[Resolved] Staff Complaint - OneOneThreeEight/Scheveningen

[UnknownMurder]

BYOND Key: UnknownMurder

Staff BYOND Key: OneOneThreeEight/Scheveningen

Game ID: bPg-cKlf

Delta's Warning: "Blowing up a cyborg that was initially locked down just because it was giving away secrets about the nuke existing. Got someone who was attempting to fix the cyborg grievously injured, due to not warning anyone they were detonating the cyborg prior. Hamfisted reaction in dealing with a cyborg leaking corporate secrets, in spite of the destruction they caused, command staff needs to do their job RIGHT or leave it to someone else more qualified."

Reason for complaint: Alright. I'll just be civilized and detailed much as I can be in this staff complaint. However, before I get started and will fill you all in as Delta knew little story behind this and all of Delta's points in the game were reasonably proven moot. The story is that I boarded the station Aurora MkII (the new station) as a Captain and I fall down the elevator shaft, the elevator shaft door was forced somehow open. I was taken out of the round for pretty much twenty minutes with a doctor having to BRB. Natwhite sees me in ghost and we engage in a small conversation. I get back on my feet and went on about my business as Chief Engineer starts a little manhunt on who's responsible for the shaft that has severely wounded 14 people, I was the third victim. I do not know how many people had died to this, but I get the strong message from Chief Medical Officer that plenty of people had died from elevator and a new danger, holographic space carps. Medical Bay was at this point, understaffed, and I understand this. I give Aisha a medal for pursuing in the case and being an interim head of security for a short duration of time. I head to the bridge sat around, fiddling with my thumbs while at the same time ordering the AI, Foxtrott 2.0, to shut down main elevators and holodeck while a scientist barricades the main elevators and Security would be equipped with heavy weaponry to deal with holographic space carps to minimize the losses of the assets and crew station.

Here's where things gets interesting, Chief Engineer pinpointed the issue down to Unit Bit and had some strong evidence that Bit had sabotaged with the main elevator doors. Bit is eventually later put on lockdown mode, assuming by the Artificial Intelligence. Some quite of time has passed, for the first time Charlie Reader asked over science radio to the AI to unlock Bit, I hoped that Bit's repairs were done and everything was diagnosed to be in correct order. AI brings this to radio channel. I gave my okay and minded my business off to somewhere. Then, I hear about Bit being locked down for the second time and I receive PDA messages from them which I denied the unlock. Bit asks to be blown up, I try not to blow up Bit at first and I told him that he would be better off being active on lockdown. Bit would then take to an unexpected point and starts broadcasting over the radio about the whereabouts of the Nuclear in the vault. Which presented me the two tough choices, either shrug it off like it's nothing and say it's a malfunctioning cyborg or to blow it up without letting anyone know. I went with the second choice, to blow it up. I order the Artificial Intelligence to blow up the cyborg however it was unable to blow up the cyborg because it is 'unlinked' to Artificial Intelligence. So, I proceeded to detonate it on Artificial Intelligence's behalf. Then, what a coincidence, the telecommunications goes down for abnormal power activity checkup. I get the AI's attention to reactivate the power in the bridge and sat around once more.

Here is what I was not expecting, but the same can be said for Charlie Reader at me, was... Charlie Reader was caught in the detonation explosion caused by me. I received this knowledge through OOC knowledge which I head over to medical bay to check on Chief Engineer and spotted him on the bed which becomes an IC knowledge. Delta informs me that I have taken him out of the round when the round was already ending less than three minutes. Although, Charlie Reader was still alive but stuttering which is that he's in pain critical status. I walk to the Departures at the last moment, and spotted that Charlie Reader's recovery was accelerating due to Cheshire's wonderful arts of medical.

By filling out this staff complaint, I can make a strong case that this can be considered an IC issue and wish for this warning to be struck out. To bluntly say, Bit asked to be blown up over radio channel. He literally did ask to be blown up. Now, what does that tell you? Should I stay close to Bit or should I make distance between each other?

