[Resolved] Player Complaint - XanderDox, poor Head of Staff play

[Jennalele]

BYOND Key: aimlessAnalyst/Jennalele

Game ID: bMr-dAeZ particularly, however, this is a LONG standing issue.

Player Byond Key: XanderDox

Staff involved: Alberyk

Reason for complaint: Absolutely terrible Command play, refusal to progress rounds for antags, very similar characters, and a slew of other bull.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yes, but nothing was done. To complaints we go.

Approximate Date/Time: This has been ongoing for a long-ass time.

Alright. I'll start with the general.

I'm honestly kind of sick of playing Command when Xander is around. Every character I have seen is a general copy of the same "holier-than-thou" attitude, "my word is the law", and generally being incredibly obtuse and in-the-way. This is by far /not/ the first time I have witnessed conflicts straight up shut down (or worse, made even worse) by Jester Stamos barging his crotch into the midst of things and trying to strong-arm everyone into his "Nope, we do this my way, I am the captain and everyone else can fuck off" attitude.

That aside.

This round was in and by far the worst round I've ever bloody played on Aurora. To the point I had to step back, breathe, and remember why I even bother.

So. It's heist. Right? Our gimmick is the whole "Runaway synth" shebang. I get to be the synth. I get teleported onto the station near arrivals, in absolutely shit condition. I've had one of the heisters actually remove one of my arms beforehand, gave myself an assload of burn damage, you know, made myself look as beat-up and broken as I was supposed to be for the gimmick. And things are going smoothly at first. Get some people's attention, a borg or two. They start trying to patch me up a little. Then the heisters start talking on the radio, and ask if a robot showed up here. Stamos asks them what they want to do with it.

I'm not sure what happened between here and the next two minutes, because I was shuffled off to Robotics, and didn't have a headset to hear comms. So as I'm being repaired, I'm explaining my story, ICly, to a cyborg and the roboticist, and the warden, Adolph. Suddenly, the Captan bursts in and announces that he's giving me back to the heisters. This strikes me as odd, for multiple reasons:

1: The damages the IPC had taken. They were immense. Incredibly immense. About-to-be-scrapped immense, two steps from exploding into bolts. And it was terrified. In fact, it had repeatedly claimed that the heisters weren't its legal owners, that they were trying to scrap it. All identifying information had been forcibly ripped out of the IPC- Memory banks, half it's tag was scoured away, it looked like it had escaped a chop shop, which it had.

2: There was no way for the heisters to accurately prove ownership at this point, as they hadn't docked. The Captain was taking their shaky word as god's written law, even though all they had apparently given was the IPC's name, which anyone could have seen from glancing at their tag.

Despite the people in robotics and the IPC itself trying to explain what had happened, and that they shouldn't give the IPC up, Jester really didn't seem to care. In fact, when I mentioned in LOOC that this would pretty much end the round, I got this beautiful gem:

 

	Line 2908: [18:49:29] bMr-dAeZ OOC: (LOCAL) Jester Stamos/XanderDox : I am not a government employee and have no responsbility to enforce the law upon external factors or defend your rights.
Line 2939: [18:50:00] bMr-dAeZ OOC: (LOCAL) Jester Stamos/XanderDox : I have no obligation to abandon my character for the sake of your game??? My character is doing what he would do, the logical thing.
Line 2951: [18:50:13] bMr-dAeZ OOC: (LOCAL) Jester Stamos/XanderDox : If you weren't a synth it'd be different, but you choose to be a literal piece of property with zero rights
Line 2980: [18:50:34] bMr-dAeZ OOC: (LOCAL) Jester Stamos/XanderDox : I'm keeping it going in my own way.
Line 2990: [18:50:45] bMr-dAeZ OOC: (LOCAL) Jester Stamos/XanderDox : I have no responsibility to serve antags.

 

This, in my belief, is wrong. Stamos was very clearly attempting to just get this over with in the quickest and least-hassled way he possibly could, and mentioned it over radio several times, not really caring for whether or not the IPC really was legally theirs. In fact, even after I ICly suggested simply keeping my brain with them and turning it in to the mendell police to be PROPERLY handled, he said no, in favour of handing me back to the antags 5 minutes later.

