Player Complaint Xanderdox

[Arrow768]

BYOND Key: arrow768
Game ID: b3b-dj9w
Player Byond Key/Character name: xanderdox / Klaus Eliade
Staff involved: None
Reason for complaint: Repeatetly Frontlining as Captain
Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Ahelped but ticket was not taken.
Approximate Date/Time: 2019-09-12 00:00 GMT+1

Xander has been repeatetly playing his captain/HoS in a way that is frontlining and putting themselves in needless danger.

In this round they went up against 3 heisters in security with a single security officer in tow (during the height of the engagement).
They got shot with ballistic weapons, moved in close with the telebatton in an attempt to take them out ,did not retreat even when they head the chance and the other officer was severely wounded.
They had multiple chances to retreat during the whole encounter yet they took none of them.
Instead they took on multiple heisters armed only with their telebatton and disarm spam.
They even managed to get into maintenance (while bleeding), yet they circled around to engage them again (after briefly patching themselves up with a medkit).
This ultimately resulted in their death.

This behavior should not fly as a captain and xander has been ahelped and banned a number of times for behavior like that, yet he still manages to pull it off.

[Scheveningen]

[00:34:22] scheveningen -> aboshehab: Should also report that the captain had the spare ID on (?) their person at roundstart rather than located in their office. It's essentially powergaming to take the spare ID for any reason on code green, as it denies antagonists the possibility to steal the spare and use its access to drive the round. Considering it's Xander I'm not surprised that he's still doing this soft metagaming shit.
[00:43:42] scheveningen -> aboshehab: Alright. Xander disconnected, though, so I don't figure you can do anything about him concealing the spare on (?) his person at roundstart with (?) no antag reason to have it kept on them. We literally had to chase them down and kill them to get it which was stupid.

You can add powergaming and metagaming to that list too.

[Soultheif96]

I also have to support Schev’s statement here as I was a Vox raider too. The spare was not within the reach of the captain’s office but rather on their person because the other raider reported such after having to kill them.

This is unacceptable even on code green alerts. 

[Garnascus]

I can take this but it will take a few days. Securing the spare ID as a captain is not really powergaming though. 

[Scheveningen]

Securing the spare ID in the safe is one thing. Securing the spare ID on your person with no real reason for doing it is another.

[Nantei]

I do want to clarify that I don't think he really came back for more in the briefing room, but that he was trying to help Summer who was in there. They both then tried to go through the front door, which is where I was with an axe. I am willing to assume that's just a simple mistake rather than them goofily trying to rush me again. As far as I know they should have been able to leave through the back door, and Summer ran away. The Captain got in a fight to the death with me with a telebaton while I was wielding a fire axe. Had he thrown his ID and ran I would have gladly left him alone. I let Summer run without an issue, because Summer wasn't trying to fight me anymore.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Nantei

[AmoryBlaine]

I was watching and yeah it looked like he just wanted to get in to where Summer was wounded.

[Azande]

Hello, how did I not see this and yet there is six replies. Interesting.

The spare ID was not on my person, it was inside of my fax machine so I don't have to unequip my ID to send faxes, and I have done this for every round for the last two years.

I was not intentionally frontlining, I was attempting to meet with Security to help them with access as the intruders had cut a lot of power and communications - I could only communicate in person, and EVA Storage had been blown up by the intruders, thus cutting me off from the spare radios there. Admittedly, printing one at Cargo did not cross my mind.

We moved to security after a report of an intrusion there, I was with the entire security team. We moved together - me at the back - into the brig and upwards. We were then ambushed, and multiple EMP rifle blasts were fired, closing shutters and emptying security weapons and my own. I was in the interrogation room door and on both sides north and south, there were hostiles. The southern one was constantly firing with an antique sniper rifle, and the northern one had chased an officer into the briefing room. I circled around through maintenance after a brief moment of calm - and up into the briefing room with the officer, we then engaged together to the best of our ability, but were basically steamrolled by the merc with the fireaxe. At this point, I had already been shot and our attempt to fight our way out and reconnect with Security in the main brig area had failed, and I was being axed to death while wearing a full captains hardsuit.

I do not know if you know this, but when attempting to walk while in crit, and wearing a hardsuit - you move incredibly slow - I also had multiple broken bones. Running away was not an option, as I would've died of blood loss and internal damage, if not being chased by the healthy merc cutting me with an axe. Thus, my decision was to use my baton and fight to the end, Klaus is not a roll over and die person - and at this point, the mercs had made no attempt to negotiate before disabling power and comms - and had stolen the nuke disk.

@Scheveningen @Soultheif96 @Garnascus @Arrow768

P.S. - Make me aware of a complaint against me or something next time, it's incredibly rude and inconsiderate to have so much discussion with me completely unaware of it.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Azande

[Azande]

On 11/09/2019 at 19:06, Arrow768 said:

In this round they went up against 3 heisters in security with a single security officer in tow (during the height of the engagement).

