I think we need to talk about processing in Security.

[BurgerBB]

As AI, on quiet rounds, I've noticed that security players tend to not really want to charge crewmembers for anything.

If a fight breaks out that involves blood, security just label it as a petty misunderstanding and don't bother arresting anyone.

If a crewmember is caught stealing items from other crew or departments, they just give them a warning and tell them not to do it again.

If a crewmember is caught trespassing in medical and refuses to leave for 5 minutes, security just shows up, tells them to get out and doesn't bother doing anything.

If a crewmember was reported stealing 500u of acid from the science chem dispenser, security doesn't care to investigate.

I have personally witnessed security take 1 hour to arrest a scientist who was feeding kois to monkey and releasing them to the crew.

When I was a warden, I would have to be the one to say "Hey uhhhhhhh how come we're not charging this person for stealing medicine from medical???" and issue an arrest warrant. 

I've personally been in a situation where I got in a fight with another crewmember involving blood and weapons, and security didn't bother to charge anyone because they didn't know who started it first despite standing in a pool of my own blood with the weapon used to assault me next to them.

 

Security, however, are quick to rush towards anyone who is armed with a weapon. Security are extremely quick to detain/arrest any intruder on the station regardless if they're hostile or not. Security are extremely quick to chase people who teleport or move really fast.

 

This means either one of two things:

1.) Security are the valid hunters we all know and love, and if there isn't any great combat or prize to be won, they don't give a shit.

2.) They feel bad for crew and don't want to put a security record on their record.

3.) Security don't like processing people.

 

I'm more inclined to believe that #3 is the case but honestly deep down inside me, I think it's #1. You can't really fix #1 because it's extremely fucking easy to create doubt. Maybe shitsec doesn't want to be seen as shitsec so they've gone so far away from immediately arresting people for breaking regulations, they've wrapped around back to shitsec. I think the solution here is to make processing better but honestly I don't even know if processing is the problem here.

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by BurgerBB

[N8-Toe]

I mean, I will say when I'm playing sec officer unless blood is drawn I don't usually arrest people. I tell em to knock it off. 

 

I will also say I dislike processing and dump that on the warden when possible. 

[Spider]

yes every single person that plays security is a valid hunter well done ?

[Hendricks]

I see some sense in what your saying. I’ve done some wild things in my time and as long as someone backs me up. I never pay any price. But I don’t see it as a bad thing. Telling people to knock it off usually is all it takes. If there too strict they would be shitsec. Not the other way around. Besides skirting around the regulations at times is a lot of fun. I don’t want a security record pages long for just stupid stuff I didn’t think through. 

[Carver]

Trust me when I say it's generally #3. Processing people can be a massive pain in the ass, especially since the introduction of the 'automated' system via those wall consoles, and particularly if they're putting up a fuss or they have friends (in which case it can feel like rev on extended if it goes very annoyingly). You also tend to get people bitching after the round about 'shitcurity' because you arrested them for whatever crime they assumed they could get away with because another Officer let them do so (without giving them a warning) in a previous round.

As such, it's usually easier to give warnings for people who haven't done anything genuinely malicious. It generally isn't #1 outside of very, very bored members of Security; as dealing with antagonists can be just as much of a pain in the ass, the difference is you essentially have to at least pretend to care about antagonistic shit or you're failing at your role enough that you might get jobbanned for doing nothing (unless you're a cowardly Officer, in which case you can usually get away with it via proper RP).

On 01/01/2020 at 19:00, BurgerBB said:

I've personally been in a situation where I got in a fight with another crewmember involving blood and weapons, and security didn't bother to charge anyone because they didn't know who started it first despite standing in a pool of my own blood with the weapon used to assault me next to them.

The hesitation to arrest in this regard is usually when, for lack of damning evidence, Officers/Security will feel inclined to let you go to avoid having to deal with IRs/Player Complaints from potential improper briggings. (And also because babysitting people through processing/brigging, as per earlier, can be a pain in the ass)

[AmoryBlaine]

Processing works well enough. It's sorta annoying, but what the hell. It's not suppose to be fun to have to write up why you arrested someone, and input all the charges against them. We have a nice enough system for it.

[Peppermint]

Eh? Who cares about processing? I've never known anyone to complain about it.

 

I think a decent part of this also comes down to who is playing sec at the time. Extended tends to draw a very different crowd to secret, who are more likely to RP and less likely to just slam every charge they can 'just cause'.

[Carver]

The crowd's usually fairly similar, it's just they don't want chucklefucks taking away from their own RP time (via processing and arrest procedures).

