[Denied] Bath Salts Addict's Whitelist Application

[Bath Salts Addict]

BYOND key: Bath Salts Addict

Character names: Adolph Hammerstein, Bernard Hoth, Andreesa Vasile, Burran Poliz

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How long have you been playing on Aurora?: Hard to say, but since February or March 2016, at the least.

Why do you wish to be on the whitelist?: To provide a unique take on department leadership, open up new avenues of play for myself as well as facilitate further character development.

Why did you come to Aurora?: When I first played SS13, I played "medium" RP servers such as Paradise and CM. Eventually, I grew tired of the cliquish, furry culture of Paradise (as well as facing a meta grudge from multiple players) and Colonial Marines is fun but I was more interested in the RP aspect moreso than constantly blamming filthy Xenos in the face. I wanted something more slower paced and RP-oriented, and Aurora is the most popular option for that. At first I was worried it was going to be a snoozefest but I was proven pleasantly erroneous.[/b]

Have you read the Aurora wiki on the head roles and qualifications you plan on playing?: Yep.

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Please provide well articulated answers to the following questions in a paragraph each.

Give a definition of what you think roleplay is, and should be about: Roleplay is about creating a story. Each interaction, each circumstance and each event is a footnote in a character's history that mouldy and shapes them. Spontaneous occurrences are my favorite part about roleplay. I never enjoyed planned roleplay very much. It always felt so stale and scripted, and unlike a movie you'll know how it'll end. Taking a character, giving them base traits and letting them loose upon the setting they're in and watching as they evolve into a human being (or otherwise) with their own set of likes, dislikes, wants, goals, aspirations and opinions is the defining joy of roleplay for me. I pride myself on the characters I lovingly craft.

What do you think the OOC purpose of a Head of Staff is, ingame?: To further the round's "story", so to speak. With a few words and actions, a Head can completely make or break a round moreso than any other role on the server. They're also meant to be robust in their department's workings (OOCly at least. ICly depends on qualifications) and should lend a helping hand to new players in learning their roles. They, like a tags, should bring something to the table to make things interesting. Take, for example, a Captain coming up with kooky schemes to fill the station's coffers much to the chagrin of his exhausted crew ("dancing Unathi in hats!") or a Research Director laying down the law and making greytiders think twice about hacking doors without gloves by making sure they pay for prosthetics (think about it. Why would NT cover the medical expenses of some Greytider breaking regulations?)

What do you think the OOC responsibilities of Whitelisted players are to other players, and how would you strive to uphold them?: As stated before, whitelisted players should be expected to teach newer players the ropes, both ICly and OOCly. A HoS should not be exempt from having a cadet shadow him, just like CMOs shouldn't just leave nursing interns to their own devices. The beauty of Aurora is that for the most part rounds carry over canonically, so it's worth investing time in new players in the hopes that they become regulars and so they too can develop their characters.

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Please pick one of your characters for this section, and provide well articulated responses to the following questions.

Character name: Adolph Hammerstein

Character age: 39

Please provide a short biography of this character (approx 2 paragraphs): Adolph had it easy. His parents were wealthy with a family name stretching well back into the past. He was born on Earth, in a time when Sol was starting to face dissent from their colonies. The only catch to his lofty upbringing, however, was that he quickly found himself becoming an extension to his parent's narcissistic will. Everything was expected of him, and everything chosen, let he tarnish their "precious" name.

He never did know Earth for long, however, as he and his family were forced to flee their home and much of their fortune. His parents had peculiar connections that, when unearthed, ruined their good name. Forced into hiding with that same group, Adolph was forced into not only becoming a tool for his parents but also a tool for a group who's extremist ideals were already questionable. Eventually, he decided e could no longer take it. His subsequent attempted coup failed and he found himself punished severely for his actions. Managing to escape, he was taken into Sol custody and tried to reconstruct his life after cutting a deal to sell out his former "comrades" but grew disillusioned with the government. Packing up, he left for the Republic of Biesel and found employment with NanoTrasen.

What do you like about this character?: I like the fact that he's one of the few characters on the server that either has unpopular ideas or doesn't shy away from speaking his mind. Yes, this has the risk of landing him into trouble, but conflicts always help drive a story further.

What do you dislike about this character?: I'll admit I perhaps was a bit too whimsical with Adolph at first, but after player feedback and advice from both staff and the playerbase (the ones delivered in a reasonable and polite manner that is) he's been toned down quite dramatically and doesn't cause as many problems as he used to.

