CampinKiller

Sec has never used those, ever. It’s a pain in the ass to get them to the main level anyway. It’s far more likely an antag tries to break out in them than sec randomly uses them for whatever reason, which is why the sublevel is surrounded by EMP mines.

I agree with Abo regarding the cadetship part - either remove it outright or allow exceptions for violent acts occurring in their presence. If an investigator arrests a murderer that they just witnessed murder somebody, I would not be charging them for Gross Negligence and Illegal Detention/Arrest/Holding. Far from it, I would be commending them for stopping a murderer.

Fighting antags for the most part. People don't execute antags, that happens to typically be against the rules. Even if you mean executing as hyperbole for fighting antags with slugs, what else is ammunition supposed to be used for? Should all lethal ammunition be removed because security only uses it to fight antags?

Yeah removing them from the lathe is a terrible idea, as they are most definitely needed by security, and not just for your completely baseless accusation of “executing antags.”

Don't worry, I'm incapable of reading lmao

I'd prefer heads of staff continue to not be able to be antagonists. The days of head of staff antags were overloaded with incredibly powerful antags basically having an entire department under their thumb and being incredibly frustrating to deal with, not to mention unrealistic and typically annoying - moreso, in my opinion, than antagonist security. I'd love if it didn't return.

I'd much prefer wizard axed before these two

So was malf, yet malf got removed because 99% of malf rounds were terrible, same as 99% of wizard rounds.

I'm not sure if you've noticed the incredible amount of canon attacks and violence that's happened at the civilian mining station, and security remains relatively lightly armed from a lore perspective.

I'm incredibly curious as to not only the WHY (especially given current antaggery), to include in terms of the lore, but also as to how serious a suggestion that is.

Putting aside everything that has already been said about the event being done with admin-spawned gear that was impossible to fight, I was the Head of Security, and that character had no intention of killing soldiers of his home country, much less getting his entire team slaughtered by trying to repel the military force that had them outnumbered and outgunned. This was an IC decision, not just because we'd be PK'd, but it would've happened in a merc round if a similar instance occurred. We were actually getting security ready to fight, but in a covert manner, not overtly charging in guns blazing to our deaths. This was really more of a poorly-run event than anything.

To piggyback off of prate, security has already been so heavily nerfed that there are currently times when security could get stomped easily, such as merc rounds where the mercs just roll in guns blazing, as they easily outgun security. Removing it would just cause rounds to spiral.

I think forcing people to play in any capacity is bad. To play devil's advocate, are we really going to be noting, warning, and/or banning people because they voted for a roundtype and then didn't want to play? Or perhaps even had some emergency pull them away? It's no different than the old proposal to prevent people from cryo'ing if they don't like the rountype - forcing people to play when they don't want to is bad. I also don't think this is a widespread issue. Except maybe deadhour.

I'm really curious as to why it was merged despite overwhelmingly negative feedback on the idea

Agony shouldn’t be reduced so hard with that pain change as well

If you're going to lower ammo, you can't lower damage, and vice versa. Personally I'd leave the ammunition capacity where it is and lower damage. Otherwise as danse said, might as well give Sec back .45s, because both make them completely useless. Removing lethal shots thru windows also makes them useless for carp, dwellers, and many other hostile things that they were introduced to deal with without Sec having to break out the rifles.

