Aggressive Marketing, Redux

[Lohikar]

A few days ago I made this PR (https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/2435) with the intent of making Brand Intelligence (the event that causes vendors to throw crap at people) more dangerous if engineering ignored the issue.

The current changes in the PR mostly affect what happens when the vendors are ignored and every vendor on-station is infected. Once all vendors are infected, they have a 70% chance to uproot themselves and start chasing people down the hallways dealing moderate amounts of brute damage (killable like any other mob). If they do not uproot themselves, they have a 30% chance of exploding (weakly). Otherwise, nothing happens to the vendor. Before they go rogue, the command announcement will list what type of vendor the origin machine is, and the origin machine's spoken lines will change to a more aggressive set. If the origin machine is reset or destroyed, all vendors on the map are reset and the event ends immediately.

Several people have expressed concern about these changes being unrealistic or meme-y, so I'd like to know if anyone has any suggestions for alternative ways to make the event more punishing while keeping things sane & somewhat believable.

EDIT: It's worth noting that the PR makes the event rarer as well by bumping it to a Moderate severity event instead of Mundane.

[Scheveningen]

In a game filled with blood cultists, space wizards and apparently meme museums being canonized by the lore team, I'm not sure why people are so adamant on complaining on whether this is too zany or whatever. It fits within the setting, especially what with the present fear about emergent synthetic intelligence. If this affects vending machines and makes them aware of their surroundings and violent towards humanoid beings then it's all for the better, rather than for the worst.

It also supplies some consequence for what happens when you purposefully ignore an event. Such could be applied to all of the random events that exist but don't have inherent consequences, but this will do by itself for now. I like it, it's interesting and it's engaging in its own way. One more thing to blame incompetent engineers on, just for added future bantering and hilarity.

[AllyBearsley]

Oh if there's an obvious origin machine and this can be solved by fixing that. I'm totally fine with this. There's just the problem of going afk in certain rooms and having a vending machine gun you down while you're gone. I don't like the sound of that, but the overall idea of making this a real event that needs work is good. I'd love to see more events that aren't antag related and involve cooperation within the station.

[Skull132]

In a game filled with blood cultists, space wizards and apparently meme museums being canonized by the lore team, I'm not sure why people are so adamant on complaining on whether this is too zany or whatever. It fits within the setting, especially what with the present fear about emergent synthetic intelligence. If this affects vending machines and makes them aware of their surroundings and violent towards humanoid beings then it's all for the better, rather than for the worst.

 

Believe it or not. Demons are more reasonable than machines randomly sprouting legs. Universe consistency is a thing worth obeying: the Veil exists and what it can do is roughly established by gameplay and reinforced by lore. (And surprisingly consistent!) We do not have a precedence for mechanical things randomly sprouting legs or doing other, similar things. The rules for mechanical items roughly mirror that of real life.

Imma post my proposal, which I believe is reasonable and more believable, while still remaining dangerous and a major PITA:

Alongside throwing shit, make them have a chance of electrocuting passers by. Would make them more noticeable and give a bigger incentive to fix them, specially considering that some of them (medical bay, bar, sec) lie right next to common movement routes. In addition, to some, add explodely timers. After a randomly generated amount of minutes, if not fixed, make them explode. Further incentive for engineers to fix them, once they figure out the fact that these things go boom.

[Lohikar]

snip

 

I more thought of them as having wheels to assist with moving them around, considering how easy it is to move them in-game.

[Synnono]

As one of the people who raised concerns to Lohikar, I wanted to add my two cents.

 

Believe it or not. Demons are more reasonable than machines randomly sprouting legs. Universe consistency is a thing worth obeying: the Veil exists and what it can do is roughly established by gameplay and reinforced by lore. (And surprisingly consistent!) We do not have a precedence for mechanical things randomly sprouting legs or doing other, similar things. The rules for mechanical items roughly mirror that of real life.

