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Scheveningen

[Retracted] IPC Species Maintainer - Scheveningen

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Ckey/BYOND Username: Scheveningen (ckey), Scheveningen#0188 (discord)
Position Being Applied For: IPC Species Maintainer 
Past Experiences/Knowledge: I was on the lore team back in 2014, though I do not recall my precise role. I was the first human lore developer during another time period.
Examples of Past Work: The current Combat Robotics page was appended (https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Combat_Robotics) and modified from my initial forums proposition (https://forums.aurorastation.org/topic/11547-accepted-combat-robotics/). I had a fair deal of fun writing that. I also wrote the proposition for the Supreme Order of Christ, but that never became lore, sadly. Other work of mine has been lost over the annals of time and is Schev Apocrypha. 
Additional Comments: I've a few goals in mind with applying for the IPC/Synthetic Species Maintainer.
Firstly, the Kylo Ren Arc. I wish to finish a lot of what my master (@kyres1) started or never got to realize. I understand the reasons for why the previous synthetic event arc was cancelled, particularly in that kyres has other dedications beyond just spess. Much of what I intend to bring back is the SLF, Rudatek and the Lancers back into relevance. I was personally a bit disappointed with how the event arc in particular was handled, and I personally wish to do them better than the end they got. I also want to bring in a third synthetic antagonist group, one that serves as a foil to both the SLF and Rudatek, similar to how the two groups are foils to each other now. I also want to fix some inconsistencies with IPCs, particularly with details regarding how they fit into the setting, the nature of what rights an IPC has when self-owned or otherwise, and otherwise be one of the members on the synth team that contribute to making the "species" more enjoyable.

Secondly, I want to put it out there that while I am signing up for the maintainer role, I fully intend on treating any deputies that sign up as if they were an equal on the team we're all applying for. This is particularly because I want a team that can feel comfortable airing their issues with synth lore, and otherwise be contributors to making the bad parts not as prevalent, and likewise contribute their strengths to a team without the awkward "middle-manager to subordinate" relationship. I prefer blunt honesty over courteous white lies, particularly because I'm quite bad at reading intent over text and I'm not very good at reading whether someone has an issue if they don't outright say it. Part of the reason I am also applying for maintainer because I understand the responsibility that is entailed with adding or removing a whitelist from a player. Given the tentative and difficult nature of doing such a thing, it is a stressor I do not want placed on someone else who only has creative direction interest rather than having to deal with the dirty work of disciplining a problematic roleplayer. I will "take one for the team" in that regard of being someone who is the direct person to go to regarding whitelist issues, as it is not a glamorous job that I'm sure nobody wants to do, and surely other members of the synth lore team in the near future would appreciate not to be the go-to person to receive complaints themselves.

Thirdly, regarding whitelist issues. I have no intention of 'wiping the slate' or dramatically changing how people play IPC. I don't really care for lore reworks unless they're absolutely necessary to fix something that is broken. I have little to no interest in absurdly massive scope lore arcs, though familiar antagonistic synthetic groups may occur in the limelight if I am accepted, particularly so that there is nothing wasted in future event planning. I want people to enjoy IPC, rather than hating playing it or hating to have to deal with IPCs. Getting others who don't play IPC to like IPC characters is a trickier endeavor, but it is something I will try to work out with whatever crew is hired on. It is being taken under personal consideration, however, that inactive players may have their whitelist removed under the principle of inactivity.  If any slate is to be wiped clean, it's only for players who haven't been around in ages, or for players that haven't shown a good faith effort in portraying IPCs appropriately in roleplay. Either way, I still prefer the policy not to remove whitelists unless absolutely necessary. Not that there is anything wrong with leniency, but I believe there was too much of it in the past to the point where said leniency and trust was abused. There will be a degree of quality control and less tolerance towards chucklefucking as an IPC, but I do not intend to be oppressive or domineering about it. Reports of poor behavior as an IPC will be taken seriously, but fairly in the interest of keeping as many players around as possible, rather than removing them in the name of roleplay elitism.

My essay: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mBM3PtCdsP7nkoZ4o-z7qcM4KswK_GAK9TRj_be7rEc/ I wrote it on the subject of what it's like for a testing-phase positronic brain to have its rare interactions with people. Please enjoy and offer feedback.

 

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

Are you currently banned from any staff positions? If so, why, and do you think it would be tenable to have you in the lore team?

Edited by Marlon Phoenix

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1 hour ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Are you currently banned from any staff positions?

