Remove chloral hydrate [1 dismissal]

[Resilynn]

Chloral hydrate is worthless.

It is so robust that you literally cannot use it, in almost any situation. You can't use it to knock someone out quickly for medical reasons, it causes toxins so it's not a viable medication and I can't think of a single situation where sopor/anesthetics wouldn't do the trick instead. It's clearly designed to be a weapon, but it's an instant knock out with no counter. Yes, you nerfed my hypo. I can still throw 5 units of chloral on someone wearing armor and it will knock them out just as well. Faster, even, than with a hypo. Why is it even in the game? In what situation is using it not too OP to be worth it? At least sopor gives you a minute to react, escape the situation, get to a safe place. There is potential for RP there. There is no RP potential for CH.

Remove it.

Also, I'd like my hypo back please, thank you.

[DronzTheWolf]

Chloral hydrate is worthless.

It is so robust that you literally cannot use it, in almost any situation. You can't use it to knock someone out quickly for medical reasons, it causes toxins so it's not a viable medication and I can't think of a single situation where sopor/anesthetics wouldn't do the trick instead. It's clearly designed to be a weapon, but it's an instant knock out with no counter. Yes, you nerfed my hypo. I can still throw 5 units of chloral on someone wearing armor and it will knock them out just as well. Faster, even, than with a hypo. Why is it even in the game? In what situation is using it not too OP to be worth it? At least sopor gives you a minute to react, escape the situation, get to a safe place. There is potential for RP there. There is no RP potential for CH.

Remove it.

Also, I'd like my hypo back please, thank you.

 

Think of this from an antag point of view, using it for kidnapping or capture. Then it makes sense to use, although I agree that it's kind of useless for the general non-antag crew. Maybe if you could order it specifically from the uplink, but as of now it exists to just be a KO for unga bunga doctors who wanna be hero man

[BurgerBB]

It's basically an antag chem where it works before someone can scream. It's meant to be chloroform but chloroform is something entirely different. Given how it works at a dosage of 2, it was meant to be used with the bar rag when applied to the face, because that transfers 5u to someone's stomach.

If this server was actually balanced I would support removing it, but it's one of those additions where it's super OP and you'd have to be a very specific situation to use it. If you want to talk about OP, talk about cyanide.

[Trazz666]

-1 this suggestion is bad and you should feel bad for suggesting it. Chloral hydrate is a shadow of it's former glory, and doesn't deserve to be gutted more than it already has.

[Resilynn]

Antags get in trouble for using it too.

[Arrow768]

Intruiging. Only days after a bug has been removed, that allowed the hypospray to insta-inject through voidsuits a thread to remove chloral (and restore the hypo to its previous state) comes up

 

Antags get in trouble for using it too.

I am not aware of this. Please provide a source that sais antags can not use chloral.

To my knowledge it can definitly be used if there is proper rp.

I.e. If its used to stun someone and then kill them, that would be ganking and therefore against the rules.

If it would be used to stun someone and then abduct them, that would be alright (afaik).

As there are usecases for it I am voting for dismissal.

[Pratepresidenten]

...its not meant to be an offensive chem, what the shit.

Its primary use is to quickly put someone under when they need emergency surgery.

The drug isnt designed to be pretty, it gives you a quick sedation at a cost, namely toxins.

If you want to antag with chems, go ahead, but keep in mind there are a LOT of other more deadly and under-utilized poisons, dont put a useful one down in the shitter because its not perfect for one's valids/antaggy needs.

[BurgerBB]

Chloral Hydrate is a gank tool. Generally anything that can insta-kill/inta-incapacitate you is a gank tool. There is only 1 situation where it won't get you in trouble and it's kidnapping, however antags don't use chloral because a chem dispenser is required and most antags are sec mains.

[Azande]

...its not meant to be an offensive chem, what the shit.

Its primary use is to quickly put someone under when they need emergency surgery.

The drug isnt designed to be pretty, it gives you a quick sedation at a cost, namely toxins.

If you want to antag with chems, go ahead, but keep in mind there are a LOT of other more deadly and under-utilized poisons, dont put a useful one down in the shitter because its not perfect for one's valids/antaggy needs.

 

It is not for surgery, it's a paralytic, not a sedative - you will feel all the pain of the operation still. If you're using it for surgery you're basically committing torture.

[Pratepresidenten]

...its not meant to be an offensive chem, what the shit.

Its primary use is to quickly put someone under when they need emergency surgery.

The drug isnt designed to be pretty, it gives you a quick sedation at a cost, namely toxins.