I'm in general agreement with this. I don't think anyone who plays here will try to argue the the game is in any way 'realistic,' however there is value in constraining the unrealism that we introduce to be both believable within the setting and additive to the roleplay and/or gameplay experience (both, ideally).

Aside from having another thing to shoot, or fix, or cower from with your fellow crew members, I don't feel this feature as it was originally proposed was additive to either experience. And as someone who does not really play engineering or security, it would end up (to me) as just another serious event that, at its worst, is hitting past the 1:00 mark of a round when there are already antagonists, carp, spiders, bears or an unmitigated blob tripping over each other to breach rooms and kill people.

If I could grab the nearest fireaxe as a botanist or librarian and run around murdering the vendors in order to save my friends, that would be fine. But we play on a server where we are expected to not metagame the problem, powergame the solution, ignore fear, possess an unrealistic skillset (particularly in combat), or neglect our characters' responsibilities. So at the very least I would like the event to not include the portion where the machines aggressively try to hunt people down, a la Maximum Overdrive.

I do like that it's an infection that spreads, that it can get very severe, and that there is a way to stop it that Lohikar made visible to players. I would want to just stop short of the moving, hunting vendors, however, and maybe recommend some alternatives. These are all off the cuff and not meant to be taken as a whole:

 

• Increase the power/damage of launched goods from the dispenser, so that it is a credible threat to crew safety even when it's not the dinnerware knives being fired.
  
• Allow machines to shock themselves, as if pulsed by a multitool (wears off and on).
  
• Infected machines draw an abnormally high amount of power from the powernet; multiple infected machines in one place may drain APCs.
  
• Infected machines zero out the bank account, modify ID access, or wipe the ID access of someone attempting to purchase.
  
• Infected machines may overload and explode in a manner that (might) breach a room, after a clear warning and a brief delay.
  
• Infected machines cause electrical interference that may toggle APC circuits, or impede the AI's functionality

 

That's just spitballing, but all of them I think are a bit more internally believable and a bit less disruptive than mobile aggression. Yes, a lot of strange stuff happens out in the Romanovich Cloud, and yes, there are powers that COULD turn a vending machine into yet another mobile, hostile menace in a game that is chock full of them, but I would like to make them menacing in a way that also still leaves them as recognizable, tool-accessible, and outwardly unassuming.

Dey just vending machines, yo.

[NoahKirchner]

I've gotta say, I really don't like this random event.

It triggers nearly every round, ends in the floor being covered with random garbage, and everyone is always too occupied fixing more important things to really care about it.

I'd be in full support of an entire revamp, maybe having vendors hike up prices, or even remove it for now and tie it into the IT job that I keep hearing about in the future, having them fix issues with the vendor like insane prices, minor shocks, stuff like that.

As for the moment, though, it's really just annoying a bit immersion breaking to be constantly pelted with cigarettes and coffee every time I'm near a vending machine when playing after the 1:30 mark.

[Butterrobber202]

Really against the event even existing in the first place. And like Skull said, in the lore, outside powers like magic and Cultist runes are real and actually work. But the machines are in a similar style as ours. It doesn't really make sense for a machine that is designed to vend stuff and collect money to gain the ability to produce legs. Optical sensors, targeting computers, and the objective to attack people.

[Scheveningen]

Rule of Cool + Entertainment Value > realism arguments.

The concept of vending machines uprooting themselves to chase after people is funny and interesting, and it fulfills the SS13 minimum quota of silliness quite well.

It can have wheels, sure, but in order for this suggestion to be any good the machines need to be rabid in their marketing strategies and should pose a physical threat to people in terms of uprooting themselves and wheeling around running into people.

[DatBerry]

if you want an IC explaination to this that makes sense, i can deliver.

in the year 2456 Space Cola's RnD division invented a new advertisment system, a more pushy approach.

simply put, the vendors would scan for dehydrated possible customers, and using powered wheels, they would drive to said customer to offer a drink at a discount.

the idea went into full assembly line production, but Space Cola was soon hit by a lawcase, forcing them to disable the new feature due to consumer privacy issues.

the system is still in place, and having had a short term in production and development, the machines are prone to malfunctioning, which would lead them to aggresively ram into dehydrated consumers and throw products at them.