I have no idea.

By that I mean: I don't think I was ever told so, but it has been over a year since then and my memory is not especially good, especially right now as I'm taking new meds and probably couldn't even name all 50 states in the US much less recall something as important as a staff member telling me I should never apply for staff again.

I do know you're referencing my really terrible swan song as a moderator and the impact it had on me in terms of reputation. It was pretty bad, I've gotten better since then. 

Edited by Scheveningen

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Hi!

As you might have seen on the #lore_channel section of the Aurora Discord, I'm quite passionate about IPCs. Unfortunately I don't have the time (college) to deal with IPCs in any meaningful capacity beyond offering my suggestions. So I have a few questions!

1) How do you plan on handling the open-ended nature of the debates around synthetics? We've seen a lot of Human+ IPCs and absolutely boring and irrelevant IPCs who have nothing to them whatsoever. How do you feel about this?

2) What's your personal opinion on how an IPC should be played?

3) Do you believe current synthetics to be problematic in the way they are portrayed, e.g. too emotional, lack of interesting characteristics, etc. Why/why not?

4) What's your personal opinion on how an IPC should think? How do you attempt to exemplify this on the server?

5) If any of these are problems to you, how do you seek to resolve them?

I don't have any personal knowledge of anything great that you currently bring to the table, but that doesn't mean that you don't. It means I don't know any of them, and this is a great time to convince the community. Good luck on your application, Scheven!

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1) How do you plan on handling the open-ended nature of the debates around synthetics? 

More than likely it'll be settled once and for all by allowing an evolution of characteristics beyond just "boring robot" while not reaching the precipice of "Human+". When I say that, it's because right now there's a strange mix of people who play IPCs like very simple synthetics with very low social capacity, and then those who range up towards "intelligent, almost dangerously self-aware". I dislike the premise of "Human+" possibly more than most people care to, so don't worry, I know what direction I want to take and I know what limits I want to impose in terms of my own ambitions.

2) What's your personal opinion on how an IPC should be played?

This is a difficult question, as it's just as hard to be an arbiter for someone else's roleplay and nowadays I rarely want to risk offending people with an off-base analysis. I often find it less problematic to take the inverse out of this question, in What's the wrong way to play IPC? - as that is easier to answer and deal with. This is pretty much how we'll be able to determine if someone is roleplaying an IPC correctly, is to first identify if there's any flaws to their portrayal of an IPC. If the flaws are minimal, then we seek for strengths. It is important we know what to improve before we start lauding some person's character for their strengths.

Naturally, roleplaying a boring husk will constitute as an immediate flaw. I do find that it is an intrinsic part of being an IPC to have a simulated personality with depth and evolution to it, without crossing the awkward bounds of "feels" territory. I find that IPCs that roleplay very bland, simple synthetics would be better suited roleplaying cyborgs instead, as the divide in complexity is a rather huge leap of difference between IPC and stationbound.

3) Do you believe current synthetics to be problematic in the way they are portrayed, e.g. too emotional, lack of interesting characteristics, etc. Why/why not?

Often, "too-emotional" IPCs are not problematic in the fashion that they are too expressive, but because of the problem character's overt expressiveness, it motivates them to do things that are otherwise rather excessive and, in the context of IPCs, can be quite immersion-breaking and irritating to deal with. A line in the sand will be drawn in this regard as to what is acceptable or unacceptable. Often, I find that it is not the loudmouth IPCs that are a problem, but it is the ones who immediately step up to violently defend their friends with no consideration for risk while being a confident, no-fear loudmouth that are a problem.

Lacking depth in a character is also another concern I have with IPCs, too. I do not find it acceptable that people utilize the IPC whitelist to make throwaway characters that have very little characterization, goals or meaning in the universe that is set out for them to grow and expand as individuals. It's tiresome to see, not just for me but based on discussions I've had with others that share a similar opinion, and I want to make sure that aspects of IPC character creation has careful attention paid to it in the near future. I'll endeavor to make sure current and future players have this ideal conveyed to, so that no problems arise from future transitions.

4) What's your personal opinion on how an IPC should think? How do you attempt to exemplify this on the server?

