Back-to-back Vote Tweaks [FEEDBACK]

[Hepatica]

I think people should always be allowed to vote for what they want to do and play, restricting that doesn't seem useful or beneficial to the server in any way, imo. Like many others said, if majority people want x thing, they should be allowed x thing.

[Melariara]

Just throwing in my two cents here and echoing what has already been said: Let people vote for what they want to vote for.

[Skull132]

As much as I hate deadhour back-to-back extended, and have actively combated against this in my novel year of having adminbus powers. I am uncertain if this is a Good Idea:tm:. As a general tool, it doesn't really solve a general issue. Rounds getting voted back to back in general is a bit lame, ye sure, but it's a temporary issue and will tie down once the players get bored again. Or get tired of whatever mode they ran. But for dealing with back-to-back extended, it's a bit overkill (due to what I mentioned earlier) while remaining somewhat insufficient at addressing the issues at hand.

If the problem is specifically too much extended at specific times, then this can be addressed directly by admin staff intervention, as has been done before; or by affecting other changes. Like more aggressive/dynamic random events, or undoing with the whole concept of gamemodes to begin with :^)

[Cnaym]

14 hours ago, DanseMacabre said:

To get rid of voted extended is to get rid of a gamemode solely devoted to meaningful roleplay - and we are, after all, a roleplay server.

Which is my main issue with extendo itself. We should not need a gamemode devoted to it, there are even rules in place to keep everyone realistic, yet if it's not extended our medical fridge is empty, our warehouse unsorted and our engineers armed. (Please take this as a joke, I know it's not that bad, but there seems to be a different mentality going into antag rounds)

Antags do not exclude meaningful roleplay from a round. We as community decide to.

Not really sure where to point a finger, but the performance of antags and the reaction of crew to it does make me wonder if the "don't play to win" rule, among others, are still in place.

[Kintsugi]

11 minutes ago, Cnaym said:

Which is my main issue with extendo itself. We should not need a gamemode devoted to it, there are even rules in place to keep everyone realistic, yet if it's not extended our medical fridge is empty, our warehouse unsorted and our engineers armed. (Please take this as a joke, I know it's not that bad, but there seems to be a different mentality going into antag rounds)

Antags do not exclude meaningful roleplay from a round. We as community decide to.

Not really sure where to point a finger, but the performance of antags and the reaction of crew to it does make me wonder if the "don't play to win" rule, among others, are still in place.

You misunderstand what meaningful roleplay is. Antags do exclude meaningful roleplay from a round, by virtue of being walking, talking decanonification devices. To have meaningful roleplay - that roleplay must not become a non-entity as soon as the round ends. While roleplay with antagonists can be incredibly fun, it is never going to mean anything after the round ends. Extended is a necessity because it allows the playerbase to go in with a guarantee that everything that happens in that round, unless voided, has long-term meaning.

[Lupo]

12 hours ago, Melariara said:

Just throwing in my two cents here and echoing what has already been said: Let people vote for what they want to vote for.

same.

[Cnaym]

1 hour ago, DanseMacabre said:

While roleplay with antagonists can be incredibly fun, it is never going to mean anything after the round ends.

For your character. That does not make it more / less meaningful or fun on an OOC level, since that is subjective for everyone.

Antags do not mean a round never happened, which is how people misinterpret it recently. Even during raider or merc you usually get 30-50% of a round as antag free.

We are missing a lot of good people during lowpop simply because the cannot stand having to interact with the same three people for two-four hours without anything apart from carp and engineering busy work happening. I do like a good extendo, but the massive amount of bad extended we get and the amount of people we lose (and miss out on really) is a too high price imho to keep the back to back votes.

Even when implented, extendo -> secret extendo -> extendo can and will still happen. Six hours without antags mean we lose a lot of people towards more interesting games.

Don't get me wrong you can make the same arguments for secret, it's probably just that the same six to eight players have been holding the lowpop hostage for long enough that the complaints pilled up ^_^ Maybe put it as test merge or predefine a date for a community vote, to decide whether it is well received or not.

[niennab]

3 hours ago, Cnaym said:

We are missing a lot of good people during lowpop simply because the cannot stand having to interact with the same three people for two-four hours without anything apart from carp and engineering busy work happening.

This statement simply isn't true and can be proved quite easily below.

Here is a screenshot of the manifest 15 minutes into the round. Not bad. A typical roster for any lowpop hour, secret included.

Spoiler

One hour into the round. Look at the vast increase of players, on lowpop extended no less.

Spoiler

Three hours into the round, just as the shuttle was called. More players.

Spoiler

Extended is crucial for learning, character development and creative writing. Secret isn't and never never will be heavy roleplay.

[Sheeplets]

I'm against this change as well but don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been said.

[Scheveningen]

I'd have to agree with Nienna's conclusion. An extended round may start somewhat unpopulated but it almost always fills with additional players as time goes on, just like any other game mode. As I've observed, though, there is still a population of folks that cryo when 1. they don't get antag 2. they don't see or hear of an antag within the first hour. Extended doesn't seem to hemorrhage players in the same fashion, since most who connect to an extended round choose to stay because it is extended.

[MattAtlas]

It's not often that I decide to back down on supporting things, but I'd like to say that this thread has changed my mind. I'm more in line with what Skull says now, in that I'm not sure if this is a good solution for the problem presented.

[Cnaym]

4 hours ago, niennab said:

This statement simply isn't true and can be proved quite easily below.

Here is a screenshot of the manifest 15 minutes into the round. Not bad. A typical roster for any lowpop hour, secret included.

I am watching the current numbers as rather higher than average due to corona.

1. People decide not to join extendo or secret based on personal pref. Both modes on lowpop would profit from this not being the case.

2. Joining a lowpop extendo round late or early does not reflect upon the willingness to play another extendedo round after it. If you got time for two rounds a day and only play half of one because of the mode, we lost on a player already. See Boryas comment on this one.

3. The vote system shows every round that a lot of players do vote "against" extendo. The typical image I get is a vote of roughly 1-2 more for extendo than secret, resulting in almost half of the active voters not getting their mode at all. If I then see a manifest with only 5 names on it, out of 15 voters, I start to question why another extendo had to happen.

4. This idea does not lower the chance for extendo at all. It lowers the chance for extendo happening in a row. One if them is fine, and has people vote every thirty to see if they want to continue the round. The other is actively driving away players, which has together with point three split the already low community of lowpop.

My hopes for this change are that people join both rounds and respect that others want to play a different round type. On the manifest you posted are a couple names I would like to see on secret, while there are a lot missing I would love to have on extendo. Antags do force interaction from time to time, be it with their gimmick, the rest of the crew or just a player you don't see on extendo. This is not something that makes it unable to fly the HRP banner. For that is our community to blame ^_^

Edited June 18, 2020 by Cnaym
Smartphone auto correct strikes a lot today

[geeves]

PR closed, good feedback, thanks for coming everybody. Locking the thread. Discussions of this nature can probably be moved to a general thread or to discord, as people wish, etc.