In fact, multiple times, Xander attempted to shut down the round. The first was when he got in between the heisters, security and the people trying to save me, and simply threw me at the heisters. Admin intervention was required to keep the round going; Alberyk spawned carp to keep us inside, and then made several of the protesters Revolutionaries in an attempt to overthrow the captain.

 

Line 3591: [18:57:31] bMr-dAeZ SAY: XanderDox/(Jester Stamos) : (Ceti Basic) It is not my job to enforce the law, or property rights of non-NanoTrasen property.

 

Imagine the fallout if this got out into the public? What if they had actually been pirates? "NanoTrasen Captain accidentally hands over a $3000 machine to pirates because he didn't want to deal with the stress of having actual obligations!"

It isn't just this round, either. Xander has made a regular habit out of being the most obtuse, difficult to work with head of staff that I've ever played with, and honestly, when half of command groans or laments when they see his characters join, there's a serious sign that something's wrong and needs to change.

I think that Xander needs to understand that it is ABSOLUTELY the job of command to help keep a round going, and that shutting down antags out of sheer "I don't want to deal with it" laziness is unacceptable.

[UnknownMurder]

Yesterday, as a cultist, I spoke to the Internal Affairs Agent (Catnip) regarding the Captain's punishment. The IAA did find the Captain's (Stamos) actions to have been wrong doing, the Captain had terminated a crew member's contract without contacting the Central Command. The Captain did not to respond to hear me rambling about how the punishment was cruel. (Though, I attempted to murder an officer) Then, would immediately order me to be Held until Transfer almost without a medical treatment from the Chief Medical Officer in which Auralia stepped in and demanded the Captain to let me go to the Medical Bay. (Marcus Halloway as witness)

Take it as you would.

I do see many times that people refuses to play with Xander being the Captain and just hops into cyrogenic storage. I have too, done the same thing by choosing not to player the round. Aimless have too hopped into cyro storage.

[Garnascus]

This complaint will be addressed and discussed once all the evidence and sides are presented. Jenn will obviously not be a part of the internal discussions of the evidence due to her being the complaint poster. Whitelist and head play falls under tishinastalker's department. At the moment i have no opinion and will reserve any judgement until xander has had a chance to post.

[Pacmandevil]

Also adding the fact that whenever he's Captain, he pretend's he's the HOS for whatever reason. demanding arrests etc.

[NoahKirchner]

(Sorry if I do something wrong, this is my first post in anything about player complaints)

I was one of the heist members this round, sent to recover the runaway ICP. The other two raiders went onboard while I stayed behind in the skipjack, so I have a rather clear recollection of what was said over comms and the general attitude since I had nothing better to do.

Like aimless said, as soon as we arrived and claimed that the ICP was ours, the captain immediately opted to hand him over. No proof of ownership, not considerations of anybody else, he likely would have handed the ICP over right then. His justification for this was that the ICP "wasn't their problem" and that a federal agency from Tau Ceti (whose name I can't remember) would handle it. The two other crew members went aboard, got into a small bit of trouble as someone aimed a gun at them (for seemingly no reason, but unrelated), and then all was quiet. (At this point I was fighting space carp to get over after the gun, so I am not entirely sure what lead to the ICP dying) But whenever I got over to the station, the ICP was dead, and they just sort of threw it at us and told us to leave after returning our weapons. There was very little antag rp and it was basically just a business exchange as opposed to a driving force in a narrative for the station.

So to give some reference to some things that were left out in the original post, and some ideas from a different perspective.

My Ckey is NoahKirchner, and my name that round was Julius if you need to look anything up or verify anything.