[b]Reporting Personnel:[/b] Marc Price [b]Job Title of Reporting Personnel:[/b] Head of Security [b]Game ID:[/b] b0o-axAo [b]Personnel Involved:[/b] Ian White, Scientist, Offender Jack Monroe, Anomalist, Offender Sidney Taylor, Lab Assistant, Witness [b]Secondary Witnesses:[/b] Fros'Qerr Vel-Rena, Surgeon: Operated on White after White sustained serious brain injury Milo Mendez, Detective: Interrogated White and Monroe after the discovery, also witnessed what was found in Lab. [b]Time of Incident:[/b] Approx 2130 TCStandard [b]Real Time:[/b] 2245 CST, 11/30/20 [b]Location of Incident:[/b] Anomalous Materials Lab Atrium [b]Nature of Incident:[/b] [X] - Workplace Hazard [ ] - Accident/Injury [ ] - Destruction of Property [X] - Neglect of Duty [ ] - Harassment [ ] - Assault [X] - Misconduct [ ] - Other [b]Overview of the Incident:[/b] Late in the shift, a call relating to someone giving Ian White brain damage was broadcast over Common by Miss Taylor. I asked my Detective to look into it, and he quickly discovered that the R&D staff had constructed an illegal boxing ring on the sublevel. We went to the sublevel and were let in by Monroe, and found boxing gloves, copious amounts of blood, and pain medication so "fighters could continue fighting." Statements made by Monroe and then White admitted to two combatants fighting until the other was unconscious. The shift end was so close that we did not have any further time to investigate who else was involved in the fighting ring. [b]Submitted Evidence:[/b] PDA Chat Log: Photograph of the lab: Full pill bottle of pain medication: There was also a transcript of the on site interrogation ((lost due to connorjg1 lagging out)). [b]Did you report it to a Head of Staff or a superior? If so, who? If not, why?:[/b] No, I was the only head at the time of the incident [b]Actions taken:[/b] White and Monroe were notified they were being arrested for neglect of duty pending further investigation [b]Additional Notes:[/b] N/A

The two back to back rounds and then the third round from some time ago are the only times I’ve played with that character and they have acted in this manner every time. I do not have the specific round ID for the round referenced from a few weeks prior. Despite having only played those 3 rounds with this character I have heard from several others that this is a recurring issue with the character

BYOND Key: CampinKiller Game ID: b0j-aI8t Player Byond Key/Character name: Guillermo Chauvin/MagnificentMelkior Staff involved: N/A Reason for complaint: Chauvin acts in an incredibly insubordinate and foolish manner, willingly violates simple uniform regulations on a regular basis, and constantly argues with both their superiors and their fellow officers over the simplest of things. In my opinion, the character breaks the realistic behavior rule, and there is no IC recourse due to the only rounds I have observed this occurring were antag-involved rounds, or directly related to antag actions. The listed round is probably the most egregious example of Chauvin's behavior. During a hostage situation in engineering, they simply got up and left, despite standing orders for officers to remain on post and be prepared to assault the barricaded mercs inside of engineering. When confronted with this after the fact, they simply said "I left to make sure everything else was in order" despite the situation being the only active security threat. This resulted in me ordering them to be charged for Gross Negligence. Throughout the round they also took up a very combative tone with other officers, and even my HoS. This is not the only round this has occurred in, otherwise I would not be making the complaint. In the prior round (I believe) I latejoined and Chauvin was the warden. I was informed that the surviving merc prisoner had their headset with all access, as well as other things. I ordered Chauvin to relieve them of their headset. Chauvin initially resisted, telling my HoS to "let him handle it" and implying that the HoS should go away. He also had completely failed to search a prisoner who was in custody for several HuT crimes, resulting in the prisoner overdosing and Chauvin being charged for Neglect of Duty. It should also be noted that his foolish and argumentative attitude was on display as he actively questioned the merc's status as a prisoner because of "self-defense" from station security. In the final example that I have firsthand involvement in, there was a cult round a few weeks ago where an officer murdered someone in front of the entirety of command and security. After their eventual arrest, Chauvin joined and was ordered to process them for murder. They repeatedly questioned and argued with both my HoS and the Captain over the murder charge, outright demanding evidence and disregarding our and the security staff's witness testimonies that we all stated we had seen it occur. They had to be ordered several times to process the arrest, and continued to argue throughout the process. I do not take issue with argumentative characters, or characters who question things, however it is done in the extreme by Chauvin. He regularly toes the line of being charged or suspended for his attitude. In my opinion, it is not a realistic character, nor realistic attitude for a character in his position to be taking. Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? No, as it was handled ICly in round, though due to antag involvement there cannot be further consequence Approximate Date/Time: Approx. midnight (12AM) CST, Nov 25th

[b]Reporting Personnel:[/b] Marc Price [b]Job Title of Reporting Personnel:[/b] Head of Security [b]Personnel in Question:[/b] Guillermo Chauvin [b]Job Title of Personnel in Question:[/b] Warden/Security Officer [b]Reason for Review:[/b] [ ] - Extended Arrest History [X] - Grievous Infraction on Record [ ] - Other [b]Notes:[/b] He has received two separate charges for negligent behavior in the previous day.

