AmoryBlaine Posted January 31, 2020 Posted January 31, 2020 It doesn't fit. Again, this does not mean it is BAD. It means it's it lacks congruence with the rest of the designs being used. The shading is not the same as that which we have for nearly anything else. 3 minutes ago, Zundy said: You're gonna have to redpill me harder because that unironically seems fine. You have been given visuals. I don't really need to tell you that the shading is not shared between what we have currently have and these sprites. It's visible for you to see. Take a look at all the other fabrics in the picture, none of them have the same shading to them as the new sprite, which once added will- in comparison to what we have- look like shiny plastic, which is not the fault of the sprites, but of where they're being used- which is alongside the rest of our sprites. Spoiler Just now, Zundy said: Like I said, I think this IS matching our quality. Armory's sprites look this good. 3 minutes ago, SatinsPristOTD said: They are. Amory's sprites are on this level, they're just a bit more monotone. This isn't about how good my sprites are, nor how good these sprites are. It's about how well things meld together, how well they obey the same design principals and techniques, so that we remain consistent. We are currently getting resprites for a lot of stuff, so now more than ever do we need to try and figure out what our look and feel should be, and stay with that. Clearly, this stands out, even among the newer sprites.
wowzewow Posted January 31, 2020 Posted January 31, 2020 Alright. However, this won't be an easy add, though. Probably need to make a few more sprite changes too to make a substantial pull request. Because these are, like one or two things. However, if they were like, in a set or something, like a resprite of dominia coats in general, then it would be accepted. I'm not doing this because of any personal bias here, I've tried porting stuff from Bay and Eris myself, and I've ended up doing some more work myself, because it doesn't look very good to hodgepodge different skill levels and artstyles. basically what i'm saying is that by themselves it's going to be a little hard to add them, however if like there was a few more it'd be easier. so it wouldn't be a case of "that one good dominia coat and suit" but instead implementing "a cool set of new dominia clothing" if you catch my drift.
Zundy Posted January 31, 2020 Author Posted January 31, 2020 I always would my dude. I will be sending you shower memes presently.
Zundy Posted January 31, 2020 Author Posted January 31, 2020 It's too late Wezzy....it was always too late...
Carver Posted February 1, 2020 Posted February 1, 2020 These sprites are a cut above anything we have and deserve to be in because of that.
NewOriginalSchwann Posted February 1, 2020 Posted February 1, 2020 These sprites are incredible, and I eagerly await seeing them in-game. I'd especially like to see this style applied to other Dominian coats, but this is way better than anything we have for them right now.
Butterrobber202 Posted February 1, 2020 Posted February 1, 2020 holy shit why is this even a debate, those look fantastic and I’m willing to sacrifice uniformity for such great looking icons.
Doc Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 Wonderful spritework. +1. I don't really see concerns about the sprite 'fitting' as relevant; the sprite is good. It's an improvement. It should be accepted. Our spritebase evolves over time with individual contributions from individual contributors; that's how open-source projects as a whole work, and it's absolutely how our and many other SS13 server codebases work. We should be encouraging that evolution to trend towards the positive, and this is undeniably a step in that direction. The idea that it doesn't 'fit' with the other sprites only means that we should be looking to bring those other sprites up to par with this level of quality; that's never going to happen overnight, or even in the near future, but accepting higher quality sprites is how we progress toward that level of quality. I don't understand the desire to stagnate by refusing to improve without magically transforming the entire spritebase at once.
AmoryBlaine Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Doc said: The idea that it doesn't 'fit' with the other sprites only means that we should be looking to bring those other sprites up to par with this level of quality Okay, great. I'm looking to bring these sprites up to par with these. Sadly, I'm not this individual and cannot replicate their style. Is this individual willing to overhaul the rest of the sprites, or are they just doing a few Dominian sprites? Are they even attempting to keep with what we have, or entirely doing their own thing? 3 hours ago, Doc said: that's never going to happen overnight, or even in the near future Exactly why we should not be doing this. Unless we have a means of actually bringing the quality of sprites up to this, it is only acts to break with the current design. The only person who is close to this style is Brainos. 4 hours ago, Doc said: I don't understand the desire to stagnate by refusing to improve without magically transforming the entire spritebase at once. Stagnation? No. Cohesion? Yes. You want to move to this art style, you don't have this one dude do a few Dominian sprites and then just hope that someone else redoes everything in the next 10 years so that they're on par.
SatinsPristOTD Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 But the slow integration of style is exactly how we started changing the Aurora icons. That's a very strange stance to take, Amory, when you, Brainos and Wheezy are he exact reason why we slowly started changing Aurora sprites into better sprites. It's taken months of slow batches, starting with whatever the spriter felt like working on. Example: Brainos's steak sprites. Half the kitchen dishes aren't on that level, yet we have that steak sprite in now because it's good and should be slowly integrated.