[SierraKomodo]

I've seen many issues with Xander's captains during rounds I'm observing, and in some cases rounds I play in. The main issue I've seen with him is micromanagement of just about everything. He completely bypasses his heads of staff, directly ordering the departments to perform specific tasks and getting directly involved in situations (Specifically, security situations which a captain should be keeping as far away from as possible because he's supposed to be the most valuable person on the station). His statement that he isn't obligated to serve the antags is also incredibly wrong. One of the primary OOC purposes of a head of staff is to help guide the round and roleplay, and you do this by working with an antag's gimmick, and allowing the heads of staff under you to actually do their jobs. I've seen many occasions where heads of staff just go right to cryo because they can't do anything with Xander overstepping them constantly.

[HunterRS]

I really don't want to get involved in this, but i want to throw something out. One rev round Kalla (SonicGotNuked) was head rev and jester promoted Adolph to RD, Kalla then recruited Edgar (Me) and the rev was to demote Adolph. We went out on a peaceful protest by sitting at the bar, later Jester called me and Kalla to the bridge, stating he was terminating both of us, ending any protest we had.

Use this as you will

[Pyrociraptor]

During one rev round (where I was the Head of Security), we had Revs bunking up in cargo and protesting with weapons, but without any hostage or any real "antag actions" (except visible weapons and the whole bunking up.) . With the rest of security, we all agreed on negotiations (while still gearing up security with Tactical and Riot gear.) However, as we were about to roll out and move toward Cargo, Stamos (Loyalist) ordered us to shot them down for being terrorist. I could understand that the Loyalist would want to quickly get rid of Revs, but he even denied any chance of communications/negotiations, cutting down all possible RP on there.

Not only that, but he walked up to the barricaded Cargo, emptied his energy gun on the Revs, with them only asking for negotiations/to be heard, and went back to sec, ordering us to charge at them and kill them all. He even forced a borg to drag a bluespace beacon and to charge to it via the teleporter without letting me even set a proper plan for that. We ended up losing two sec members, being totally annihilated by the revs. We only won because a borg (I think?) opened a N2O canister, we had gas mask, and the randomness of the situation and Revs running low on internal allowed us to win. We at least managed to capture 50% of them and brought them back to the CT shuttle (that was just freshly called after this shitfest that went back to code blue.)

As a note, we had the AI telling us that the captain had shot himself inside his office, just to find his body there.

TL;DR, he just denied Revs chance of negotiations by opening fire and ordered us to kill them all because, with his words, "We don't negotiates with terrorists."

[Coalf]

During one rev round (where I was the Head of Security), we had Revs bunking up in cargo and protesting with weapons, but without any hostage or any real "antag actions" (except visible weapons and the whole bunking up.) . With the rest of security, we all agreed on negotiations (while still gearing up security with Tactical and Riot gear.) However, as we were about to roll out and move toward Cargo, Stamos (Loyalist) ordered us to shot them down for being terrorist. I could understand that the Loyalist would want to quickly get rid of Revs, but he even denied any chance of communications/negotiations, cutting down all possible RP on there.

Not only that, but he walked up to the barricaded Cargo, emptied his energy gun on the Revs, with them only asking for negotiations/to be heard, and went back to sec, ordering us to charge at them and kill them all. He even forced a borg to drag a bluespace beacon and to charge to it via the teleporter without letting me even set a proper plan for that. We ended up losing two sec members, being totally annihilated by the revs. We only won because a borg (I think?) opened a N2O canister, we had gas mask, and the randomness of the situation and Revs running low on internal allowed us to win. We at least managed to capture 50% of them and brought them back to the CT shuttle (that was just freshly called after this shitfest that went back to code blue.)

As a note, we had the AI telling us that the captain had shot himself inside his office, just to find his body there.

TL;DR, he just denied Revs chance of negotiations by opening fire and ordered us to kill them all because, with his words, "We don't negotiates with terrorists."

 

I have no strong feelings one way or the other but I must support Pyro in this.

As a head rev that round we opted for a peaceful protest in cargo, shutting down any cargo deliveries or mining, effectively seizing their means of production.

To his defense some of the revs were armed with weapon BUT not visibly, most of the weapons were hidden away and were haphazardly constructed stuff such as Hatchets, kitchen knives and one I think had a katana.

