A.I. Malfunction - Tools for Roleplay, not Murderbone

[Jupiter Storm]

First point of my suggestion is really simple!

- Remove or drastically reduce the power of, APC explosions:

They're not necessary, they add absolutely nothing to a round, it's soul destroying trying to repair them and you can just keep blowing them over and over again.

 

Now onto the roleplaying tools...

- Voice Changer: Perhaps something to add to the A.I.'s suite of tools (because the CentComm Announcements are already excellent) which will allow it to write a better narrative for the gimmick. With this you would be able to add 'characters' to the gimmick, it may even be that the A.I. isn't necessarily impersonating them, but rather they are external hackers speaking to the station which has now been subverted.

- CentComm Holosprites: Offer it the ability to impersonate on a Holopad, (coupled with the voice changer), CCIA Agents, ERT Troopers, Sol Marines etc etc. Maybe some custom things on adminbus demand if necessary if it will add to or support the gimmick, for giving briefings, setting a story, etc.

- Illegal Upgrade (Borgs): It would be nice for Cyborgs to have this available to them, as a precursor to the Overclock - since Cyborgs are one of your prime tools for providing additional threats and activities for the crew which don't involve HURR DURR ME GO BOOM, it is the obvious choice if you want to encourage more 'light-handed' ways to protect yourself and initiate hostilities. In the absence of Security Borgs, the options an A.I. has are very limited - until it's able to reset its Borgs to Combat Modules, which lock them out of doing anything else. As I said, the aim of this change is to promote further roleplaying options, rather than to 'power up Borgs', because it is providing a viable alternative to just blowing things up.

- Combat Drone Wing Deployment: So, before we make the jump to Delta, I'd actually like to entertain the idea of the A.I. being able to snare combat drones through one of the following methods...

EITHER: #1 - Add a beacon to a room of your choosing (followed by a lengthy cooldown). This would work the same way as Hivebots, but at a slower rate, instead spawning Combat Drone mobs with a set limit to how many can appear.

#2 - Put out the Combat Drone Wing announcement, and players can join as them, rather than Maintenance Drones if they so choose. There would be clear rules such as 'you are not to engage unless ordered to by the A.I.', etc.

The reason why I think this would add to a narrative, is because one you would simply have additional roleplay options, additional paths for the gimmick to explore. Perhaps external Syndicate forces assisting you with automated units. Or, the station might have a backup reserve of 'containment drones' to counter a suspected biohazard (which may or may not be real).

 

Finally, an aid to the actual use of these tools...

Believe it or not, Code Delta has its place. And it can really serve to bring the Malf A.I. round to a climax, as long as the escalation is there and it isn't just bumrushed.

The lengthy time it takes is perfectly fine, however, it would be really nice to be able to use some of our other powers while the hack is underway, in order to continue to engage with the crew and present the story to them. One time, I had my hack underway, and I had to PM an Admin to get a CentComm announcement out just to keep the flow of the round going - even though a Code Delta escalation was the natural outcome of the round (which was, at the time, a containment scenario for suspected cortical borers).

 

Just some suggestions, feedback appreciated!

Edited September 12, 2019 by Jupiter Storm

[Sgtmind]

I think it should be for the illegal upgrade that it isn’t combat, it is a specialty mech, more improvised weapons

[Kaed]

Impersonating voices over the radio will be a completely useless ability unless we remove the obnoxious feature that shows you an image of the item sending the radio message.

This is cause synthetics all use a special synth radio device that looks like a circuit board instead of a headset.

It's already hard enough to avoid metagame even when people use headset.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Kaed

[Brutishcrab51]

Use the AI Core Intercomm instead of ; radio command?

[Kaed]

That still telegraphs it's coming from an intercom, which will slightly less difficult to metagame as the AI, is still easy to identify as unusual and non authentic.

[Nikov]

The AI being able to synthesize a voice would be very powerful for a clever AI, and if the problem is that a 'feature' shows what is broadcasting, just replace that icon with an icon of what is receiving the signal.

So if I'm next to an intercom and it says something, I'd see the intercom icon. If my headset says something, I get my headset's icon. If the sec officer next to me gets some sec channel chatter, I see a sec headset.

Then the AI can synthesize a voice, and we get better information from this feature.

[PoZe]

48 minutes ago, Kaed said:

That still telegraphs it's coming from an intercom, which will slightly less difficult to metagame as the AI, is still easy to identify as unusual and non authentic.

What if we just make AI radio icon to be of a headset. So it looks like AI always uses a headset. Then people won't metagame 

[Pratepresidenten]

8 hours ago, Jupiter Storm said:

- Remove or drastically reduce the power of, APC explosions:

They're not necessary, they add absolutely nothing to a round, it's soul destroying trying to repair them and you can just keep blowing them over and over again.

