Staff Complaint - Senpai Jackboot

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

47 minutes ago, VTCobaltblood said:

despite kick-worthy situations occurring again.

Im suprised youre using this against me when you were vocally against the policy. Why are you upset it supposedly ended?

You wanted immediate escalation to a dismissal which isnt policy then or now.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[VTCobaltblood]

1 minute ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

. You were extremely eager to open a deputy slot.

You allowed me to do so and approved it personally despite knowing that it breaks a rule.

1 minute ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

You were told about a removal of a deputy.

You told me it's "preference". There was precedent for three deputies, so I considered it a soft preference that will not cause me to lose a deputy. There was no indication that the precedent is invalid because the rule is new.

2 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

You chose to tell me you didnt want to discuss it further until later.

We discussed it. You asked me about the activity of my deputies a day before your decision. I replied saying that it's satisfactory. Despite that, you went on to remove my deputy even though Skull and Alberyk both say you did not have to.

We've been over this several times already in this thread and I always have the same responses. I have told you I want a headmin/headdev to sort this out - that's why it's a staff complaint. Stop bringing this up because my responses will be the same, and yours will be too.

5 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

I dont make new policy to respond to behavior and when i do make new policy with mofo its kneejerk and unnecessary. 

I'm not saying policy is unnecessary. I'm saying that policy feels like kneejerk because it's created to respond to a specific case and is then never brought again.

7 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Kicking from the chat is still policy

It wasn't ever enforced since the initial two cases. There were some cases which would logically invoke it, like the recent Kyres-Bygone thing that quickly turned the chat very aggressive. Despite me being one of the main offenders in that discussion, I wasn't kicked or even given a talking-to. I presume you had a talk with Bygone because of a suddenly and abruptly posted apology later, while you could have, and according to your policy, should have kicked him. Paradox did milder things than what happened that night and got kicked. 

13 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Who do you want to put in charge after firing myself and Mofo that will address all your issues, never overrule you, overrule others when you deem it necessary, and overrule you? 

Who should skull replace me with, do you think?

That's all up to Skull to decide. 

[VTCobaltblood]

1 minute ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Why are you upset it supposedly ended?

I am not upset. It is an example of your policies going unenforced. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

1 hour ago, VTCobaltblood said:

Despite that, you went on to remove my deputy even though Skull and Alberyk both say you did not have to.

Incorrect. I asked skull if there was a metric to make an exception. He said there was not. He was annoyed a third deputy was hired and i asked if we could keep all three. He did not outline an alternative and there was no alternative. Weve never, for example, moved someone to a new team to stay under a cap. You can go from a maintainer to a dev (sleepy) but you cant really go lower from a deputy. So it was a remove to remain unless i made up a whole new policy on the fly.

You made a lot of assumptions about my intent and want me to clearly read your own assumptions.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The issues of several complaint makers has been addressed.

I am finishing a tajara collab and will not work with or on tajara unless asked.

We have a policy of punishment and escalation and schedule rehabilitation already in use on several devs.

I am going to dedicate my time to vaurca and skrell as well as unathi.

I will overrule devs where indicated in this chat, as i already do, because sometimes you have to pick between two options. Ie i had to overrule the human devs on frost or overrule the people who didnt want frost.

Communication will be more clear. You will not be allowed to ever open an app for more than 2 deputies nor will anyone else.

Is there anything anyone wants to see?

As for it being up to skull... demanding to remove someone in charge after 3 years of their design philosophy being the philosophy of the department should have more thought than a passing of the buck. Ive always considered who'd replace me when i retire. Thats why there is a deputy loremaster, but you want him gone too.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[MoondancerPony]

1 hour ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Incorrect. I asked skull if there was a metric to make an exception. He said there was not. He was annoyed a third deputy was hired and i asked if we could keep all three. He did not outline an alternative and there was no alternative. Weve never, for example, moved someone to a new team to stay under a cap. You can go from a maintainer to a dev (sleepy) but you cant really go lower from a deputy. So it was a remove to remain unless i made up a whole new policy on the fly.

You made a lot of assumptions about my intent and want me to clearly read your own assumptions.

Quote

For the sake of clarity and future reference. You could have indeed transitioned Nursie to another task, something which was actually even discussed once during the initial discussion I think? How the mandate of 2 deputies per team was achieved was largely irrelevant, though suppose I did not explicitly mention that you had alternatives. Mostly because my patience on the issue was done.

Skull said that in this very thread, actually! He very specifically mentioned that it was discussed. An alternative was VERY CLEARLY outlined and it was even brought up later in this thread, then denied by you. You accused VT of lying about such, or made assumptions that they did, and then accused VT of making assumptions about YOU.

On 10/05/2019 at 13:57, Senpai Jackboot said:

 

On 10/05/2019 at 00:29, SleepyWolf said:

I also agree JB puts a lot of his own politics into things

 

Can you describe how?