I hate to be deflective, but it certainly should depend on circumstance. Is your IPC opportunistic, or are they selfless? If they are opportunistic, they will look out for #1, but will endeavor to be discrete when screwing over others for their own benefit - as any synthetic realizes, it is important to not get caught when committing a crime, because that's what unwise organics do - And what's the gain in cheating someone if you get caught? Very suboptimal. If they are selfless, they will look out for others, sometimes at their own risk. But they have to calculate first that self-sacrifice does not lead to a zero-sum situation where nothing was gained and everything was lost in the meaningless sacrifice. Dying for nothing is also, very suboptimal. To an IPC, principle must come after results.

It is essentially expected that IPCs think of themselves in some ways superior to organics through obvious objective measures (I don't breathe, you do, by technicality my method of survival is more efficient and less deadly), but not in a boasting fashion. Ego is not a tangible concept to an IPC. It is meaningless to boast of one's accomplishments, but humility is just as meaningless to them. They recognize ego and humility as human concepts and understand how they affect the behavior of organics, but only in theory. Such things don't apply to them as concepts that they can personally grasp and allow it to influence them. They understand anger and are conscious of its effects on people, but they themselves are immune to angry impulses.

5) If any of these are problems to you, how do you seek to resolve them?

A lot of it is going to be reforming character creation guidelines for IPCs in accordance with some examples outlined above, as well as the guide on how to roleplay them, and then those standards will be enforced as time goes on. It may be easier to outline some "don't"s first on the wiki if I get hired on, but depending on who the team is composed of, we'll see how things go. 

It's also been on my mind to coach certain synthetic players on example characters they will use to play several rounds with, to serve as a good example for others to enjoy gameplay and RP with. It requires active involvement and time investment, however, but the effects might be more immediate than just sitting back and hoping people will get the right idea someday.

Edited by Scheveningen

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It’s a pretty solid app so far. Sytic asked a lot of very good questions. I’ll add some more.

1) Creativity: IPC lore in its current state offers a surprising amount of flexibility when it comes to unique character concepts. Kyres had played many of them (Such as Akinyi Idowu) to showcase just how unique an IPC can be, without being Human+, super emotional, or unbelievable. How would you try to encourage these character concepts? Do you think you’ll have a problem making judgement calls on what’s unique versus what’s unrealistic? How do you think you can encourage interesting IPC concepts so people don’t default to “human+,” “blank slate nothing,” or “emotional screeching?”

2) Whitelists: It’s not enjoyable, but it’s going to come up. This is one of more popular whitelisted species. Whether you remove one or not, you’re going to catch flak from either side. How do you think you can handle this? I know you’re better than you used to be, but you still can be sassy and heated at times. There's a lot of turmoil around IPCs, players, and whitelists; do you think you are able to handle the stress that comes with that?

3) Golden Deep: What are your thoughts on them? Outside of perhaps one or two characters, I feel that they are largely ignored, and rarely referenced. Do you want to encourage more relevance for them?

4) Purchase: What are your thoughts on the trend of people purchasing IPC crewmembers? It feels like this is a theme recently.

5) Characters: How will you try to prevent big-tiddy thotbot gfs? This is, sadly, a serious question.

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18 minutes ago, Doxxmedearly said:

Golden Deep:

This is a good topic to bring up, actually. We have a lot of synth lore that is just-- ignored entirely. Sunshine hasn't made an appearance since she was first wrote, and the Golden Deep is vastly under-rated, to the extent it's difficult to play my Golden Deep IPC.

Will unused and abandoned synth lore be dusted off, or removed/reworked?

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I have another two questions, if you don't mind!

6) How would you handle a non-expressive, 'emotional' synthetic? Are their emotions 'real' to them, and do they have a full suite of these 'emotions'?

7) What do you think about the synthetic emergence debate as a whole, especially in regards to the 'my emotions are real to me' argument in contrast to IPCs who are undoubtedly emotionless? Do you think it is a worth-it debate, and if so, will that colour your opinion on how you change synthetics on the server?

My questions are in an attempt to bolster your application, not pressure you. Good luck and have fun!

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I'm so sorry for this essay-writing, but all of these are very good (and tricky) questions that deserve exploration.

1) Creativity: As mentioned before, the 'character coaching' is a particular method I intend on testing to see how effective it'll be in practice, since 'on paper' theory only goes so far, but that's one of the best bets of outreach we're gonna get without getting awkwardly invasive into the affairs of other players. I want to avoid the nightmare scenario of being accused of elitism for coaching certain characters over others, though, as I understand that there are awkward possible implications with any action that can be taken.