[Butterrobber202]

if you want an IC explaination to this that makes sense, i can deliver.

in the year 2456 Space Cola's RnD division invented a new advertisment system, a more pushy approach.

simply put, the vendors would scan for dehydrated possible customers, and using powered wheels, they would drive to said customer to offer a drink at a discount.

the idea went into full assembly line production, but Space Cola was soon hit by a lawcase, forcing them to disable the new feature due to consumer privacy issues.

the system is still in place, and having had a short term in production and development, the machines are prone to malfunctioning, which would lead them to aggresively ram into dehydrated consumers and throw products at them.

 

If they have wheels why do we have to wrench them?!??!?!?

[DatBerry]

If they have wheels why do we have to wrench them?!??!?!?

 

the wheels start locked and you have to wrench them free or else they'll start slipping around???????

use your imagination holy shit

[Butterrobber202]

If they have wheels why do we have to wrench them?!??!?!?

 

the wheels start locked and you have to wrench them free or else they'll start slipping around???????

use your imagination holy shit

 

was a joke but meh.

Still, its alittle dumb to think NT would sit by for a ton of years and just watch as their employees are beat by vending machines.

[Kaed]

I don't think the problem with this event lies so much in how silly or 'realistic' it needs to be (and vehemently disagree that SS13 has a 'minimum level' of silliness required) so much s that the event is poorly written and executed, and follows no coherent logic. Just putting this in will make people hate the even even more, because the typical response to it is to ignore it because it's such a dumb event. Further tweaking will be needed so people can feel more engaged by it.

For instance:

-Instead of having machines mindlessly launch their entire contents one item at a time at the nearest mob, give them a little bit of actual 'intelligence'. Put a timer of, say, 5 minutes on the machine, and after each timer, have them launch a random product at a passing person's face, as a 'free sample', using their ID card to generate a targeted advertisement for the product. Don't have a particular machine dispense a free sample to a person more than once. Have them stop firing at simple mobs and monkies (anything without an ID). People can still have an advertisement bleeped at them by machines, even if they got their free sample. The advertisements should become gradually less friendly as the event progresses.

-Have the machine's rage at no one using them gradually increase over time. They become more hostile after too long of being ignored, and begin doing this like zapping or firing coins or (something other than their products) at people who have been issued samples but not paid. Their lust for your money can be abated by using them, but the way to solve this problem is to fix the machines, not feed them more. (this could be done by giving the event a 'rage' counter shared by all machines, which increments a small amount per infected machine per period of time, which can be lowered by a lump sum if someone uses a vending machine, and eventually progresses too fast for the crew to spend money to abate)

-Eventually they will become so enraged they become generally hostile. This is the point of critical danger, where machines may begin shocking random people, uprooting themselves to bludgeon innocents, or even exploding in apoplectic rage (depending on what you decide the final stage of this event will be). Personally, I think starting to shoot things a lot faster that actually deal serious damage would make more sense than rushing you as a simple mob to bludgeon you to death. Turn them into stationary turrets.

-Machines that do not charge money to dispense a good should not be included in this event. I.e. tool and sec dispensers.

All of this serves to more engage the people involved. Being addressed by name, not creating so much random garbage that people tune it out, and not having your character die of candy-based bludgeoning because you were afk are all improvements on the concept.

[Nanako]

Vendors walking around and attacking people? I thought that idea had been brought up in the past and dismissed as too silly. Which it is. I am personally against it.

My plan for improving this event, which i never quite got around to, was just to make the thrown items a bit more dangerous. A launched can could have a chance of hitting your head, KOing you for a couple seconds. Launched alcohol/medicine bottles should shatter, lacerate peoiple, and spill their contents. Launched syringes should inject their contents into victims, etc

None of these would really be serious threats to life and limb though. IIRC the brand awareness is a mundane event, and it shouldn't be a serious threat

[Scheveningen]

Surely no sillier than APCs exploding for no real reason.

