CampinKiller

That is an incredibly hot take to have. You seem to have neglected to mention where these people, including the one at large, committed several serious crimes, attempted to kill and assaulted members of security, and were an overall threat to the station. Given what myself and the Chief Engineer were aware of, we decided to keep it at red during the round, because of the armed person teleporting around that had attacked crew. This was not a solo decision. I gave the CE and later the Captain multiple statements of 'we could lower' that were not taken up, so this is not a solo decision. I was even contacted by Yonnimer before I realized it was 2:30 (as I latejoined), and there was no indication I should break character to lower the alert. I disagree based upon the IC knowledge of the round, but by the time CC questioned it the Captain was on station. Apparently I am the only decision-maker, though. The ERT is also outfitted with advanced weapons and things security does not have. They arrived as the antag (who for some reason in your eyes shares no blame for doing nothing except cult-walling themselves when found and teleporting away) actually did something, and didn't set up walls properly, so they got predictably bodied. What I don't understand is that we are expected to roleplay properly, but you expected us to break character and shoehorn it for a round time problem, despite an ongoing threat. The reason they were free is we tried to get them to surrender instead of just up and shooting them, but I suppose by your line of logic I should immediately order them shot before they turn expressly hostile next time, as opposed to actually acting realistically. But then I guess I would be breaking the rules regarding escalation, so I can't win, can I? But yes, you're right, my "I must collect them all" attitude of allowing heisters and merc teams to escape, agreeing to call a truce and let hostiles leave, negotiating for the safe release of hostages, etc. is really what is going on here. Amazing work for you to catch that, from a completely reasonable IC response to IC actions, that weren't solely my decision.

Nope. I'm not sure where you get that idea. The thing that you are failing to understand here is that harming your hostages absolutely destroys your credibility. I can not trust you to act in good faith if your first actions are to beat hostages, and I for sure cannot trust that I will get them back alive and in one piece. It was the conclusion I made, but it is a reasonable conclusion to reach, as, to my knowledge, you are actively doing harm to your hostages. They may not even be hostages, but rather meat shields, as there aren't any good reasons for beating a hostage. It's the reason that police forces around the world IRL stop truly negotiating when someone throws a body out the front door, because now they have to act before anyone else is killed. This is a video game where you have to be within a certain range to see things that realistically you'd be able to see. I am the Head of Security, and it's not like I was throwing myself directly into your line of fire. The Head of Security is not a sit at a desk role, and I do not frontline as one, but there are times when it is required to be at a situation. This is without a doubt one of those times. I was not at the front, I was to the south in the R&D hallway. I was far enough away to where if I had to, I could easily withdraw or fight. But this is not like your local station Captain showing up to the hostage situation - it's best equivalent is a police supervisor showing up to take command and establish contact. First off, you don't get to demand no explanation for my actions. My actions are driven by what has occurred, which requires context. News flash, every situation cannot be de-escalated. De-escalation is not some magical power that works at every opportunity. You were supposedly beating hostages, then fired on Security, there was no room to de-escalate, nor did it seem like it was in the best interest of the safety of the crew. As I have said twice already, because you fired on security and the decision was made to end this situation before you killed any of the hostages that you'd already harmed. I did not ignore them, but when you've already harmed your hostages and are threatening to blow their brains out, the best course of action in that moment is to remove the threat to the crew, not back off and let you continue harming them. At this point, this will be my last post on this matter, because I am repeating myself, you are refusing to accept any of my points, and now you make this asinine statement. How in the world did I "engineer" you to harm hostages, or someone to report it? Guess what, when you harm hostages and shoot at security, security will respond with force. You had no demands to speak of, as you even said in your OP. If the staff that take this complaint need any information or have any questions, I will respond, but I will not continue to repeat myself (to no avail) and be accused of somehow "engineering" your own actions.

I don't know how to split quotes, but, anyway: In regards to the medical situation, officers responded to calls for help, and you had no hostages. Your simple presence in a department does not mean the entire department is your hostage, especially when that department is yelling for help and are able to successfully run away from you. And of course they fired at you, as you'd fired at them and tried to kill them already. That is pretty standard. When it is reported to me that hostages are being beaten, there is no way for me to ICly know that they were slapped a few times for non-compliance, not being savagely beaten for reasons unknown. My concern is for the well-being of the crew, and if I am told that the hostages are being beaten by the hostiles, then it is not at all an unreasonable jump to fear that they may be killed without intervention. Hence my initial orders of "engage if hostages are clear." I do not want the hostages being beaten to death or shot by what appears to be completely unpredictable hostiles. I then arrive and am shot at (he aimed at me, because I got the 'don't move!' message), and I do not have a way of knowing this is a new player or not. Those are both very good indicators that you may well just up and kill the hostages. You've supposedly beaten one, and then you unpredictably fire at security. All the while one of your team is yelling how he's going to blow someone's brains out. If you find it to be unreasonable for security to respond to a hostage situation in force, then I'm not sure you are being serious. Security is absolutely justified in responding to the area, and setting up a perimeter, on an armed force that just took hostages, and is supposedly beating at least one of those hostages. I absolutely had evidence to support my conclusion that you were intending to harm the crew - literal seconds after you were reported on common as being in robotics, you're reported as beating the hostages. In my mind, you've gone from 0 to 100, because you take hostages and apparently start beating them. And then you say you wished to de-escalate by retreating into maintenance - why would I let people who have demonstrated sheer hostility to myself, are a clear danger to the hostages they have (by beating them), and are wildly unpredictable and threatening the hostages with death back into a place where we cannot observe, cannot rescue the hostages if you start beating them or killing them, and where you may very well go and attack more crewmembers. From my perspective, retreating into maintenance was not de-escalation. You had the option, but you were taking the hostages with you, hostages which you'd supposedly already harmed. The portion of my original post regarding how I do those things (negotiate, etc.) was included because you are wanting my whitelist to be removed, so I am providing context in regards to that. What do you mean where was I?

