to talk about in this thread, and I'd love if we could discuss it in a civil manner. Thank you for bringing this up, Coalf.

Now I have to say that while I am glad this conversation started, I do not endorse this as an application. To put it simply, I've grown fond of our current loremaster. A long while ago, I harassed him in ways which could be considered downright insulting for how he handled certain themes. After some time, he asked me to send my thoughts to him via a PM. I did so in a way which was far more civil than I had previously done. Turns out he thrives off of feedback, and he continues to do so. He may not appreciate hostilities like the ones I originally gave him, but he's proven to be more than a little receptive to feedback.

Jackboot also, from where I stand, works harder and more consistently than any loredev I've ever known. He has consistently been putting out content for those who enjoy lore. He's shown that he's capable of extending his creativity to all species in the lore, often for extended periods of time. He also pushes for events and comes up with ways to "shake things up" often enough that I sometimes find it annoying. Frankly, he's encouraging to those of us who put out lore. Or at the very least, he's encouraged me.

Jackboot is a credit to the Lore Team. I understand that the lore, how players and characters interact with it, and its availability will continue to be issues going forward regardless of who's in charge. While I don't support your application for "head lore manager", Coalf, I want you to know that I appreciate what you're trying to say. There is a lot more work which needs to be done and will always need to be done.

I hope this conversation can continue in a constructive manner, but I'd like to make sure it's known that I believe our current team is more than capable of cooperating and growing.

Thank you for your time.

[Coalf]

Hey there. Loow here......

Hey there. Loow here.

I appreciate some of the things which are being said here, but I don't quite appreciate the way it's being said.

I want Coalf, and anyone reading this, to know that I understand quite a few of the frustrations which are being felt by players. Frustrations which Coalf talks about in this conversation. For vocalizing these and reminding me that things aren't ever "fixed", I'd like to give thanks.

I appreciate the work Coalf has done, and I've found him to give useful feedback on several occasions.

In this thread, he states that he'd like to see events on the station. Or rather, more little events which offer insight into what's going on in lore rather than occasional "bulks" (as he puts it) of many events where the lore suddenly takes a front seat. While I personally enjoy events and appreciate their use, I can understand having a "bad taste in my mouth" after events like the previous antag contest. That contest was interesting, but largely automated and imbalanced in favor of the anti-organic side. I'm choosing to interpret Coalf's hope to mean that he'd like more of the foreshadowing and intrigue, which can sometimes be seen in the lore, to instead be more prevalent in bimonthly or monthly events.

To me, that sounds like it could be doable, if not somewhat difficult to pull off regularly.

Frankly, I liked the last week of the antag contest. Every day featured events which impacted the way the whole situation played out. I personally found that to be more interesting than the automated system which had been going on previously. I think we should pat the dev team on the back for really coming through for us and allowing us to try things like the automated system, sol-based job positions, and other things which really made that last week work. I'd also like to thank the admins, mods, and players who made those events possible and influenced them. I digress.

There's a lot to talk about in this thread, and I'd love if we could discuss it in a civil manner. Thank you for bringing this up, Coalf.

And I thank you for reading this and listening to what I had to say as it's been quite a long thing now.

 

Now I have to say that while....

Now I have to say that while I am glad this conversation started, I do not endorse this as an application. To put it simply, I've grown fond of our current loremaster. A long while ago, I harassed him in ways which could be considered downright insulting for how he handled certain themes. After some time, he asked me to send my thoughts to him via a PM. I did so in a way which was far more civil than I had previously done. Turns out he thrives off of feedback, and he continues to do so. He may not appreciate hostilities like the ones I originally gave him, but he's proven to be more than a little receptive to feedback.

Jackboot also, from where I stand, works harder and more consistently than any loredev I've ever known. He has consistently been putting out content for those who enjoy lore. He's shown that he's capable of extending his creativity to all species in the lore, often for extended periods of time. He also pushes for events and comes up with ways to "shake things up" often enough that I sometimes find it annoying. Frankly, he's encouraging to those of us who put out lore. Or at the very least, he's encouraged me.

Jackboot is a credit to the Lore Team. I understand that the lore, how players and characters interact with it, and its availability will continue to be issues going forward regardless of who's in charge. While I don't support your application for "head lore manager", Coalf, I want you to know that I appreciate what you're trying to say. There is a lot more work which needs to be done and will always need to be done.

I hope this conversation can continue in a constructive manner, but I'd like to make sure it's known that I believe our current team is more than capable of cooperating and growing.

Thank you for your time.

And since you're being honest with me, I'll be honest with you.

I personally dislike Jackboots but this has nothing to do with Jackboots behaviour as a member of a lore team, but as a manager.

I absolutely understand that he's done more pull than probably anyone here, he's constantly harassed by people about lore, asked about every little tiny thing and gets the "What do X penises look like?" every other day of the week.

From what I know he made his species into what it is now and while I personaly am not a fan I appreciate the work put into them and I see a lot of people enjoy it too.

I don't want to kick Jackboots out of the staff team at all and by all means I hope he lives long and prospers.

But you're being honest with me and I dislike not pointing fingers, because this issue needs a LOT of fingerpointing.

And since I appreciate your honesty, I'll be honest with you and everyone else in this thread too and most likely make a lot of enemies.

Let's start from the top.

