Re-add Nurse back to medical.

[Star Dust]

Recently after getting back into medical, I noticed a lot of changes for one, alot of medical jobs were removed and I was informed due to it causing too much confusion and way too many arguments which is understandable! But I'm here to say that the roles of medical have became way to narrowed down now, to the point that all there really is for the actual medical tending is medical interns which are meant to be seen as Green Horns who don't know what they're doing, physician which are meant for people who oocly and Icly know enough about medical to do bad stuff to people by accident, and surgeons which are people who mostly focus on the surgical part of medical. But with the physician you have to learn and do a lot of things, me who loves to play medical but has very little interest in doing surgical is kinda forced into that role and some others might as well feel this way. But say if we re-added a nurse or something similar it could be a fun middle ground between a medical intern and a physician, being skilled enough icly to do most that a physician can but not having to worry about doing the surgical rp, and not just that but forgetting a key part of medical rp, recovery! A nurse's job is often to offer medical treatment to less serious injuries while also doing the more time consuming task of looking over patients, something that a physician shouldn't be doing in the first place. 

 

I know this is sorta a block of text, and not very skillfully formatted but if you can read through the eye sore that is that block, I hope you can understand my reasoning for wanting to bring back the Nurse job.

[greenjoe]

there was a duplicate post here that was locked, but it received some positive feedback.

as for myself, I also agree that nurses should be re-added, like others have said, they bring good RP opportunities, and like you said, a good middle ground

[Faye <3]

Play a physician who doesn't know how to do surgery. No one will force you. A physician /can/ do some surgeries, but does not have to. Nothing keeps you from doing recovery RP on a physician, intern or surgeon, also.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Faye <3

[Shenaanigans]

The reasoning behind nurse being removed was to clean up the job bloat in general, since we had a lot of alt-titles with no clearly defined mechanical differences or realms of expertise. I do understand that nurse and physician are very different roles from a RL perspective, but in game there just isn't enough mechanical basis to necessitate it. Given we're a HRP server you can absolutely flavor specializations into your physician character to be more of a support job and take it upon yourself to RP in that way.

It's like how "scientist" is such a hugely varied category that it's almost mindblowing to make it a single job, but in game it allows for a general amount of access that you can flavor how you want ICly.

[Lmwevil]

I think that surgeon and phys should be merged then we can have some sort of nurse role and a generalized doctor role, that's my hot take - until then we do not need a need a nurse role

[Lordnesh]

7 minutes ago, Lmwevil said:

I think that surgeon and phys should be merged then we can have some sort of nurse role and a generalized doctor role, that's my hot take - until then we do not need a need a nurse role

Honestly. With how a lot of surgeons behave, I don't have a problem with this suggestion.

[Carver]

34 minutes ago, Lmwevil said:

I think that surgeon and phys should be merged then we can have some sort of nurse role and a generalized doctor role, that's my hot take - until then we do not need a need a nurse role

If you want a real spicy take, I'd just go back to the classics: Pharmacist, Physician, Nurse (and obviously CMO and the learner role). No nonsense, just 3 clean and defined core roles.

[greenjoe]

14 minutes ago, Carver said:

If you want a real spicy take, I'd just go back to the classics: Pharmacist, Physician, Nurse (and obviously CMO and the learner role). No nonsense, just 3 clean and defined core roles.

that seems like a decent idea, though keeping psych too of course, though that's kinda separated from the rest of med anyway.

[Carver]

12 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

that seems like a decent idea, though keeping psych too of course, though that's kinda separated from the rest of med anyway.

Psych is so separated that I'd honestly forgotten it exists. Pretend that I'd thrown it into the 'auxiliary pile' with CMOs and learner role that I had put into parentheses.

[Marlon P.]

I remember nurses were uncommon but were a good rung up the ladder of expertise and department knowledge. There's so much to medical and the consequences for not knowing something in your job description will make people mad at you. So being a physician RPing as a nurse usually makes things hostile.

I usually like when roles are consolidated but with medical i think having a mid-teir role would be very good.

[Roostercat]

On 24/07/2021 at 18:32, Shenaanigans said:

The reasoning behind nurse being removed was to clean up the job bloat in general, since we had a lot of alt-titles with no clearly defined mechanical differences or realms of expertise. I do understand that nurse and physician are very different roles from a RL perspective, but in game there just isn't enough mechanical basis to necessitate it. Given we're a HRP server you can absolutely flavor specializations into your physician character to be more of a support job and take it upon yourself to RP in that way.

It's like how "scientist" is such a hugely varied category that it's almost mindblowing to make it a single job, but in game it allows for a general amount of access that you can flavor how you want ICly.

I do not consider 'bloat' a valid reason to not add something. I believe the Nurse role would add some much needed Variety, as with just Physicians and Surgery, medical RP right now is all very samey. A nurse perspective would likely help with this a lot. With science there are so many different areas of it, and so many mechanical things to do, that flavoring it with one role is really easy. But medical is much more mechanically restricted, so just flavoring them as doing something else is really not viable. Putting specializations into your character that are not mechanical is a one way track to being disliked for refusing to do certain things your job is supposed to do.