What do you think makes this character fit to be a head of staff?: Adolph has seen many Heads of Security in his time as Warden, some of them good in his eyes and others not so much. In many situations, when a head of security has been absent, interim and/or simply impromptu leadership has fallen to him both in times of crisis as well as ordinary procedure. His reputation as someone who knows what they're doing

compels lesser-experienced security and even those with experience into following his suggestions and advice without question, for the most part, and whether it's official or not often times he's been the impromptu leader in a HoS' absence, and he has proven himself fairly capable in such a role.

 

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Please provide well articulated answers to the following questions.

How would you rate your own roleplaying?: I would rate myself a 7/10. I could definitely use a lot more emotes rather than words to describe what my characters are doing, as well as add general flavor.

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Extra notes: I understand the questions raised by Adolph's qualifications despite me repeatedly and successfully defending myself on multiple occasions. However, I acknowledge that him obtaining a head of staff position while being able to work cross-department jobs is a bit far. With that in mind, should this be accepted, Adolph will cease to be a Roboticist and only be prevalent in Security.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Guest

[Azande]

I'm not overly fond of Adolph, but I like him better than every other Warden because none of them do much of anything.. I think you're a competent player and I'd support this to see how you do in command. +1

[driecg36]

I have only know adolph in the short time i've been on the server, but he has definitely been one of, if not the, best wardens around. He has good leadership, good RP, and I think would make a natural fit as HoS, since he often ends up filling the HoS's shoes.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

I used to not like Adolph very much, but he's improved a lot from what I can tell. I can't seem to recall any interactions with your other characters, unfortunately. However, I do recall a recent round where I promoted Adolph to interim HoS, and from what I saw of him that round, he certainly seems to be ready for a head whitelist. Plus one from me.

[DatBerry]

I Don't know what you people are smoking, the character adolph is simply terrible to work with.

He has usually no respect to anyone but females he tries to hit on, disrespects even heads of staff ordering him and borderline / outright refusing orders (waving away a HoP), little regard to contraband regulations (i once gave security a knife and he instantly shoved it into his boot) and abusing prisoners because they called him short.

I know there's a lot of officers not happy woth working with adolph and i don't think he's the kind of character that'd get promoted to a leadership position.

1- from me till you make a character that isn't the incarnation of a bad security leader. You did improve since first joining but adolph is still terrible to work with ICly, I even heard someone not wanting to join/cryoing because adolph is on the manifest.

Adolph as he is now will have more of a reason to ignore other heads of staff and maybe even the captain if he doesn't like him and i don't think we need more anti-social command staff.

[Rushodan]

DatBerry was a little harsh - but only a little. As someone that mains security I can confirm that there have been times where Adolf has been an absolute pain to work with. However there are the rounds where he generally does a good job as warden and is nice to have on the team.

The main concern is that Alolf had been so...insubordinate? That quite a few players I think will already have a negative view of this character. I think that if you really want to go for head roles you should make a new, fresh character and show people how you have changed. A clean slate if you will.

For now - applying for a head whitelist with Adolf gets a -1 from me

[Mcspizzy]

-snip-

 

I stand by everything datberry says, and have my own concerns as well. Countless times have i seen you abusing inmates, commiting many amber infractions ontop of this one in partucular (i201, i204, i214, i218, and i219). Not only this but you powergame like i have seen no other officer do. You consistantly raid the brig for any and all items that could be even slightly used to break out of the brig at the begining of each shift. Even going so far as to display the bottle of booze in the brig right in the center of your office!

Ontop of this, you are stingy with the armory, but in no way that is acceptable (to me, atleast). There have been countless times where i have seen you walking around on blue with upwards of three armory weapons, while a team of 4 or more officers are left with only two weapons amongst themselves. To add insult to injury on this you seem to enjoy berating officers in that they are incompetent, when it is your own doing that they cannot complete their tasks! Ive even talked to admins on this specific case, and was going to submit an IR. But as this event took place on a test of the new map, it was not canon and i decided to drop it.

This was all on your security behavior, i still havent even got to the fact that your character is also somehow a esteemed roboticist, and that that is a whole other can of worms (see player complaints. The reason i bring this up is that i have not seen a change in adolphs behavior in this regard, and that it has even landed him a IR before). All in all, the amount of powergaming i see you do is asstounding, and i simply do not think you are ready for a head of staff position, and expecially not the head of security. Thank you for reading!

Tl:dr its a no for me.

[Arrow768]

While Adolph can be a asset he is also a source of trouble and very close to disobeying orders more often than not.

The fact that Adolph is also a roboticist and used this knowledge to build combat mechs and then used said mechs to valid antags is not really helping the case.