I just want to clarify some inaccuracies in your reply, without turning this into an argument and derailing the thread. The Vault was breached well before the marine arrived. The actual player who was the marine didn't join until the investigation has wrapped up as well. A combat suit like the banshee likely would have been suspected to have weapons, and the Marine was presumed to have weapons in their bag - they're a military scout, they could have grenades, carbines, anything shoved into a holster, their bag, or pockets. There's also the possibility of engaging a scout would cause the rest of the forces following to be much more aggressive - this is a civilian station, not a military outpost. The hostage situation was resolved in the best way it could. We tried to enter negotiations, and the janitor wordlessly threw two manhack grenades at us, which harmed the hostage as well, resulting in security engaging the janitor with lethal force. That's the best way that could've ended given the actions of the janitor. This was a sarcastic remark to your repeated suggestions that security engage a better-armed and better-trained opponent with only 2 members, and your other hostile comments. I'm not sure how you interpret that as encouraging a militia. I want to point out that security tazed the Tajaran when they ran, who then chose to throw the IED. Security didn't make them do anything, and your character running up to the immediate aftermath and outright accusing the HoS of murder in front of half your department is still completely uncalled for.

I have to downvote this in the strongest of terms. Round ref: b0h-cjxu Stob's RD acted in an incredibly hostile, aggressive, and all around shitter manner, for lack of a better term. They repeatedly insulted my HoS, during security situations, for things that either did not occur, or because security wasn't validing the antag. The background of the round: A Solarian Scout appeared on station, with a barebones security staff. Seeing military-grade equipment, my HoS elected to not engage as they are not a threat to the crew, but simply taking some pictures. Due to other situations, this was put on the backburner, and the Scout even helped out medical at one point in the round. Eventually, Security tried to arrest a scientist for several minor charges some time later on, and they used an IED that essentially blew themselves up. At this point, Stob's RD runs in, outright screaming at my HoS of being incompetent and murdering the scientist. This was the culmination of their absolutely awful command behavior on the command network for the entirety of the round that I was present for. Below are several screenshots. After Price said he wouldn't engage the scout with just him and one officer: No militia was encouraged at any time: Antagonizing during a hostage situation: After a scientist tried to blow us up with an IED: Some more fun on command after the Captain joined: All in all, I find this kind of behavior from a member of command towards another member to be awful. I do not believe that they should hold a command whitelist if this is the kind of behavior that they were exhibit - essentially demanding that security valid an antag, then antagonizing the HoS when they do not get their way.