The entire security department was present, except the detective. Four officers and a Warden. They were able to retreat, Summer and I were not. Thus is how combat sometimes ends up.

[Garnascus]

10 minutes ago, Azande said:

P.S. - Make me aware of a complaint against me or something next time, it's incredibly rude and inconsiderate to have so much discussion with me completely unaware of it.

Im sorry i was playing WoW and i forgot to PM you. Its actually still saved in discord i just didnt send it.....

I will read the rest here in a bit. 

[Garnascus]

Ok so from what i understand the ID issue seems to be resolved here in the post xander made. Keeping it under the fax machine is fine. The rest of this complaint seems to center around how much or how little xander fought with antags while playing a captain. It seems we have the following situations. 

1." Xander has been repeatetly playing his captain/HoS in a way that is frontlining and putting themselves in needless danger."

2. Xander had "multiple chances to retreat"

3. Xander took on heisters "with his baton and disarm spam".

Now based on testimony from others and xander the following is alleged to have happened. 

1. Xander was in fact just trying to save someone. A testimony from one of the raiders is quoted here.

On 11/09/2019 at 19:59, Nantei said:

I do want to clarify that I don't think he really came back for more in the briefing room, but that he was trying to help Summer who was in there. They both then tried to go through the front door, which is where I was with an axe. I am willing to assume that's just a simple mistake rather than them goofily trying to rush me again. As far as I know they should have been able to leave through the back door, and Summer ran away. The Captain got in a fight to the death with me with a telebaton while I was wielding a fire axe

So based on xander's testimony here 

 

On 12/09/2019 at 23:22, Azande said:

The entire security department was present, except the detective. Four officers and a Warden. They were able to retreat, Summer and I were not. Thus is how combat sometimes ends up.

It appears this is all in regards to the situation HERE

On 12/09/2019 at 23:22, Azande said:

In this round they went up against 3 heisters in security with a single security officer in tow (during the height of the engagement).

So if this is the logical procession of what actually happened in round i do not think i see an issue yet. 

2. Xander alledges he was not intentionally frontlining but instead leading security as best he could with radios compromised. 

On 12/09/2019 at 23:19, Azande said:

was not intentionally frontlining, I was attempting to meet with Security to help them with access as the intruders had cut a lot of power and communications - I could only communicate in person, and EVA Storage had been blown up by the intruders, thus cutting me off from the spare radios there. Admittedly, printing one at Cargo did not cross my mind.

We moved to security after a report of an intrusion there, I was with the entire security team. We moved together - me at the back - into the brig and upwards. We were then ambushed, and multiple EMP rifle blasts were fired, closing shutters and emptying security weapons and my own. I was in the interrogation room door and on both sides north and south, there were hostiles. The southern one was constantly firing with an antique sniper rifle, and the northern one had chased an officer into the briefing room. I circled around through maintenance after a brief moment of calm - and up into the briefing room with the officer

So if i assume that everything in this post here is factually then i do not think i see an issue. Its perfectly reasonable for a captain character to lead security from the front. It seems that they where taking pre-cautions to stay with or along side security. Do you recall the character names of some security members so that i can attempt to corroborate this @Azande ? I am not saying i believe you over arrow or arrow over you i just need to verify one way or the other. @AmoryBlaine Mentioned that they where watching the situation with summers and has testified that it looked like xander was trying to save summers. Do you have any information on this other situation i have quoted?

 

[Snoopy11]

Hi I was Summer, the captain joined us after the heisters/mercs got into Tcoms and sabotaged our communication.  We weren't able to communicate until he joined us on the Z-level.  We unanimously agreed that going for Tcoms, especially as the raiders had managed to destroy the turrets was going to be a bad idea, a death trap.

We left, got into engineering, and looked around those areas for a bit until we heard they were in the brig.  As a team, all of security and the captain made their way to Brig, where a conflict then started.  An EMP grenade went off which caused everyone to scatter, as our weapons have been rendered gone, however me and the captain got cut off badly and were in a fight for our lives with nought but batons and pistols.

I was hit badly enough and was able to get safe in the briefing area to try and patch up my wounds, and with no weapons to defend myself, Summer had given up fighting and was all in for survival.  The captain wasn't as fortunate to get in before me and I believe had to fight his way around, before managing to teleport into briefing with me.  A raider then opened the doors, and tossed in a flashbang, which I tossed back out.  This then sparked another fight, where the captain fought the hazard suited raider with a baton, and Summer clutched her wounds nearby before trying to in vein try to help after he calls for help.

I pass out at this point and get transported to medical.

Unfortunately with no head, no coms, explosions and raiding going on the captain in my belief was in a little bit of a tight spot.