This was ahelped in round and the staff involved didn't find any significant issue, as I recall. Regardless, here's what I was aware of, and the reasoning behind my decisions: The terrified cadet yells that a group of armed hostiles are running past the checkpoint, and heading downstairs. Cool, so we crack open the armory. As we finish, the reports of Robotics being held hostage comes in. Officers respond to the scene, and report back to me that the intruders have taken hostages and are beating them and trying to leave. Not good, as now in any reasonable person's mind, the hostiles cannot be trusted to not harm the hostages. This makes ending the situation quickly a bigger priority, and it also makes it harder to negotiate. I finally am able to get there in order to try and negotiate. Upon my arrival, one of the hostiles (Bishop, I believe), aims his rifle at me and then fires at me. At this point, all bets are off, as before I can even get a word in, a member of your team has shot at me. Now here is what I know about the situation at that time: 1. Hostages are apparently being beaten (yes, I know from the ahelp later that it was just a few punches for noncompliance, but until then I was operating under the impression that the mercs were beating hostages for fun). 2. You are trying to leave with the hostages that you are beating by escaping through maintenance, which makes me believe you wish to do further harm to the hostages. If you're beating them in front of us, you will probably kill them later, or do further harm. That cannot be allowed to happen. 3. A member of your team aimed and then fired at me the moment I showed up, indicating that you have no intent of negotiating and intend to kill (at the very least) me, if not my entire team. There is no reasonable way that I can trust your team to not harm the hostages, and not shoot at security. So I decide that we must take you down. One of the hostages manages to escape, and we recover them. I order a flashbang before entry so the hostages will be on the floor as opposed to being used as a meatshield (spoiler alert: that didn't happen). I order the cyborg ioned, and none of us are aware that one of the hostages is a shell. That is unfortunate, but they did not appear to be a shell, and with the complete chaos and hostility from your team towards me and my officers, it's not like we were able to make that realization. In the end, unless I am wrong, the only crewmember that died was Julissa Lord, who stood in the open and tried to 1v3 the mercs once the shooting started. The IPC did die, but its brain was recovered, and eventually placed in a new shell, to my knowledge. The other hostage was injured but recovered. Obviously it was not the outcome any of us wanted, but sometimes shit happens. When you are harming hostages, start shooting at security, and try to run into maintenance with your hostages, there cannot be an expectation for negotiations. As HoS I must end that threat, because if you're already beating hostages and shooting at me, you may very well turn around and shoot the hostages in the head at any moment in time. I was not in medical for that shooting until the very end of it, but when you've shot up places and medical screams for security, I don't know what you expect. You didn't have any hostages in medical that I was aware of, and security was already there being treated and guarding prisoners. Contrary to what you said in your post, I do negotiate with antags, on a regular basis, and I do make deals with and for hostages, also on a regular basis. I do things that may not be realistic so I don't just shut down antag gimmicks before they can get off the ground every single round. However, your team left me very little choice here, as I said earlier, by being overtly hostile, harming your hostages, and then firing at me the moment I arrive to open negotiations. I believe one of your crew threatened to shoot a hostage about five times after I got there too, and there really is not much choice for me at that point. EDIT: Quick edit, I forgot to mention that Alszar fired back at the merc that shot at me, so again, Sec did not shoot first, but rather returned fire.

BYOND Key: CampinKiller Game ID: N/A Player Byond Key/Character name: RealSync Staff involved: Garnascus, Alberyk, and others, probably Reason for complaint: Low RP antagging, playing to win, and powergaming. Luke Conan (RealSync) engages in nothing but borderline LRP antaggery. He is always an antag, which is not a problem, but his RP ability while antagging is nonexistant. He plays to win, does almost the exact same thing every time, and it is incredibly annoying and frustrating. As an example: on cult rounds, he will always stealth cult until their reveal, where they have rifles and shotguns that they stole from the armory, because that's realistic for the cult, and just rush people. In the most recent instance of this, he openly admitted in AOOC to playing to win, and conspired with a vampire to try and become a vampire cultist, so he could have more power. He will never be on comms the entire shift, before popping up and going loud out of nowhere as whatever antag he is this round. He usually will use traitor items to just empty the armory of any weaponry at some point before he actually does something. His entire idea of escalation is rushing you with a weapon after not doing anything for 1:59. As a ninja, he does the same thing, emptying the armory, because a ninja really needs even more advantages. His behavior is clearly playing to win the game, at all times, and he rarely stops to RP. After being rebuked by staff in one instance earlier this week, he tried to actually RP as an antag for a day before returning back to his 'I must win' mentality. There are many other examples, but listing them all would take hours. Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yes, in the majority of cases. No idea of the various outcomes. Approximate Date/Time: Over the last week or so, in several rounds. Most recently, 2PM Central Time, September 5th