Doc Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 44 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said: Okay, great. I'm looking to bring these sprites up to par with these. Sadly, I'm not this individual and cannot replicate their style. Is this individual willing to overhaul the rest of the sprites, or are they just doing a few Dominian sprites? Are they even attempting to keep with what we have, or entirely doing their own thing? [...] Unless we have a means of actually bringing the quality of sprites up to this, it is only acts to break with the current design. The only person who is close to this style is Brainos. It's not relevant if the individual is willing to overhaul all of our other sprites or, more generally, if we have the current spriting capability to match them. We don't need the entire staircase built before we start taking steps in the right directions. That's not how long-term collaborative projects like this work. Breaking drastically with our current design is only automatically a problem when doing so has no tangible benefit; i.e. the sprites are worse or, at best, roughly the same quality with a drastically different design (a 'side-grade'); but this is not the case with these sprites. There is a tangible benefit because the sprites are really friggen good. 49 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said: Stagnation? No. Cohesion? Yes. This neglects to acknowledge that "maintaining cohesion" with inferior quality by refusing to accept improvement is... stagnation. 50 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said: You want to move to this art style, you don't have this one dude do a few Dominian sprites and then just hope that someone else redoes everything in the next 10 years so that they're on par. This really just seems like you have a drastic misunderstanding of how open-source projects evolve over time. You've literally described exactly how this process works. People contribute higher quality replacements of lower quality aspects and, with time, the quality and/or content of the project grows.
AmoryBlaine Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Doc said: We don't need the entire staircase built before we start taking steps in the right directions. That's not how long-term collaborative projects like this work. This is starting a new staircase. It's not getting us off the ground, it's restarting us with a totally new shading, totally new level of detail. 6 minutes ago, Doc said: Breaking drastically with our current design is only automatically a problem when doing so has no tangible benefit; i.e. the sprites are worse or, at best, roughly the same quality with a drastically different design (a 'side-grade'); but this is not the case with these sprites. There is a tangible benefit because the sprites are really friggen good. The issue here is these stick out greatly. And will until this supposed completion of a staircase fifteen years from now. 7 minutes ago, Doc said: This neglects to acknowledge that "maintaining cohesion" with inferior quality by refusing to accept improvement is... stagnation. Accepting improvement in what sense? How is this an improvement, it has entirely foreign shading and detail levels. That's- again- not building on anything, that's going back to square-one. 8 minutes ago, Doc said: This really just seems like you have a drastic misunderstanding of how open-source projects evolve over time. You've literally described exactly how this process works. People contribute higher quality replacements of lower quality aspects and, with time, the quality and/or content of the project grows. I entirely understand how they work. It's inefficient, and has us without any set aesthetic or design. People do not contribute higher and higher quality work, they contribute subjective work. And doing so in small tiny amounts with no real goal is why we are where we are.
AmoryBlaine Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, SatinsPristOTD said: But the slow integration of style is exactly how we started changing the Aurora icons. That's a very strange stance to take, Amory, when you, Brainos and Wheezy are he exact reason why we slowly started changing Aurora sprites into better sprites. It's taken months of slow batches, starting with whatever the spriter felt like working on. I can't talk for the others. I started with the goal of changing literally all of the clothing sprites so they'd be of comparable quality without standing out from the rest of the sprites. From near day one, that's what I've been working on. That's what I've done so far. So no, I don't think it's a strange stance to ask, "Why would we add stuff that stands out from everything else, and is not even attempting to follow with the rest of the existing works?" It didn't start with me just deciding to do these few and then deciding to another few. It what is most pressing and I am capable of changing. That was Security, because I played Security. Then it was MedSci once I got a grip on a design for them, then the rest. I am nearing the completion of respriting the uniforms. At no point was I contributing work that wasn't also tied to wanting to consolidate an overall design. 1 hour ago, SatinsPristOTD said: Example: Brainos's steak sprites. Half the kitchen dishes aren't on that level, yet we have that steak sprite in now because it's good and should be slowly integrated. Wezzy resprited most all the kitchen food. I assume this included the steak. Brainos decided to change that steak, and has not changed anything else. But he also kept with the overall feel, mostly changing the colouring, and adding some stuff over the top. He didn't change the design of the steak.
Carver Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 Per what I said, being a higher quality should not exclude these sprites. If it's stand out, good, that was clearly the intent of the design. Do not assume that your work shall dictate the sprites from here on out and forever, as this isn't and shall never be AmoryStation.
AmoryBlaine Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Carver said: Per what I said, being a higher quality should not exclude these sprites. If it's stand out, good, that was clearly the intent of the design. Do not assume that your work shall dictate the sprites from here on out and forever, as this isn't and shall never be AmoryStation. I think it's a bit presumptuous, and telling, that you completely overlook the context of me talking about myself and my work to say that I am opposed to this because it doesn't fit with my work. It does, but I've kept from comparing it to my work directly, outside saying it is better than mine.
AmoryBlaine Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 Anyways, the addition of these sprites will go unnoticed past persons such as myself who are cognitive of our designs. Enjoy.
geeves Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/8235
Zundy Posted February 10, 2020 Author Posted February 10, 2020 This thread got epic real fast. I'm aligned with wezzy in that getting a selection of clothes is better to ease in visuals. Cre77 isn't currently making more Domino's Pizza sprites as they're working on other projects so these are all for now. Geeves has made a PR so let's all be friends and kiss each other.
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