[Shenaanigans]

14 minutes ago, Roostercat said:

I do not consider 'bloat' a valid reason to not add something. I believe the Nurse role would add some much needed Variety, as with just Physicians and Surgery, medical RP right now is all very samey. A nurse perspective would likely help with this a lot. With science there are so many different areas of it, and so many mechanical things to do, that flavoring it with one role is really easy. But medical is much more mechanically restricted, so just flavoring them as doing something else is really not viable. Putting specializations into your character that are not mechanical is a one way track to being disliked for refusing to do certain things your job is supposed to do.

I get that people are worried about OOC backlash to limiting themselves on what's expected of Physicians, but honestly what parts of gameplay is a Nurse going to refrain from that people could get mad about? Surgery should never be innately expected since we have Surgeons for that very purpose and, even when Nurse was still a role that I myself played, I did all the same things that a Physician did-- performing scans, administering medicine, transporting crew to the ICU/surgery rooms as necessary. Nothing about spawning in as a Nurse felt different mechanically than doing so as a Physician, besides the RP aspect that I independently enforced on myself to step back when there were Physicians around and instead assist them with what they were doing. Something you can do without a different title.

[Roostercat]

32 minutes ago, Shenaanigans said:

I get that people are worried about OOC backlash to limiting themselves on what's expected of Physicians, but honestly what parts of gameplay is a Nurse going to refrain from that people could get mad about? Surgery should never be innately expected since we have Surgeons for that very purpose and, even when Nurse was still a role that I myself played, I did all the same things that a Physician did-- performing scans, administering medicine, transporting crew to the ICU/surgery rooms as necessary. Nothing about spawning in as a Nurse felt different mechanically than doing so as a Physician, besides the RP aspect that I independently enforced on myself to step back when there were Physicians around and instead assist them with what they were doing. Something you can do without a different title.

Physicians can still do surgery to an extent, and there are not always surgeons around. Nowadays medical is actually a tad empty, in fact. From an RP standpoint Nurses would likely be handling aftercare and the like, which is more or less just explaining what happened, answering questions etc. with a different perspective than a physician would give. Otherwise the role of assistance is a lot more valuable than one thinks at a glance. A nurse can help in surgery, doing CPR and medications or the like, freeing up actual physicians to do things with other patients, so the entire medical team is not too busy with a single patient.

[Peppermint]

Still support this. It adds RP value and a way for folks to entirely avoid doing surgery if they don't want to, which is actually pretty common. The med pop took a huge dip after the removal of alt names like this and I don't really thing we've gained anything from its lack.

[greenjoe]

well.. some bad news
after asking a maintainer, they're rather against this, so looks like there is little to no chance of this ever happening

[Roostercat]

I doubt one person has the final say over the matter unless they are a Headdev or something. Plus I'd like to know the actual WHY if that is the case. I see no real reason Nurse shouldn't be added in.

[Roostercat]

As for them having an overlap with physicians, that is not the point. At this point there isn't a lot other jobs are going to do mechanically unless we actually get new mechanics. The point here is ROLEPLAY variety. Medbay players vanished in droves after the alt titles were removed because, at least in my opinion, physician and surgeon generally blend and get rather boring roleplay wise after so long. They have the same perspectives.

[Caelphon]

I really don't see how "Nurse" is going to essentially re-add the catastrophe that was 300 alt titles for those in medical. This could be a role on its own, and would be far more useful I think. 

[greenjoe]

though a big question for readding nurse would be
how would it be added?
extra slots into medical seems like a big no so other ways would have to be thought of

[Cnaym]

Sad state of affairs that having alt titles to promote roleplay is considered bloat on an HRP server, just my hot take.

Just throw such alt titles into the learning roles, unlimit their slots and be done with it.

[OffRoad99]

26 minutes ago, Cnaym said:

Just throw such alt titles into the learning roles, unlimit their slots and be done with it.

I partially disagree with this.
Make it a separate role from Intern, or else you'll soon find unexperienced roleplayers mistaking Nurse for a learning role.

[greenjoe]

49 minutes ago, OffRoad99 said:

Make it a separate role from Intern, or else you'll soon find unexperienced roleplayers mistaking Nurse for a learning role.

yeah having it be an alt title of intern is a bad idea

but making it a separate role is an issue cause that'd be adding more people to medical

[Cnaym]

I would even make atmos tech the learning role of engineering tbh.

These roles are played by new people and experienced roleplayers alike and say nothing about the OOC skill level of folks. Anyone willing to learn can play any role, for medical the learning role mostly is surgeon because of the detailed wiki and you can really tell by how many new surgeons we used to get ^_^

I don't even mean that in a bad way, but by having it an alt title of the learner role you can roleplay a new nurse or someone with 200 years of experience just how you like it.

[Roostercat]

3 hours ago, greenjoe said:

though a big question for readding nurse would be
how would it be added?
extra slots into medical seems like a big no so other ways would have to be thought of

If more slots is a hard no, it should be a physician alt title. Given Nurse was always the easier to understand one and didnt contribute that much to the problems the millions of other alt titles gave, I don't think it would be that much of an issue.

[Lordnesh]

Physician currently has four slots. I would suggest either making it a physician alt title, or take two slots from physician. Personally, I feel that making it an alt title will do the trick.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Lordnesh