Another issue that I have with Adolph is that he usually leaves the brig and involves himself in various situations around the station.

He feels more like a officer with armory access than a warden at times.

But having said that he can, sometimes, be competent and is can be a valuable member of security.

I havnt really seen any of your other chars and I would be willing to bet that you have played them less than 10 rounds total (all of them together)

Please show us, that you can play a character that is not your warden.

Someone who is not causing as much trouble as your warden.

Until then -1

[Superiorform]

The application is a-ok, nothing to comment on there.

My question is how well will you abide by it? Are you just going to condescend to new cadets as you condescend to the officers? Are you going to powergame as I have heard of you powergaming as warden, and doing RnD as a roboticist?I cannot think of a single pleasant interaction I have had with your charterac that has been more than a few sentences long, and whilst I understand the character might just have a toxic personality, he is unfun OOCly too. Why would Hammerstein, of all people, so hated by his coworkers, be promoted to HoS? You also go against command a lot, and I'd like to see you playing a character that follows command (unless it's OOCly you), before trying to play command. Maybe try playing a timid, subservient character? Idk

Why is he a roboticist too? He is like, 30? How does one gain the qualifications for both robotics, and being a warden, and why?

I really have to give this a strong -1, sorry. If I were you, I'd try making a new character that is a nicer person, and see how it goes. My chars wouldn't want Hammerstein as HoS, and I don't want Hammerstein as HoS.

[Bath Salts Addict]

He has usually no respect to anyone but females he tries to hit on, disrespects even heads of staff ordering him and borderline / outright refusing orders (waving away a HoP),

Everyone has a different definition of respect, and for Adolph it is very strict. He'll follow orders if they are lawful. A Captain can not override regulations, and he won't obey an unlawful order. If he has a personal problem with a lawful order, he either follows it begrudgingly or looks into it more deeply.

As for the HoP situation you're referring to, you've got the timeline wrong. He didn't "wave away" the HoP when he was given an order, he did it prior. When he received the order he begrudgingly complied (with much hemming and hawing)

As for the female thing, I'm not really sure what you mean? There's been a few times but I've always played it for laughs and if you're taking it seriously then either I'm failing to convey it that way or you're not really paying attention.

 

little regard to contraband regulations (i once gave security a knife and he instantly shoved it into his boot) and abusing prisoners because they called him short

Perhaps I did go a bit overboard with that. I'll tone it down in the future, thank you, although I believe I was providing the prisoner with some form of interaction instead of just letting him tab out in the Brig for the whole time.

 

adolph is still terrible to work with ICly, I even heard someone not wanting to join/cryoing because adolph is on the manifest.

And that's fine, in my eyes at least. I'm not sure about anyone else but Adolph isn't meant to be a likeable character ICly. He's strict, he's rude, and it takes a lot to earn his respect. Maybe I went overboard with trying to make him seem unlikeable but if people ICly hate him, that's great. As for the cryo thing, that really seems like a personal problem for the person cryoing. It's not my obligation to pander to them and not join a round because they're already playing. If they're going to cryo because Adolph is around then so be it. I'd be more concerned if the person you're most likely referencing didn't have a reputation for being unable to separate IC and OOC

 

Adolph as he is now will have more of a reason to ignore other heads of staff and maybe even the captain if he doesn't like him and i don't think we need more anti-social command staff.

Again, only unlawful orders are disobeyed. A Captain attempting to forcibly implant people on code green will meet a lot of resistance from Adolph, and such a scenario has happened before.

 

As someone that mains security I can confirm that there have been times where Adolf has been an absolute pain to work with.

That's good. I just hope he's more of an IC pain than necessarily an OOC one.

 

The main concern is that Alolf had been so...insubordinate?

Like I say, unlawful orders are refused and standard operating procedure is adhered to. Captains won't get very far trying to force implants, and a HoS trying to take guns from the armoury on code green will promptly be bombarded with a barrage of questions, and he won't sugarcoat it. He's hardly the type to shake as he confronts someone, timidly taising a finger as he confronts someone: "B-but sir! That's il-illegal!"

 

I stand by everything datberry says, and have my own concerns as well. Countless times have i seen you abusing inmates, commiting many amber infractions ontop of this one in partucular (i201, i204, i214, i218, and i219).