I can, yes. The obvious parallels between Frost and Thorn and certain current political figures, ATLAS being an alt-right parallel (which isn't entirely Jackboot's fault as that originated with Tytos, but also allowing the Biesel division of ATLAS to be called the Biesel Storm Division was a really bad move as it already had neo-nazi associations; it is Jackboot's job as loremaster to override these decisions when necessary, such as when a pseudo-fascist party is essentially named after the Nazi SA, or Sturmabteilung, which literally means Storm Division/Storm Department/Storm Detachment.)

The planned union arc seemed incredibly hamfisted, as did the depression arc, and I had to go ham running damage control and proposing new mechanics to offset the crippling blow it would have dealt to the station. There's the Tajara lore article that is a clear reference to Stalin's twenty minute clap, as well, and numerous other clear Soviet Union parallels. Not just facetious references, but full-blown blatant parallels. The Zhan, commonly farmers and peasants, are being oppressed by a communist government; this is a clear parallel of the Red Terror's persecution of supposed kulaks, and I'm frankly surprised Jackboot didn't call the persecution of the Zhan-Khazan the Black Terror or something like that.

Also, the handling of the end of the murder mystery arc was awful. I loved the arc, as I've said many, many times, and was a major player in it. However, everything that happened with Halstere, the mistrial, the SHOOTING, and then the fact that Halstere didn't receive any consequences was awful. That entire over-the-top attack with Halstere should have been made non-canon, since it was an admin ruling after all and not something Jackboot could have prevented in-round. It destroyed the efforts made by all of the players in the arc, our interactions with other players, the investigations, the in-round mini-events, and so on. While other people have brought this up this one is very personal to me.

This goes for my next complaint, too. The handling of maintainer apps, specifically Cake's. Cake was already rather inactive, and had pre-existing lore team obligations. Rather than scrutinizing Cake's application more HEAVILY, as would be reasonable and expected, the application was marked redundant and Jackboot said "You're already a loredev, you goof. You don't need to apply to work on another department, just ask and be persuasive!" This treatment has never, to my knowledge, been extended to anyone else. This directly supports the complaints of favoritism brought up by others; I've seen no one else besides Jackboot and Mofo hold multiple lore team positions at once, and even then those are already special cases involving upper management roles which can be done mostly without interfering with their primary obligations.

Additionally, there is the matter of encouraging people to "retire". This happened not only with me, in which Jackboot repeatedly alluded to my resignation (which I had no plans to do at the time) in PMs. I was actually becoming more active and was even writing lore for drones (anyone from synth lore who reads this, please do not add this lore now without my express permission, by the way) that I was going to add when Jackboot PM'd me and once again tried to encourage me to resign. Regrettably, I decided to finally "take the hint" and resign. According to at least one other loredev, this was also attempted on them, and others were threatened. There's also the euphemistic approach to this, like saying that Nursie was "devoting her time fully to mod," which is really screwed up. There's also the announcement of my "deciding to retire" when I was in fact pressured into it, which was only amended after very frankly saying that it was fucked up to do something like that. This doesn't appear to be an isolated incident according to several people.

In addition to the favoritism of players, there's also the micromanaging of certain species like Tajara, which has already been addressed by others. However, to show the other side of this, he staunchly refused to join the synth lore chat; while my phrasing of the request was tongue-in-cheek as part of a joke/dare it was very much a serious request, and it seems odd that he'd refuse to join a chat specifically dedicated to planning and organizing synth lore.

Additionally, his behavior to lots of would-be contributors is rather hostile, as mentioned by many including former contributors. In fact, it was the entire reason several people, for example Coalf, even joined the lore team to begin with; their suggestions were flippantly discarded with "well you should apply if you feel so strongly", when supposedly we're open to player contributions and being a member of the lore team isn't necessary to write and submit lore. The lore canonization applications forum has been dreadfully inactive and many accepted or quasi-accepted applications have been outright left to rot.

This wide collection of systematic issues displays not just an issue with how lore has been handled, but with Jackboot's character in a position of power, period. I would suggest a vote of no-confidence by the lore staff only to determine if he is fit to remain as loremaster.

This vote of no-confidence would preferably be held in a system that can't be gamed. That rules out Discord emoji votes (as mods can remove reactions to a post), strawpolls (easy to game with proxies/tor), and in-game votes (alt accounts). I also have reservations about a forum vote as people with database/server access could fudge it, but I have a reasonable enough level of trust in Arrow/Skull to not do that.