[Happy_Fox]

The only awkwardness I've had with processing is when the accused has no ID so you can't generate an incident report from the console, meaning you have to use an external timer (as in, outside the game - or keep track in game of how long based on the time) to best keep track of their punishment, because by the time you've gotten a replacement ID from a HoP they're likely to have gone over their brig time.

But that's a rarity, most of the time its that processing takes so long that for quite a few offences the time spent processing fills out the punishment time, meaning you write them up and its practically time for them to leave already.

[Contextual]

You are forgetting the 4th reason: A complete lack of the infrastructural roles in the department.

I have let some ridiculous things slide in my time playing security with little more than a slap on the wrist and a firm warning, simply because we lacked a warden or head of security to actually handle the processing and brig monitoring. Having to do those things as an officer is incredibly taxing, in much the same way performing EMS as a surgeon is--you have things you need to be getting done, elsewhere, and you're instead stuck doing someone else's job. Or worse: You slap a heavy charge on the guy so that you have to deal with releasing the guy later rather than sooner, and then dump them in a cell and ditch them for the rest of the round. I cannot quantify how much I despise this practice of throwing away the key, and with it completely screwing another player with isolation. 

On the other hand, not having forensics is even more crippling. Take for instance your example of having the blood, the wound, the weapon--all of the evidence you need to make the case. A forensics wet dream--but you don't have the CSI to come down, swab the blood, dust the weapon, and then produce the concrete evidence needed to easily close the case. Instead, all you have is mystery blood, a mystery weapon, and no witnesses except for the accused and accuser. And, of course, no warrant, because you don't have a warden, you don't have a commander, and you don't actually have meaningful evidence because it can't be cataloged.

But with antagonists, you have actively hostile entities that are committing crimes out in the open, with witnesses, most important of which being the officers themselves (See: Station Regulations, Directives). This means that the officers don't need warrants, don't need investigations, and don't need command permission to go and do their jobs. 

A good comparison to another department would be to have a medical bay with no surgeons. They can respond, they can patch and mend, but broken bones will be broken forever because the personnel required just aren't there.

[Xelnagahunter]

7 minutes ago, Happy_Fox said:

The only awkwardness I've had with processing is when the accused has no ID so you can't generate an incident report from the console, meaning you have to use an external timer (as in, outside the game - or keep track in game of how long based on the time) to best keep track of their punishment, because by the time you've gotten a replacement ID from a HoP they're likely to have gone over their brig time.

But that's a rarity, most of the time its that processing takes so long that for quite a few offences the time spent processing fills out the punishment time, meaning you write them up and its practically time for them to leave already.

Warden and HoS, along with HoP and Captain have boxes of spare IDs to use when an ID is missing. It might not properly place the charge on their record, but it's an ID to use for those purposes.

[Randy]

9 hours ago, Carver said:

Trust me when I say it's generally #3. Processing people can be a massive pain in the ass, especially since the introduction of the 'automated' system via those wall consoles, and particularly if they're putting up a fuss or they have friends (in which case it can feel like rev on extended if it goes very annoyingly). You also tend to get people bitching after the round about 'shitcurity' because you arrested them for whatever crime they assumed they could get away with because another Officer let them do so (without giving them a warning) in a previous round.

As such, it's usually easier to give warnings for people who haven't done anything genuinely malicious. It generally isn't #1 outside of very, very bored members of Security; as dealing with antagonists can be just as much of a pain in the ass, the difference is you essentially have to at least pretend to care about antagonistic shit or you're failing at your role enough that you might get jobbanned for doing nothing (unless you're a cowardly Officer, in which case you can usually get away with it via proper RP).

The hesitation to arrest in this regard is usually when, for lack of damning evidence, Officers/Security will feel inclined to let you go to avoid having to deal with IRs/Player Complaints from potential improper briggings. (And also because babysitting people through processing/brigging, as per earlier, can be a pain in the ass)

This

 

people are quick to complain in ooc if officers enforce regulations and it usually goes into a blue wall ooc about shitcurity even though noone really knows the situation so why bother then if its not worth the trouble

[SatinsPristOTD]

I think it stems from the end of round "OH MY GOD. SECURITY IS SUCH SHIT. They arrested us for having some FUN in the BAR"

And secmains just don't want that damn headache. If anyone realizes ss13 is a game, it's the secmains. Yes, they'll hRP, and do it fairly well (even off station. Some of our best RPers come from that department.), but they also know when to let people just... have a small bit of fun without being giant sticks in the mud.