What suprised me when I, a heard rev wanted to speak to the captain, he agreed to my demands and told me to walk out of cargo and have a talk with him, I went, without a weapon or support and as I approached the captain to talk.

He pulled out a baton and beat me down, if it were not for the revs looking out the window I would have probably been dragged away. This escalated the situation to massive levels as revs just ran out of cargo directly attacking the captain with whatever they could find, the rest of what Pyro described happened after that incident when we once again re-fortified in cargo.

Also I think there were some issues with cyborgification of suspected revs? But take that with a grain of salt as I don't remember all the details.

[Azande]

During one rev round (where I was the Head of Security), we had Revs bunking up in cargo and protesting with weapons, but without any hostage or any real "antag actions" (except visible weapons and the whole bunking up.) . With the rest of security, we all agreed on negotiations (while still gearing up security with Tactical and Riot gear.) However, as we were about to roll out and move toward Cargo, Stamos (Loyalist) ordered us to shot them down for being terrorist. I could understand that the Loyalist would want to quickly get rid of Revs, but he even denied any chance of communications/negotiations, cutting down all possible RP on there.

Not only that, but he walked up to the barricaded Cargo, emptied his energy gun on the Revs, with them only asking for negotiations/to be heard, and went back to sec, ordering us to charge at them and kill them all. He even forced a borg to drag a bluespace beacon and to charge to it via the teleporter without letting me even set a proper plan for that. We ended up losing two sec members, being totally annihilated by the revs. We only won because a borg (I think?) opened a N2O canister, we had gas mask, and the randomness of the situation and Revs running low on internal allowed us to win. We at least managed to capture 50% of them and brought them back to the CT shuttle (that was just freshly called after this shitfest that went back to code blue.)

As a note, we had the AI telling us that the captain had shot himself inside his office, just to find his body there.

TL;DR, he just denied Revs chance of negotiations by opening fire and ordered us to kill them all because, with his words, "We don't negotiates with terrorists."

 

I have no strong feelings one way or the other but I must support Pyro in this.

As a head rev that round we opted for a peaceful protest in cargo, shutting down any cargo deliveries or mining, effectively seizing their means of production.

To his defense some of the revs were armed with weapon BUT not visibly, most of the weapons were hidden away and were haphazardly constructed stuff such as Hatchets, kitchen knives and one I think had a katana.

What suprised me when I, a heard rev wanted to speak to the captain, he agreed to my demands and told me to walk out of cargo and have a talk with him, I went, without a weapon or support and as I approached the captain to talk.

He pulled out a baton and beat me down, if it were not for the revs looking out the window I would have probably been dragged away. This escalated the situation to massive levels as revs just ran out of cargo directly attacking the captain with whatever they could find, the rest of what Pyro described happened after that incident when we once again re-fortified in cargo.

Also I think there were some issues with cyborgification of suspected revs? But take that with a grain of salt as I don't remember all the details.

 

The shots were warning shots. The energy pistol is not going to kill anybody. As well, the weapons were visible, and your rev group ended up chasing me down the hallway with bats and handmade guns. So yes, they got batonned and shot. That is what happen when you corner a Captain with an angry mob with weapons. I have nothing to defend here. If I was a rev and acting like you were, I'd expect to get shot.

[Azande]

Big Ball of Crud

 

Right.

I'll respond to this specific incident simply.

I am a player, I play command staff, I play for my own enjoyment, and I do so within character.

Jester Stamos is an anti-synth kind of person. He views them as machines, tools, property, and it would be utterly shit roleplay for me to abandon my character completely, just to go along with an antaghugbox view that Jenna seems to have.

NanoTrasen Employees and Internal Security are in no way, required to handle such situations. I wanted them off my station and gone because my captain wanted them off and gun, it is not my job to pick fights with antags, it is the job of the antagonist to pick fights with me.

Yes, perhaps the media would have a hayday with the issue, but guess what? NanoTrasen is the largest. Fucking. Company. IN THE UNIVERSE.

AND IT BASICALLY OWNS TAU CETI!!!