Yeah, they didn't surround me until I was bleeding out on the ground, so not sure where that statement came from

Came out of (maint? not sure) nowhere with rifles and a sword and ran straight at me

BYOND Key: CampinKiller Staff BYOND Key: Garnascus Game ID: b8X-cVLy Reason for complaint: Finding 3 cultists not in violation of the gank rules despite them clearly violating the gank rules. Told to make a staff and not a player complaint Evidence/logs/etc: Joined this round in progress, nothing is going on. Start gearing up. In the middle of gearing up, get rushed by Luke Conan, Joseph Nikolov, and K. Olsek (RealSync/???/Karhast), who are three cultists with rifles and guns. I try to escape and get chased down and killed. Total time between joining and death, about 5 minutes. There was no attempt to RP by the cultists, who, according to everyone watching, had done absolutely nothing until this point. They simply ran into the brig and decided to kill me. Fun. After the two looc messages I just gave up resisting and let them kill me. I told them to not shard me as I was not willing to play with them after being ganked, which they did anyway. Additional remarks: This is a pretty clear cut case of gank, where they rushed me without any sort of escalation, forcing me to try and run and defend myself, before getting killed because it was a 3v1 of cultist robes and ranged weapons against an epistol. Two of these people have a history of doing this, and it is ridiculous that this happened and was not taken care of by Garn, especially with the 5+ people in dchat watching it happen even agreeing it was straight up gank.

I'd love to see them removed or reworked, for reasons already mentioned. There's also nothing like being in the middle of a code red and having hivebots appear - the odds of things like that occurring in non-extended rounds should at least be lowered.

What are we, an LRP server? May as well add flash converting to rev and loyalty implants again

I’m sorry, I’m just not sure how someone who appealed a ban for this behavior less than a month ago exhibits the exact behavior (without being provoked by security as claimed in one instance) that got them banned and all they get is a note

BYOND Key: CampinKiller Game ID: b8K-c3n2 Player Byond Key/Character name: Juan-Benito Maravilla Staff involved: N/A Reason for complaint: Self-antagging, LRP behavior. Their janitor, despite not being an antag, assaulted two heads of staff (myself as HoS, and the HoP after they were suspended), brutally beat someone in the central ring of the station and fled from security, then was put into solitary for assaulting officers during processing. They screamed about being arrested on comms. They broke out of handcuffs several times, even trying to beat multiple people to death while on the shuttle in order to escape. They get their character blind drunk every round I see them. I was going to make an IR, but frankly this kind of character isn't even remotely realistic, when combined with their extensive past of doing the exact same thing. Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? No, as I was going to wait to see if they were an antag, and I had originally planned to file an IR Approximate Date/Time: August 21, approx 4 PM CST

Technology is wack, case closed

BYOND Key: CampinKiller Staff BYOND Key: Garnascus Game ID: 2 rounds prior to b8C-ayVx Reason for complaint: I received a warning for going SSD during an emergency as a head of staff. One problem though: my power cut out due to a storm, so this is not something I can control. Evidence/logs/etc: If you require news stories or text messages regarding it, I can give you that I suppose Additional remarks: Why in the name of God's green Earth am I being warned for the power cutting out? It's not like I SSD in important positions as a habit, this is honestly ridiculous.

One problem I noticed - if you're running from something like bats or viscerators that you have to hit to destroy (ie. actually click on them), it's nearly impossible to fire behind you while doing so, so you have to stay put to do it

I had someone at 50% brain activity from ~80% blood oxy. Their only wounds were a fracture and some blood loss, but no internal

Explosive implant set to "ass" triggered from "mass" in "mass murder"

I do think that the blood oxy level at which brain damage occurs should be lower. 85% is like 99/65, which is definitely low, but not going to kill you. My blood pressure irl tends low anyway, and I've been dehydrated before and had a BP of like 85/39, which isn't good, but it wasn't causing me to die either.

Pffft you never play

At this point, I'd prefer to have sub-offices be added in, and no other changes. Let it be used if Sec wants to use it, but don't force it. That way we don't have to have some asinine policy of an RD commanding a Sec officer in their department over the HoS doing so.

How is it not canon if it happens every time? Are the bats in the warehouse randomly spawning not canon? What about carp attacks? Those are just gameplay mechanics after all

This character came up to my HoS during a code red boarding, telling him that he would take a rifle because he was some sort of magical or protected person by their diety

How about we just leave it the same?