I don't know about you, but I'd rather a cop punched and shoved me to subdue me rather than pepperspray me or send a potentially deadly dosage of volts into my body. Then again, I wouldn't be running around half-naked and screaming "shitcurity" at the top of my lungs anyways. As for specific actions, Adolph rarely outright refuses an order that isn't unlawful, and neither has serious damage has occurred. i201 is a stretch, i111 if you want to be technical. i214 is only applicable to heads of staff but if you insist on being literal, then it's most likely a misinterpretation. Adolph comes across as "ordering" Sec around when he's simply stating what regulations dictate should be done, and therefore what Security should be doing in the first place. As for i218, again that's an exaggeration. No one has ever been put into a life-threatening or critical condition, and most "excessive" force refers to the above; being punched and shoved is much less painful and much less dangerous than being tased. i118 at most.

Not only this but you powergame like i have seen no other officer do. You consistantly raid the brig for any and all items that could be even slightly used to break out of the brig at the begining of each shift.

Not items used to break out, items used to either harm officers/themselves or be a nuisance. The list of items Adolph takes out of the prison he has witnessed used in the past to attack himself and other officers, most of the incidents being on extended rounds. The current list of items taken out are as follows: the coveralls and colourful bandana, since Adolph hates it when prisoners wear them to get around not wearing orange, the hoe since its used more as a weapon than for gardening and the bottle of absinthe since its straight alcohol in a glass bottle. Absinthe is an incredibly dangerous thing to drink straight let alone leave it in a prison with inmates who outright disposal themselves. If prisoners want to get out, I always make sure to leave them with their PDAs and headsets (because only an antag would want to escape from the Brig for what is likely not a HuT sentence, and if not then they're probably only on the server to borderline grief anyways

Ontop of this, you are stingy with the armory, but in no way that is acceptable (to me, atleast). There have been countless times where i have seen you walking around on blue with upwards of three armory weapons, while a team of 4 or more officers are left with only two weapons amongst themselves.

"Countless times" seems to be a buzzword for "I think I've seen this happen so I'll mention it without mentioning specifics". If you have seen Adolph (I am not my character. Please differentiate "you" and "Adolph") with more weapons than he should, then either only two of those officers responded to a call to the armoury and he's looking for the other two to distribute weapons to, or there simply aren't enough officers and he's keeping the weapons on himself since obviously that would mean Security is undermanned and thus vulnerable to someone attempting to loot the armoury. In most cases armoury looters are mercs or raiders and thus unlikely to be stopped by one Warden, let alone a Warden with an undermanned Sec department, especially on the newmap since this seems to be what you're basing things on.

 

To add insult to injury on this you seem to enjoy berating officers in that they are incompetent, when it is your own doing that they cannot complete their tasks!

Again, Adolph, not I. Adolph has extremely high expectations. I don't see why being yelled at is an issue other than that of wounded pride.

This was all on your security behavior, i still havent even got to the fact that your character is also somehow a esteemed roboticist, and that that is a whole other can of worms (see player complaints.

This keeps being brought up, and keeps being successfully defended by myself. If you were to read the player complaint(s?) as there's only one, not multiple instead of simply invoking them, you'd see that anything the staff did take issue with was resolved and everything else ruled out reasonable. I don't see this as relevant.

[sonicgotnuked]

I must give a strong -1 on this also.

Hammerstein was a massive headache for everyone is security and science because this character knows fully how to do security and robotics. Yes, he has improved after his player complaint on this character but I still don't think he should get a head of staff whitelist on that character from the reputation Hammerstein has grown. (I guess he will cease to be a robotisist)

His actions in security is a little sideways because I feel like he is a little valid hunty when it comes down to antags with the robotics knowledge and mechs from what arrow said.

 

Everyone has a different definition of respect, and for Adolph it is very strict. He'll follow orders if they are lawful. A Captain can not override regulations, and he won't obey an unlawful order. If he has a personal problem with a lawful order, he either follows it begrudgingly or looks into it more deeply.

You need to remember the captain is loyalty implanted and they can break regulations in reason for the best of the company and the situation. You will be loyalty implanted, you will need to follow orders and you can send a fax to central command if you need too to ask about the captain. You can't simply refuse orders when loyalty implanted.

 

Again, Adolph, not I. Adolph has extremely high expectations. I don't see why being yelled at is an issue other than that of wounded pride.

There is a difference in calling people incompetent inside comms and telling someone that they should not be doing what they are doing.

I must agree that I find Adolph toxic, I hate him when I see him on the manifest and I don't like him one bit. I HIGHLY suggest making a new character if you want a head of staff whitelist, Adolph is not a good character to make HoS.

Again, PLEASE make a new character and I may change my view on you getting a whitelist.

[Bath Salts Addict]

doing RnD as a roboticist?

If you did your research you'd see that's something that was addressed in a player complaint and something I have ceased doing, on staff recommendation.