Reporting Personnel: Marc Price Job Title of Reporting Personnel: Head of Security Game ID: N/A Personnel Involved: Vira Bolivar, Captain, Offender Saul Walker, CCIA Agent, Offender CCIA Division, Offender Ian White, Scientist, Victim Secondary Witnesses: The witnesses listed in this report: https://forums.aurorastation.org/topic/15112-incident-report-11562/?tab=comments#comment-142461 Time of Incident: 11:52 Tau Ceti Standard Real Time: 1230 CST, 11/7/2020 Location of Incident: N/A Nature of Incident: [ ] - Workplace Hazard [ ] - Accident/Injury [ ] - Destruction of Property [X] - Neglect of Duty [ ] - Harassment [ ] - Assault [X] - Misconduct [X] - Covering up a federal offense Overview of the Incident: Agent Saul Walker has elected to cover up the criminal actions of Captain Vira Bolivar that I reported on 11/5/2462. I was very surprised when I was notified of the investigation into the incident concluded a mere two days after making it, without me ever being notified that an investigation had been opened, or who it was assigned to. In addition, I received no notice of the outcome, as is typical of the reporter. Finally, I myself, the originator of the incident, was never interviewed by an agent. This seemed incredibly unusual, and after discussing the situation with nearly every listed witness I could, it appears that not a single one of them was contacted by investigators. I would love to know how such a major investigation into the misconduct of a Captain, which violated federal statutes, was resolved in two days with nobody interviewed. Then I go into the records that I have access to through my position and discover that Captain Bolivar was simply re-assigned for a week to District Six in Mendell City. In fact, it is not a punishment at all, but an appointment as the public face of NanoTrasen's recruitment efforts, which a court could construe as a promotion. So we are to believe that the proper punishment for committing a federal crime is to transfer the offender to a cushy appointment for one week, having conducted no investigation at all, and hoping it goes away? Bolivar has made no effort to hide the fact that she has somehow gotten this incident swept under the rug, posting in the public relay that she is there, and engaging in discussions with the victim of the incident, insinuating that he is both hysterical and that the incident never occurred, despite it having taken place in front of the entirety of the Internal Security Department. In addition, Dr. White is aware of the fact that this has been covered up by Agent Walker, and now the entirety of the station is acutely aware that Captain Bolivar has gotten away with drugging the victim of a kidnapping. There is no way that a significant portion of the crew could ever work with her, much less take orders from her, and that includes members of command. Dr. White is an incredibly well-liked member of the crew, and with how public the knowledge of the incident is now getting, Captain Bolivar will command zero respect from the crew, which will likely cause numerous incidents. And heaven forbid that this happens again and the coverup comes to light - that would look rather bad should a similar incident occur, especially if the federal government was involved in a future incident. This matter must be actually resolved, and Agent Walker must receive punishment for playing favorites and covering this up - unless he'd like to end up in federal prison with Bolivar. Submitted Evidence: Did you report it to a Head of Staff or a superior? If so, who? If not, why?: N/A Actions taken: Made this report. Perhaps the CCIABS will handle it properly Additional Notes: It would be a shame if I were forced to report this incident to federal authorities in the FIB, in compliance with the law, as opposed to having it handled through the company channels.

