geeves Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 * The gamemode of the last round can no longer be voted for. Voting for secret unaffected. This prevents the previous round being voted for in the next round, ie, if the previous round was extended, extended will be removed from the vote menu in the current round. The previous round's gamemode is not taken out of the secret rotation, so it can happen again. In that case, it will be removed from the next round's vote menu as well. Feedback and thoughts goes below. Link to comment
Zundy Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 But what if everyone wants to play extended tho? Link to comment
MattAtlas Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, Zundy said: But what if everyone wants to play extended tho? The population in EU time is often completely slaughtered by two extendeds in a row, so, I'd say tough luck. Link to comment
Coalf Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I don't know, can't people just vote a different thing if they want a different thing? Link to comment
Cnaym Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) At first I thought this to be a stupid idea, extendo voters would just leave lowpop so the playercount argument is not that big of a deal. The idea that people have to decide actively whether they want more extendo or not is an improvement imho. We have those back to back rounds because vote out, then voute in extendo again. If I am not mystaken this should extend the duration of a normal extendo rounds, until the people are done with it and decide that another round is needed, instead of "blob ate a wall just restart" I'd however recommend having solars prewired for extendo then (if that can be a thing) since without it people will leave quickly and not be able to play their wanted gamemode due to an engineering mistake or lack of engineers. Something something better antags and people playing secret like extendo instead of gearing up at roundstart. As a passionate uncaring person I like these changes. Best outcome they improve extendo and secret, worst outcome, secret rounds between extendo Could this also yeet meme tower defense votes? Basicly you cannot revote what has failed in a prior vote? Thank you ❤️ Edited June 16, 2020 by Cnaym Link to comment
Seo Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Somehow get the idea that it's supposed to tell people who prefer "extended" game mode to simply gtfo because others are tired of it. But frankly speaking imo if this is to be added it's almost like taking away the whole point of voting. You might as well just remove voting and have system pick it randomly if you want to do it that way. Players vote for what they want to play and they should be allowed to do so regardless if the previous game mode was the same. Let people have the decision what they want to play, rather than removing the freedom of choice. Link to comment
niennab Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) I think this is an incredibly poor decision and only seems to favor people who hate extended. I've found that the reason people vote to end a round is in order to leave and go about their day whilst others are voting to get in. Which means that anyone who is logging on fresh to a new server, ready to get in on the next round will find that the gamemode they want is pulled from them completely. Without even the chance to try. If you want this to work, make it apply to secret and it will force players to not feel as though they have to vote for the winning horse (only voting for secret) over say merc, malf, etc. I however remain completely opposed to this proposal. If people want to vote extended. Let's them vote extended. We have already seen a decrease in extended following the antag draft. Why make it worse? What about when lore devs want to run an event on extended but there was just am extended the round before? Edited June 16, 2020 by niennab Link to comment
Dbrg Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) Quote This prevents the previous round being voted for in the next round, ie, if the previous round was extended, extended will be removed from the vote menu in the current round. I would imagine that, if people don't want back-to-back extended(/merc/whatever), they'll just not vote for it. It's not like only specific people get voting privileges. Quote The population in EU time is often completely slaughtered by two extendeds in a row, so, I'd say tough luck. They very literally choose extended themselves in that case, however. I'd assume (barring staff) they're not compulsive masochists. If you believe that most of the gamemode voting is done by a minority of players, for instance, then I'd say the solution is to make the voting system more obvious/friendly, rather than adding yet more restrictions. I see no value in forcing gamemodes, ever, outside of hosting events. Summarizing: From my point of view, the only valid reason for such a measure is if you believe the majority of players are being forced into gamemodes they don't want to play. Assuming that premise is true, restricting players from voting for the gamemode they want seems entirely nonsensical. Edited June 16, 2020 by Dbrg Link to comment
Wigglesworth Jones Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 To echo what @niennab said, I don't think this is needed. If the current people on the server want to vote extended twice in a row, they should be able to do that. Link to comment
Carver Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Bad idea for aforementioned reasons. If people don't want a mode, then they should vote based on that. This won't change anything but just make more people who'd have potentially stayed for another round leave because their vote suddenly doesn't matter. Link to comment
BoryaTheSlayer Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 To preface: I'm a EU timezone player here who actually enjoys extended. So for the last few months or so, after I wake up, get my breakfast, do my morning routine, I (albeit rarely lately) log onto the server to see how the round goes and potentially join it myself. What I usually see is extended. Which is fine! As I said, I enjoy extended. But then you notice it's about 10 or so people on the manifest. "Oh bummer, that's not a lot of people. I would rather play on high-pop or at least have a round be driven by an antag. Guess I'll wait for the next round." And I wait. And then it's extended again! With basically almost the same people! You may or may not agree with me, but lowpop extended is, in my opinion, some of the worst things to experience on Aurora. And as I said, for the last few months or so, this is almost the only experience I have been getting. While a few people here say that if people don't want a certain roundtype they just won't vote for it, I can't really get behind that simply for the sheer fact that I don't want these gamemodes, yet it's all I get in the time of the day that I can/prefer to dedicate to SS13. Link to comment