 

I cannot think of a single pleasant interaction I have had with your charterac that has been more than a few sentences long,

Maybe because you don't make pleasant characters yourself? There's nothing wrong with that, and I'd definitely love to see more Jake Lawrenson, but if a few sour IC interactions are enough to sway your opinion OOCly then you really need to learn to differentiate the two things.

 

and whilst I understand the character might just have a toxic personality, he is unfun OOCly

For you, at least. I think I'm doing fairly well with most people.

 

Why would Hammerstein, of all people, so hated by his coworkers, be promoted to HoS?

Because it's not a popularity contest, it's a matter of competence, and it's silly to think Central would be so involved in the day-to-day of their low level employees to seriously consider popular opinion. Haven't you ever worked under a manager, supervisor or any other authority figure that you and your friends absolutely despised? Yeah, it happens. Central is hardly going to sit down and think to themselves: "well, x and y don't like z, so z despite being competent and capable shouldn't be given this position"

 

You also go against command a lot,

Adolph. Not me. I'm not my character. And I've already explained that particular reasoning. Some heads have a nasty tendency to think they can override standard procedure and/or regulations. Adolph doesn't allow that.

 

and I'd like to see you playing a character that follows command (unless it's OOCly you)

Uh, okay? Unless it's OOCly me? Correct me if I'm misinterpreting this, but is this a critique on me or the character?

 

Why is he a roboticist too? He is like, 30? How does one gain the qualifications for both robotics, and being a warden, and why?

39. I'm starting to wonder if you actually read the app. There's a page of qualifications on the wiki where they list years to obtain degrees and unless I made a mistake somewhere with my math, the numbers add up.

 

My chars wouldn't want Hammerstein as HoS, and I don't want Hammerstein as HoS.

I sincerely hope you're not basing this off only what your characters would want. Like I said, being able to separate IC from OOC is a valuable skill to have.

 

Hammerstein was a massive headache for everyone is security and science because this character knows fully how to do security and robotics. Yes, he has improved after his player complaint on this character but I still don't think he should get a head of staff whitelist on that character from the reputation Hammerstein has grown. (I guess he will cease to be a robotisist)

He doesn't "fully" know how to do everything. His forensics knowledge is non-existant and his ability to repair EVA voidsuits and hardsuits leave much to be desired, as well as his prosthetics work. Other than forensics, what more do you need to know about Security other than memorizing a vague set of rules and being able to take people down.

 

His actions in security is a little sideways because I feel like he is a little valid hunty when it comes down to antags with the robotics knowledge and mechs from what arrow said.

Is it? To be honest Adolph stays in the Brig most of the time antagonists are out and about because someone needs to watch the armoury and cameras. The only times he leaves to actively fight antagonists is if the Brig is uninhabitable, the armoury was already looted or cleared out, and when most of Security is dead and/or engaged in an active fight. I don't see how robotics knowledge helps him validhunt, and Security is rarely given mechs and when they are I'm OOCly reluctant to let them really be used because in the past players have lied to staff about their character being qualified to pilot them.

 

You need to remember the captain is loyalty implanted and they can break regulations in reason for the best of the company and the situation. You will be loyalty implanted, you will need to follow orders and you can send a fax to central command if you need too to ask about the captain. You can't simply refuse orders when loyalty implanted.

Adolph has never encountered a situation where the Captain overriding regulations is the best possible course of action. They're Corporate regulations for a reason, meaning they're not the Space Law that other servers call it. They're a set of rules that NT puts forth for a reason, so the Captain would need a REALLY good reason to overrule them, no? A loyalty implant doesn't instantly make your word law.

 

Again, Adolph, not I. Adolph has extremely high expectations. I don't see why being yelled at is an issue other than that of wounded pride.

There is a difference in calling people incompetent inside comms and telling someone that they should not be doing what they are doing.

I don't see how either is an issue. If people get salty over a 2d spaceman calling their own 2d spaceman incompetent then they need to step away from the computer, have a cuppa and calm down.

 

I must agree that I find Adolph toxic, I hate him when I see him on the manifest and I don't like him one bit.

That sounds like a personal problem.

 

Again, PLEASE make a new character and I may change my view on you getting a whitelist.

You may? The way you put that implies I've done something OOCly to offend you. If I have, please tell me. Adolph may be an asshole, but I'm not.

[sonicgotnuked]

You may? The way you put that implies I've done something OOCly to offend you. If I have, please tell me. Adolph may be an asshole, but I'm not.

You have done nothing to offend me OOCly, I am just stating Adolph will not make a good character to place in a head of staff position.