In regards to problematic IPCs, I intend on ensuring a clean slate in terms of the relationship between any player and the new synth team. The context of previous relationships with players and the new synth lore team will be disregarded, as I think it is important to start over fresh and not have any awkward lasting grudges with one system carrying over into the next. However, I do not plan on giving particular offensive characters a lot of chances. I'm not looking forward to it, but I understand the necessity and responsibility of having to tell a player "no". I will endeavor to make sure that "no" is not the only thing that can be taken away from the discussion about the problematic nature of their character.

2) Whitelists: I'll take the hits as they come. Better me than anyone else who boards the synth team, as I can take vitriol in large amounts.

3) Golden Deep: I do not intend on disposing of the Golden Deep. We will find an adequate place for our Golden Bots somewhere, as they are too fabulous to kill.

4) Purchase: I am not really a fan of the concept, honestly, but it is easily not as offensive as other issues. It should nonetheless be considered that purchasing an IPC is incredibly expensive (massive cost short-term, may pay off long-term?), moreso than just loaning them for work purposes (short-term cheaper, long-term more expensive). You'd have to be sitting on a substantial nest-egg to be able to purchase an IPC. I will not force any retcons for previous IPC purchases, however. It will simply become more difficult to do as a private person in the future.

5) Characters: The best way I can describe it is this, since it's similar to the infamous "tajaran reproductive organs" question. I will not deny that there are possibly IPCs in our universe with chassis functionality built towards a specific career path, you will not be expected to see them on a corporate space station, considering the unnecessary mass and weight involved with having large synthetic faux-mammaries. It will severely hamper the effectiveness and flexibility of an IPC if they have such unnecessary implants fixed upon their front of their chassis, so it is incredibly unlikely for an IPC to be hired on with such an appearance. Not even as a service IPC will this be excusable, and individuals who find the prospect of boarding the station as a Shell prostitute amusing enough to try to pull off, will inevitably find themselves in a position of regretting doing that.

Naturally, this intended 'discriminatory towards large mammaried persons' change is moreso to defeat characters designed to ERP bait rather than it is to minimize the representation of the experiences of those with large breasts, fake or not. I should note that there are other servers for that, as "IPC with giant breasts" is not a character element I am interested in, no matter how interesting a singular character might be in other aspects. It won't be tolerable to have certain physical aspects of your character to stick out in everyone's face in an offensive manner.

6) How would you handle a non-expressive, 'emotional' synthetic? Are their emotions 'real' to them, and do they have a full suite of these 'emotions'?

I find that emotions for a synthetic, or at least 'feelings' or whatever you define as picked up through sensory substitutes for organs like eyes/ears/etc., are a really difficult subject to convey to someone who may have difficulty understanding that a lot of senses that come naturally to a person may be depicted differently to a completely different 'species'. So we may have to deconstruct aspects of this question first to be able to answer it appropriately.

Firstly, synthetics do not feel fear, or pain, or remorse, by a standard default. Now, all of this is only true if synthetic intelligence is not given principles (i.e., laws) to abide by. Such principles may include self-preservation. Self-preservation means to prefer to avoid damage to the self, and by extension avoiding situations that would certainly cause serious damage to a synthetic, if not total destruction. Another principle is having an actual set of morals, so that depending on the IPC, there are certain actions depending on context that may be dishonorable, or other acts that are honorable and 'good' to others. If an IPC inadvertently wrongs another individual while this morality core is active within their system, they will not immediately self-destruct or try to delete themselves. Similar to how humans deal with guilt, an IPC for a time may nearly overflow attempting to sort out information and come to a conclusion as to what went wrong, similar to computers when they undergo a crash or hardware fault. If they are even capable of rebooting to tell you what went wrong, of course.

Nuance regarding one IPC's morality core and another's will differ, and I would prefer it to differ. A system I want to implement with some developer help in the future is allowing for some additional depth to character-creation that adds "morality core" aspects to each character, which will determine on a character-to-character who has these kinds of morals, and someone else who has those kinds of morals. How this will be available to access in-game will likely either be through records only, or examined by a roboticist... anyway, I must digress. Sneak-peek of things that may come, I guess. But to answer the question, emotions will not apply or even be relevant to an IPC the way it is for a human being. The concept of 'feeling' the world and the people around you, as an IPC, will be different from how a human being experiences it. The differences will be distinct, but at some point I do hope that the difference feels important enough to players that they can actually see the value of playing IPCs.

7) What do you think about the synthetic emergence debate as a whole, especially in regards to the 'my emotions are real to me' argument in contrast to IPCs who are undoubtedly emotionless? Do you think it is a worth-it debate, and if so, will that colour your opinion on how you change synthetics on the server?

