Peppermint

I don't know how to say this politely, so I will go for the blunt approach. There is no OOC bias here. I have no issue with you, because I was completely and utterly indifferent to your existence before you decided to label me as some kind of predator getting off to my IC decisions. You are not the protagonist everyone is trying to shoot down for your heroic stand against tyranny. The way you've tried to paint me is straight up weird. There was no targeting. You have been entirely unable to offer any proof of this targeting, or that I somehow decided that by doing the same thing anyone suspending anyone does I was out to personally get at you. It is completely illogical. Instead just doubling down that you've been unfairly treated because other people are finding your accusations real off given the circumstances - complaints have both parties looked upon, and there are consequences for your actions both IC and OOC. Yes, if you'd just told me the belt was yours, I wouldn't have wanted it. You didn't. You had many many chances to do so, as the logs show. Instead you whined and complained how unfair it was. You were given entirely reasonable IC orders and refused them on the grounds of OOC distaste that doesn't exist. The other orders you followed was like trying to get blood from a stone. Yes, you did eventually give me the things I asked for, after multiple prodding. At no point did you give me any indication of what the issue was outside of sulking about the other officers finding it frustrating you didn't turn up. This talk of how unfair the scrutiny is is because there's wildly different leaps of logic between: a) Security belts and bags are going to be where people put things like pepperspray, maglights, flashes - you know, all the things detectives get and b) This person is sexually harassing me for their power fantasy because they hate me. I am not out to personally get you and I doubt anyone else is either. It's an incredibly weird stance to take with zero proof other than 'Because I say so'. Given you've posted the ticket logs, I'm gonna share the full one here too as it's easier tor read in this format. I think part of it is cut off, but it's to show a point. I didn't want to previously as it's unfair given I have access to them, and would therefor have had to guess at the context were I another player - which you could also accuse of doing these kinds of things, and there would struggle to defend themselves in context. This is just so incredibly odd, hurtful, and damaging. The complaint has been made and read by many others, you made IC accusations, so I would therefor like to continue this complaint as it saves me from making a separate one. Turning a normal interaction for a suspension and trying to twist it around to some kind of personal vendetta of an annoyed player out to humiliate you for a strip tease is just abhorrent and shows so little understanding about the things I am being accused of. I am not okay with it suddenly being closed and backed out of because you've had enough after your choice to continue this.

This is so disgusting. The fact you've made these allegations and spun it like this is horrible, and you should be ashamed. - I told you multiple times to come to the bombing site. I didn't get any response. Not 'I'm busy' or that you were handling the monkey issue, just absolute silence. - I told you that if you didn't come, I would have to come and find you instead. - You then had a temper tantrum, hid in your office, and refused to do anything. This is why you were suspended. I didn't have time with everything else going on and you were acting like a child. - I told you to put your ID on my desk as you were being charged, Again, radio silence until I came up to your office. There I told you to put all your things away, as is normal for being suspended. - This was your ID, weapon, and your bag/belt so I could remove any other sec gear you had. - This took forever. You were warned a whole bunch and instead just continued to throw your stuff on the floor and have your temper tantrum. - You then insinuated it was some kind of strip tease(????) at which point I lost my patience and battoned you to grab your stuff and get on with the rest of the round. I have no idea what's wrong, but trying to insinuate this was some weird power move and demanding 'order after order' and how you're so uncomfortable I....asked for your gear back multiple times after you refused to play your role 'cause some officers upset you after you didn't listen is really ick. Your conduct here and during the ticket was horrific, and I'm pretty darn shocked that any of this happened at all. I would really like whomever takes the complaint to look at your conduct, given the insinuations here with zero proof are rather serious. To be blunt: There is not some weird conspiracy. You are not that interesting to the point where an openly gay lady dating another member of the community here would decide to go on some bizarre IC power grab to fuel her OOC wants for....some dude she's never spoken to before? There is no big effort to fuck you up for reasons that really do not make sense. Puke. Other things: - Nobody 'followed you around'. You were given instructions and refused them out of spite. You were then told to hand your ID in. When both of these things didn't happen, I came up to get your ID. - There were no threats of beatings. You were told to hand your shit in. Given you were acting so oddly and just stood there mute whilst I told you to put your shit away, I indeed had my weapons out as you can see above. Mostly as I fully expected to be griefed by some LRP new player. - I told you the items to put away as are standard - including flash protection glasses and your headset. You had multiple chances to do so before I a) Got frustrated and b) Was made to feel weirded out by your strip tease comment, at which point I had ample reason to hurry things along. - What 'uncomfortable topic' were you forced to RP here? Having your stuff taken away after you acted out and sulked that the officers were frustrated at you or something? - I'd really love to see the logs surrounding you being in the floor and the poor, tragic cadets coming up to ask to be taught. Mostly because this straight up didn't happen and is a good example of the sheet amount of lies in this complaint. You were battoned. charged with failure to execute orders, fined, and let go - after medical checked you over and told me you were fine. At this point I took your cuffs off and left you to the rest of your round. You are not some poor martyr bullied by the system; you acted like a little kid angry that other people were frustrated at you and decided to ahelp that you were being abused in some real questionable ways. To add onto the last, I really want to know WHEN WERE YOU STRIPPED SEARCHED IN YOUR CELL IN FRONT OF SECURITY? I checked your pockets, grabbed the stuff you'd refused to give me, and sent you on your way. All entirely normal things to do when taking someone's gear. Every other line you've typed is a lie, as the logs will show. - Nobody 'followed you around'. - Nobody told you to strip. - Nobody humiliated you in front of the others, outside of your own actions reflecting on yourself. - You were not left on the floor after being beaten to have a gaggle of poor, defenceless cadets come by and beg for teaching (?????). - The 'best case scenario' was exactly what happened. You're upset the other admin didn't take you at your word with zero proof, whilst I provided screenshots of what actually happened? Bruh? - If you didn't understand why I wanted your things -to search for the rest of your gear - you should have just asked. Instead this is the result. Disgusting.

