Carver

The slow from the pain is more or less a guaranteed down against anyone who lacks a flash on-hand. That is to say; everyone but Command, Security and Robotics. And yet a bomb is a perfectly valid antagonistic tool when used well. If Jimmy Dipshit walks through the firelock into the room filled with sleeping gas, that's not my problem. Malf has ways. Shock someone and drag them off, gas them (refer to my above response), sedate them and remove their legs. I never saw the Security module used for kidnapping as much as gunning people down in the hallways with lasers, seeing as the Engineering-oriented modules are better for it (blocking entrances off to prevent hostiles breaching into the hostage room). Above all, I'm very hesitant to buff any antagonist that has a button which instantly kills people (APC boom boom) as it overall may give them far too much power. As for Combat having no lethal tools, that is incorrect. Shooting someone into paincrit is a valid method of subduing as burns can be easily treated, wholly non-lethal if your stationbounds know exactly what they're doing. The threat of lethal force is also often enough to kidnap most crew. Though, now that we're going off of that information: Engineering modules are capable of zoning and trapping via their construction abilities and being more effective overall at locking down areas. Medical modules, if not using syringes, can saw off your limbs and keep you alive. Or in the case of Rescue, knock you flat with a fire extinguisher. The service module amusingly has the hardest time disabling via force as fire is incredibly ineffective, whilst knives and the like are fairly non-threatening (though a hatchet to the foot will still do OKAY-ish), and should be combined with applying a rag after downing them. I guess you could smack them upside the head with a rolling pin. Research module is effectively a more offensive medical module that lacks being able to heal as effectively, in exchange for being able to apply chemicals far more effectively. Works great in coordination with a medical unit. It can also heal the other units. Droideka, as mentioned, can simply laser someone into a heavy slowdown or paincrit; alternatively threatening ranged lethal force. The oft-forgotten Syndicate module, which I wouldn't mind being available to traitor stationbounds and not malfs, has a myriad of tools to subdue people in varying ways. The SMG is not the one I'd recommend for it. In short; un-nerf flashes and you don't even need to bother with the more advanced methods, as every module has a flash.

This item alone is one of the main reasons I argue against baton nerfs.

And yet you're dragged off helplessly either way.

To which I say, the other modules don't need these buffs. Malf in particular does not need these buffs. Ah, because stuncuff is so very different. Traitor borgs have more tools than you give them credit for, as do malf. Gases/atmospherics, door controls, airlocks, power. They have, essentially, built-in all-access and the ability to remotely control the station's systems to a greater extent than any traitor.

To which I say, the other modules don't need these buffs. Malf in particular does not need these buffs. Ah, because stuncuff is so very different. Traitor borgs have more tools than you give them credit for, as do malf. Gases/atmospherics, door controls, airlocks, power. They have, essentially, built-in all-access and the ability to remotely control the station's systems to a greater extent than any traitor.

Service borg can soak a rag in chloral, Mining borg already has electrified arms, it's solely the clerical module that has 0 method and frankly if there's a clerical module (these things are rarer than clowns) you can be doing cheekier things with paperwork. Alternatively, clerical modules could simply change module.

The current iteration addresses feedback from the initial testmerge, the concept overall has not changed very much.

And I disagreed with giving them to other modules. Especially in regard to other modules often already having methods to disable people that require more creative application (syringes/rags/lube), or simply being modules not designed for overt activities (clerical.. really, just the clerical that possesses a chameleon stamp).

Industrial does not imply being built to be spaceworthy. A lighter industrial model is likely designed for planetside/atmospheric work, whereas the bulkier and slower G-models are such a way because they were designed to work in the conditions of a vacuum. Or in more IC-appropriate terms: G-models focus on internal/enclosed cooling, Xion is an open-cooling model. The nature of a voidsuit is built-in to the G-model.

It's unfortunate that a majority of times I've seen malfs use their borgs to apprehend people, it was just to drag them into laser turrets. For that alone I say; "Keep the zappies to Construction/Engineering and let them be more creative with the other tools they have."

My only concern so far has been that you often get people who start on the more relaxed servers (i.e. Aurora/Polaris/degenerate ERP servers that I won't name), don't focus on improving their mechanic knowledge, then proceed to play various roles and complain about mechanics they never bothered to learn or improve in. In addition -- whilst I do love people who try to stay alive -- there are often people who feel that they should never lose (which is a different thing from dying, seeing as most situations outside of death are wholly escapable) leading to an odd sense of entitlement especially common amongst newer (or immature) unskilled players. i.e: Timmy tries antag the first time, gets fucked up because he never practiced his clicking and wanted to go shooty shooty, then demands whatever he lost to is nerfed. Similarly; Johnny plays sec the first time, goes all gung-ho whilst underestimating whatever the threat of the day is, complains in d-say that the nuke ops shot him for acting like a complete jackass.