The only kind of PR that would ever ruin it would be stuff that results in the loss of life.

I standby everything my character said in that round.

[Azande]

Yesterday, as a cultist, I spoke to the Internal Affairs Agent (Catnip) regarding the Captain's punishment. The IAA did find the Captain's (Stamos) actions to have been wrong doing, the Captain had terminated a crew member's contract without contacting the Central Command. The Captain did not to respond to hear me rambling about how the punishment was cruel. (Though, I attempted to murder an officer) Then, would immediately order me to be Held until Transfer almost without a medical treatment from the Chief Medical Officer in which Auralia stepped in and demanded the Captain to let me go to the Medical Bay. (Marcus Halloway as witness)

Take it as you would.

I do see many times that people refuses to play with Xander being the Captain and just hops into cyrogenic storage. I have too, done the same thing by choosing not to player the round. Aimless have too hopped into cyro storage.

 

????

1. Learn to present your ideas better, I don't even know what round you're talking about because you cant. Fucking. Communicate.

I do not terminate employment nor think that I can, I even have my own custom suspension notice form for when I do suspensions

Exhibit A

[small]
[center][b]NanoTrasen Inc.
Civilian Branch of Operation[/b]

Suspension Notice[/center]
[hr]Facility: NSS Exodus
Date: [field]

To: [field]
Subject: Details of Suspension[br]
This is an official notice that you have been suspended from active employment with NanoTrasen Corporate Conglomerate for the remainder of this shift, pending review by Central Command Internal Affairs Agents at the NTCC Odin. Attached you should find a copy of your financial record, as well as an NCF-0105 Suspension form.

In compliance with suspension procedures:
[list]
Your paycheck for the shift has been revoked, and your funds account may or may not be suspended, at the discretion of the suspending Officer. 

You are excused from any and all work duties for the remainder of the shift, but are expected to adhere to Corporate Regulations and Station Directives in compliance to your contract, and are expected to follow the orders of any and all Command personnel.

You may appeal this suspension prior to the shifts end to the station Captain, if your appeal is denied, you are welcome to contact Internal Affairs and submit an appeal directly to Central Command.
[/list]
[hr]Employee: [field]
Signature: [field][/small]

 

If this is one of the possible incidents Im thinking of, I asked to keep you at the brig because you were a dangerous offender, and all of the damage was to your eyes, it was not life threatening and someone just had to bring eye meds in a dropper to the brig to treat you, and in the end, I LISTENED to my CMO's professional opinion and let her take you.

Your point is moot.

And on the bottom note, yeah, I notice characters that cryo when I board, and while it's mildly upsetting to me, it's immature and ridiculous and honestly, I just don't care enough about what the fuck other people do in terms of that. If they want to leave, that's their prerogative.

[Azande]

And, in response to the claims that I override my Heads of Staff..

Yes, I do, not as often as people like to think, but I do. Most of the time, it's because the Head is doing something against policy, or what I would view as the goals of NanoTrasen.

Again, if I have a Head of Staff for a department, the only time I speak over their communications is if:

1. They are inactive.

2. I need to reaffirm an order they have given in a more authoritative tone.

3. I need to override something they are saying.

In terms of Security, you're right. My two captain characters do get involved in quite a few security situations, mostly because I rarely have an HoS.

Jester is happy to go check out spider attacks with his Officers when there is no HoS, he has a gun, he can use it. He's also happy to handle a security related incident administratively, such as calling a vandal or petty thief into his office to reprimand them, rather than having security detain them.

And there are times where Jester has, in very difficult situations, joined Security in armed conflicts for his station. At the point of a cult running around or mercs running around and murdering everyone, it is not very fun for me to sit in the bridge until one side dies, and then call a shuttle, I'm sorry it's just not. The drama increases if I either get captured, or injured or killed, because then we get to see how the station works without a leader, it's not a bad things, it's just a different avenue of RP that a lot of people seem to be afraid of.

[sonicgotnuked]

I am a player, I play command staff, I play for my own enjoyment, and I do so within character.