In the event the vote succeeds, Jackboot would be dismissed from loremaster only. He would remain a unathi maintainer as I don't believe I've seen any complaints regarding his work for unathi, and as several of the people in this complaint have even said, he is a capable writer... for Unathi. I'm a huge fan of his work for them, even. But for things like human lore or overarching plots, I have doubts about his capabilities, which hopefully this vote would resolve; if a majority of lore team members have faith in his capabilities as a manager, he remains, but if they don't, he's replaced.

His replacement would probably be Mofo, though as he is already the CCIA leader the administrators may have an issue with that. He could either choose to remain the CCIA leader or abdicate his position and become the loremaster. In the event Mofo chooses not to become the new loremaster I presume Skull or Alberyk or someone like that would pick a suitable replacement. In fact, it may be easier to simply do that from the start to avoid any issues cropping up with people having complaints about Mofo's management as well.

 

As an aside, I'd also like to suggest making the lore canonization forum like the developer suggestions forum. A loredev/loredevs or deputies can vote to reject it or they can take it on as a project and make it canon, without needing loremaster oversight for each and every thing. Anyone who takes one on as a project would be expected to integrate it into the universe as a whole and not leave it as an isolated bubble.

While I'm on a roll, making lore staff have some sort of light permissions on the server, like build mode or VV or something, would be really useful to reduce the workload of running events. I'm sure Alb would be onboard with doing this or giving select lore staff members an event manager role, since Alberyk is effectively the only admin willing to run canon events anymore.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Theres a lot to unpack with your post. 

Skull did not explicitly outline alternative options for keeping three deputies. I asked if there was a metric by which to keep three deputies. He said no.

This was in the chat with myself, skull, arrow, alb, and garn.

If nursie was a maintainer she would be able to move down to deputy like sleepywolf did but you can't step down from a deputy. Skull was highly annoyed the slots were opened in the first plaxe. This I understand. As i have said multiple times

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

Additionally, there is the matter of encouraging people to "retire".

If its not for behavioral issues I didn't like saying they're dismissed because of the negative connotations. Being talked into a retirement was trying to avoid people thinking there was bad behavior. I get awkward about it because its my least favorite thing to do, and I was over eager to find alternatives and it made me a flighty push over. It wasnt appreciated so no ones going to be asked to retire anymore. You're dismissed if you don't retire of your own volition. Its been a mistake to put so much worry into the feelings of people getting dismissed. Dont worry about that.

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

The obvious parallels between Frost and Thorn and certain current political figures

Are you accusing me of being alt right?? wtf.

Frost and Thorne are populists. Draw whatever parallels you want. Thats the great thing about art. I loosely draw from huey long and caesar, honestly, but the authors intent is usually irrelevant when its being interpreted.

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

You're already a loredev, you goof. You don't need to apply to work on another department, just ask and be persuasive!" This treatment has never, to my knowledge, been extended to anyone else.

Because it was a mistake. You need to apply now.

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

The planned union arc seemed incredibly hamfisted, as did the depression arc, and I had to go ham running damage control

Thats why they were cancelled. Irrelevant. Don't drag me for bad ideas that aren't implemented.

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

There's the Tajara lore article that is a clear reference to Stalin's twenty minute clap,

Did you see the hidden link?  the article was ham intentionally to avoid the censors.

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

Zhan, commonly farmers and peasants, are being oppressed by a communist government

Thats been a thing since 2016... im responsible for them calming them down... if youre still unhappy talk to mofo and make a complaint on them instead. Im not touching tajara after I conclude the on-going projects I started with them.

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

he staunchly refused to join the synth lore chat;

I don't want to. I'm in chats where the devs are avoiding spoiling major plot arcs. Right now thats tajara. It used to be others. I leave chats to clear clutter. Talk to me in the lore chat or dms. Ill join if you have big secrets. Otherwise its redundant. Ive given an entire year to developing lore and events revolving around synths. Now their maintainer is extrodinarily active and capable and experimental. Dont accuse me of neglecting them.

Also it's super funny to me that "he staunchly refused" is being used as if I aggressively and firmly rejected your offer, when it was me politely declining.

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

This vote of no-confidence would preferably be held in a system

Absolutely never. Popularity contests will be the death of this team. My bosses are Skull132 and Arrow.  This hierarchy will remain.

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

and then the fact that Halstere didn't receive any consequences

He's in prison for life. Or dead. I dont remember. The character is permanently retired. Do you mean the player?

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

As an aside, I'd also like to suggest making the lore canonization forum like the developer suggestions forum. A loredev/loredevs or deputies can vote to reject it or they can take it on as a project and make it canon, without needing loremaster oversight for each and every thing.

Rejected. All you need to do is ping me. The process is already slow unless I hold your hand and I'm not interested in doing that. Trying to arrange votes would kill the already slow process.

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

The lore canonization applications forum has been dreadfully inactive and many accepted or quasi-accepted applications have been outright left to rot.

I ask and ask and ask. Im not doing it all myself. I might just give wiki devs the power to upload accepted apps. Or give someone unilateral power...