No.

This has great usage if you want to follow through on a threat, or if people go "UNGA BUNGA KILL CAMERAS, DESTROY BORGS, IGNORE TALKING TO AI, RUSH CORE CYKA BLYAT" You simply delete them from existence.

Its meant to be used for distractions or straight up harming/killing people. And as any tool, use it with a purpose and not just because you can.
 

9 hours ago, Jupiter Storm said:

- Illegal Upgrade (Borgs): It would be nice for Cyborgs to have this available to them, as a precursor to the Overclock - since Cyborgs are one of your prime tools for providing additional threats and activities for the crew which don't involve HURR DURR ME GO BOOM, it is the obvious choice if you want to encourage more 'light-handed' ways to protect yourself and initiate hostilities. In the absence of Security Borgs, the options an A.I. has are very limited - until it's able to reset its Borgs to Combat Modules, which lock them out of doing anything else. As I said, the aim of this change is to promote further roleplaying options, rather than to 'power up Borgs', because it is providing a viable alternative to just blowing things up.

You already have this though, you hack your borgs through the robot control console, unlocking their illegal module.

 

The rest of the suggestions looks great tho, especially the voice changer

[Jupiter Storm]

Yeah with regards to the voice changer I'm not too worried about the metagame aspect of it. If people want to break the server rules and don't want to engage with a gimmick then that's an issue mods can deal with, surely.

I admit I didn't consider how 'powerful' it can be for a clever A.I. but really the intent of it was to add an extra tool for story writing that enables you to expand the setting of your round a bit, with more flexible options than just the standard format of Malf A.I. rounds.

Truly I didn't want to focus on the mechanics of things in this thread because half the issue with painful antagonists is the mechanical min-max leading to a standardized format of 'powerful gimmicks' which ultimately all look the same and are painful to deal with. The goal is to give other options for narratives.

7 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

This has great usage if you want to follow through on a threat, or if people go "UNGA BUNGA KILL CAMERAS, DESTROY BORGS, IGNORE TALKING TO AI, RUSH CORE CYKA BLYAT" You simply delete them from existence.

That is a very good point, and I suppose you can actively bwoink people who decide to be shitters with it, same as any antagonist really.

 

15 hours ago, Kaed said:

That still telegraphs it's coming from an intercom, which will slightly less difficult to metagame as the AI, is still easy to identify as unusual and non authentic.

Well on the flip-side, certain antagonists can't use radios at all, such as Raiders and Mercenaries. It would provide a good balancing feature without any modifications to the code, insofar as it acts as a sort of 'deterrent' to A.I. simply mimicking crew, and encourages them to use the voice changer to suggest a hacker or infiltrator instead, or simply to make a 'distorted voice' to creep people out.

 

7 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

You already have this though, you hack your borgs through the robot control console, unlocking their illegal module.

Oh, thank you for this! I didn't actually know very much about the console hacking feature. xD

Edited September 13, 2019 by Jupiter Storm

[Kaed]

2 hours ago, Jupiter Storm said:

Yeah with regards to the voice changer I'm not too worried about the metagame aspect of it. If people want to break the server rules and don't want to engage with a gimmick then that's an issue mods can deal with, surely.

Well I can appreciate that sentiment, the fact that someone can know that the voice talking to them is an AI pretending to be someone else at a glance is sufficient to completely ruin the concept of the subterfuge. The fact that people have to pretend that they don't know it's the AI malfunctioning undermines the core deception in many subtle ways, and forcing the entire server to play dumb is a recipe for disaster.

Take, for instance, the issue with blue screen APCs. Before I made a push for that to not happen every single time an AI takes over an APC, 100% of the time people would broadcast over the radio every time they saw one and immediately telegraph the round type while feigning ignorance of what is going on. You can't expect people to pretend they don't know what's going on when they have an opportunity to win. They just have to find an in character pretext to cast doubt on the proceedings to ruin the whole ploy.

I would much rather prefer we fix the problem then expect mods to clean up after it every time. They're not omniscient, they don't watch the actions of everyone on the server constantly, and there's a lot more that you can do that's subtle metagaming and difficult to report to them.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Kaed

[Jupiter Storm]

What if you expanded the function of the Malf Voice Changer such that it gives you the option of choosing whether you're broadcasting as a robot, a headset or an intercom? That would be pretty cool. If it was to be added and the coding requirements for such weren't ridiculous.

[Nikov]

I feel like nobody heard me here.