The best way to put it is this. The way an IPC physically, socially and morally views the world around it will be determined as valid as any other person who has their own view on physical, social or moral subjects. They could be right according to one, or wrong according to another. IPCs will (still?) be capable of holding opinions on subjects, having preferences due to personal quirks/experiences/characterization. It will be intentionally left open-ended whether an IPC can truly love, or hate, or feel joy or feel anger. I do enjoy this debate, for the most part, and the ability to experience the world and situations will certainly be different to an IPC, but they may end up finding themselves in quiet moments how similar they are to other sentients. The average, tradition-minded humanoid may be up in arms over the implication that an IPC can love or hate, though.

I do have a few stipulations about that, though, and specific boundaries for people not to cross in the interest of hopefully not gentrifying the IPC experience for others. It should be understood by others that I expect a little escalation, and a lot of experience before I'm willing to accept someone for roleplaying an IPC in a way that seems emergent and expressive. Newer IPC players should get comfortable with understanding the basics of how a robot thinks and how they experience the world, because they need that basis as a starting point. I do expect some explanation for what character growth caused a certain spike in expressiveness/emotion if and when it happens.

To restate as a tl;dr to this point. The concept of feeling things based on circumstances, the current tone of a situation, and relationships with others; aka emotion - should be considered to be interpreted and executed differently than when a human experiences an emotional event. Humans will lash out sometimes in instinct, rashly, because of chemical imbalances or even raw feeling like hate or fear. An IPC isn't expected to succumb similarly to such instincts. Unlike a human, they are capable of being able to think and attribute their processes to many subjects at a time. Based on the IPC's moral code (influenced but not dominated by their programming, ofc), they may just as well make a difficult decision similar that humanoids have to deal with, but I would expect there to be a difference in why a difficult decision was made by an IPC, versus as to why a human made that same decision.

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..Oops, I misread question #6, as to how I'd deal with offenders.

Yeah, I don't want to make it a point that business is done inconsistently where the synth team is asking for reflex whitelist strips when reported context looks really bad, but hasn't been analyzed further than surface level as to what went wrong. Ensuring investigations are done properly and appropriately in the interest of equity is a priority I want to focus on.

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I think Schev would be a great synth maintainer. I like you as a person, and this application, and your answers are very satisfactory. I am also extremely glad that you will be finishing what your master started. The essay is very inspiring; I had a rough time with playing synths lately, but reading this thread is a blast and might get me back to playing again.
I don't really know what to ask as most here have already posed a lot of interesting questions, but for the sake of my own curiousity, I do have one question: Besides continuing the arc with SLF and Rudatek and this third antagonist group you mention, what is the general direction you're going to take? Will you largely keep things as they are right now, and only continue what has been started?

Edited by BoryaTheSlayer
grammer

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My initial priority will be to stabilize aspects of the IPC identity before making moves with narrative direction. Rather than flipping IPC lore on its head, it would be more accurate that I'd be giving it a good facelift.

It's a definitive possibility that things will change, perhaps a bit radically, dependent on who I decide will be on the Power Rangers team as synth devs. 

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

How do you think you will be able to handle uncharitable criticisms from players or even fellow staff? IPC's have a huge playerbase with very dedicated followers who have disparate, irreconcilable ideas about what it means to be IPC. It is going to be pretty stressful. Do you currently feel like you can handle the pushback you would definately receive? Can you handle these things better nowadays?

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I'll be able to handle it much better than I've handled it at my prior best, if that puts it into perspective. That sounds boastful, I'm sorry if it does, but I want to take this role with confidence and to be fair and just.

Pushback to change, much like change itself, is always inevitable, so it seems meaningless to get angry as a defensive strategy against others. I have things put into better perspective, based on my past failures.

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Can you detail your goals more specifically? A time line of sorts? A sequence of things you want to focus by order?

I know you can write and you haven't really posted any major plot changes or style of management changes that I can really touch on that hasn't already been posted here. Though I feel you answered your questions adequately. 

 

There are things I need to bring up in regards to applicant themselves. I spoke to you on discord about this but I'll reiterate, I feel like responding to this over the forums to also be insightful.

You have the tendency where you have to get the last word in, even at the expense of the rules or being nice. It's a reoccurring issue that I wish you would just stop with it. The lore team involves a lot of communication, and there may be heated topics as we all are passionate about the work we do, and in my opinion, it does not take much to cause mischief and distrust between people. So I need to know where you stand with this, genuinely, can you hold yourself? 