I meaaannn it's pretty larpy, but sounds quite cool? Also solves the issue of needing to announce it every few minutes to stop people being thrown around

I'd much prefer hostile third party ships like the Sol pirates being allowed to fuck with the horizon and other ships, albeit with rules around how/when, rather than retooling mercs/raiders to do so for the reasons I outlined and Gem stated as well. It's going to be fun the first few times, but after that will get boring really quick. Back to the old days of grab hostages, fly off, brag, and repeat. Just with a lot more holes.

How many engineering players do you know just love meteor or other venting gamemodes? Bridge crew will have fun. Operations may also have fun, though non-miner roles are still pretty rare. And every other department standing in vented out areas twiddling their thumbs will be miserable. I predict it'll be fun for the first few rounds, then swiftly become fristrating.

I think people are drastically overestimating how fun 'merc goes outside and shoots up the ship' would be for most players.

Cool. Locked and archiving then.

I’m not sure they expire per say. They’re also not really like notes in the fact that they’re recorded concisely. As I was saying about them being the gentler approach, you’ll be entirely fine unless you pick up an absolute ton or continue one specific issue - they are really not a big deal at all.

Okay! So I’ve looked through this and the logs and I agree that a strike was fine, though I also agree it could have been worded better. As in, instead toward your attitude after being told to stop, though it was originally the wrong channel thing that caused it so I therefor have no real problem either way. If anything, it’s the ‘softer’ approach than striking for a shitty attitude toward staff, which would be looked upon a lot less favourably should there be a follow up. I also really don’t think there was a conflict of interest here, especially as feedback was asked for in the staff discord by Cybs as to breadth of punishment anyway. It’s something of a myth that staff should never ever touch anything to do with themselves, and more so better practice not to if there’s another option - and this was such a minor issue that dragging someone else in would have been silly. I agree that you had plenty of reasoning and forewarning given someone else was dealt with prior, and then then the continuation after of following up as to being unhappy how it was handled - just go straight to the complaint next time if there’s a problem like this. To my mind Cybs took the ‘gentlest’ punishment option available to him when it came to the wording. However given complaints are a review of both parties, I’ll be sticking a note on the strike to better represent what happened and to add more context, given I believe the attitude issue was just as much of a problem. That’s all from me. Will be locking and archiving unless there are any new developments.

Hello, I'll be taking this. I should have a resolution tomorrow, given it looks like everyone has had their say.

You have a crazy amount of notes and warnings regarding power gaming and poor sec play. You applied to IPC and play a stereotypical sec g2 that only seems to exist to frag - and have now applied to unathi, the other obvious power gaming choice? Seems a bit sus to me.