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

His replacement would probably be Mofo, though as he is already the CCIA leader the administrators may have an issue with that.

I really appreciate your thought put into it. You have a game plan.

5 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

Biesel Storm Division

Speak to Zundy. Or join the counter movement that burned down the ATLAS headquarters in mendell city.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Mofo1995]

15 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

His replacement would probably be Mofo, though as he is already the CCIA leader the administrators may have an issue with that. He could either choose to remain the CCIA leader or abdicate his position and become the loremaster. In the event Mofo chooses not to become the new loremaster I presume Skull or Alberyk or someone like that would pick a suitable replacement. In fact, it may be easier to simply do that from the start to avoid any issues cropping up with people having complaints about Mofo's management as well.

I just wanna be clear, from the moment I ascended to CCIABS, my game plan has been to select from among the agents someone who would replace me to step back down to agent so that I wouldn't be running one team and deputy running another team. I had an agent in mind, and told the other heads the agent I wanted as well, when this first started and by now that agent has been crystallized as who I will choose to be the next CCIABS. I have held onto head CCIA for as long as I have because I felt it was changing hands too often with Elliot's short tenure, and I wanted to return some stability to the bureau. I think one look at the IR forum shows, however, that I'm not as capable as my predecessors Whiterabit and Synnono, and that the task of CCIA and Lore at the same time is a bit too much for me to handle, as I often feel I'm being constantly bombarded with both lore concerns and bureau concerns at the same time and its difficult to balance.  

 

But also I am looking for some clarity, namely, am I also a subject of this complaint? Glancing through the thread, my name is brought up by Jackboot in majority of times it has appeared. Many big level decisions were run through me before implementation, such as the kicking people from lore writers temporarily when arguments get too fierce, implementing slow mode in lore writers, and hiring abo as deputy were approved by me. There are more but those three are the ones I remember. The kicking thing came at at time when lore writers felt like a war zone. I haven't done anything in the way of kicking others or enforcing it because I felt it was out of my line as just the deputy. I had high hopes for slowmode killing spaghetti posting, or at least, posts where people make a series of posts that are either one word or sentence at a time instead of one coherent post. And as I stated earlier in the thread, I had not remembered that there were already two skrell deputies, and was ecstatic about bringing abo on board. Of course, not all his decisions were done with my approval, such as removing Nursie. The new probation system is sort of a hybrid where he implemented it while I was asleep, and afterwards I woke up and told him I thought it was a good idea. There were also other decisions he did not proceed with because I advised against them though. I can't think of any time at the top of my head where he proceeded with something as loremaster that I told him not to during my tenure as deputy.

[Brutishcrab51]

17 hours ago, MoondancerPony said:

Also, the handling of the end of the murder mystery arc was awful. I loved the arc, as I've said many, many times, and was a major player in it. However, everything that happened with Halstere, the mistrial, the SHOOTING, and then the fact that Halstere didn't receive any consequences was awful. That entire over-the-top attack with Halstere should have been made non-canon, since it was an admin ruling after all and not something Jackboot could have prevented in-round. It destroyed the efforts made by all of the players in the arc, our interactions with other players, the investigations, the in-round mini-events, and so on. While other people have brought this up this one is very personal to me.

hey, my character was permanently imprisoned for life after that and i have since then stopped playing for the most part. jackboot had nothing to do with this decision, and it's not appropriate for the complaint, he did the best he could given the circumstances forced upon him. had to play the cards given as a lore master.

[Skull132]

So, there is a relatively long list of items to unpack here. And I may not get around to all of them in this first post. But we shall try to get the ball rolling at least.

First and foremost, regarding the recruitment of a new deputy. We are of two minds on this. VT, you were told that an existent deputy coming under review would be a possibility and said, "We can discuss that later". Well, it was discussed, and a decision made. Claiming ignorance or holding faith in a previous instance, effectively discarding this note as, "unlikely to happen", was a decision you made and it bit you. You could have at least asked and drilled deeper about it, instead of binning it immediately in your mind. However, this is not to say that the situation could not have been handled better by Jackboot either. He should have been more firm (1) in handling the issue, by either slowing you down and making sure you are clear on the matter, or by just resolving the issue immediately, before permitting you to open up the apps. Arguably the latter would most likely have been the optimal solution. As an immediate fix, the hard limits on deputies have been codified, and we are considering applying heavier oversight to the recruitment of the lore team down the line.