[Azande]

Please realize the character he is using there doesn't matter, he will still make Adolph a Head regardless of what character of he uses for his head application. I had 7 Head characters, none of which I used during my original application.

[Azande]

While I myself have had many issues with Adolph, I support Bathsalt and his ability to roleplay, and I trust that my IC grudges against his character are just that, IC issues between characters, not an inability to lead.

[Ornias]

If you'd made this before your last player complaint, I would have given a strong -1.

But, as it stands, after all the desire to improve I've seen and your explanation, I'm going to give a +1. But I'm going to implore you to pick a different character to elevate to be head of staff.

I like Hammerstein, genuinely, and a small number of my characters even like him ICly (Astor, Joie, and Serena). He is a very fun character to interact with - my personal favorite interactions with you are when Hammerstein is going over the top trying to prove that he's better than his coworkers, such as one incident where you ranted to me about various mundane facts about exosuits as if they were legendary and esoteric knowledge. After I mentioned it in LOOC, you let me work on exosuits, you gave me room to do my only job whenever you could, and despite your character being a jerk ICly I still very much enjoy interaction with him.

That said, I don't want him to be a head of staff.

Jerk heads of staff are good, so long as they're either incredibly well done or are very easy to work around. That extra bit of conflict with someone who believes they're superior and has the power to back it up is great, really. But you've got to be able to be swayed - if you're a dick with no way to work around it or appeal to their 'better nature', then people will begin to feel frustrated.

Further, I can see why people would dislike Hammerstein OOCly - IC conflict can lead to OOC frustration very easily. I've had several people message me privately after IC conflict with some of my more crass characters, and had to explain to them that it was all IC. I don't begrudge them - it's the nature of the game that you project yourself onto your characters, and thus people rightly assume that other people do the same. I'd definitely advise going out of your way to talk to people in LOOC whenever you do something which could be considered rude, cruel, or abusive, because having a friendly chat in LOOC when being a dick IC can alleviate that stress and show the difference between character and player.

Basically, Hammerstein is a fun character. But he's too far off the mark to be a head of staff. Keep playing him, definitely. Make a jerk head of staff, full steam ahead. But you can be a jerk who is easy to work with, someone who's racist, sexist, but knows how to put the job first so they don't get fired.

TL;DR: +1 with another character, but don't stop playing Hammerstein or I'll be sad

[DatBerry]

I liked the first half of your first replies more than the rest. but not the rest. It's ironic you keep telling people they're mixing IC and OOC, when you've claimed someone's hate for your character to be an OOC grudge, that's some good mental gymnastics.

Just like the former player complaint, you would rarely if ever admit something you did was wrong unless a person in position of power says otherwise, something you share with your character.

as orians mentioned, asshole characters are fine, but yours can't be worked around with; especially a job like the head of security is very critical and what seems to be your complete disregard to other people's OOC opinion on him just shows you're not ready for it. the feedback system is made so you and the staff can see if what you're roleplaying is fun/good/whatever for the other players, and if a lot of players point out how your character is not fit, nor is he fun to play with and your only answer is "well it's all IC" you are failing to see the point in a head of staff's OOC obligations and I honestly don't think you would improve if you're given the whitelist with the current mindset.

[Ornias]

Actually, going to go slightly against what DatBerry said to distinguish our points of view.

I like your character. If someone can't handle someone being an asshole ICly, it means that either:

a) You're being too abusive.

b) You're being too obstructive to what they want to achieve as their character.

c) They can't work out how to differentiate between your IC attitude and OOC attitude.

Read: We're a roleplay server. We're playing characters. You should not need to limit yourself to playing a likable character just because people can't handle a confrontational and dickish character. Rule 1 is for OOC, not IC.

If you went out of your way to call one person a cunt every round and ruin their day, then there would be an issue. If you genuinely intended to ruin peoples rounds, then there would be an issue. But as it stands, the main issue people have is c), at least from what I've experienced (obviously I don't have a PhD in Hammerstein Theory). If Hammerstein became a head of staff, I feel it would conflict with b), and then there would be fair reason to complain. You're ready for a head of staff position, easily, but Hammerstein isn't. I don't think he'll ever be. He's made to be a dickish and obstructive character (GREAT! We need more of those!), but if you put him in a position where he CAN be obstructive, then people will begin to take genuine issues with him, including me.

[DatBerry]

but if you put him in a position where he CAN be obstructive, then people will begin to take genuine issues with him, including me.

 

that's the point I'm trying to push across. you can be a dick all you want, but if you want to be a dick as a head of staff, you need to be the OOC-likeable kind of dick.