The problem is that the broadcasting radio device is displayed.

There is no reason to be showing what radio device is broadcasting, nor justification for it.

Instead, there is justification to display what radio is receiving.

Rather than show the broadcasting radio device, show the receiving radio device, IE the listener's headset.

Now there is no longer a problem with the voice changers at all.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Nikov

[sonicgotnuked]

19 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

No.

This has great usage if you want to follow through on a threat, or if people go "UNGA BUNGA KILL CAMERAS, DESTROY BORGS, IGNORE TALKING TO AI, RUSH CORE CYKA BLYAT" You simply delete them from existence.

Its meant to be used for distractions or straight up harming/killing people. And as any tool, use it with a purpose and not just because you can.

I before made suggestions to reduce this and it was always complained against. To be honest, I'd be perfectly fine moving the equation to an SMES blowing up (like a substation) then actual APCs. I want to see APCs reduced to stop causing hull breeches and traveling up Z levels while still fucking people up who are near them. Especially now ZAS is void on asteroid terf, which causes a lot of venting due to the explosion moving Z levels while causing big holes. I really tried to see the practical use of this and I feel like we should tackle ways to prevent people from mass breaking cameras instead of max-caps being an end all solution. (Even then, I don't see the issue with overloading SMES's and causing these same maxcap explosions for this distraction)

 

I wouldn't be against SMES discharges fucking up, flickering station lights, creating loud noises for a minute or two. Perhaps destroying a few APCs it is connected too. Perhaps if the main SMES or engine was targeted, it would be longer to allow people ample time to fix it, discharge it, or something. It'll add a lot more distraction then some BZZZT in chat before being gibbed in the hall.

 

Perhaps have cameras send shocks that ignore insulated gloves, like a tesla arc, or provides a minor explosion in a discharge if broken. That would push people to hack them instead. 

 

It would also make sense for a giant magnetic power storage device to discharge and create a big ass explosion instead of some little APC that provides only a few KW of power blowing up half the station.

 

On 12/09/2019 at 13:50, Kaed said:

Impersonating voices over the radio will be a completely useless ability unless we remove the obnoxious feature that shows you an image of the item sending the radio message.

Why don't we just have ALL voice changers have the option to change this. If you want to act like an AI, you switch it. If you want to show a little sec headset, you switch it. 

 

On 12/09/2019 at 12:49, Jupiter Storm said:

 it would be really nice to be able to use some of our other powers while the hack is underway, in order to continue to engage with the crew and present the story to them.

Please. I hate being locked out of all abilities and it just promotes stealth malf.

 

On 12/09/2019 at 12:49, Jupiter Storm said:

- Illegal Upgrade (Borgs): It would be nice for Cyborgs to have this available to them, as a precursor to the Overclock - since Cyborgs are one of your prime tools for providing additional threats and activities for the crew which don't involve HURR DURR ME GO BOOM, it is the obvious choice if you want to encourage more 'light-handed' ways to protect yourself and initiate hostilities. In the absence of Security Borgs, the options an A.I. has are very limited - until it's able to reset its Borgs to Combat Modules, which lock them out of doing anything else. As I said, the aim of this change is to promote further roleplaying options, rather than to 'power up Borgs', because it is providing a viable alternative to just blowing things up.

We should have something that gives borgs more modules. Like medical gets special 'restraint' tools. Stun tools. Sedatives. Cuffs are a big factor. Stuns are also cool. Perhaps give an EMP resistance option. Maybe create a little 'point' system that each borg can use, requires a reset board or ping to reset, and they can pull from a pool of things to use. Code Delta should not be mandatory. Neither should Combat Modules. Delta just makes everyone freak out and immediately start fighting the shuttle. God forbid they call a shuttle and you started the firewall breaches. 

[Jupiter Storm]

On 12/09/2019 at 21:00, Nikov said:

So if I'm next to an intercom and it says something, I'd see the intercom icon. If my headset says something, I get my headset's icon. If the sec officer next to me gets some sec channel chatter, I see a sec headset.

Then the AI can synthesize a voice, and we get better information from this feature.

This needs to be re-stated again because it's actually pure genius. Why should we see what someone is using to transmit a signal? A simple head-set has absolutely no way of determining a transmission source.

We should totally see the icon of what we're hearing the sound from, in the immediate vicinity.

[niennab]

On 13/09/2019 at 03:49, Jupiter Storm said:

First point of my suggestion is really simple!

- Remove or drastically reduce the power of, APC explosions:

They're not necessary, they add absolutely nothing to a round, it's soul destroying trying to repair them and you can just keep blowing them over and over again.