Moving on, regarding oversight and general management. This is a bit of a harder nut to evaluate, and I will be gathering a bit more feedback on the subject from other lore devs. In general, though, there does seem to be consensus that Jackboot focuses on specific elements of lore while neglecting others. I have also heard mentions of him having bias towards the creative decisions of specific individuals over others, but, as noted, this is due for a bit more discussion, to be carried out this week. One general solution that has been proposed for this has been the separation of the role of lore master from that of a species maintainer. Specifically, to ensure that the lore master is able to focus solely on actually managing lore, instead of actively writing it as well. Granted, this does have issues, specifically regarding motivation (someone who wants to be purely a manager is harder to find than someone who's willing to do managing as a side job). But we shall see.

Related to management are also the two following notices. Firstly, regarding the complaints raised by Neinbox. Much like Abo has said, we find these bordering on excessively nit picky, to use a set of phrasing. If the established modus operandi for the lore team has been the review of works in progress via Google Docs, then you are obligated to enable this as a member of this team. If you do not wish to do so, then understand that failure to partake in the modus operandi of the team is grounds for removal. An analogy would be: the developers use Github to submit code for review. It is possible to use other means, like email, to submit diffs, but I assure you, your contributions will not be reviewed nor admitted if you did not go through the established channels. Overall, I feel like Jackboot should have been more active in resolving this, at least finding you an active replacement (2) while you were on leave for a good few months. He gave you a lot of space, and there has been regular pressure from myself, since January, to get Diona development actually active again. (And no, promises of hidden projects are not a good thing to try and fly with me.)

The second note is related to what Moon said:

On 14/05/2019 at 03:36, MoondancerPony said:

Additionally, there is the matter of encouraging people to "retire". This happened not only with me, in which Jackboot repeatedly alluded to my resignation (which I had no plans to do at the time) in PMs. I was actually becoming more active and was even writing lore for drones (anyone from synth lore who reads this, please do not add this lore now without my express permission, by the way) that I was going to add when Jackboot PM'd me and once again tried to encourage me to resign. Regrettably, I decided to finally "take the hint" and resign. According to at least one other loredev, this was also attempted on them, and others were threatened. There's also the euphemistic approach to this, like saying that Nursie was "devoting her time fully to mod," which is really screwed up. There's also the announcement of my "deciding to retire" when I was in fact pressured into it, which was only amended after very frankly saying that it was fucked up to do something like that. This doesn't appear to be an isolated incident according to several people.

While I disagree with the interpretation of these as "threats", I do see a bit of a trend. Jackboot is lenient (3). Very lenient. In my opinion, had he just put you up to the fact that your activity needs to improve, then that conversation would have perhaps carried less animosity with it. And perhaps this would have applied to others as well. One thing to take into consideration, due to the fact that most staff slots are limited, is that inactive people should be getting actively rotated out. And this does include basically letting people know that their activity is at an unacceptable level and it is time to go. This applies more so where the billet count is more limited (e.g. species maintainer positions).

The numbers indicate a minimum amount of places I saw wherein Jackboot could have and should have acted in a manner more firm and to the point. This would be my bet at one of the core underlying issues here. I am curious to know what @Senpai Jackboot himself thinks of this interpretation.

Addendum: "We" refers to all of the Head Admins and Head Devs, as per our internal discussions. "I" refers to my personal views and interpretations.

[VTCobaltblood]

46 minutes ago, Skull132 said:

One general solution that has been proposed for this has been the separation of the role of lore master from that of a species maintainer.

This is not a fix. The issue here is that Jackboot writes too much of human lore, and he is not a human lore maintainer. Nobody is making the argument that Jackboot treats Unathi unfairly well.

48 minutes ago, Skull132 said:

As an immediate fix, the hard limits on deputies have been codified, and we are considering applying heavier oversight to the recruitment of the lore team down the line.

This is not a fix for Jackboot's issues with communication. 

[Neinbox]

58 minutes ago, Skull132 said:

If the established modus operandi for the lore team has been the review of works in progress via Google Docs, then you are obligated to enable this as a member of this team.

Honestly, I was never in the slightest aware that this was a standard/rule. But when I saw the mess that Syntax's document had become with the comments/suggestions and highlights, I felt that it was best to go about converstationson the matter in a platform that was more geared for such instead of something that wasn't really meant to have back-and-forth discussions on it in the first place. And it really has made the task of navigating the page and the questions less daunting, as they are separated. It wasn't me trying to be intentionally cruel or difficult; it was literally me attempting to find the best way to handle the two things for myself as it was all meant as more of a personal reference and not an actually published/released item whatsoever.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

3 hours ago, Skull132 said:

However, this is not to say that the situation could not have been handled better by Jackboot either. He should have been more firm (1) in handling the issue, by either slowing you down and making sure you are clear on the matter, or by just resolving the issue immediately, before permitting you to open up the apps.

I agree. The solution as I have stated will be a more firm resolution when dealing with these situations.

3 hours ago, Skull132 said:

As an immediate fix, the hard limits on deputies have been codified, and we are considering applying heavier oversight to the recruitment of the lore team down the line.

