Player Complaint-HunterRS

[MccRrib]

BYOND Key: MccRrib
Game ID: b9M-cHjg
Player Byond Key/Character name: HunterRS/Edgar Dawnguard
Reason for complaint: Needless exclusion of players from a canon event, disregard for IC orders from CCIA as command staff, metagruding, 
Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? No attempt was made at ahelping, as I was unsure of how to word such a thing, and with the size of the event going on, I had figured it was worth waiting until the round was over to do something about it, 
Approximate Date/Time: 10/24/20 Roughly 12:00 PM CDT-The end of the event in question.

Please forgive me if I come off as overly aggressive or salty, but, I've reached the end of my rope, today was the final straw in the mountain that shattered the camel's back. During today's, (as of right now) canon event, the at-the-time research director, after, as far as I know, was given explicit orders from both the rest of command, and CCIA agents to bring the entirety of the science department (unless the subject team members requested otherwise) EVA on the Clandestine asteroid that the event was centered around, instead of doing this, Dawnguard only brought three other science members Marion Ashworth, a roboticist, Xiao Zemin a scientist, and Msizi Djikstra, another scientist iirc. From what I understand, he also ignored requests from the rest of command, (see below), the CCIA, and his team. These actions entirely prevented several players from interacting with the event in any significant way. The reason this is unacceptable should be obvious, and is indicative of a poor understanding of the IC and OOC duties of a member of command staff. In relation to me, and the character I play, Ian White, I get the impression their motivations behind leaving my character were largely personal. HunterRS has a tendency to frequently voice their negative opinions of my character, which is fine, if you dislike Ian White, that's perfectly okay, I don't play him with the intent to get along with everybody, however, based on the things he's said, how frequently he says them, and the OOCly questionable way he acts towards my character ICly, I have reasons to believe this behavior to be metagrude. I would have less reason to believe a motivator for his actions during the event was a metagrudge were it not for the fact that a member of his team had vouched for and requested my character's presence/inclusion, (said requests were ignored or denied,) and the attached screenshots. If anything, the things that transpired during today's events are a microcosm of the player's behavior as a member of command, which is not a good sign.

Edit: Going to be adding more screenshots over time.

Edit 2: Clarifications on the jobs of chosen team members, grammar fixes.

Edited October 25, 2020 by MccRrib

[ShesTrying]

Hi, myself and @Alberyk will be taking this complaint. Give us a few days, and until then, @HunterRS I'd love to hear your side.

[HunterRS]

Okay this is going to be a response on my phone so I first apologize for any typos or grammer issues with this

1. My Director, Edgar Dawnguard has had multiple issues with Ian White ICly with them not following orders directed from me on not cleaning up an absolutely fifty lab and breaking station regulations. Such has giving force gloves and experimental tech to people without any proper paperwork, on top of others.

2. During the event I was told to take 4-5 scientistists and a few miners. Edgar decided to take two other On station Directors as I was asked for people who had geological experience. These two characters, as directors, would have more experience with it then anyone else in the station. Why would I bring a chemist on a phoron core sample mission?

3. Again. I was asked to bring a small team, and specifically told by CCIA to tell the rest to continue operations as usual. I did not forcefully force people out of the round and picked the most experienced or people who said they had phoron experience. 

4. I will agree that my OOC salt for Ian is high, but I isolate IC and OOC whenver I play no matter who I play, and IC Edgar has have dozens of unprofessional and borderline IR worthy incidents from Ian

5. Multiple times I have also been informed of what Ian has done post rounds when I am not around, adding to Edgars ever growing distrust of Ian in all manners across the board

I would like whoever was the CCIA agent during the event to please confirm that they never asked for the FULL team. Just a small team

Edit 1. Trying to get everyone organized with a department of about a dozen people and also listening to ccia in my office and trying to also organize with command is no easy task. Research was by far one of the biggest departments that event and chat was all over the place so keeping up was a pain. So confusion between me and ccia happened a lot. But I had no intent to silence anyone from the event. Only want told to pick a small team and picked the most experienced people either A. In their records or B. What I have seen them do, the two directors (as said eariler) would be more experienced then anyone else due to two reasons that made me make the decision. 1. We had no xenoarchs and no one has experience in their records in that. 2. They would be experienced in a slight amount of xenoarch stuff, which is better then 90% of the department

Edit 2. There is multiple other people who share the same frustration on Ian white Icly and OOCly. I will not name names to not bring them in unless asked but an example of this ICly is when I played my Warden we had to watch White after he tried to buy a firearm, walked all the way to the brig with it without a permit, then when we denied the permit he said it was for scientific use. A chemist should not be doing tests with firearms when other people who are weapon scientists are on the station at the same time. On top of this all the server manifest has Ian hate/despises Edgar while Icly Edgar has given Ian multiple chances and has been proved of Ians hostile attitude toward edgar multiple times

Edited October 25, 2020 by HunterRS

[Vinni.Dragon]

Alright, I wasn't sure if I could or should post to this topic since I was not explicitly invited to, but I really felt like I should and wanted to share my piece in this situation. 