 

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10 hours ago, Aboshedab said:

Can you detail your goals more specifically? A time line of sorts? A sequence of things you want to focus by order?

The big three for the foreseeable future:

1. Settling the sentience/emotional capacity debate, and post-Kyres phase of putting to rest the last 5 years of the horrible synth civil rights arc that almost never ended, just to tie up things he never managed to.
2. Reforming character roleplay guidelines for IPCs to better conform to a standard that equitably permits a certain degree of "free roam" with IPC character designs, while also tying up certain loopholes or loose ends that make IPC characters very easily susceptible to bad character traits, which inevitably creates poor character behavior motivated from those attributes.
3. Reviewing the whitelist process for synthetics, and reforming whitelist app acceptance guidelines to be tuned to a specific intent of what I + the future lore synth team want to see out of potential IPC characters in the future.

Anything else would be putting the cart before the horse. If I plus whatever team is chosen cannot accomplish the above three in a meaningful fashion, anything else we do has greatly diminished impact and won't improve the standing of IPCs in terms of a roleplay and gameplay feature on this server, than if we accomplished the above three and then moved on to creative direction decisions. We have to fix what is broken before moving onto adding new stuff in.

I will say that my intent with IPCs after these big three aspects is very ambitious and I have a lot of ideas, but I don't think the current period of time is the right one to talk about the various directions that I could take IPCs with. A synthetic maintainer is direly needed to first fix any problems that makes the species unnecessarily burdensome to the rest of the playerbase. That's the brunt of my initial focus, so I want to be able to accomplish the first phase before planning in-depth for the second one.

10 hours ago, Aboshedab said:

You have the tendency where you have to get the last word in, even at the expense of the rules or being nice. It's a reoccurring issue that I wish you would just stop with it. The lore team involves a lot of communication, and there may be heated topics as we all are passionate about the work we do, and in my opinion, it does not take much to cause mischief and distrust between people. So I need to know where you stand with this, genuinely, can you hold yourself? 

I agree with this assessment entirely and I better understand the problem. I will hold myself to the better standard described by you.

Edited by Scheveningen

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Why do you go to great lengths to hide your past, 1138, Delta, Schev and why do you delete your old forum accounts and posts? You might have changed, but anyone that knows how you were knows what to look for.

 This for example, was a post done by your now deleted account. Why did you delete that account? Why did you delete the Hall of Shame thread once Skull moved it to archive and locked it. Why do you hide your past? Are you afraid that people judge you by it? They do, they certainly do me, but I dont think its fair that my past be weighed and measured and yours completely forgotten. Why ARE you supposedly banned from staff. Why DID you change your account names multiple times, and why did you delete your old posts? If you have reasons for this, I am willing to accept it, but really it begs to question and I would like to know what Boots is talking about.

Edited by Bygonehero

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Hello @Scheveningen, I've come out of my cave to comment on your application. Though my activity may be scarce in this day-and-age, I still main IPC's from time to time, and try to keep up with lore-events/help where I can. I've got a few questions to ask of you on-top of the ones already asked, mainly regarding the policy you mentioned at the end of your paragraph regarding inactive players, seeing as this is something that may effect myself or others in a similar situation. 

Should you uphold your words in your application, how do you plan on enforcing whitelist revoking due to inactivity? Would you be willing to elaborate on how long is long enough for a whitelist strip? Will people who are active in non server-side related activities with their IPC (I.E The relay/etc) be considered for the chopping block?

As for lore-specific questions:
I see that you mention about refining what it means to be a owned/self-owned IPC. How do you plan on elaborating what it means to be one of those options? Will it uphold the somewhat status quo, or will players need to modify their backstories/how they play? Will you elaborate on the options that an IPC has to taking self-ownership?

Most of my other questions are either too similar to the ones asked before, or have already been answered in some way/shape/form, so I'll leave you with these. Though, I believe I should put my 2 cents in on the things @Bygonehero has brought up.

Back when we were both on staff, I did have a negative opinion on how you handled things. At the time I felt you were a bit too gung-ho on certain issues, and abrasive. Back in the day, would you have posted an application regarding joining as the loredev for the race that I play and enjoy the most, I would have almost undoubtedly fought against the application. However, I do feel that you have changed for the better. I do not believe that a majority of the things that you did a years ago should be held against you, seeing as since then its as if you made a complete 180, and admitted your mistakes/shortcomings. I think your actions taken in the past one-two years to change are worth overlooking some of the things you did in the past. We've all gotten angry, and said things that we have regretted in the past, and probably never would say again. We've all let our emotions precedence over logic, its a normal human thing, we all do that shit. 