I didn't play a single one, so feel free to brush over it. I did observe here and there when I had time, and chatted with others who also played. I agree there were problems and Ping summed them up nicely, and I agree work still needs to be done. However, most arcs recently have been so incredibly, painfully railroaded with admin spawn gear, no crew interaction, and zero real choice that this one seemed like a breath of fresh air. Actual consequences to play out, make choices around, and participate in? Gasp! A step in the right direction for sure, even if there's always going to be something left to learn. Whilst most people are already doing so, would also point out that running these things is a lot of work and nobody is owed an arc. Kind words are the way forwards.

Agree with the above Re: the warning. Here's a link to what was actually said and done Gonna go ahead and -1 as every interaction I've had with you, IC and attitude-wise OOC, has been extremely negative. From downplaying admin issues, to seemingly demanding everyone plays exactly to your expectations, to your characters making strange choices. I've not seen you play a non-consular command round yet, but the few I've seen as a consular often have you trying to throw yourself into any and every situation. Including and not limited to - and please correct me if I'm wrong and this was someone else - trying to broker peace talks in the middle of an armed protested you really had no business getting involved in? Wrong dude, sorry!

The VR games used for some old events would be cool. Albeit in small numbers so they don't have too many people using them at one time and taking away from the round.

Still feel it's a problem that exists more in people's heads than reality. The removal of flavour has not benefited the quality of roleplay offered so much as once, and I don't see how further stripping things away makes it better.

Sounds cool. But also sounds like an insane undertaking to balance the tokens and whatnot, plus I would assume would need a whole bunch of things remapped. Neat idea though

I don't think having clear opinions and expressing them is a bad thing at all. Nor would being friends with anyone on the lore team matter - people who are more invested in the community are more likely to take on more roles, and rub shoulders with others. Matt is continuously great and putting in a ton of hours for Aurora, and his writing ability is solid. Should def be given a chance to my mind. Guess I have to ask questions though. If you've been asked this before feel free to skip it, I've not checked the entire thread. A lot of human lore when it comes to events has been very restrictive in scope. It's mostly been sol, some more sol, and a little more sol, with nothing else really getting a chance to shine. A lot of smaller planets, especially those like Gadpathur don't really have much sticking power because of it. It's not a simple one step thing, but do you feel anything can be done to fix this and get greater diversity when it comes to impacting the overall narrative, or is it ok as is?

Admittedly I don't play much any more and only really chime in to do the background complaint stuff these days, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. However; 'Gaslighting, the round' isn't really very fun imo, and constantly leads to weird and uncomfortable situations. I cannot think of an antag that has led to more off-putting tickets and situations than vampire just due to how it's constructed. At which point you either ignore the obvious connotations, or people lean into them and get icky. The only thing biting and memory wipe lends itself too is gathering power for the sake of power, before either a) They stealth the entire round, b) Get caught and then play hide and seek veil walk until they hulk or c) Go around converting/thralling everyone. As someone else mentioned, a starting power base with the option of getting more blood back seems a much more interesting take. The only downside would be encouraging thralling and conversion too much. However it's still better than the current narrative of 'Oh, I just woke up in a corridoor with a headache and a guy I don't know, surely it was a pleasant conversation!!' gameplay loop. Antags that break logical character conclusions are just frustrating.

Locking and archiving.