(The following are my own personal opinions as an outside observer of the lore team, I admit I don't know what's happening on the inside and what the people truly intended, and again, IT'S MY OPINION)

Lore Writers don't play the game: Yes I find this an issue, while I undertand many people don't have the time in a day to dedicate two hours to SS13 this has become quite the issue as I think it causes a disconnect between the players of a species and their dev, furthermore there is 0 assurance in quality outside of hoping that other whitelist people ahelp the person breaking lore or that we, moderator staff, notice it.

(to be fair CCIA, Coders, Spriters suffer from this too, hell even some players in discord suffer from it.)

Reluctancy to release staff: This is an understandable problem, over the course of time people become friends it's bound to happen when you're stuck in a single chat room with 15 people, but as a manger it's just as important to realize when someone should or should not go.

I'd hate to be dishonest with you so yes, I'm pointing at you Loow and Cake aswell recently.

Reluctancy to listen: Now this isn't regarding lore, but regarding staff. And Mainly Tabby or TammyTabbit, RabbitTabbit? He was advised MULTIPLE times that he really should not put them in the seat, yet there they were and we know how that ended up.

This isn't slander, this isn't smearing I'm explaining that I DO NOT WANT TO REMOVE JACKBOOT FROM LORE what I want is someone else to be a manager as I think he's not fit for it.

Doesn't have to be me, just let someone else try.

[Tomiix]

Do you consider the Aurora universe more science fiction, or science fantasy?

As a head lore dev, would you push the story more towards fiction or more towards fantasy?

We focus a lot on things being realistic when it comes to things like the progression of a species, or abilities of a character. Where do you think we should draw the line for realism? Where should our suspension of disbelief be?

You know my personal thoughts on Jackboot being both a head dev and a species dev, what are your thoughts on someone having both responsibilities? If you were to take this position, would you continue to be a moderator?

In your opinion, what are the responsibilities of a head lore dev? Is the current head dev doing too much or too little? What changes would you make to the position, and lore team organization?

When are we going to have Unathi/Tajaran bone marrow hybrid children?

[Coalf]

Do you consider the Aurora universe more science fiction, or science fantasy?

That depends on what you're looking.

It's clear our synthetic intelligences are explained as a sci-fi would explain them, with echelons(ichilons? can't remember) and circuits.

But then juxtaposed is a literal wizard who's explained as "Yeah it's there."

Politics have the finnese and tacticality of near real-life politics.

But we also have walking sentient mushrooms.

Three battling factions on a planet locked in gritty combat.

But walking cat people.

It's an absolutely mixed bag.

As a head lore dev, would you push the story more towards fiction or more towards fantasy?

In the end? Future Fantasy (got this from extra credits) with Science-fiction elements.

If I were to compare this to something it would be Metal Gear Solid, a series that isn't afraid to go TOTALLY fucking insane yet is always somewhat loosely based on realism but sometimes with fantastical elements.

 

We focus a lot on things being realistic when it comes to things like the progression of a species, or abilities of a character. Where do you think we should draw the line for realism? Where should our suspension of disbelief be?

I'd like to keep that in a tight hold, one thing I have learned that if you leave an exploit in a system, someone, somewhere will abuse it. So I want the lore team to keep the same chokehold they have held up to now.

Same regarding abilities, nobody likes a mary sue.

Suspension of disbelief is a bit iffy, some people are willing to handwave a crystal that's made out of a compressed star yet won't accept people calling a brain surgery that makes you stupid, lobotomy.

We have different jobs, we come from different places, some things that seem to us like completely acceptible might sound bonkers to another bigger profesional in that field.

It's a matter of perspective but as it stands I think people should certainly be more lax regarding antagonist gimmicks as they're there to spice up rounds.

 

You know my personal thoughts on Jackboot being both a head dev and a species dev, what are your thoughts on someone having both responsibilities? If you were to take this position, would you continue to be a moderator?

I said I don't want to gripe on Jackboots lore, but I guess I won't avoid it.

Sadly yes, Unathi Favoritism is one of things why I've come to make this application and yes, I do believe someone who is directly responsible for a species shouldn't be in charge of the entire team at once as one is inclined to either pay too much attention to their species or to try and compensate for that and not pay enough attention.

Continue my work as a moderator? Yes, I see no issue in that as I would have access to both modchat and lorechat, thus I would be capable to see if mod team has issues with certain players and address it and vice versa. Plus it would break off some of the secrecy and behind the scenes.

 

In your opinion, what are the responsibilities of a head lore dev? Is the current head dev doing too much or too little? What changes would you make to the position, and lore team organization?

I touched on that previously, it's important to stay involved but remain a neutral party. I can't say with certainty if he's doing too much or too little as I don't see into lorechat. But this application came into reality because from outside perspective it seemed like there was enough done, just wrongly.

I'd say the head lore manager shouldn't actually involve himself in lore as much, as I said before he should be the stamp, not the letter.

The final "Yes I agree" instead of the "No we're doing this instead"

But responsibilites feature: Making sure Lore Writers are active, Overseeing how the acceptance of whitelists is going, Removing/Accepting staff and listening to issues of overall narrative from players and writers.

 

When are we going to have Unathi/Tajaran bone marrow hybrid children?

Soon™

[Scheveningen]

This application seems a little unwarranted unless [mention]Senpai Jackboot[/mention] apparently mentioned out of turn that he was quitting.

This is far below the standard I'd expect for an up and coming usurper to the lore master position. I say that entirely sardonically as I don't see it happening until Jackboot wants to quit.