We are long from the days where I would happily recruit anyone, even problematic developers, if they had a pep in their step and a clear vision to achieve. I trust and rely on the head administrators + you and arrow more and more in regards to maintainers and developers, and so this is fine by me. I don't regret anyone I've ever brought on because I know that despite any behavioral issues all of them did have a genuine desire to contribute meaningfully. But I don't think it's fair to continue to be the rebel that frays everyone's patience with problematic developers.

3 hours ago, Skull132 said:

In general, though, there does seem to be consensus that Jackboot focuses on specific elements of lore while neglecting others.

I have contributed major portions of every playable species and various factions in all elements of our lore. This is sans the dionaea - though I have involved them here and there - as I have a personal weakness in writing such an alien race who, through several devs, have been indifferent bystanders in galactic affairs.

I don't feel like citing my whole history to prove my point so I will try to summarize it all in self-reflection that I go through phases of what element of the team/lore I focus on. Months of skrell, months of synths, months of humans, months of Unathi, months of Tajara - on top of the experimental personal projects I spearhead such as antag contests, the serial killer business, etc.

However, months of focus on the popular species was an issue brought up by Syntax and VT. This is something I understand completely. I have already informed Alberyk and Mofo that once we conclude a current arc together (very soon) I'll be veering away from them and devoting my attention to my Vaurca, Skrell, and Diona teams. Mofo and Alberyk are consistently active with a popular species, so lighter oversight should be completely fine.

3 hours ago, Skull132 said:

.I have also heard mentions of him having bias towards the creative decisions of specific individuals over others, but, as noted, this is due for a bit more discussion, to be carried out this week. 

I am usually (especially lately) set in the middle of two (or more) people who absolutely want the other party dismissed from the team immediately and saw each other as the true antagonist. Because these issues have almost always been handled via compromise no one was particularly happy when no one was dismissed. On top of this, I have always been aware of and sensitive towards the potential for bias and so whenever I feel this situation crop up I always go to Mofo, Garnascus, or you/Arrow.

This ties into my next comment.

3 hours ago, Skull132 said:

While I disagree with the interpretation of these as "threats", I do see a bit of a trend. Jackboot is lenient (3). Very lenient.

Jumping ahead, I acknowledge I am lenient and it is because I know maintainers and devs put a lot of work in and as a voluntary position we are just trying to contribute stuff to make a more fun game for everyone. When a maintainer is dismissed or retired their replacement can completely rewrite the vision that person had. However, brevity and leniency have not been effective management solutions.

This ties into the perception of bias because without the firm rules and guidelines the solutions for problematic behavior have had to be played by ear and this can seem inconsistent.

My new rules regarding probation, activity, etc, should help in this regard as they are applicable to everyone. And with Mofo also involved in any behavior correction stuff, there is continued little risk of me diving into favoritism.

3 hours ago, Skull132 said:

One general solution that has been proposed for this has been the separation of the role of lore master from that of a species maintainer. 

This would really damage what I find engaging and consistently rewarding about my position. I am as much a manager of the macro team as I am a participant within it. Having done this for four years now I can't imagine splitting the two roles. I'm (clearly) invested in the status quo but I really find this would be a lot of damage to the positions with little gain. I don't think my work with Unathi is interfering with my responsibilities as loremaster - it is not that I am laser focusing on them, but that, to my understanding, the 3rd parties are feeling the other 3rd parties are getting all my attention.

3 hours ago, Skull132 said:

One thing to take into consideration, due to the fact that most staff slots are limited, is that inactive people should be getting actively rotated out. And this does include basically letting people know that their activity is at an unacceptable level and it is time to go. This applies more so where the billet count is more limited (e.g. species maintainer positions).

Our new system to approach inactive developers is already helping. It is still in its early stages, but I am hopeful that providing structure will be a great way to bring activity back. And if a developer still struggles, then we have a clear and documented method by which to measure inactivity and see them dismissed.

3 hours ago, Skull132 said:

The numbers indicate a minimum amount of places I saw wherein Jackboot could have and should have acted in a manner more firm and to the point. This would be my bet at one of the core underlying issues here. I am curious to know what @Senpai Jackboot himself thinks of this interpretation.

To summarize, I agree with your assertion that I need to be more firm. Historically I have tried to run the team with a minimalist structure to it. This lack of structure, and hesitation to introduce it, has probably been the biggest weakness in my management within these last few months. Having been identified I am extremely confident that these issues are being addressed to the best of my ability.

3 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

This is not a fix. The issue here is that Jackboot writes too much of human lore, and he is not a human lore maintainer. Nobody is making the argument that Jackboot treats Unathi unfairly well. 