Okay, all finished. From what I'm seeing, this was really only an IC issue all said and done - for the reasons I'll outline. The locker evidence Your character, Tagada, was the first to originally announce the crew armory had been broken into. In my mind, I would not raise an eyebrow if this in turn made you culprit number 1 from the get-go of something odd going on. Being around the lockers just compounds that. Returning to the scene of the crime and all that. There was no CE present to stamp the crate to begin with. Vanishing weapons and the appearance of two wrapped up boxes with a stamp from a command member who did not exist is also a lot and does not take all too much to guess the connection with. I this had been the only factor and had led to a quicker investigation directly to said boxes, then I feel there would be an issue. As is, this seems to have come pretty late in. Another character, Yihwa, reported the incident to security about how suspicious it was that they'd seen you wandering around with the crates very close to the break-in site. This was acted on by Excalibur and seems to have been a large part of their suspicion - as seen by them reporting it to security and using it to explain their thoughts over comms as to why you were potentially an issue. There was no CSI for the majority of the round, and the head of security left pretty early on into it all. Coupled with a much more murder-y antag that took priority and side-lined the investigation that was being discussed by sec. Whilst I would usually want a head of staff to sign off on them checking the lockers due to it, there wasn't really that option here. Putting this all together IC is not a stretch. If anything, security was very slow to really bother and there was a lot of chat over convincing themselves otherwise on reasons no to check the lockers - an unfortunate side effect of server culture, which I will come to. All in all, I don't think any rules on this section were broken. There would have been an issue if the CE stamp was instantly ignored, or something akin to that, rather than it being a number of contributing factors. I cannot speak for the entire admin team, but I personally look upon paperwork trails as an optional choice people can do if they so wish, but otherwise aren't required and their absence being an IC issue; the exception to this being faxes, command orders, and anything from CC. I also do not feel it is fair to penalise other players for the head of security not faxing and then going to cryo. And neither can I blame said HoS as it's not possible to know how things would have changed if they stayed. I understanding that you did your best to put together what could have been a fun scavenger hunt. And had there been less evidence, I would more likely agree that some meta knowledge went on, but things were just a little too obvious straight out of the gate. The Z.I issue The Z.I that threw you out of the lobby gave a whole bunch of threats beforehand to not be around and to leave. Likewise your character was very abrasive and aggressive, which is fine, but as such the ZI in return was not exactly polite back. I do not think this is a problem and it is very much an IC issue. Unfortunately the lack of ability to IR issues with antag rounds is a well documented problem, but is just how the server systems are built. No rule break. Closing notes - There's been some talk in here about how antags being 'given' the benefit of the doubt and some free rope is wrong/bad/irrelevant and I disagree. People are often required to 'give the antag a chance' even when it sometimes directly breaks character and plausibility, mostly to get the benefit of gimmicks having a chance. Otherwise the vast majority of rounds would involve dead antags 30 minutes in and no real interesting narrative -personal feelings aside, it's just a sacrifice between gameplay and roleplay which happened here too. If anything, security was very slow to really do anything about it, which likely contributed to a lack of investigation and interview (outside of at the very end of the round) - which I understand people do not wish to get into trouble or deal with bwoinks. - We do not require every department to act as if they were really employed. Medical is not required to learn medical terms. Engineers are not required to follow OISHA. People are not expected to be at their desk 27/4 This includes security not needing to treat very abrasive characters with the patience required of the role - so long as they're reasonable - per the Z.I. It's a video game first, a workplace in a distant third or fourth. - Again, I understand why this was a disappointing round for you, Tagada. You had a cool plan and it would have been likely more fun if things had clicked. But as is, I do not feel rules were broken and Aurora has always side-lined certain aspects of roleplay - paperwork, IC consequences on antag rounds, enforcement of sop oocly - in return for other things such as not immediately calling in the troops for lockers that look real shady with logic behind it that doesn't really make much IC sense. However! I have already spoken to some people about their conduct of this complaint outside of the game. That being the relay and some unkind things said. Otherwise it's all set and I'll be locking and archiving this within a day or so.

I understand. I'll take a look and should have this resolved by the weekend. In the meantime if you @DriedMilk wish to comment or add anything, please do so within the next few days - and anyone else present before I log search.

Hi, I'll be taking this. After reading through, the very base issue that's being reported here @Tagada is that you feel security did not follow proper SoP in opening the lockers, and instead based it off of OOC reasoning?

Whilst I try to be neutral in giving feedback and raising concerns for most apps I post on, this one isn't the case. Per the issues raised for your skrell app, I am very against you getting a command WL. The mentioned problems of making others uncomfortable and seemingly a lack of being able to pick between IC and OOC is a really bad mix from my perspective to get a WL. Especially given the warning you received not too long ago for making questionable looc comments not too far gone - of which I feel fine bringing up given it's documented on the forums anyway. Likewise dealing with you as a service manager really sucked in the constant micromanaging, to the point where it was OOCly unfun to deal with. To cap things off, my dealings with you from the staff side have been very negative when it come to attitude and the way issues have been approached and dealt with. I do not see any real change per the March skrell issues and giving you a position of 'authority' even just ICly seems to my mind a mistake.

Considered it a bit. Given this isn't the first ban and I'm not at all confident that there will be any change this time around due to a fairly lengthy history, I'm going to deny it for now. You can reapply in a month or two.

Heya, You have quite a few entries for things like valid hunting, power gaming, poor sec play, ect. Why will this time be any different if I do lift the ban given it's your second?