Because a HoS adolph is a recipe for bad rounds in general.

[Rushodan]

In summery - the issue quite a few of us have (myself, sonic, Datberry etc) is that yes, we have seen your stonewall-type hard to work with character that goes against command....and that's it. This means we have nothing else to go off, and so we just assume that this is what you are also like OOCly too. Having a character that is just obnoxious to the point where it makes the round unfun to play is never going to get you +1s from majority of people in an application.

THE MAIN CONCERN: We have nothing else to go off - try spending around a month or something showing that you can be supportive and work as part of a team effort...and actually follows lawful orders and then sure, you can have a tactical +1 from me, and others I am assuming. I just think for now that having a Head role with the type of character you are RPing will just lead to some VERY unfun rounds for a lot of people that have to interact with the character.

[Something Vile]

It's me. Jane Pyre or whatever. 18~ month tenured sec player and frequent cohort of Hammerstein.

Before delving into my quick little tangent about Adolph himself, I would like to make a point fairly clear:

Bath Salts Addict is not a bad roleplayer and has the capability of creating fun situations for other players.

Now, I don't know what I'm expected to say that's positive of Adolph Hammerstein, the main character that I've come into contact with that Addict plays. What I have to say is decidedly, to a degree, a repeat of what has already been posted in this thread. Hammerstein is, a lot of the time that I have interacted with him, an asshole, but that doesn't inherently mean that he is a bad character. Comparable to how Mark Syion is another sec meme that is widely considered and arrogant piece-of-shit snowflake, I don't have any genuine concerns about the way that the player themselves act, with a few exceptions.

As someone I would often compete with for the position of Warden, Hammerstein has proven to be relatively competent. I mean no offense by this, but the character is often unwilling to compromise or give any feeling of camaraderie to others in their department. I believe, in earnest, that Hammerstein is a decently constructed character with vexes and strengths, but that being said, I do not believe he is fit for promotion.

Either BSA or Hammerstein in-character has exhibited, to me and other players, what could be considered "powergaming" behaviour. Acute incidents of this including where, as he was roboticist, I was contacted as a detective to investigate the breaking of a door into EVA. Lo and behold, upon investigating the scene, I found that construction materials were missing, and the traces of Hammerstein were found on sight. Upon inquiry with Adolph, I was simply told that he needed metal and there was no one with access around to let him in. After articulating that this was an illegal act, to enter an area without access and take something, he seemed more bothered by the fact that it was an issue than he was willing to apologise. I articulated to my department that he had committed two level one infractions, and he agreed to pay a fine.

Problematically, this behaviour is not a singular occurrence. While various minor, situational infractions have occurred wherein Adolph has overstepped his bounds, and BSA along with him, I feel that the most glaring of these was during a ninja round where I was playing interim HoS. From an opened cell, I had convinced the ninja to stay within the common area of the brig as a visiting Raymond Hawkins distracted him with chatter, before I fired a .50 tranq round, incapacitating the ninja. Unfortunately, my BYOND crashed almost immediately after firing, resulting in my character going SSD. While I am unaware of the events that took place in my momentary absence, I returned 2~ minutes later to find the ninja gone and a non-sec Hammerstein stripping my unconscious body. Seeing him in possession of all of my equipment, including the rifle and energy gun, I was confused to say the least.

I was told that it was in defense of myself and himself, despite the fact that I was SSD and he had no business being in the brig at all.

While these incidents are relatively old news, I would like to counter my own complaints of powergaming and unfriendly behaviour by saying that, during special antagonist rounds, BSA has proved to be an interesting roleplayer with plenty of gimmicks and an ability to take bizarre situations and make them fun, such as a MGS round involving a clone where, as a station bound employee, Hammerstein managed to spread a containable amount of premeditated chaos throughout the Exodus through encompassing shenanigans with the mercenaries on board.

Inconsistent or overly weighted as my statement may be, I believe that BSA is fine at roleplaying and creating situations for others to be involved in, but behaviour representative of powergaming gives me hesitance to draw a positive judgement. Additionally, I would like to say that, while I believe that BSA is capable of playing a Head role, I don't believe the multi-departmental, inhospitable Hammerstein is the character to promote to a position of authority.

[Snakebittenn]

-1, I would rather not play Security under a HoS who is aggressive to most of the station staff and eager to crack down on any sort of suspicious activity to the detriment of others. Also, isn't the following quote a little meta?