I'm going to repeat what I've said earlier in this post - being (relatively) new, you arrived in the human 'phase' of my personal involvement in development. When Loow was maintainer, there was a long period of time in which I was personally involved in Skrell with the same level of energy. This is after he was brought on the team after I personally rebooted the entire skrell species and history to what Loow then adopted and steered his own way. I also adopted Vaurca and personally invested a considerable amount of my time and passion into giving them the same treatment of a massive rewrite and relaunch when there was a public discussion about removing Vaurca outright.

This in no way trying to invalidate you or anyone who feels overlooked; I am trying to acknowledge how I divvy up my investment of time and energy when I get personally involved on a contributor level and not just overseeing on the management level. Being one person I feel overwhelmed if I try to contribute to several things at once, and so I've tried to move from team to team, pouring contributions into their sphere for awhile before moving on to the next team.

This is probably frustrating and I can see why it is.

As of this moment, once you get back from your vacation, I've made a pledge to you and Syntax to dedicate my time to Vaurca and Skrell and Diona. I'm still going to be involved with the current arc of humanity but I will do my best to outsource it. There's only one major human arc I am personally contributing to and that is the frost and thorne business. All the other developments of humanity are exclusively done by zundy and pegasus, or is the cross-collab arc (PRA vs Sol) that I maniacally pushed both teams to do.

EDIT:
I have to admit it's really awkward to come to VT and casually discuss skrell lore and developments and my suggestions when they are demanding my dismissal and have rejected compromise on otherwise... I'll get over it but please be patient with me if I am a little tentative for a little bit.

3 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

This is not a fix for Jackboot's issues with communication.  

Communication issues seems to be a wider team issue as just this week we had a hiccup in one team forgetting to tell another team about an event involving them. As of this posting I left a notice about this communication issue within the lore writer chat on discord and I am going to take personal attention to making sure cross-team collabs are properly transparent going forward.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[MoondancerPony]

On 20/05/2019 at 17:02, Skull132 said:

While I disagree with the interpretation of these as "threats", I do see a bit of a trend. Jackboot is lenient (3). Very lenient. In my opinion, had he just put you up to the fact that your activity needs to improve, then that conversation would have perhaps carried less animosity with it. And perhaps this would have applied to others as well. One thing to take into consideration, due to the fact that most staff slots are limited, is that inactive people should be getting actively rotated out. And this does include basically letting people know that their activity is at an unacceptable level and it is time to go. This applies more so where the billet count is more limited (e.g. species maintainer positions).

The numbers indicate a minimum amount of places I saw wherein Jackboot could have and should have acted in a manner more firm and to the point. This would be my bet at one of the core underlying issues here. I am curious to know what @Senpai Jackboot himself thinks of this interpretation.

I do actually agree with this. The leniency made it seem more underhanded than it perhaps actually was. If I had been told "You need to write lore by XX/XX/XXXX," I probably would have handled that better than being pestered about retiring/resigning. This seems more like a communication issue than anything, which is still unfortunate for someone in a managerial position to have.

On 20/05/2019 at 19:59, Senpai Jackboot said:

This would really damage what I find engaging and consistently rewarding about my position. I am as much a manager of the macro team as I am a participant within it. Having done this for four years now I can't imagine splitting the two roles. I'm (clearly) invested in the status quo but I really find this would be a lot of damage to the positions with little gain. I don't think my work with Unathi is interfering with my responsibilities as loremaster - it is not that I am laser focusing on them, but that, to my understanding, the 3rd parties are feeling the other 3rd parties are getting all my attention.

I actually think it would be better for you to focus more on Unathi, not less. You're a very talented lore writer, especially when it comes to Unathi, but with other species such as Tajara and especially humans it falls flat. Your writing for Unathi is much better than your writing for ATLAS/the Thorne vs Frost arc, for example.

On 20/05/2019 at 19:59, Senpai Jackboot said:

To summarize, I agree with your assertion that I need to be more firm. Historically I have tried to run the team with a minimalist structure to it. This lack of structure, and hesitation to introduce it, has probably been the biggest weakness in my management within these last few months. Having been identified I am extremely confident that these issues are being addressed to the best of my ability.

The thing a firmer structure needs to provide isn't just firmness, but also transparency. People (at least those in the lore team) should know how the lore team should operate and what is expected of them, which isn't (or at least wasn't) clearly delineated. An unclear delineation (write 'something' and post it in the lore diary 'sometimes') is worse than none at all, to be honest, since I know lots of the lore writers are victims of procrastination; unclear requirements and deadlines just give an excuse to procrastinate.

Honestly, I think a lot of the issues come down to 1) communication issues, and 2) misdirection of attention. Jackboot has promised to resolve both, and I am skeptical but hopeful that there will be improvement. I also support the idea of separating loremaster and species maintainer, as well.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

11 minutes ago, MoondancerPony said:

[W]hen it comes to Unathi, but with other species such as Tajara and especially humans it falls flat. Your writing for Unathi is much better than your writing for ATLAS/the Thorne vs Frost arc, for example.