So.... I believe it's a problem of number 2.

No one cares to actually valid an antag. That antag doesn't offer anything to our canon. Our friendships, relationships, work acquaintances, and the small world we've built through canon actions is what really means something to us. Officer Brigs is a kind and caring man. He knows people blow off a bit of steam. SSD hits us. Stressful work. We're trapped in a rusty sardine can. There's no point in ruining a guys life over a bar brawl. Blackballing his record with the company. Ensuring he's enslaved to this place, for fear he'll not find work outside of it.

But that antag? That antag isn't canon... now is it? That doesn't mean you can valid it. Absolutely not.... but that antag holds no hope in my officers heart. He's not a guy I see on a daily basis. I don't know his wife, and their two tots. He doesn't fix me my sandwich exactly how I want, nor does he shoot the shit with me around the water cooler on breaks. He's not my friend. He's not my coworker. I'll slap him with a petty crime and not think. twice. about it. He is a nonfactor to me.

We aren't police. There's debate on what the ISD is. A force. A mall cop. A private military. A combination of both. But the fact is: We don't RP as police, not really. Sec is seen as the fun police because after seeing so much shit, they do have to step in and regulate the masses. However, most of our secmains are fairly down to earth, idiots. They fart, eat cheap food and complain about the Dominian war on Lakos Prime just like any other crew member in any other department.

Only difference is, the secmains have the ability to blackball your characters records, if they choose to be sticklers with their job.

I'm not going to tell you there aren't validy officers. We've seen our fair share, but we can't demand every officer have the morals, facial expressions and attitudes of wet cardboard. If an officer decided to be lax, maybe find out why ICly. Perhaps that's part of the character. Perhaps that officer just wants to give everyone a chance.

[SierraKomodo]

As a recently returned sec main, I've noticed this too, but I've also noticed that when I tried to step up and actually do the job as security, the rest of security jumped on me about it and refused to cooperate. Specifically in the round that just happened - I wanted to start tagging people for misuse of comms and disobeying orders to stop discussing certain topics on comms, and for heckling a team of heavily armed skrellians that we were trying to peacefully resolve issues with, and the rest of security kept shutting me down anytime I brought it up.

 

There seems to be a common mentality among security to just not do anything unless they're antags.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

10 minutes ago, SierraKomodo said:

There seems to be a common mentality among security to just not do anything unless they're antags.

Unless the character/player is popular.

[Snake2512]

As a powerful valid hunter and power game extraordinaire who has never really suffered this issue I think the real crux of the problem is: Clarification. It's sort of in the realm of what Contextual was saying.

The Head of Security is the most necessary force in Security for the very simple reason of he is the only person in the department who can actually order someone to do something. As a result he is also the person in the department who will eat the most shit if something goes wrong. Security generally doesn't mess around with crew on extended because a lot of officers might be scared of confrontation, scared of ruining their reputation or just might be uncertain on how to proceed. People lie to Security all the time and even a small bit of doubt can paralyse any bit of action taken because the Officers feel they either lack the authority or the resources to get a conclusion. The only times I ever truly have to handle brig processing as a HoS is because its an arrest based on a he said she said situation and I trust myself to be smart enough to catch someone out in a lie. Most officers do not trust themselves to do this and aren't really willing to risk brigging the wrong dude and being treated as an asshole.

Antags don't suffer from this grey confusion though because antags are usually really loud and really blatant in their regulation violations (it also isn't canon). 

Simply put? Security doesn't like to get aggressive on canon rounds because HRPers care about their reputation. However the moment there is a Head of Security that will happily eat the bullet for arresting the popular person? Then the entire security team will annihilate the dirty regulation breaker. No questions asked.

[AmoryBlaine]

I do a lot of arrests, and a lot of them over smaller things like "hooliganism" or misuse of comms. It's annoying because of the reasons mentioned so far. Rocking the boat is typically bad for your character, which makes playing Sec harder. I specifically didn't act on miscomms during the event because it was an event and people really don't wanna sit in processing for trying to get the ball rolling. Even so, if it weren't an event. I'd still keep away from actually charging the person. Typically saying, "Quiet over comms.", works well enough. If not, you need to make sure you have grounds for the charge, and then carry it out in person so you don't come off badly by saying "You're under arrest." over comms- unless you're trying to wrap the person up in an additional resisting arrest charge, by allowing them the choice of never coming to Sec like you asked.

Overall, the system works fine. But Sec doesn't like being the bad guy, so we don't like to process everyone. Those of us who know how to use the processor, that is.