I play Charlotte, the IPC Xenobiologist, and was playing her during the canon round in question. I believe that the issue with this situation extends beyond just IC and OOC hated for Ian White, because myself and other scientists were also missing out. 

Edgar Dawnguard, when asked or referred to repeatedly over the science channel or in person, directly or indirectly, did not clearly communicate what was going to happen with the rest of the department. This lack of communication was found to be incredibly frustrating - especially knowing he was, in HunterRS' own words, told to let us know to continue operations as usual. He did not do this. 

It doesn't matter if CCIA explicitly said that they only wanted a SMALL team, because that information stopped at Edgar and did not make it to the rest of the department who were left displaced onto a makeshift station wishing they could just go and cryo already.

Also, the point comes up of the amount of communications he had to deal with, organising with command, science, and CCIA. I may be wrong, but is there not an extra Research Director's headset in the office for this exact type of scenario? And if so, would it not be sensible for the director, a member of command, to know this and pick one of the two other members of science present who are also research directors to give this to in order to better organise your own responsibilities? That way nobody gets told, "You have special orders from CCIA," and then left behind with no communication to stand around for most of the round, and then begrudgingly pick up trash and do construction. If you wouldn't bring a chemist on an EVA mission, why would you bring a Xenobiologist to do construction?

A lot of what happened that round really rubbed me the wrong way, and I don't think I could name a single other member of science I was with that was happy about this lack of communication, and happy about being left out. I understand and sympathize that Research Director - or any command role, for that matter - is incredibly stressful and quite high-intensity in situations like this. Especially when the chat moves at two miles a minute. But I believe that that is simply no excuse for someone with a fully approved command whitelist. I feel like any member of command really should know better.

[Faris]

For clarification, I am not handling this. I am posting my perspective as a member of this community present during this event round and interactions with the player over the years.

tl;dr at the end.

 

From what I recall and based on what others shared with me, the Director was supposed to bring 4-5 people from science with preference to people with expertise in geology and 2-3 miners to assist. From what I saw and heard, this was not the case, both in numbers and in the preferred expertise. It is my belief that there is very little distinction between the player HunterRS and the character Edgar Dawnguard, so any hate from the player transfers to be the hate of the character. This specific event seems to highlight this from what I've seen plus their hyper focusing on only bringing the people they liked and ignoring the people they disliked, the latter part seems to have unfortunately also included people they were not very familiar with. 

 

I'm going to cite some problematic behavior from the past since this does not feel like a first time incident nor an isolated incident.

Your first approved application at the time, myself and a few others even supported it. However, it led to this. 

 

So your whitelist is stripped and then you make five whitelist applications which get denied for a number of reasons. Last one was denied by me to which you threw a staff complaint. I have no issue with the staff complaint itself but the continued attitude where you disregard feedback from others and then treated the verdict on the complaint as "you knew nothing would happen" which is a pattern of you never believing you're in the wrong despite your public apologies.

 

Still, benefit of doubt was given once more. You adhered to the whitelist application feedback which later became a condition which took you five applications and a staff complaint to adhere to.

 

Even then people still had a negative perception of you. Your CCIA application would've have still likely been denied had you not redacted it.

 

 

Tl;dr: This case seems like both a case of metagrudge and preferring involving the player/character friends contrary to CCIA instructions. The character and player are essentially the same, so what the character hates, the player hates. You don't seem receptive to feedback and likely not genuine when you apologize. This is my perception with the player which is not based on an isolated incident, but incidents over the years. They're either aware of their conduct or not, both of which is not good.  

 

[HunterRS]

In counter to Vinnie.

Yes I did say to continue operations as normal multiple times over science radio. Multiple times. Chat was so chaotic with the amount of people and when science was grouped up at the actual place with no radio, i said again to the grouped science team. You were not there.

To counter abo. 

When i asked for the team, i checked through the records for ANYTHING of anyone having geological expierence. There was nothing. So he picked the most experienced characters he knew, the two current directors. I couldn't get the miners cause i was trying to get so much otherwise planned and ready.

And to counter your other arguments. If you are going to continue to pull issues that you have had with me for years. If I have learned one thing from playing this server for about 5 years. Its the fact that isolating characters is vital. Granted some characters share a few morals of mine, like my diona warden is a historian who just talks about history. Or my resident will not hesitate to slap someone to knock then out of it.

And abo. During that whitelist time was a mess of a life for me. When I look back at it I realize the stupidity of that situation and apologize for that mess I caused. If you want more proof on how people change, look at me and schev. We used to hate each other but now we talk normally. People change, things change. Please stop using stuff from my bad past

In conclusion: I did actually communicate it multiple times and have changed my characters multiple times over the past years. And looking back at things that happened when I was in high school and still a mess isn't the best light. It was when I was garbage at playing characters and learning and playing multiple ttrpgs has taught me multiple things on how to isolate it. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by HunterRS

[Scheveningen]

I was present for this round as the CCIA's escort. As I had an ERT headset, I was listening to pretty much every comm-net. The director was blamed for having sent the shuttle to/fro but the reality is that didn't happen, the shuttle was being rushed and sent by admin intervention (at least twice, in fact), as I took the helm on the second go personally and yet the shuttle was sent remotely. The AI was not given instruction to send the shuttle so I eliminated them as a possible culprit. The director should not be blamed for that incident in particular.