I disagree.  The collaborations with pegasus and zundy of which theybare coequal parts remain internally consistent. It is a disagreement on a creative and personal level.

Which is not a productive element of this complaint.

This is another element where I make a judgement call and side with human devs.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Faris]

So from what I see, the topic of the deputy limit is essentially being considered a communication mistake. That’s fine as they happen. 

I am however curious on the prospect of returning Nursie. From my perspective, my acceptance into the lore team got another person removed, and I don’t really comfortable about it. Though with that prospect, it adds the issue that it would contradict an implemented rule, which is an issue as people will point at it and ask for special privileges. So removing Nursie caused grief, and returning them might in the future.

 

is there a solution for this? A sort of thing to undo the wrong? 

[Mofo1995]

8 hours ago, Aboshedab said:

So from what I see, the topic of the deputy limit is essentially being considered a communication mistake. That’s fine as they happen. 

I am however curious on the prospect of returning Nursie. From my perspective, my acceptance into the lore team got another person removed, and I don’t really comfortable about it. Though with that prospect, it adds the issue that it would contradict an implemented rule, which is an issue as people will point at it and ask for special privileges. So removing Nursie caused grief, and returning them might in the future.

 

is there a solution for this? A sort of thing to undo the wrong? 

Earlier in the thread Skull said Nursie could have been transitioned to another task. I think the filer of the complaint and possibly other people still have outstanding complaints with Jackboot they might not feel would be resolved by it, but surely we could at least agree on bringing Nursie back if she was interested? At least considering the extraordinary circumstances involved in her removal. I believe going this avenue is going to be the best way to at least right this wrong.

[Faris]

On 23/05/2019 at 06:49, Aboshedab said:

So from what I see, the topic of the deputy limit is essentially being considered a communication mistake. That’s fine as they happen. 

I am however curious on the prospect of returning Nursie. From my perspective, my acceptance into the lore team got another person removed, and I don’t really comfortable about it. Though with that prospect, it adds the issue that it would contradict an implemented rule, which is an issue as people will point at it and ask for special privileges. So removing Nursie caused grief, and returning them might in the future.

 

is there a solution for this? A sort of thing to undo the wrong? 

@Skull132 

@Arrow768

@Alberyk

@Garnascus

[Skull132]

On 23/05/2019 at 14:43, Mofo1995 said:

Earlier in the thread Skull said Nursie could have been transitioned to another task. I think the filer of the complaint and possibly other people still have outstanding complaints with Jackboot they might not feel would be resolved by it, but surely we could at least agree on bringing Nursie back if she was interested? At least considering the extraordinary circumstances involved in her removal. I believe going this avenue is going to be the best way to at least right this wrong.

That's up to you, Jackboot, and Nursie to hash out. Our only requirement is that we not get 3 Skrell deputies.

Regarding the more general complaint. We had a meeting between myself, Arrow, Alberyk, Jackboot, and Mofo.

Regarding the points of general conduct and rules. It was discussed to implement a set of Lore Writer guidelines. The purpose of this would be to codify the general SOP (how development is done, who to talk to), some rules (staff limits, responsibilities) and so forth. So that the expectations and requirements for both the writer and the leader would be clear. @Senpai Jackboot can expand on the idea in a bit more depth here. And I would also like for the input of the writers to be considered when he's finished his draft.

Regarding the points of management. What myself, Alberyk, and Arrow presented was that the lore devs attempting to communicate between and track multiple projects in one channel is a mess ready to rot. Or well, a mess already rotting. Projects are either placed into a google doc that's nominally passed in lore chat every now and then, or whole new discords are created for projects, none of which are really tracked anywhere. It is clear to say that this is not exactly sustainable nor very easy to keep track of. The general recommendation was for the Lore Team to take up the use of the forums or Kanboard, for the purposes of tracking projects and their progress. This is sort of like how developers have Github: one centralized place, where all active and relevant projects are pinned, and their status can be tracked easily enough. We also suggest the creation of project specific channels. All of this would help concentrate and slow down project specific discussion, while keeping it in a concise place and thus available to the leadership for feedback.

It would also assist project managers in having a go-to place to centralize information at. Of course it would also involve work and effort from all of you, to find a decent system that works out. But in our opinion, it would make lore development a more concise. It should also help in things actually materializing, instead of a google doc being worked on for a month or two, and then fizzing out.

[Faris]

If nothing new, can we just close this? It’s serving no purpose being open right now.

[Arrow768]

The guidelines are currently being written
A project management system has been setup for the Loremaster and the Deputy.
Additional channels in the discord have been setup, to allow Lore to better coordinate with each other.

The complaint will be locked and archived in 24h