Do you put other peoples enjoyment in scale also? You are the captain and people stop liking you if you play for your own gain. That leads to the next statement.

And on the bottom note, yeah, I notice characters that cryo when I board, and while it's mildly upsetting to me, it's immature and ridiculous and honestly, I just don't care enough about what the fuck other people do in terms of that. If they want to leave, that's their prerogative.

I would honestly look at myself if I was in this situation where everyone hates me and goes into cryo, this should not be some thing where your just shrug it off when all of command goes into cryo.

Jester Stamos is an anti-synth kind of person. He views them as machines, tools, property, and it would be utterly shit roleplay for me to abandon my character completely, just to go along with an antaghugbox view that Jenna seems to have.

This honestly should not be a thing when it comes to the RP of the round with, "Throw the IPC out because fuck IPCs."

This is role play and your job as captain is to try and lead the role play and do shit, not go "Dis is what they would do in real life" and go fuck a ninja over and take their suit when they first greet themselves because "They are infiltrating muh station." This type of behavior only leads to one thing, antags getting sick of it and not bothering to roleplay certain things and makes everyone hate the round. It is a dead end.

[Ornias]

Just gonna throw this out there:

I don't particuarly like Xander's captain, and from the sounds of things I'm not alone, but the first given example is reasonable and fair.

It's not NT or the Exodus' job to take care of this IPC without a tag. They're not the police. It was safer for the company and the Exodus to give the IPC back to the raiders, and with IPCs being inferior to humans in the mind of the captain, that makes it all the more reasonable.

On the other hand, the other stuff there still stands and I concur with.

[Jennalele]

It was tagged. Besides, it would be incredibly bad rep if someone found out that an NT captain fumbled that bad. There were a hundred different ways to go about that and convey that he was anti-synth that wouldn't immediately put the boot to the gimmick.

[Azande]

Make a better gimmick. That's all I have to say.

[CommanderXor]

Right. Adding on to this. Just the other round the RD has a bunch of spiders breeding in xenobiology. To the point where they are literally everywhere on the station and security is stretched thin dealing with it and a wizard. Seems simple enough, right? So the virologist starts releasing a airborne virus for no reason and the RD says they 'approved of it'. So I move in to arrest them, since it's code blue and the station is in tatters from the spiders, monkeys, blob and wizard. She then grabs a fireaxe and runs from me. I give chase and head to the shuttle. Upon arriving to the shuttle I make a arrest. She throws the fireaxe at me, luckily not lodging in to me and I have to use a grenade and a flash to finally get them. All as non-antag. A non-antag head of staff should not be bloody breaking regulations and landing a HuT sentence. Since they directly resulted in several deaths and resisted arrest. This is unacceptable behaviour as a head of staff.

[sonicgotnuked]

Make a better gimmick. That's all I have to say.

So bassicly you don't like the gimmick and that is why you shut it down? This type of behavior should not be coming from a Whitelisted player and it causes merc/hiest to go back to bombing and killing.

[Azande]

Make a better gimmick. That's all I have to say.

So bassicly you don't like the gimmick and that is why you shut it down? This type of behavior should not be coming from a Whitelisted player and it causes merc/hiest to go back to bombing and killing.

 

No, it's not that I don't like it, it's that the gimmick was literal crap, poorly thought out and didn't take into account that maybe some characters have personal opinions on things.

@TheRDThing

Yeah, mostly my bad, but when you drew your gun it was originally set to lethal, whether you changed it or not, I didn't stick around to see, I grabbed the axe I had been using for most of the shift for spiders and high-tailed it to research. The virus was 100% beneficial and only caused slight twitching, and the reason I authorized it was because some idiot started randomly crushing a monkey's skull in departures.

In terms of the spiders, well, they weren't meant to get out of hand.

