Increase the chance for the tau ceti legion to spawn

[Alberyk]

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/5903

That pr changes the chances of the tau ceti foreign legion being selected as the response team, to 75% from 50%, instead of the ert. If this pr is merged, the tau ceti foreign legion will be far more common than the NanoTrasen emergency team.

So, what do people think about this change?

[Snakebittenn]

Personally, I support. Legion is better gameplay-wise, both in the team and for antags. They're more coordinated and use more actual tactics instead of being 6 lone-wolfing Power Rangers that you can't bargain with. Plus, we already set it up that ERT isn't stationed near the Aurora anymore, they're with the Upsilon.

[PoZe]

I am agreed to this, especially since we still might consider doing Upsilon update.

[Mogelix]

2 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/5903

That pr changes the chances of the tau ceti foreign legion being selected as the response team, to 75% from 50%, instead of the ert. If this pr is merged, the tau ceti foreign legion will be far more common than the NanoTrasen emergency team.

So, what do people think about this change?

I'd prefer a rate closer to 65% to 35%, personally. TCFL should be more common but shouldn't make ERT rare.

[LordFowl]

This PR makes the ERT far too rare. The TCFL aren't even at a well-developed functional enough state to be doing it half the time, much less three quarters of the time. Making the ERT so rare should have more meaningful mechanics behind it than a mere flip of the coin with bias towards the TCFL.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

75% is too high without additional buildup and justification. We need more lore staff wishing to see such a thing to lean in and help Chada1 present the necessary build up.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[VTCobaltblood]

The issue is not buildup. The issue is that the lore team decides whether or not a gameplay mechanic with a clear purpose (ending rounds forcefully and ICly) lives or dies. I don't feel like the lore team has the authority to do so. A 50/50 coin flip is fine, but 75/25 makes the ERT too rare.

[ben10083]

Perhaps a compromise of 65/35?

[LordFowl]

A compromise of 50/50 already exists. Even with this compromise I encourage people to think of a mechanic more interesting and less arbitrary than simple random chance.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

9 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

The issue is not buildup. The issue is that the lore team decides whether or not a gameplay mechanic with a clear purpose (ending rounds forcefully and ICly) lives or dies. I don't feel like the lore team has the authority to do so. A 50/50 coin flip is fine, but 75/25 makes the ERT too rare.

Anyone can make a PR. The authority to merge or not rests with arrow and skull. PRs from lore staff or made on behalf of lore staff do not tie up their hands.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Scheveningen]

14 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

The issue is not buildup. The issue is that the lore team decides whether or not a gameplay mechanic with a clear purpose (ending rounds forcefully and ICly) lives or dies. I don't feel like the lore team has the authority to do so. A 50/50 coin flip is fine, but 75/25 makes the ERT too rare.

There is no actual truth to this. Keep in mind that PR posted up by fowl slated to nerf the entire station awhile back was done, generally, by lore team approval. Said PR died not just due to community pushback against it, but a myriad of other issues in addition to that.

Much as I agree that the lore team by itself should have little to do with the balance of the game, aside from Aut'akh I hadn't seen any particular offensive PR posted up yet that was masterminded by a lore dev.

[Scheveningen]

20 hours ago, LordFowl said:

This PR makes the ERT far too rare. The TCFL aren't even at a well-developed functional enough state to be doing it half the time, much less three quarters of the time. Making the ERT so rare should have more meaningful mechanics behind it than a mere flip of the coin with bias towards the TCFL.

They have a few strengths ranking in the overpowering status, actually.

1. ERT chem dispenser with a hilariously powerful loadout of pre-made chemicals of any type. Also stocks rezadone, the god-tier chem, second best to adminordrazine.
2. Fully loaded armory with extremely strong weapons. Considered 'late-game' by station standards.
3. Advanced pinpointer's utility is absolutely overpowering in certain situations given the ability to track down individual people just by nature of finding their blood/DNA sample.

If compensating ERT for this is a concern, why not permanently delete the shutter to the L6 SAW area? We don't see that fun gun anymore.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Scheveningen

[VTCobaltblood]

9 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

Said PR died not just due to community pushback against it, but a myriad of other issues in addition to that.

Considering current events in the lore, I wouldn't say it "died". Merely pushed back and made modular.

[Arrow768]

16 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

1. ERT chem dispenser with a hilariously powerful loadout of pre-made chemicals of any type. Also stocks rezadone, the god-tier chem, second best to adminordrazine.

The ERT and the TCFL have access to the same chems.

16 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

If compensating ERT for this is a concern, why not permanently delete the shutter to the L6 SAW area? We don't see that fun gun anymore. 

Because the ERT is powerful enough without standard access to the L6 SAW.
If deployed by a somewhat skilled team it has the potential to fuck over any Antag (Group Antag or not)

The argument "give ERT more powerful weapons so we can reduce their spawn chance" is flawed.

 

The 50/50 split we have at the moment is fine.
Both teams have their respective advantages and disadvantages.

[Chada1]

I'm very much in favor of vastly reducing the ERT, the ERT is not thematically fun to roleplay as or with, it's a bunch of elite commandos who enter the Station and eliminate the bad guys then leave. The TCFL is fun, it can be any number of characters from any number of backgrounds, it can be pre-established and played characters, it has more substance to add to a round.

Aside from that, the ERT was meant to be rare, their mere ability to reach the Aurora so consistently kinda undermines the whole idea of 'Let's send a lesser, worse equipped militia to rescue the Aurora' concept. The ERT was Always meant to be less common than the TCFL, this is a very important lore detail, and if we want to continue arguing 'Lore should represent mechanics' or 'Mechanics should represent Lore', then either Lore has to change or this spawn chance needs to be adjusted.

I propose a 33% chance for the ERT. The ERT was meant to be more powerful and it was also meant to be more rare. If this isn't done then that's significant ground lost in actually making this change appear and feel compelling.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Chada1

[GreenBoi]

I think that 60-40 would be nice. TCFL has Aurora in their general patrol routes unlike the ERT who are usually patrolling by the Upsilon. By this sheer fact alone, TCFL would be slightly faster just by distance but ERT could still make it with their probably-faster bluespace drivess.

 

Not only does it make sense ICly, but it also helps out OOCly. TCFL is less equiped with some decent equipment in some departments and some pretty barebones stuff in the other department. Their best Trump Card is the Jotun, but that's adminbus-only. With how TCFL are, they have to try to reason with the antags because they don't have infinite ammo because of fucking Integrated E-Guns and with their limited access, they have to actually work with Command instead of giving small status updates and demanding for certain things to happen. They're basically  just a fairer opponent, and let's not forget the most important thing:

 

YOU CAN CALL FOR ERT MORE THAN ONCE

[PoZe]

PR was discontinued in favor of Arrow's PR.