Carver Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 That sounds like more of a timezone issue, no? I've had similar issues with being unable to find a good time to play on a server that suited my pop/RT preferences, but I had to simply accept that some times of day just don't have many people. If this system were retained I'd only advise doubling minimum pre-transfer round length. As for lowpop extended, it's far preferable to lowpop antag where it's either 'kill or be killed' or just some Wizard AFKing in the bar after stealing the spare ID. Link to comment
Kaed Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I'm all for this, for the same reasons the people who like extended have - it will cause less chain extended rounds, which is a net plus in my book. Link to comment
niennab Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, BoryaTheSlayer said: But then you notice it's about 10 or so people on the manifest. Personally I've found low pop secret to have the same small pool of people, just a few different faces. Its simply lowpop hours and I don't think we can really do anything other than desperately try to retain any new players from those hours. The same line of reasoning could be applied to a player looking to play extended. Extended also picks up, also. It's slow to start but people trickle in. Edited June 17, 2020 by niennab Link to comment
Snakebittenn Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I don't think it's necessarily a fair suggestion. While lowpop extended might suck, lowpop wizard is like bear crawling naked through hot coals. Let people have doublestended if they like. If you want to disable double extended, disable double secret too. Link to comment
Pratepresidenten Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Seo said: You might as well just remove voting and have system pick it randomly ngl this seems tasty. True RNG so noone can get angry at anyone for voting for something they dont like. The ultimate mystery! Link to comment
Codename: Bear Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Pratepresidenten said: ngl this seems tasty. True RNG so noone can get angry at anyone for voting for something they dont like. The ultimate mystery! I can see a lot of "round failed not enough players ready/selected for x" in a row So naturally I support this Link to comment
Carver Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 33 minutes ago, Pratepresidenten said: ngl this seems tasty. True RNG so noone can get angry at anyone for voting for something they dont like. The ultimate mystery! Removing the vote would indeed solve all issues. If something happens twice in a row, they may scream into the void - and there'd be less people leaving before roundstart because they disliked the vote. For this path to be taken, though, the odds of every mode must be equal. No weighted shit. Link to comment
furrycactus Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I disagree with the proposed change as well, more or less for the same reasons that Nienna has stated. People might not love lowpop extended, but chances are it's only going to see a rise to lowpop vampire, lowpop wizard, and lowpop autotraitor, which also come with issues that are arguably even worse - antags either going entirely unnoticed, or they utterly dominate the station with no resistance because there's simply not enough people to really combat them in much way. Plus, if people want a gamemode, then they should be allowed to vote for that gamemode. If they don't want it, then they can vote for something else. If this system has to be implemented, then make it so that secret can't be voted twice in a row as well; fair's fair. Link to comment
Cnaym Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Carver said: For this path to be taken, though, the odds of every mode must be equal. No weighted shit. Hard to manage, since extended would be opposed to ~10 modes, which on lowpop only 1 or 2 work anyway. We could 50/50 between extendo and secret (with vote) but that would crush highpop. I find the argument that someone wants to join a "fresh" round of extendo really poor. So do I find it rather sad that people do not join secret because antags could show up. We'd have almost double the pop if both sides could just join both modes ^^ My gamer solution? Remove normal extendo. It will happen often enough in secret anyway. Link to comment
Carver Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Removing normal extended would remove a mode that many prefer. I'm going to have to disagree with that heavily, especially as it encourages the behaviour people mentioned of 'playing like it's secret'. Link to comment
Scheveningen Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I am not supportive of this. It is difficult enough to get an entire lobby convinced that extended is the desired game mode. Extended is often only voted when the majority of carry-over players have no intention of doing yet another antagonist round after a very chaotic and stressful round prior to that. If people want a different game mode, they have to vote a different thing to get their thing, as Coalf already mentioned. Link to comment
DanseMacabre Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 To be frank, I think this is at best a pointless PR that does not accomplish anything - I do not often see successful back-to-back votes. At worst, it mostly exists to prevent popular gamemodes from being played as often as the playerbase would like. 2 hours ago, Cnaym said: My gamer solution? Remove normal extendo. It will happen often enough in secret anyway. This is a terrible idea for the server's sake. Voted extended is a necessity for our community - especially when we factor into consideration that it is vital for the sake of canonicity. To get rid of voted extended is to get rid of a gamemode solely devoted to meaningful roleplay - and we are, after all, a roleplay server. Link to comment
The lancer Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Lowpop may have its issues, but everyone should still be able to vote what they want to play. Link to comment
Decepter Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Okay... So it's a plurality voting system. If the Population (I believe this is what the claimed problem is) didn't want extended during the 'dead hour', they'd not vote for it.... Why take away the choice? If you don't want chain extended rounds Vote against them. Rigging the system so some of the player base (who like to play extended during low pop) can't have more than one extended round, when they're the ones who are actually playing is not good. TL:DR If secret gets outvoted, that's because a plurality of players wanted to play something else; taking away that option is not going to help population, you'll only alienate the plurality. Link to comment
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