It reminds me of exploits of the past, at some point I'm going to add it as an issue when I can get around to testing shit.

Positioning as a whole does tell you a lot about the intent.

Funnily, the 'on edge' factor is why I loved learning there. You learn the body language of someone who's about to kill you in SS13, and you get some good mechanical practice trying to out-click them.

The CMO telling you to stay in the department is no different than the HoS telling you to stay in the lobby and watch cameras, with possible note that the CMO needs a stronger reason to demand it (i.e. a past incident during the round) whereas an HoS does not. The other difference being that John Doe can choose from a baseline whether he prefers to stay in his assigned department or perform more typical duties. He is not expected to patrol, nor is he required to stay within his department, when I said: The implication is that unlike the Warden, he's not going to get screamed at every 5 minutes for daring to walk out. As it's within his prerogative to choose to patrol or remain. Read my previous two sentences. My point is to counter your initial argument (following quote), the one that wasn't particularly mechanical but you've chosen to abandon in your pointless crusade against this project.

If you require further input; this is more accurate to what an HoS would be paid: https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Security_Consultant_(Physical_%2F_Personnel_%2F_Grounds)/Salary Representing an average salary of $62k, rounded up from $61,843 (the average for at least 5 years of experience, the minimum requirement for HoS), with an upper range around around $90k for those with 10+ years of experience. Why did I choose Security Consultant as the real life-equivalent title? For the following: https://neuvoo.ca/neuvooPedia/en/security-consultant/ This second website also provides a salary average of $73k, but also takes into account the more cybersecurity-specialized Security Consultant salaries. In short, I spent too much time researching this in the past for various character-related background writing and figured the information would be relevant here.

Let 'em wear voidsuits and softsuits, that's not an issue. Hardsuits are a hard disagree though.

To counter the argument of 'x model would apply too much force', if a unit were incapable of controlling it's application of force then it wouldn't be working on the station and is probably damaged to begin with. IPCs had CPR in the past and it didn't really do any harm, no harm in re-adding it in a re-fluffed form.

May as well have a script that says 'DON'T DO BAD THINGS' when you enable harm intent, if it's that fussy/buggy.

Make it a nice 45 minutes and I'll support this.

IPCs don't need more buffs. Expect to lose the speed bonus if you become spaceworthy.

You quoted my citations. Bravo. Now you backpedal on your argument, going from 'it cripples security' to 'it's a buff that doesn't benefit RP' via a No True Scotsman argument. I'll humour you with an example: John Doe is working as the Medical Officer. John Doe has multiple options for the day: He can stay in Medical, patrolling or chatting with fellow employees. Or, he can opt to go patrol the halls outside and perhaps have a non-alcoholic drink at the bar. John Doe realizes nothing is happening his department today and wants to take a walk, so he leaves Medical as he's not bound by an invisible Warden's chain. John Doe has the freedom to do whatever he feels like, only obligated to return to his department when they require him. If he feels like staying, he can get to know the personnel there without being required to patrol the halls if he doesn't wish to. This is because John Doe has more freedom than a General Officer does due to his assignment.

Looks fantastic so far.

Having more non-chemical means and generally more means as a whole of stabilizing patients is mainly what I desire. Cryo pods filled a niche for this in not needing a chemist, stasis bags tried to fill this niche but ended up being changed into becoming utterly useless (more often killing than actually stabilizing). I'd even take a system based off our other type of cryo that'd freeze the patient and keep them stable without treating their injuries or otherwise causing any change in metabolism/damages - a true stasis, none of that genetic damage bullshit the bags have.

It isn't so much the current system discouraging it, as much as the game itself discouraging it. If Antag/Group X produce 5 injured critically injured personnel, and medical has 3 individuals currently working it, then there wouldn't be much room to offer RP and keep those 5 alive regardless of any changes made, as the priority should always be preserving life. The best one could do is reduce the potency of medical's tools but increase the tools that stabilize critical injuries, something that made cryo popular in the very first place. Make healing slower by all means, but don't make it harder to keep people alive. I'd sooner push for more stabilizing options all-around (that aren't complete and utter shit like stasis bags).