[Azande]

@Garnascus

Summer is the only officer name I can remember, honestly. And she has posted directly above this response before I was able to get here, but her post pretty well sums up what occurred.

[AmoryBlaine]

@Garnascus Nothing that isn't said now. But, I did think that they were both trying to leave the brig, and that the blastdoors cut them off- not them going into the brig, since the raiders were down the hall near the sec locker room. I assume the raiders used the isolation cells maint door to cut them off, is why my original understanding was warped. But yeah, was clear to me that the Captain was just trying to get back to Summers.

[Nantei]

14 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

The captain wasn't as fortunate to get in before me and I believe had to fight his way around, before managing to teleport into briefing with me. 

To clarify, do you mean that by the literal definition? I assumed the Captain had winded around through the tunnels. He ran south of me after the fight near interrogation, and I figured scooted into the tunnels. The briefing room blast door sometimes acts as one of the few that doesn't go down. I am fairly sure in this case it was one of them, because I remember using it to get in, or at least wrenching it open with the fire axe. (Which would keep it open unless power shuffled again.)

If he literally teleported in and the blast door was down, I can see why it wasn't attempted to run through the back. Neither of you could have known that we just wanted the ID and had little interest in killing, although I will say that the crew shot first, and I remember the Captain saying something in the security channel that basically made it clear talking wasn't on the table at all, which wasn't a good look from my perspective. Since we had split into two teams, it was pretty hard to organize against us, which made the round very chaotic, but @IAmCrystalClear could better elaborate on how well the escalation was done, since I believe they were one of the Vox in the team that got shot at first. Or at least witnessed it.

[Azande]

Just now, Nantei said:

To clarify, do you mean that by the literal definition? I assumed the Captain had winded around through the tunnels. He ran south of me after the fight near interrogation, and I figured scooted into the tunnels. The briefing room blast door sometimes acts as one of the few that doesn't go down. I am fairly sure in this case it was one of them, because I remember using it to get in, or at least wrenching it open with the fire axe. (Which would keep it open unless power shuffled again.)

If he literally teleported in and the blast door was down, I can see why it wasn't attempted to run through the back. Neither of you could have known that we just wanted the ID and had little interest in killing, although I will say that the crew shot first, and I remember the Captain saying something in the security channel that basically made it clear talking wasn't on the table at all, which wasn't a good look from my perspective. Since we had split into two teams, it was pretty hard to organize against us, which made the round very chaotic, but @IAmCrystalClear could better elaborate on how well the escalation was done, since I believe they were one of the Vox in the team that got shot at first. Or at least witnessed it.

Security was given an order to shoot on site, because the intruders had stolen the nuclear authentication disk, and refused to make meaningful contact except a Vox trying to pounce on me at the bridge.

I teleported in with a hand tele which blinked me into the briefing room as it was set to random. The goal was to reach and meet up with Summer.

[Nantei]

5 minutes ago, Azande said:

Security was given an order to shoot on site, because the intruders had stolen the nuclear authentication disk, and refused to make meaningful contact except a Vox trying to pounce on me at the bridge.

I don't know that I am wild about the use of refused there. I don't remember most anyone reaching out to try and speak to us. The common channel was available for awhile, and since you ordered security to shoot all of us on sight, that meant from our other teams' perspective you basically decided there would be no talking before it had even begun. And we had no real idea why, just that Security decided to kill us on sight now.

In-fact the only member of the crew we had any extended conversation with that I can remember is @Dark1Star's officer, after we had killed and maimed enough people that the station was at our mercy, while both sides essentially licked their wounds.

 

Also thank you for clarifying about the hand tele. That makes a lot more sense.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Nantei

[Azande]

In my view, it's the people entering the station and actively robbing a nuclear bomb key that have to explain themselves or make demands before we provide a response other than something security oriented.

[Nantei]

17 minutes ago, Azande said:

In my view, it's the people entering the station and actively robbing a nuclear bomb key that have to explain themselves or make demands before we provide a response other than something security oriented.

I understand that, but immediately jumping to shoot on sight looks bad to us. I am not saying you did something wrong, just stating my perspective. Personally as a head I usually tell them to detain. The verbage matters a lot. Detain on sight usually at least means an attempt to speak will be made. Shoot on sight means, well, we get what we got there. Security see raider, shoot raider. But that is just my style. I wasn't a fly on the wall to your round, and can't possibly make a judgement on your actions because my only significant interactions with you was us trying to turn each other into jelly. I'm just trying to make sure everything is laid out so the people who will get the full perspective are better informed.

[Garnascus]

This will take a few days for me to check through some logs and stuff. I've had some college stuff come up. 

[Garnascus]

Yeah so, based on the points already addressed i dont think xander did anything wrong.