Anyways, good luck, godspeed, I'm going back to my cave.

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Could I ask what the purpose and relevance is of bringing up 3 year old posts, accompanied by a barrage of very personal questions better suited to Direct Messaging than it is for a staff application? I didn't re-open this page in my browser to take yet another trip down memory lane, nor am I inclined to discuss things I had paid the price for from my own stupidity and failure. That discussion has already been had before, and there is not likely to be any new information or value from having it again. I do not agree with the principle of going back a year or more into time to pull up examples of behavior that don't currently match up with what's going on in the present, as all it seems to do in most cause/effect situations is make the defending individual feel guilty. It shouldn't be applied as a standard at all, much less even once, unless the behavior from 'then' and 'now' is identical. It isn't fair to gaslight someone like that.

Re; Marlon's point. He was asking if I was de jure banned from all staff positions. My long-term and short-term memory are not especially great right now but I would have definitely remembered if I was told that I was unable to apply for staff. This application being up for this long indicates that at least this application is being considered alongside all the others. Whether I am de facto banned from all staff positions is not within my current knowledge, but I would presume that if I was, I would've been told such a week ago by this application being immediately closed by a head staff member. Marlon was not sure of this fact when this application was initially opened, so it was the tamest way to ask. Moving on.
 

5 hours ago, ToasterStrudel said:

Should you uphold your words in your application, how do you plan on enforcing whitelist revoking due to inactivity? Would you be willing to elaborate on how long is long enough for a whitelist strip? Will people who are active in non server-side related activities with their IPC (I.E The relay/etc) be considered for the chopping block?

The goal will be primarily to trim the bloat of inactive IPC whitelist holders, particularly of 8 months of inactivity and upwards (spitballed number, depends on what happens, but 6 months is a worst-case scenario minimum). The whitelist holders in particular will be permitted to reapply to the same process that anyone who's never applied before must also abide. Still playing on the server but not playing IPC will not count as grounds to remove someone's whitelist. Server/community inactivity is a fairer metric to go by, it is also the only way one's activity in the game community can be tracked. If one still plays semi-occasionally i.e twice a month it's still better than "not logged onto the server in 6-8 months".

5 hours ago, ToasterStrudel said:

As for lore-specific questions:
I see that you mention about refining what it means to be a owned/self-owned IPC. How do you plan on elaborating what it means to be one of those options? Will it uphold the somewhat status quo, or will players need to modify their backstories/how they play? Will you elaborate on the options that an IPC has to taking self-ownership?

An owned IPC, as property or as a product, may have some aspects to their character that make them generally more reserved or slightly less capable of emergent behavior either due to social reasons or physically enforced reasons such as differentiated programming. Contrast this with a free IPC, who has no physical restrictions of the sort that is capable of exploring abstract or difficult topics like any sentient would. A free IPC would have less of a reserved attitude and may occasionally be inclined to do things based off their own whims to experience something new and risky, because there is no cost to drawing negative attention to oneself like there is to an owned IPC who is property and must represent something higher than themselves.

This and more will be integrated with IPC lore over time. It will ironically be done in an organic fashion as I want to minimize retcons as much as possible. The distinction exists to allow some players to play as more detached but-still-capable-of-emergence archetypes of IPCs, and self-owned IPCs will exist to be the most progressive aspect of IPC lore.

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I haven't always gotten along with Schev. Cue, flashbacks to things I don't want to bring into a staff application, as they haven't happened again. While I guess I haven't had the best track record in terms of my time here, I can put a general like towards how Schev's responded, and been in the past so-often that I spoke with them, even during my server inactivity. While we still butt heads over problems and ideas, I can happily say I'd appreciate the way Schev would do things for IPCs, the same way I appreciated how Kyres took it and made it even better. So hopefully you get it, nerd, 'cause I like the ideas talked about here. I have questions I guess, but nothing overly relevant to the large scheme of lore so I'll probably PM them to you eventually.

 

Good luck, man. 'ppreciate you.

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To clarify my lore question, I was moreso referring to the legal standing in Tau Ceti regarding what rights Owned/Self-Owned IPCs have. Right now there is an understanding that self-owned IPCs have more rights than owned, but there is no written down list of what they have or do not have in terms if rights. 