Not items used to break out, items used to either harm officers/themselves or be a nuisance. The list of items Adolph takes out of the prison he has witnessed used in the past to attack himself and other officers, most of the incidents being on extended rounds. The current list of items taken out are as follows: the coveralls and colourful bandana, since Adolph hates it when prisoners wear them to get around not wearing orange, the hoe since its used more as a weapon than for gardening and the bottle of absinthe since its straight alcohol in a glass bottle. Absinthe is an incredibly dangerous thing to drink straight let alone leave it in a prison with inmates who outright disposal themselves. If prisoners want to get out, I always make sure to leave them with their PDAs and headsets (because only an antag would want to escape from the Brig for what is likely not a HuT sentence, and if not then they're probably only on the server to borderline grief anyways

[Superiorform]

doing RnD as a roboticist?

If you did your research you'd see that's something that was addressed in a player complaint and something I have ceased doing, on staff recommendation.

 

My mistake. I have not read your player complaint, I... didn't really have much reason to.

 

I cannot think of a single pleasant interaction I have had with your charterac that has been more than a few sentences long,

Maybe because you don't make pleasant characters yourself? There's nothing wrong with that, and I'd definitely love to see more Jake Lawrenson, but if a few sour IC interactions are enough to sway your opinion OOCly then you really need to learn to differentiate the two things.

I do not mean pleasant as in they were meanies ICly, I am fine with that, I love IC dicks. My problem is when a character is a dick ICly in a way that makes it unfun OOCly. In my opinion, Adolph is not a fun character.

 

and whilst I understand the character might just have a toxic personality, he is unfun OOCly

For you, at least. I think I'm doing fairly well with most people.

Mixed reception, and yes, this is my personal opinion.

 

Why would Hammerstein, of all people, so hated by his coworkers, be promoted to HoS?

Because it's not a popularity contest, it's a matter of competence, and it's silly to think Central would be so involved in the day-to-day of their low level employees to seriously consider popular opinion. Haven't you ever worked under a manager, supervisor or any other authority figure that you and your friends absolutely despised? Yeah, it happens. Central is hardly going to sit down and think to themselves: "well, x and y don't like z, so z despite being competent and capable shouldn't be given this position"

I am sure personnel would be promoted based on performance, and if somebody is considered unlikable, even the big guys at CC would know. Leadership is an important quality. At any one time, at most, there are 40 people on the exodus. 10(?) in security? It's not a massive company building where the people promoting will never have spoken to the person being promoted.

 

You also go against command a lot,

Adolph. Not me. I'm not my character. And I've already explained that particular reasoning. Some heads have a nasty tendency to think they can override standard procedure and/or regulations. Adolph doesn't allow that.

Alright, I should have said"you play Adolph going against command a lot, and before I see you in a command role, I'd like to see you play a character that can actually follow the chain of command like someone who does not want to be fired."

 

and I'd like to see you playing a character that follows command (unless it's OOCly you)

Uh, okay? Unless it's OOCly me? Correct me if I'm misinterpreting this, but is this a critique on me or the character?

Both.

 

Why is he a roboticist too? He is like, 30? How does one gain the qualifications for both robotics, and being a warden, and why?

39. I'm starting to wonder if you actually read the app. There's a page of qualifications on the wiki where they list years to obtain degrees and unless I made a mistake somewhere with my math, the numbers add up.

He could be both, but why? I have not looked, so sorry if you have answered that somewhere, but I am sure this topic has been thoroughly discussed elsewhere.

 

My chars wouldn't want Hammerstein as HoS, and I don't want Hammerstein as HoS.

I sincerely hope you're not basing this off only what your characters would want. Like I said, being able to separate IC from OOC is a valuable skill to have.

I am basing this off what my characters would want for reasons I just detailed. Maybe you could be good in command, but I would like to see you play anyone but Hammerstein before you play command. In a station with only 40 people on it at once, what other chars think of your char would affect whether he gets promoted or not, and OOCly, I don't think he is fun.

[Synnono]

Ornias's feedback nailed my own right on the head. I like Adolph and think he is extremely well characterized, but I don't believe he will enable a good round for other characters as a head of staff.

I think Bath Salts Addict should use someone else in their head role if accepted. I also think they should get the chance to prove they can contribute in this way. It can always be taken back later if there's any sort of problem.

[Faris]

I won't go in depth as about it, but while I see that BSA may have the temperament needed to OOC'ly be a good head of staff, I don't believe it would make very much sense from the IC'ly stand point due to the nature of his origins, something I'd seem as a security risk due to past affiliations. Keep in mind that command roles in general and especially loyalty implanted ones are heavily vetted.

The only thing missing for me to +1 this is for you to apply as another character and to affirm that Adolph won't be played as an HoS.