Remove AI from being able to be traitor

[Hepatica]

I don't understand why we allow AI to be traitor when we've removed MALF. It just causes the same shit that got MALF removed to happen, the only difference is we don't have to deal with code delta.

[Alberyk]

Traitor AI's don't have 1/3 of the tools that a malf ai had, like exploding apcs, borging people, sending cc announcements, and getting combat borgs. I don't really think they cause the same shit that got malf removed because they don't have the same power.

[Susan]

Traitor AIs hijack the round. They were disabled prior to the AI whitelisting, and whitelisting will not solve this inherent issue. Multiple parts of the station have to direct their attention to deal with the AI, depriving other antagonists of an ability to craft a narrative.

[Carver]

34 minutes ago, Susan said:

Traitor AIs hijack the round. They were disabled prior to the AI whitelisting, and whitelisting will not solve this inherent issue. Multiple parts of the station have to direct their attention to deal with the AI, depriving other antagonists of an ability to craft a narrative.

To the contrary, all that attention focused on the AI creates a fantastic opening for other antagonists. While traitor AIs may be a little questionable, I am never upset by them drawing attention if I have some clever goal that can take advantage of that.

[Susan]

A fantastic opening to do what? Stealthily steal things that involve no one? Do an objective to pat themselves on the back at the end of the round? That is not the purpose of an antagonist. It is to craft a compelling narrative, which one cannot do if the spotlight is being hogged by the AI venting half the station. It's antics are just as liable to kill antags as crew, as well.

[DatSamTho]

38 minutes ago, Susan said:

Traitor AIs hijack the round. They were disabled prior to the AI whitelisting, and whitelisting will not solve this inherent issue. Multiple parts of the station have to direct their attention to deal with the AI, depriving other antagonists of an ability to craft a narrative.

Can't any literally antagonist do that? That's not exclusive to the AI, and as far as I'm aware, traitor AIs do have AOOC and can work together with the other antags. 

[Carver]

4 minutes ago, Susan said:

A fantastic opening to do what? Stealthily steal things that involve no one? Do an objective to pat themselves on the back at the end of the round? That is not the purpose of an antagonist. It is to craft a compelling narrative, which one cannot do if the spotlight is being hogged by the AI venting half the station. It's antics are just as liable to kill antags as crew, as well.

To do something without the full eyes of Security and Command on them. Without a distraction, you must reasonably assume that the entire Security department is going to be a problem.

[Pratepresidenten]

I want to know what happened that was so awful that it warranted a removal suggestion instead of bringing an issue up with the AI whitelist team.

Which AI performed so atrociously that the round was absolutely ruined beyond any recovery. Please come to my DMs and share this horror story so that the AI in question can be evaluated.

If the argument is that they steal the spotlight, I will be greatly annoyed as any Traitor McJoe can steal the spotlight with a radio announcement and a couple of welderbombs, doing more damage than any traitor AI could ever hope for without cyborg assisted help.

[ImmortalRedshirt]

While I do not support this suggestion at all, I'd like to point out that this post was made during said round with the roundstart traitor AI, instead of immediately following the round. The rules state that players must "avoid discussing events of the current round in OOC", and while the round has long since passed, the presence of a traitor AI was an event in the round, and this forum is an OOC means of public communication.

[Roostercat]

12 minutes ago, ImmortalRedshirt said:

While I do not support this suggestion at all, I'd like to point out that this post was made during said round with the roundstart traitor AI, instead of immediately following the round. The rules state that players must "avoid discussing events of the current round in OOC", and while the round has long since passed, the presence of a traitor AI was an event in the round, and this forum is an OOC means of public communication.

This is irrelevant given Hepatica has not stated anything regarding anything that happened in a specific round.

[Cnaym]

7 hours ago, Susan said:

A fantastic opening to do what? Stealthily steal things that involve no one? Do an objective to pat themselves on the back at the end of the round? That is not the purpose of an antagonist

Nailed the issue. Play to win and everyone loses. Funnily enough I have treated my traitor AI rounds as the rules suggest and handpicked a couple of people that had nothing else to do to involve in my little side story. So far had no complaints with that. The intensity of a traitor AI is dependant on the player not on the tools a malf had. The fact that you can role traitor AI so reliably is because nobody else wants to play antag anymore, for which threads such as this are responsible.

Instead of reporting it to the whitelist team or having it solved through a regular a help this intro kindly declares it all to be "the same shit" which is not really encouraging.

[Hepatica]

13 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

I want to know what happened that was so awful that it warranted a removal suggestion instead of bringing an issue up with the AI whitelist team.

Which AI performed so atrociously that the round was absolutely ruined beyond any recovery. Please come to my DMs and share this horror story so that the AI in question can be evaluated.

If the argument is that they steal the spotlight, I will be greatly annoyed as any Traitor McJoe can steal the spotlight with a radio announcement and a couple of welderbombs, doing more damage than any traitor AI could ever hope for without cyborg assisted help.

Never said any AI didn't anything like that, I just figured if we removed malf for a reason, I'm surprised we allow traitor AI, though Alb makes a good point

16 hours ago, Alberyk said:

Traitor AI's don't have 1/3 of the tools that a malf ai had, like exploding apcs, borging people, sending cc announcements, and getting combat borgs. I don't really think they cause the same shit that got malf removed because they don't have the same power.

I actually assumed they were still able to explode apcs and send CC announcements due to something that happened on a prior shift with a traitor AI days ago. If they aren't able, that's fine.

7 hours ago, Cnaym said:

Instead of reporting it to the whitelist team or having it solved through a regular a help this intro kindly declares it all to be "the same shit" which is not really encouraging.

I actually meant to say it encourages the same shit rather then IS all the same shit, but such is life. Again, no one did anything to, yet, to warrant an ahelp or a whitelist strip.

 

10 hours ago, ImmortalRedshirt said:

While I do not support this suggestion at all, I'd like to point out that this post was made during said round with the roundstart traitor AI, instead of immediately following the round. The rules state that players must "avoid discussing events of the current round in OOC", and while the round has long since passed, the presence of a traitor AI was an event in the round, and this forum is an OOC means of public communication.

By all means, feel free to show me or an admin where I mentioned any OOC information about an on going round in this thread. Nice try though lol

 

 

Anyway, I'm fine with it not being removed with what Alb pointed out.

[Peppermint]

Been enjoying traitor AI, honestly.  I don't support this at all, given anyone messing up/breaking rules is just asking for trouble given the whitelist. 

[Garnascus]

On 30/04/2021 at 19:28, Carver said:

To the contrary, all that attention focused on the AI creates a fantastic opening for other antagonists.

This is the correct answer. As someone who has antagged a lot i LOVE when the AI starts doing spooky stuff. Lets me get away with all the nefarious stuff i need without people breathing down my neck. Traitor AIs cant blow up the station or explode APCs, they are fine as they are. 

[NerdyVampire]

Playing a traitor AI I can see how I have the potential to hog the spotlight, but so far I don't think I have done something like that and I don't plan to. I try hard to identify other antags before I do anything (not talk to, just knowing), and I am rarely opposed to aiding them if they ask for it.