Nantei

As someone with detective round counts well into the triple digits, I can confirm that's false on my end. I've worked out official plea bargains with traitors before. I generally dislike leaving anyone completely alone in the brig, and it's also partially the Warden's job since they often sit there the whole time anyways. Gonna also echo Arrow here. This seems very aimless. I would suggest formatting something a bit more concrete.

The trauma system was both extremely inaccurate, painted mental disorders in a bad way, and about as fun as cutting off your leg with a plastic knife. Seeing it go is a boon. Cloning is rarely done as of now anyways due to said trauma system, so I'm fine with its removal once brainmed is in. Cloning should however absolutely be a thing off-station. Removing it from the lore is just going to lead to a bunch of headaches, but I suppose we'l cross that bridge when we get to it. I hope if the lore team considers removing it, they make a feedback thread considering how heavily this affects so many characters.

Right, so as I predicted, we're retreading the head of staff policy suggestion. And I would encourage dismissal here on the grounds of that similarity. The arguments are essentially identical, and it was already decided that, while it is more realistic for 99% of characters to only have one role they play ever, it's still better to suspend our disbelief and let people play multiple roles so long as it's reasonable. If you think someone is breaking the believable character rules, you should ahelp and/or make a complaint. A policy change is unnecessary, the believable characters rule already covers this.

So we should change the policy because of new players who seem to already be disregarding the believable characters rule? This is killing a mouse with a nuke. Make a player complaint (Repeated bad behavior over multiple rounds is better for PC's). I don't want to get hit in the crossfire because of a couple bad eggs, and that's definitely what will happen here.

I would suggest Vox way before the Syndicate if we're talking painfully neglected factions that need some representation. Vox are so irrelevant I sometimes forget they exist. Wizard too but every time I've brought it up it's gotten nowhere.

Because you don't. Sec officer has extremely low qualifications, as I said. You wouldn't be allowed to—or even likely consider—come in as more than one job title to start with. This logic can apply for anyone that plays any job within the same department, and we had this conversation regarding Heads of Staff. I don't see this as any different, and if we're willing to suspend disbelief there, we shouldn't be treating Security any different. This is just an electric boogaloo of this idea: And I don't find it any more compelling here than it was there.

Security Officer has extremely low requirements. There's almost no reason someone couldn't qualify. Warden also can go for an applicable forensics degree, to investigatives to Warden also makes sense. Job hopping rules are for people making absurd hops/powergaming, and that's how it should stay.

Then you should remove the sentence I pointed out. All it does is muddy the waters by adding confusion, since it's a needless clarification. What is a security uniform is already obvious, clarifying just draws questions as to why it was clarified. It should be concisely written, and this is the opposite of concise. Sentences like that are usually to clarify exceptions, and if they aren't to clarify exceptions they should be strictly listed as a definition. If we insist on keeping it, then it should change to this:

Nah. Just cameras in general. As far as I know, the ninja's camo thing only masks you from cameras. So neither security on cameras or the AI can see you. Which also means that it isn't useful exclusively for AI.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Adding it to the agent card would be fine IMO, but last time I suggested that people seemed to think it was too big a buff to the agent card. Basically you activate the item and it gives you the... I believe it is called electronic warfare or digital camo, that the ninja has. Invisibility only to cameras.

If only. No. It disables tracking, which is fairly useless if an AI is actively looking for you.

So AI is an issue for traitors whenever it is around, no? So why don't we give Traitors some tools to help them combat them on the cheap. Essentially we take the functionality of the NInja's similar module and apply it to a toggleable item, then charge 3 or 4 TC for it. As a nice bonus, this will hide you from all cameras, so it will not become completely defunct if there is no AI. And the functionality already exists, so this should be relatively easy to implement.

All this would accomplish is getting a large amount of people to cryo at the start of the round. No thank you. Trying to force people to play is a bad idea.

