Contraband Changes

[Resilynn]

Suggestion: Adding a sentence to the contraband guide (found here: https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Guide_to_Contraband, will be linked to the regulations page shortly).  This sentence will read, “small defense tools that do not easily incapacitate crew members such as small knives (steel, pocket) and flashes are not considered contraband, however, they may be confiscated by security if they are abused. Weapons that do incapacitate crew, I.e., stub batons, condensed capcasin pepperspray, are still considered contraband.”

Why might I support this? 

This change would allow your characters to carry a pocket knife, flash, or similar object of personal defense/ utility nature on their person without facing contraband charges. As it stands, these objects are considered contraband and result in a 15 minute brig sentence- as a medium level infraction.  However, it seems perfectly reasonable that small defense tools would be allowed on a station that has seen repeated hostile invading forces- the lii’dra, raiders.  Similar tools are generally permitted in modern day workplaces.

Mechanically, steel knives do less damage than fists, and flashes no longer paralyze, so their inclusion would be unlikely to cause more harm to antags and security in game.  

 

Why might I be opposed to this?

The accessibility of these tools may lead to an increase in their abuse- while knives, for example, do less damage than punching, their use may force antags to escalate conflict, as ordinary crew members will be better armed than they currently are.  While this is not problematic to more human antags due to the low damage/nonlethal nature of these tools, flashes in particular will be considerably more problematic to vaurca antags and malf/ traitor borgs.

 

Counter argument because obviously I am biased and you are all welcome to chip into the argument:

Vaurca and borgs are already mechanically advantaged in these situations (powerful attacks from vaurca and all access from borgs).  The abuse of these tools to valid hunt will, as always, be against the rules.  Flashes, though a problem for these species, will not be available in the loadout and will retain their current spawn rate.

 

Odds and ends:

Your feedback is appreciated-however, ultimately I hope to make this decision using the poll, so make sure you vote.

Paradoxspace is working on civilian pepperspray that just slows your attacker and does not give them pain crit to possibly add to the loadout if this goes through- tactical knives will also hopefully be redesigned as pocket knives because they really do not do much damage.  These are all tentative changes, though, and your vote either way does not ensure their implementation, merely the change to regulation.

Buttetfly knives will obviously still be contraband due to the damage they do, as will cleavers for nonchefs, hatchets for nongardeners, etc.

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Resilynn
I have a degree in English somehow even though I cannot spell.

[ben10083]

Not sure about this tbh, for the following reasons:

1. Allowing such personnel defence weapons will encourage many to have such tools "just in case", which will make it more difficult for antags (spray and run away/call sec) (flash and run away/call sec) etc.

2. Knifes are so weak that no one will use it in a actual combat scenario if they find themselves in one (why use a weak knife when a fist is stronger?)

3. Such hostile encounters said are considered rare in canon, as such allowing crew to have limited weapons has not much of a reason behind it

4. Could have the door open to further contraband reg rollbacks, which is a bad direction to head in.

Overall I feel that this change has less pros (rp) than cons (see above). -1

[Rushodan]

I really don't like the idea of anyone really carrying around weaponry as a whole. It's your workplace... bringing knives and shit in should be frowned upon, and something to keep to your locker.

Editing the contraband charge to better reflect what illegal goods represent how much to fine/brig for is okay. Making it fair game to carry around pocket knives and other weaponry is not

[Arrow768]

Well, I am not a huge fan of those changes, for similar reasons as stated by Ben:

• It will make it easier to peeps that get cornered by antags to put up a fight, which will escalate the situation and again make it much more difficult for them to actually do their objectives.
• Even if a knife does less damage, it has the potential to cause bleeding, which will require medical supplies to be carried.
• It will validate people that "prepare" for antags.
• Hostile encounters are rare in our canon lore and even if we would permit the use of self defence items, such items would not help against a hostile invasion.

I also would not support reverting the contraband list to a fixed list of items that is not permitted.
We had that a while ago, and it didn't work out, because there are always item that are overseen/recently added and then you have the clear case where something is contraband, but you cant charge for it because its not on "the list".

[Doxxmedearly]

I have to agree with Arrow and Ben on this, for the reasons stated.

[AmoryBlaine]

I am fine with utility knives, I am fine with people having pepperspray. A fair few of you are forgetting that the majority of antags are off-station wearing voidsuits and gasmasks, or on station meaning they can have the same stuff as everyone else.

Though, yes, you can effectively fuck a ling with pepperspray alone. So this should be added with changes to certain antags to help balance out the change. I'd also like to make it clear that Security, and that should go for the rest of the station- don't use flashes, because they're useless and literally only blind you slightly, meaning any antag not willing to get fucked over, will not RP out "AH MY EYES" and just keep grabbing at where you just were. They only really serve to deal with machines. So I don't think anyone needs a flash. Pepperspray and utility knives is fine. Though, I'd maybe even want to limit those to people who take time to actually write up records to have the items.

 

[KingOfThePing]

I have a split opinion here. On the one hand I agree that most antags won't give too much damns about it, since, as Amory already said, they mostly wear helmets/suits, etc., I also agree with his opinion on flashes. The thought to give people with actual records more leeway is also a good thought.

 

On the other hand it will maybe cause great debate, ICly, on what is considered a small, nonlethal defense tool and it might give people more reason to be a bit more aggressive. I do not agree that people would prepare for antags or have them "just in case". Many people have pockets knives with them regularly, because they can be handy. I don't see the bleeding knives can cause as a problem, since medical supplies are widely available on the station, and its really no miracle work to get some.

All in all I am in favour of this suggestion.

[Butterrobber202]

really don't like this at all, you shouldn't need a weapon on a secure station with a armed security team. 

 

this will just encourage normal crew fighting antags the second they try to antag.

[The lancer]

Voting for dismissal. You shouldn't be able to carry around defence tools on your secure workplace. And with the recent artery additions blades become even more dangerous.

[Arrow768]

Seconding the vote for dismissal for the reasons stated above.
Moving to Rejected suggestions.