I like this point and I hope it is considered. My only experience with exploding APCs was done by an AI who, without RP, killed myself and two other players by exploding two APCs nearby us, taking us out of the round. I see no reason why they are there other than to valid people without a chance to really reasonably do anything about it.

[Nikov]

Tie the APC explosion power to the battery, with higher capacities generating larger explosions. Basic batteries generate rather mild explosions.

[sonicgotnuked]

1 hour ago, Nikov said:

Tie the APC explosion power to the battery, with higher capacities generating larger explosions. Basic batteries generate rather mild explosions.

I really don't know of anyone who bothers to upgrade APC batteries regardless. The only issue would be blowing up the super cells installed by the engines if this was the case. Explosions big on SMES, small (but still damaging and dangerous with a 4-5 radius) on APCs.

[Nantei]

2 hours ago, sonicgotnuked said:

I really don't know of anyone who bothers to upgrade APC batteries regardless. The only issue would be blowing up the super cells installed by the engines if this was the case. Explosions big on SMES, small (but still damaging and dangerous with a 4-5 radius) on APCs.

I do it if I am feeling bored. It gives me a reason to enter a department and interact with them. I'd also do it if the AI asked me to and I wasn't busy.

[Jupiter Storm]

3 hours ago, Nantei said:

I do it if I am feeling bored. It gives me a reason to enter a department and interact with them. I'd also do it if the AI asked me to and I wasn't busy.

Yeah, not to mention asking engineers to upgrade APC batteries is actually one of the less suspicious things an A.I. can ask for.

... Well, until it gets modified such that the explosion radius is determined by the cell. Then I can see it being meta'd maybe. >_>

[Nikov]

If a cyborg is capable of upgrading a cell on its own, it could go around 'laying traps' in that fashion. The cover for this being meta'd is simply having bored engineer cyborgs always upgrading power cells. If you do it every round its a lot of false positives, and that is one way to prevent metaing.

This, of course, is just a way to keep APC explosions lethal without making all APC explosions lethal by default.

[GreenBoi]

Raiders and Mercs can use radios. Why do people keep thinking they're locked to the default frequency?

[Nantei]

19 hours ago, GreenBoi said:

Raiders and Mercs can use radios. Why do people keep thinking they're locked to the default frequency?

Because it's extremely unintuitive and requires you do something you almost never have to do.

[Rushodan]

I love all of the suggestions here, really think they will help a malf build a story. The only thing I think really needs to stay though are the APC explosions. I tried to talk with people and come to a peaceful resolution on a malf round before, only to have them completely ignore me and continue smashing cameras, trying to rush my core etc. The way I actually managed to make them stop, listen, and talk was enacting one of my threats - blowing up an APC near someone actively destroying my equipment.

Without the APCs they would have been easily able to rush my core and kill me.

[sonicgotnuked]

1 hour ago, SHODAN said:

Without the APCs they would have been easily able to rush my core and kill me.

I still believe SMES's would be an acceptable 'max cap' compromise regardless. If you or anyone bothers to set RCON for five minutes while hacking something, by the time you need to blow it up, it'll have enough charge to do so. It'll still maxcap an area and pull this distraction. APC's are way too common and it makes no sense that one basic cell APC can blow up an entire department.

 

I understand the reason, but it's just way too commonly abused in my opinion. I understand that you can ahelp, but at a certain point, it comes to the mechanics because APCs are extremely easy to underestimate when destroying them. It vents multiple levels of station just by a few seconds and little warning besides power in the room cutting and BZZT. I remember on the Exodus when I underestimated. I ended up killing all of security because the entire upper part of the station vented. Now with the ZAS updates, it's become a lot more powerful.

 

APC
explosion_intensity = explosion_intensity + round((A.cell.charge / CELLRATE) / 100000)
SMES
explosion_intensity = 4 + round((S.charge / CELLRATE) / 100000)

For instance, APC's add a 2 base power due to the var defined before.

SMES's add a 4 base power. 

 

It still hits the max-cap though on both. So it is forced to limit itself on both.

Edited September 16, 2019 by sonicgotnuked

[Nikov]

Holy God, do not make a SMES explode with the force of its cell rate. The batteries are presumably chemical and we are looking at a hydrogen explosion of some sort, but the SMES is a superconductor. We can assert its design is safer than a really big battery, if only because a really big battery of the same capacity would be far too dangerous.

I would assert that AIs setting off max-cap explosions anywhere is exactly what we want to avoid.

I would suggest adding a 'grounding wire' to APC frames. If the grounding wire is cut, the APC can be made to explode. Cyborgs should be able to covertly snip this wire without too much trouble.