I'm hardly a 'xenoarch main'. I don't think almost anyone is. But scouts would be good for escorts. Xenoarchs run into a fair amount of carp... or on the rare occasion bears. Xenoarch is pretty delicate so I don't think they would be able to do any excavating, but if we had more treasure/other RNG goodies it would be better. If we had procedurally generated ruins to explore that would help a lot, but that would be a lot of work. I'm still kicking around the idea of the lower sectors being more dangerous IE; Having more and deadlier simplier mobs, in exchange for way higher ore density.

These are fairly high hoops to jump through to get access. A changling has to murder someone, a vampire has to spend a lot of blood points on a power they don't get until about midway through their tree, and of which will be difficult to use in maintenance without meson scanners—which are conveniently found in maintenance a lot—and is prone to getting them trapped due to not having actual access; and cultists have to basically tunnel an engineer. Revs meanwhile are basically just screwed, converting for them is not reliable in the slightest. I'd also note the antags that are getting beefed up from this are the stronger ones we have, where poor Ling did not need to be kicked while they are down. More realistically what will happen is people who roll antag will start hacking now as part of their extended skillset as it becomes necessary to move around sneakily. On top of this, seeing them go in and out of maintenance is a huge dog whistle for BAD GUY. Expect the bad sec players to get even worse. The first should have been added alongside with this PR, as was suggested several times. This helps, but I still pity our poor low pop brothers who will continue to suffer. The second should be remotely available as a new program. Only two heads have access to the command console without buying a laptop, and many do not do this. Alongside this, changing ID's is quite painful, and making it so ID's can be remotely modified is useful for both antagonists and the crew. Alternatively a button to just grant your department maint access would help, I doubt it needs to be selectively given out very often. Being able to grant maintenance access to your department for Security just makes Security's very slow response time even slower. The armory does a good job of slowing them down already. The third is prone to abuse, but probably the least offensive of the compromises, on top of probably being the easiest to code for a reliable workaround. I still would prefer we simply revert this. If the intent is to prevent validhunting, it easily makes it worse since anyone who shouldn't have access to maint, inside maint, will get called out dramatically worse where it was prior not a very big deal. If we want to give antags a get out of jail free card for some odd reason, we could have added items to traitors that let them bolt down a door on the cheap so they can run away, limited use emergency teleporters, etc. I don't see this as an overall positive change, and think it is more frustrating than fun. TL;DR: There's more fun ways to do this that aren't nearly as frustrating. Please stop strawmanning, this is the opposite of helpful and fosters a hostile environment.

I think that is sort of the point. I don't think it's a big ask to settle on how tall your character is. No?

Yes. Please. I would really love that.

I don't see that as an inherently bad thing. Besides, you could still come, nothing stops you. Security just ceases to be mandatory instead.

It is, but we shouldn't be acting on the assumption that it will be included when it's been stated to not.

That seems a bit better, yeah. So long as an e-mag doesn't trigger the announcement. If it's announced then it's probably almost never going to be stolen because... yeah, stealth just went out the window. Really easy to figure out who was there.

The issue is that's not part of the current PR and Arrow has stated it won't be. So unless they change their mind, that's not on the table. Introducing a PR that has a massive issue that isn't addressed in said PR is no pickle pee. No pump-a-rum.

I think a glass cage with an alarm is a bit overkill, a safe is probably a better pick. Out of sight, out of mind.

I feel like I need to get this on a button. Enabling. Maint. Access. Is. Not. Common. This is not a reasonable workaround, and unless that button is changed, it never will be. When you are enabling maint access you are probably going to be swiping red, or ERT. It requires two command members, of whom are frequently not around on lowpop, and that they both stop whatever they are doing to go and give officers access. When antags are announced in the tunnels the common reaction is not to swarm, it's to get armed up. Because swarming people with guns while you have no guns is really silly. The armory design is already pretty much perfect for ensuring Security is very slow to react to serious threats. There's more reasons this is a bad workaround that I have outlined earlier in the thread. Also as a side note that makes this feel a bit tone deaf: Stun batons don't do enough damage to break open airlocks. I normally wouldn't point it out because it's a bit petty, but I think it showcases that the expectations aren't grounded. (Also breaking doors with maglights takes a really long time. This will never be a valid way to chase people, ever.)