If you want to antag with chems, go ahead, but keep in mind there are a LOT of other more deadly and under-utilized poisons, dont put a useful one down in the shitter because its not perfect for one's valids/antaggy needs.

 

It is not for surgery, it's a paralytic, not a sedative - you will feel all the pain of the operation still. If you're using it for surgery you're basically committing torture.

 

Its literally listed under sedatives. And it also causes sleep after a brief few ticks.

It is not to be used on its own, but with mixed up with twice the units of soporific to keep the patient out.

Where on earth is this claim based? Is this from personal experience or from what someone has told you?

I also think you might be confusing chloral with chlorophoride.

[Resilynn]

Intruiging. Only days after a bug has been removed, that allowed the hypospray to insta-inject through voidsuits a thread to remove chloral (and restore the hypo to its previous state) comes up

 

The give me my hypo back was for the memes, and I literally explain that you don't need a hypo to instachloral someone.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I don't see it used so egregiously that it's a big problem. I believe it's also the liquid available in the Head of Security tranquilizer darts. I think it is fine how it is.

[Sytic]

Well, I think it's fair. It takes away the most difficult issue with Hypospray (the instant knockdown of Chloral Hydrate being overpowered as shit) while still giving the hypospray back to the CMO so it's not just erased. It's very rare for antags to use it, and they still probably won't- leaving it mostly in the hands of the Tranq darts and Chemistry. Moving it away from a chem able to be created by Chemistry, to something that may be ordered by Cargo, antags or found in the tranq darts would be much more suited for most rounds.

[Azande]

It's based on the fact that for a large period of my play time, you could still talk after being chloraled, you simply could not move.

[Butterrobber202]

Like prate said, CH is definitely not the worst poison in the Chemist's toolbelt, lets take a look at something worse.

Potassium Chlorophoride - Deals 10 toxin damage per unit. Deals 2 suffocation damage per unit. Weakens the patient, strength 10 (prevents movements or actions).

Takes 200 seconds to metabolize a single unit, making this a very effective long-lasting paralytic.

Yeah so much better Gank tools out there if someone was 'not rping'.

[Brutishcrab51]

I don't see it used so egregiously that it's a big problem. I believe it's also the liquid available in the Head of Security tranquilizer darts. I think it is fine how it is.

 

The HoS tranquilizer darts use soporific.

[Zaeperry99]

Chloral being under-utilized as an anesthetic doesn't make it an ineffective means of anesthesia. Which it is, very much so.

It is inherently superior to soporific for surgery when the KO gas can't be used (See: Punctured lung and fokken prawns). It causes patients to fall into 'hard-sleep' (A sleep caused by the chem itself, rather than just an overload of drowsiness from the chem. Patients can wake up from a 'soft-sleep' at any time, hence those under soporific waking up on the table, whereas for hard sleep the chem actually has to be out of their system to wake up) in almost 1/3 of the time it takes soporific (chloral has a 40 second avg compared to soporific's 110 second avg for a hard-sleep) which means you're a lot less likely to have patients wake up on the table mid-surgery, unless the metabolism system has a hiccup.

It also (according to the wiki, at least - I haven't seen it utilized enough to be certain and really didn't feel like pulling up a test server) only has a toxin output of 1 damage per unit, which is quite a bit less than people seem to think it is. It's hardly a cyanide - especially considering you only need 5u to put somebody under for 3 minutes.

Case in point, if anything chloral should probably be used more by medical, rather than used not at all by anybody.

[Lady Fowl]

Chloral being under-utilized as an anesthetic doesn't make it an ineffective means of anesthesia. Which it is, very much so.

It is inherently superior to soporific for surgery when the KO gas can't be used (See: Punctured lung and fokken prawns). It causes patients to fall into 'hard-sleep' (A sleep caused by the chem itself, rather than just an overload of drowsiness from the chem. Patients can wake up from a 'soft-sleep' at any time, hence those under soporific waking up on the table, whereas for hard sleep the chem actually has to be out of their system to wake up) in almost 1/3 of the time it takes soporific (chloral has a 40 second avg compared to soporific's 110 second avg for a hard-sleep) which means you're a lot less likely to have patients wake up on the table mid-surgery, unless the metabolism system has a hiccup.

It also (according to the wiki, at least - I haven't seen it utilized enough to be certain and really didn't feel like pulling up a test server) only has a toxin output of 1 damage per unit, which is quite a bit less than people seem to think it is. It's hardly a cyanide - especially considering you only need 5u to put somebody under for 3 minutes.

Case in point, if anything chloral should probably be used more by medical, rather than used not at all by anybody.

 

Good chemist's mix dylovene in with it