Reporting Personnel: Marc Price Job Title of Reporting Personnel: Head of Security Game ID: b9Y-aJs7 Personnel Involved: Vira Bolivar, Captain, Offender Ian White, Scientist, Victim Cart Kanara, Corporate Liason, Witness IRU-Kathy, CSI, Witness Secondary Witnesses: Silos Lir'Dev, Warden: Witnessed the Captain give Ian White a drugged cup of coffee M.ART-YR, Research Director: Presented with the facts of the incident, voted to have Captain apprehended for regulation violations Melissa Al-Mifsud, Chief Medical Officer: Stated that the pharmacist "made a mistake" with the Captain's order and suggested that the drug they asked for would have been worse for White. Ana Roh'hi'tin, Security Officer: Witnessed the Captain give Ian White a drugged cup of coffee Locke, Detective: Assisted Captain in interrogation before the drugging occurred. Interrogated Taika Thompson Amy Tennant, Pharmacist: Filled Captain's order for the drug used Taika Thompson, Xenobotanist: Also kidnapped along with White and returned Time of Incident: approx 0300 BST Real Time: 0000 CST, 11/5/2020 Location of Incident: Interrogation Room Nature of Incident: [ ] - Workplace Hazard [ ] - Accident/Injury [ ] - Destruction of Property [ ] - Neglect of Duty [ ] - Harassment [X] - Assault [X] - Misconduct [X] - Mistreatment of Prisoners, Possession of Contraband Overview of the Incident: During this shift, Captain Vira Bolivar inserted herself over trained investigative staff into a major Internal Security investigation regarding the kidnapping, and then return, of Mr. Ian White and Ms. Taika Thompson. In doing so, she violated a number of regulations, by drugging Mr. White during an interrogation. Shortly after the shift had begun, security responded to a call of an armed individual at the merchant dock. Responding officers found a suited individual with military-grade weaponry. As I gave the order to unlock disruptors and arm up, the Captain ordered security to allow them to do as they pleased, which resulted in the kidnapping of Ian White and Taika Thompson. A guard detail was posted to the merchant docking area by myself, armed, in case the ship returned. It returned, dropping off Ian and bombing the dock in the process, resulting in the arming of the rest of the team. It was at this time that Ian was treated by medical, and then taken to the brig to be interviewed regarding his kidnapping. The Captain, for whatever reason, decided to be personally involved in the interrogation, taking the reigns from the Detective throughout the interview. It was during this time that she was informed by Mr. Kanara that White had information for a classified project that she was not cleared for. Despite being informed several times, she elected to try to pry the information from White. As the interview went nowhere, she request a door lock and handcuffs to be brought, which were brought by the warden. She then showed a drug bottle of Parvosil to the group of gathered personnel, walked off, and returned with a cup of coffee. She gave the cup to White, who drank it and immediately tasted the drug, knowing what had happened. She admitted to drugging him over communications and in person several times later on. White then was escorted by her out of the brig before IRU-Kathy could get a blood sample for evidence purposes. It was at this point that I spoke with Kanara and the Research Director regarding what had transpired. After a review of the facts and a discussion of what was witnessed, it was clear to us that the Captain had violated i208, i212, and i219 by drugging White and, on advice from Kanara, that part of the Parvosil medication included mindbreaker toxin. It was also discussed that due to the attempts to reveal classified information from White, she could be guilty of i308. Kanara faxed Central Command regarding the issue, and advised the two active command staff (myself and the RD) that due to the circumstances and the unusual nature, we could hold a command vote to arrest the Captain under the regulations. The vote passed unanimously, 2-0. At that point, I briefed Security, and informed the Captain of the decision. The Captain claimed myself and Kanara had been conspiring for some time, as they'd been monitoring our PDA logs, and that we were guilty of sedition. She claimed, baselessly, that I had lied to command, and that myself and Kanara stood to gain from removing her from command via arrest and contacting Central. Due to a very tense meeting in the brig briefing room, it was decided that we would continue the shift without arrest and file the reports at Central Command, as no response to any faxes had been received. As we were preparing to depart, the CMO stated that their pharmacist had made a mistake and given the Captain the wrong drug, implying that the true request by the Captain was a much worse substance. The Captain never replied with what their order was. Submitted Evidence: N/A Did you report it to a Head of Staff or a superior? If so, who? If not, why?: It was reported to the other command staff active at the time (RD) and the Corporate Liason. Actions taken: Command vote held to arrest the Captain on charges, passed unanimously. Central command faxed regarding advice and the decision. Captain ordered to present themselves to arrest, but was not carried out due to the tense situation in the briefing room. Additional Notes: Drugging a victim in such a serious investigation to gain access to information they are not cleared for is appalling behavior, especially for a Captain.

I understand where you are coming from, but for general knowledge purposes, it would not be elevating any heads above another. The reason one suggestion is limiting it to mindshielded members of command is so that command members that fall under antag influence don't just easily give up that there's a self-destruct device on the station. Yes, operation should be limited to the Captain/Acting Captain, I am not suggesting that anyone other than the Captain should know how to work it. Again, this is not for the knowledge of how to work it to be disseminated, but rather for the knowledge that a self-destruct exists to be passed to command/the HoS. There is great benefit to the HoS knowing about it - they don't accidentally trade away the disk in a hostage negotiation, they actually can understand the severity when they are told 'someone has this disk/is in the SAT/knows about the SAT.' As opposed to the current "Hey HoS there's a thing I can't tell you about that is being threatened and I cannot tell you why it's a threat or really anything, just deal with it." In regards to the SAT being left to the NT-ERT, command players are quite literally already being criticized for calling the ERT when it is not necessary - Security could easily handle it and without the regular officer figuring out it's a nuke, bar a gunfight happening inside the hallway - which would give it away anyway, ERT or not. The overall point that some people are missing is not to tell command/HoS that the station has a nuke, and/or how to work it, but rather to tell them the station has a self-destruct failsafe that can be triggered if the Captain deems it necessary and it is approved by Central Command. It doesn't even have to be that detailed - the presence of a failsafe wouldn't be surprising in the slightest, as many vessels likely have them in the universe.