[HunterRS]

So just because a gimmick was bad means you have to shut it down? We gave the crew plenty of room to deny us, we at it all planned out, and you just threw a wrench in it

[Azande]

So just because a gimmick was bad means you have to shut it down? We gave the crew plenty of room to deny us, we at it all planned out, and you just threw a wrench in it

 

Heads are players too. there is not, or should not be any expectation for a Head of Staff Whitelistee to break character and sacrifice their own enjoyment, just so sub-par antags can do their sub-par gimmick.

I'm sorry but that's 100% my view. If you make a gimmick in which you give the crew two options, 1. Give the IPC back or 2. Refuse to return the IPC, don't be surprised when they fucking choose.

But my Captain is not going to refuse the heavily armed paramilitary at his doorstep when they ask for their walking talking toaster back that he has NO legal or character obligations to protect.

NanoTrasen would not suffer from this, why? Because it's not fucking their problem. At all.

If this is just going to be the same people asking me the same question again and again, then I'll request this complaint is closed because I've given my answers.

[Ornias]

I wish we'd stop focusing on the first given example because it's by far the worst example of poor play.

An armed team comes up asking for an IPC which just arrived on the station. Refusing to return it would be dangerous to the station, it's crew, and the company if it turns out that it IS owned by the armed team.

By returning the IPC, yes they shut down the gimmick, but the gimmick presented only two options and to keep the IPC would be horrendously out of character for a head of staff whose job it is to put the Company first and others second. If they'd taken a CREWMEMBER hostage, and they'd been denied, that would be a different situation altogether. But it's not the companies problem, and would just be a waste of resources as far as they're concerned.

In the simplest terms possible, the antags were expecting the Captain to create the conflict. That's not what the captains there for, that's what the antags are there for.

Focus on the other flaws that XanderDox has exhibited as a Head of Staff, not this singular, positive incident.

[HunterRS]

I would like to point out we had one gun. We were no way armed or said we were armed, he could have more then able to deny it and hold us off, but he didnt

[Garnascus]

After discussing this specific round with other staff members i have arrived at a conclusion. No punishment shall be levied against xander for his actions during this mercenary round. The whitelist overseer tishinastalker had this to say on the matter.

 

after reading through everything. The operatives gave the crew two options. The captain, being the person charged with the ultimate security and wellbeing of both the station and her crew, chose the option that would less lead to disaster. Whether or not they were armed with a single gun is irrelevant. If thugs that look like they might be armed show up at my workplace, looking for a busted copy machine we have, and my boss is in, I assure you they won't sacrifice the wellbeing of their employees over a piece of property (or at the very least of corporate property). The only thing I can fault him for is OOC attitude, which I can just simply talk to him about that. Other than that, I cannot find a good reason to punish Xander over his actions in that round and will not deal punishment for it; short of headmins overruling me on it.

 

I am in complete agreement here. It is 100% reasonable in our lore setting to not risk the lives of your crew over a toaster. We have a sever rule indicating that SOME lee way should be given to antags but i think its unreasonable to expect people to completely abandon their characters to cater to antags. Perhaps he didn't choose the most "fun" solution but in the game of roleplay things do not always go the way we want. Concerns have also been levied against xander about him micromanaging departments as the captain. Myself and tishinastalker believe there is a point to where that becomes an OOC issue. It is usually the captains prerogative though. Tish had this to say on the matter.

 

I mean, when you think about it, that's their job to an extent. The captain should listen and trust in his heads of staff, and stay in your lane I can see apply for small things. E.g. Captain wants a certain person not arrested. Captain tells research how to go about their job.

If HoS tells team "do this" and Captain immediately goes "No. Do this instead." Then I'd be fine with it depending on the situation. Such as if the action could lead to disaster the head of staff doesn't understand or the head of staff is doing a really poor job of going at it. Our wiki has a pretty good reasoning for it as captain. https://aurorastation.org/wiki/index.php?title=Captain

If the captain is just stepping in at every single point, acting as the department's head of staff regardless of what's going on, then that's where they need to take a step back. Such as being code green and captain is barking orders at science on their channel, despite there being an RD.

 

As tish states, our wiki has a pretty robust description. I would encourage everyone to take a look at it and then decide during the round if the captain is breaching it enough to warrant an ahelp.