As for what happened in-round in terms of specifics, it's pretty clear it was chaotic, laggy, frustrating and there was a feeling of pointlessness and helplessness from the command staff for that shift, given the 90-100 players that were sending the server straight to hell. Expecting events of this kind of scale to go right is fruitless, seeing as how the game is barely playable and OOC frustrations tend to very quickly reveal themselves when basic in-game inputs fail to function due to the server constantly being on a timer whenever there is a high enough population, which usually starts at 75 and higher.

I want to point out from the above screenshots that there was clear and evident antagonism expressed by the various command staff members toward each other, but most of all the person who was being a problem that round was the Skrell captain who was doing very little to micro-manage and give specific instructions when there is a Central Command representative on-station. A lot of the inter-departmental BS could've been straight up dealt with had the captain been actually doing anything beyond making meek suggestions as to what could be done as opposed to what should be done. Moreso that the infighting shouldn't have happened period, but it did.

In regards to the integrity of command whitelists, I don't actually think anyone -- even the captain -- was doing anything so wrong that their whitelist should be called into question or stripped. That round was a rare event occurrence where the server is completely overwhelmed by population, making it an incredibly difficult feat to manage anything well even with an understanding of what to do. Expecting the optimal to happen during the worst of situations is a very toxic expectation to hold of other command staff, as it will simply make them not want to play at all during these kinds of rounds or any kind of round at all. Let's not make a point to be so vile to each other that we try to drive each other away from the server, please.

I will also vouch for the character of Hunter (in the 'who they are as a person'/maturity sense), since I was mentioned in that regard. Since their time away from the server initially they definitely have gotten better, the worst attribute they have is that they get defensive when attacked. But I mean, who doesn't, so it's sort of a moot point.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Scheveningen

[Butterrobber202]

Yeah, I’m here as the Captain of the round.

It was a mess. I was lagging the entire time and couldn’t hardly get anything organized. I had to order multiple people multiple times to get them to go places, and with all the shit happening around me, I kept missing pieces of information and was always behind.

 

anyways, in response to the complaint proper. I personally do not have any knowledge on Dawnguard because I rarely play Science and I’ve only played on the same Command team briefly with him outside the event round. But, Scheven is 100% correct in saying the shuttle sending was not the fault of the Director, an admin was slapping the console to get this moving along.

I genuinely believe the round was an awful, broken mess with to many moving parts to be reasonably managed by anyone. The chat was moving at a lighting fast pace, communication felt like it was always a minute behind the clock.

Additionally, the Director’s small team choice was likely my fault. I clearly misunderstood the event instructions and asked Command to send small teams first and then we could ferry everyone over after, and it was only after alberyk yelled at me that I just said, “Get on the ship and go.”

[Happy_Fox]

It's incredibly difficult to play a member of command when receiving instructions from several places and also having to manage the expectations and experience of your staff - and that's assuming these things are all happening in a familiar environment without technical issues caused by the server. This event was both focused around an off-site location and with considerable technical problems that made any sort of communication frustrating in the least. Chaotic is an understatement regarding the entire trip to the asteroid from all departments. I was witness to multiple incidents where security officers flat out failed to correctly convey information to the Head of Security - giving conflicting indications of research actions - which then caused additional confusion to make the situation less understandable.

Considering how utterly chaotic the entire situation was both from an IC and OOC perspective I personally would be amazed if anyone could've done the director's duty without irritating people. I certainly wouldn't have been able to. As others have said there was a strong emphasis for everyone to transfer to the asteroid as soon as possible which created a poor environment for meaningful RP due to the sheer crowded nature of communications and trying to navigate an entirely new environment without any proper expectations.

[Alberyk]

Hi, since it seems that a lot of people are posting, I will make this clear; only post if you have something to add to the complaint, your opinion on how this should be solved or in regards to the involved parties is not enough, sorry.

Quote

Only post if involved or you have something to contribute. If you are not a moderator or administrator and/or were not involved in the incident(s) referred to, you may not post or reply to a complaint regarding said incident(s).

 

[HunterRS]

For one, I do not think they are giving their opinion on what should happen, I think they are trying to tell what happened from the perspective of other command members in this round and even accepting the blame of some of the issues mccrrib brought up in the initial coplaint, unlike abo who only restated the previously stated information that was said by mccrrib and then decided to bring evidence of an old issue I had years ago. 

The reason I can safely deny that it is old is that I have multiple other characters who are different then I initially stated. Using old things in a complaint that has no part of this current complaint should not be used and if abo has an issue with me. To make a separate complaing and not try to tack on to a ongoing one.

Tl;dr not voting, actual points of view. And using years old issues I had with myself and players to try to push a complaint you have no part in being part of.

 

(Typed on phone so apologies for any issues)

[MccRrib]

I've had an extensive conversation with the subject player since I wrote this complaint, they've apologized for what happened, and have expressed willingness to work on it going forward, with that being said, I'd like to request this be locked/archived, thank you.

[Alberyk]

Closing this then.