[LordFowl]

Sillier even, in fact.

[Nanako]

a little compromise comes to mind.

What about having two versions of the event. The one we have now, and this more severe one that uses moderate severity (and is thus less common) but starts off identically, so people can't tell

I do think vendors walking around is silly, but i wouldn't mind it if it were a pretty rare thing. silliness in small doses is fun

[NoahKirchner]

a little compromise comes to mind.

What about having two versions of the event. The one we have now, and this more severe one that uses moderate severity (and is thus less common) but starts off identically, so people can't tell

I do think vendors walking around is silly, but i wouldn't mind it if it were a pretty rare thing. silliness in small doses is fun

 

If anything, remove the one that we have now and add the moderate severity one as pretty rare. Seems like every round all of the vendors across the station are launching stuff at me to the point where it's more annoying oocly than icly because engineers are always too busy to come fix it.

[Lohikar]

a little compromise comes to mind.

What about having two versions of the event. The one we have now, and this more severe one that uses moderate severity (and is thus less common) but starts off identically, so people can't tell

I do think vendors walking around is silly, but i wouldn't mind it if it were a pretty rare thing. silliness in small doses is fun

 

If anything, remove the one that we have now and add the moderate severity one as pretty rare. Seems like every round all of the vendors across the station are launching stuff at me to the point where it's more annoying oocly than icly because engineers are always too busy to come fix it.

This is what the PR does in its current state - it replaces the existing event with a rarer one that's better telegraphed that eventually gets dangerous.

[NoahKirchner]

a little compromise comes to mind.

What about having two versions of the event. The one we have now, and this more severe one that uses moderate severity (and is thus less common) but starts off identically, so people can't tell

I do think vendors walking around is silly, but i wouldn't mind it if it were a pretty rare thing. silliness in small doses is fun

 

If anything, remove the one that we have now and add the moderate severity one as pretty rare. Seems like every round all of the vendors across the station are launching stuff at me to the point where it's more annoying oocly than icly because engineers are always too busy to come fix it.

This is what the PR does in its current state - it replaces the existing event with a rarer one that's better telegraphed that eventually gets dangerous.

 

Ohh gotcha gotcha. Well nevermind then forget I said anything.

[Nikov]

Rampant brand intelligence is a stupid, memey mini- event that should be removed entirely.

[Kaed]

Rampant brand intelligence is a stupid, memey mini- event that should be removed entirely.

 

While it is a very stupid mini event as-is, I don't see anything 'memey' about it. People don't make jokes about it. They don't laugh about it. It's just there, being a nuisance that people ignore beyond the passing effort it takes to grumble at an engineer to fix it. The only time people even mention out of it is to complain about it.

[Butterrobber202]

Rampant brand intelligence is a stupid, memey mini- event that should be removed entirely.

 

While it is a very stupid mini event as-is, I don't see anything 'memey' about it. People don't make jokes about it. They don't laugh about it. It's just there, being a nuisance that people ignore beyond the passing effort it takes to grumble at an engineer to fix it. The only time people even mention out of it is to complain about it.

 

"To complain about it."

That should tell you something

[Kaed]

Rampant brand intelligence is a stupid, memey mini- event that should be removed entirely.

 

While it is a very stupid mini event as-is, I don't see anything 'memey' about it. People don't make jokes about it. They don't laugh about it. It's just there, being a nuisance that people ignore beyond the passing effort it takes to grumble at an engineer to fix it. The only time people even mention out of it is to complain about it.

 

"To complain about it."

That should tell you something

 

A complaint about a bad feature is not a meme, it's just a bad feature being complained about.

Either way, this is a discussion on improving a feature, not deciding it is just stupid and 'memey' and should be removed entirely. That's not really even constructive, nor is this arguement about the nature of memetics, so let's stop.