CampinKiller

So HoS characters go fuck themselves and become HoPs or just get put under the command of someone with no security experience?

To add to the above about Detectives, IRL Detectives are, 95% of the time, officers who took an exam and did further training to become a detective. Not some random schmuck pulled in and given a gun.

The red uniforms looked like shit compared to the blue and what we have now. And I used to love the red uniforms, and didn’t initially like the switch. This really comes down to personal preference. I like the blue uniform as an officer, because it’s a nice contrast to the vest I wear over it, and it looks professional. Some people prefer the all black getup, which there isn’t anything wrong with, though it doesn’t look completely professional. At the end of the day, this is a corporate security arm, and there are visitors and persons not employed by NanoTrasen on board. It looks a lot better to appear professional to the public, as opposed to looking like a soldier that might bag you if you say something bad about the company

Personally, if you throw a couple sentences out, cool, whatever. If you continually speak in whatever language nobody can understand you in, you should probably be PDA'ing whoever you're talking to, instead of flooding Common with something that few can understand. If you are told to cease by a head of staff and keep doing it, then you've given them a reason to charge you.

I like this. However, I wear the EMT jacket. I think it looks good :c

I was originally in support of this, but not anymore. If we are completely removing the ability of Sec to coordinate, they will be rolled on a constant basis. As an HoS-main, I will have approximately 0 power over my officers outside of code red, because “the officers are under their department heads, who are encouraged to listen to advice of HoS.” Any antags that work together would smoke the station. The goal of a round isn’t to win, yes, but if we want a chaotic, antag station every round, why don’t we rebrand as that and switch to LRP? There are better ways to rework sec that don’t involved cutting the HoS’s balls off and making it impossible for them to coordinate

Something that wasnt really addressed (that I saw) was my question in regards to association with these groups. If one these groups are stated to want command staff gone, is that not to be considered sedition for undermining the chain of command?

Both of these organizations goals very quickly veer into sedition/mutiny territory. Is association with these groups cause for arrest on these charges? Also, this seems very hamfisted, as others have said, into a "unions good, evil corporate bad" mindset.

I think the issue here is that the person who SSD’d was staff, if this is the incident I’m thinking of from yesterday. Whether it was intentional or not, I do not know

My main issue with this is how hard it actually is to get out of cuffs. It’s not something that is an easy task, hence why it is not simple in game. Imagine being handcuffed to a chair in the real world - how would you get out of the handcuffs and chair in 2 minutes?

Well bah humbug to you too

I will also say, it is completely unfair to judge my actions with Null (despite the captain having been freed), when I had no options. They wanted to be freed, Central command had given us orders to capture/borg them, so there was no option to negotiate their freedom, considering if I let them free, I’d be violating a loyalty implant’s parameters.

Yeah, and forgetting is my mistake, obviously, but it's not hard to understand why if you look at the round. And really, with that amount of chaos, there's only so much you can do. You have to start making split-second calls because you have several different situations, and things won't be perfectly organized. Hence, why I think the comments from Unknown are not exactly fair (or entirely accurate). It's easy to say "oh you should have done such and such" as a ghost, especially when CCIA was piling on with the antags, in a way, with the orders they were giving us.

Okay, let's break this down. I did not "intentionally lie" about anything. I was getting screamed at by about 50 people, and forgot I'd sent an EBS about the blob. My mistake. However, we were never informed that the ERT was only there to deal with the blob, and everyone on Command was quite surprised. The ERT players (at least, the S/Tpr) acted very unprofessionally towards us, given that we were trying to deal with several standoffs. The Null situation, the Captain had been freed, according to the AI, at which point, we took him down, as he was threatening our entire crew. You forget that I literally had no choice, because Central Command had ordered us to capture Null or we would all be fired and charged criminally. There was no negotiating because of what Central Command said. Half the reason the Null standoff took forever was because I was trying to decide, from an OOC standpoint, if there was any way to negotiate given the orders from Central Command and the presence of a loyalty implant. I was attempting to negotiate with the IPC when someone shot a fuel tank. I was also trying to get someone to bring up the body, but a janitor beat officers to it and threw it to them. They did not notice this. Cue the fuel tank exploding and Security firing anyways. As I said when we briefly talked on discord, I never once "played a hero" or "went after people alone." I dispatched officers in every case, or did not respond unless it was an officer in need of assistance. I was organizing officers, though it was quite difficult with 2 different standoffs (a hostage situation and the Null standoff). Prior to that, I organized an effective manhunt for the Roboticist, and had organized a search and rescue party for the crashed shuttle organized prior to that. Autotraitor is a bad round to judge a head on, especially a Captain/HoS, just because of the sheer chaos that can ensue. This was an absolutely chaotic round, and things did not go perfectly, sure. Towards the end, as everything went crazy, yes, organization broke down some because Security was stretched thin, one officer/FT wasn't listening, and the AI was so busy they couldn't help officers in some cases. I was also having to try and negotiate with Null, and so was preoccupied, but still managed things.