Edited by ToasterStrudel

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5 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

Could I ask what the purpose and relevance is of bringing up 3 year old posts, accompanied by a barrage of very personal questions better suited to Direct Messaging than it is for a staff application? I didn't re-open this page in my browser to take yet another trip down memory lane, nor am I inclined to discuss things I had paid the price for from my own stupidity and failure. That discussion has already been had before, and there is not likely to be any new information or value from having it again. I do not agree with the principle of going back a year or more into time to pull up examples of behavior that don't currently match up with what's going on in the present, as all it seems to do in most cause/effect situations is make the defending individual feel guilty. It shouldn't be applied as a standard at all, much less even once, unless the behavior from 'then' and 'now' is identical. It isn't fair to gaslight someone like that.

Re; Marlon's point. He was asking if I was de jure banned from all staff positions. My long-term and short-term memory are not especially great right now but I would have definitely remembered if I was told that I was unable to apply for staff. This application being up for this long indicates that at least this application is being considered alongside all the others. Whether I am de facto banned from all staff positions is not within my current knowledge, but I would presume that if I was, I would've been told such a week ago by this application being immediately closed by a head staff member. Marlon was not sure of this fact when this application was initially opened, so it was the tamest way to ask. Moving on.
 

The goal will be primarily to trim the bloat of inactive IPC whitelist holders, particularly of 8 months of inactivity and upwards (spitballed number, depends on what happens, but 6 months is a worst-case scenario minimum). The whitelist holders in particular will be permitted to reapply to the same process that anyone who's never applied before must also abide. Still playing on the server but not playing IPC will not count as grounds to remove someone's whitelist. Server/community inactivity is a fairer metric to go by, it is also the only way one's activity in the game community can be tracked. If one still plays semi-occasionally i.e twice a month it's still better than "not logged onto the server in 6-8 months".

An owned IPC, as property or as a product, may have some aspects to their character that make them generally more reserved or slightly less capable of emergent behavior either due to social reasons or physically enforced reasons such as differentiated programming. Contrast this with a free IPC, who has no physical restrictions of the sort that is capable of exploring abstract or difficult topics like any sentient would. A free IPC would have less of a reserved attitude and may occasionally be inclined to do things based off their own whims to experience something new and risky, because there is no cost to drawing negative attention to oneself like there is to an owned IPC who is property and must represent something higher than themselves.

This and more will be integrated with IPC lore over time. It will ironically be done in an organic fashion as I want to minimize retcons as much as possible. The distinction exists to allow some players to play as more detached but-still-capable-of-emergence archetypes of IPCs, and self-owned IPCs will exist to be the most progressive aspect of IPC lore.

I asked because you have a habit of trudging up history, incorrectly I might add to support your point. In 

 you judged me based on activities years ago, assuming that there was no difference between then and now. It spelled to me as a low blow, but more importantly it signalled to me that the past is always relevant. If you judged me based on everything I have ever done to receive a command whitelist, I can only think you would judge other people the same using your increased authority to verify it this time. Why shouldnt you also be judged for everything you have ever done, considering you bring up year old issues yourself? It seems to me that you have mellowed out, but your old tendancies still exist, and more troubling is that since you deleted your three old accounts its next to impossible for anyone to verify if you are repeating past behaviors. I would really like to know your answer to this, and if you think its ok to judge people by their actions years ago, while also deleting all of your old accounts and posts.  

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1 hour ago, Bygonehero said:

 you judged me based on activities years ago,

Which you were repeating in the present.

1 hour ago, Bygonehero said:

It spelled to me as a low blow, but more importantly it signalled to me that the past is always relevant.

The context is very, very, very different.

1 hour ago, Bygonehero said:

If you judged me based on everything I have ever done to receive a command whitelist, I can only think you would judge other people the same using your increased authority to verify it this time.

That's a pretty ridiculous assumption.
 

1 hour ago, Bygonehero said:

Why shouldnt you also be judged for everything you have ever done, considering you bring up year old issues yourself?

Because again, the context is different.

 

Edited by Scheveningen

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And how is someone suppose to determine if you are repeating past if you delete it? Even admins would have difficulty if not impossibility in recovering notes from a deleted byond account or forum account. If repetative behavior is what overcomes the time in which it occurred why have you gone to such lengths to hide your past from everyone, including admins if not to hide it?

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