Reporting Personnel: Brian Caruso Job Title of Reporting Personnel: Security Officer Game ID: bX7-cwQN Personnel Involved: - Paul Jonson, Captain (Offender) - Jesse Armstrong, Security Officer (Witness) - Ulen'Min Quimil, Detective (Witness) - Nathan Keppel, Security Officer (Witness) Time of Incident: 10:00 Real Time: 1200CST 1/1/19 Location of Incident: Red Dock Nature of Incident: [ ] - Workplace Hazard [ ] - Accident/Injury [ ] - Destruction of Property [ ] - Neglect of Duty [ ] - Harassment [ ] - Assault [X] - Misconduct [ ] - Other _____ Overview of the Incident: A diona, who's name I cannot recall, was in violation of regulations in regards to Hooliganism by starting a minor fire when they opened their lighter, as there was some trace amounts of phoron in Red Dock. The Captain suggested, quite seriously, that we should space the diona if we had to. When questioned about this, he defended it, saying that diona could survive in space. Did you report it to a Head of Department or IAA? If so, who?: No Actions taken: N/A Additional Notes: N/A

Fair, but I’d like to see a little Security desk in said departments for them to use

Okay, that kind of authority is warranted. I thought you meant much wider authority

What sense would it be to have a Chief Engineer in charge of an officer, though? The head of staff should be able to do what they currently do - prevent them from performing searches if not authorized, or their presence in certain areas, but if you have a department's head as their supervisor, the HoS becomes useless, and that head could would be issuing orders for a job they are not trained to understand.

The way I would imagine this: Start of round, Security spawns as normal, HoS makes assignments to departments. This is so any possibly empty, or single-person departments, aren't having an officer thrown into them over a filled Medical department, for example. During standard operation, Security officers are expected to remain in their assigned departments barring a call for assistance from another officer or some other major incident. If, say, there are 4 officers and only 3 active departments (or 1 department is very low staffed, such as a single engineer, or cargo tech), extra officer(s) can perform normal patrol and response duties for the station at-large, but not going on another officer's "turf" (department) unless absolutely necessary. During non-standard operations, the HoS can pull Security officers from assigned departments as necessary, depending on the situation and status of members in that department. In regards to the question of the HoS: his function remains the same, if you do not decentralize Security by taking away their radio network and placing them under their assigned department's head of staff. If you do decentralize them in that manner, then I'm not sure how this would work.

In a way, though, it’s no different from a cop on a patrol post needing assistance IRL. Until they need assistance the other cops are on their own patrol routes, but if they call out for assistance, they leave those routes to help. I think it would be similar in game - say the Cargo Officer gets into a gunfight, the science/medical officer comes to assist and returns once the situation is resolved

I feel like the trick here will be in enforcement. In the past, the problem has been that antags can only get away with so much before they begin to toe the line of the chip in the head of the HoS/Captain telling said person to shut it down. How will this be enforced with general consistency among the staff team?

Yes, please remove. They look dumb and unprofessional

I’m cool with this, long as it’s reasonable. Someone who has a (potentially) deadly weapon defends themself? Cool. Let it flow naturally, play stupid games, win stupid prizes, maybe you get lucky and get away or disable the antag. The one thing I don’t want to see, though, is an unarmed assistant rush a guy with a gun, or a group of guys with guns. That just shouldn’t ever happen

Hey man, there wasn't a code for formatting, my paperwork is top notch. I can also assure you that in the 4 years I've played SS13, I've got a grasp on most jobs (except Xenoflora and that voodoo magic). The ones I play now are the ones I enjoy. They are mostly Security, though you can see me playing as an AI, Paramedic, or something else every so often. When I told you I would do that, it was when you were seriously suggesting, in OOC, that you'd shut down the Sec department as Captain and force them to work elsewhere. While this would be something a Captain could do, I find it to be 2 things: 1. Done in completely poor taste, as you're now forcing people who want to play a certain job to not be allowed to do that job for your OOC wish to have a Sec ratio. (hence complaint/ahelp worthy) 2. From an IC standpoint, a very bad idea, considering that the Aurora is supposed to be a secured research station, and ISD being completely shut down would be a serious risk. (hence IR worthy) I don't feel like it is a blurred line, in that instance, as when you're seriously affecting someone's ability to enjoy the game, as multiple players who would be impacted said, it becomes more than an IC issue. Bleh, I realized I forgot to address something else. When playing Caruso, I've had to deal with things/people either I, or Caruso, don't particularly care for, and performed quite well. A couple examples for you: 1. Captain orders Security to fire upon and detain (supposed) Biesel gov't officials. Caruso is not about to do that to government officials, and even helps two escape. All IC. 2. A Captain character I OOC'ly do not care for issues an order that Caruso (and, OOCly, me) does not agree with, but carries out regardless. All IC. Just because you don't care for/agree for your boss doesn't mean you can't work with them. Likewise, I might not like certain people OOCly, but you don't see me going around and not working with them/taking out problems on them ICly.

I really don't have an issue with separating IC/OOC, for the most part. I think my feelings around that time were more borne from frustration than anything, which doesn't make them right. I don't still feel that way, to say the least.