Argument persists between me and Delta regarding the majority loss of assets that could damage to corporation and then I bring up an interesting notion that Delta refuses to answer or even acknowledge, "Which has more majority loss of asset, 14 people falling down in elevator shaft because of Bit's actions or BIt's very own detonation wounding a person"? Delta ignores this notion then goes on to strongly imply that I self antagged as a Captain. The last thing he does? He blows me regarding my roleplay as a Captain, throwing a warning at me (which I will have to accept the warning as I held the round waiting at end round).

This is a weak case I can make on Delta's side "command staff needs to do their job RIGHT or leave it to someone else more qualified." Incognito, ForgottenTraveller, Alberyk, and I had this discussion regarding what determines IC issue. As I quote from IncognitoJesus from Discord, "Administration will not step in to make up for that because it's encroaching upon telling players what to roleplay. That is a policy administration has never adhered to, and will never follow." I do not personally wish to pursue this, but I am going to just set this case out in the open worth debatable.

Evidence/logs/etc: Did not managed to retrieve evidence/logs/etc in time as logs went up while I was a ghost.

Additional remarks: As I acknowledge and understood my mistakes from previous warnings and bans. Hell, I even spoke to Ricky a little more and had him make me understand the reason why I received the antagonist ban. However, in this case I do not plan to and will never acknowledge this warning as it is very justifiable in my case. There would be people would have done the same thing as Command Staff.

[Pratepresidenten]

Right then, seeing Im pretty much directly responsible for this situation to even be present. I did camp out at the surface level to do my Darwinism experiments, and I ended up at a count of 8, possibly more as I left to check a fire. I was locked down shortly after and hauled off to science, where Charlie Reader took over. They hauled me around, trying to unlock and repair me, but there wasnt much to be done seeing the roboticist had died. I kept PDAing the Captain and HoS, aswell as talking to the AI in an attempt to convince them to unlock me to help. I did notice that the AI did crash quite a lot of times, so your order to have me unlocked might have fallen on deaf ears, as I never recieved a single unlock.

After being hauled around for some time, I tell Charlie Reader to back away because Im going to ask to be self-destructed, and I did ask, an you declined my request after I had asked a second time. So I started stearing the conversation hard towards the vault and what would be inside it.

Although this is grounds for immediate scrapping, I kinda expected you to interrupt me over comms, telling me to shut it or whatever, but my story went on without interruption, and as I said the vault had a nuke in it, the self-destruct message popped. I explode, the scientist got caught in the blast, taking a shitton of shrapnel and getting their hand crushed.

Right after said detonation, RNG paid a visit and killed power to the entire station, making communications and rescue difficult, which was just really unfortunate for all parties.

Although it was somewhat of a difficult choice, I would have settled with being dragged somewhere safe and detonated, or even being shot to death.

Although I antagonized you pretty damn hard, I feel the situation could have been handled a little better.

[sonicgotnuked]

I was the CMO during this painful fun round. During the times of dealing with a flood of people with internal bleeding and broken bones that was caused by the borgs, I strongly believe that the captains blowing up the borgs without warning was valid because they where both traitors and both inflicting mass death and destruction with bit opening the elevators and the medical borg releasing a virus that gave you minor brute and overdosed you on Bicaridine.

Keep in mind that borgs have a five second timer and beeping noise that will get you the fuck away from it when it is blowing up, so I would see it as the robotisist fault that he did not move his ass in time and it was a shame that RNG took over and cut power to comms and the station, how was the captain supposed to know when a random event comes in at the worst moments? If I was in the captains position, I would of blown the borgs. You should not need to say over comms "I am blowing the borgs," when the said borg is spouting tons of super secret NT secrets into comms for the entire crew of 50 to hear.

I will just point out again, the amount of death those two borgs caused, they should and where blown because of it from the shit I had to fix while CMO in medical. The round was getting close to a little end anyway and the person did survive bit blowing up in his face.

[Scheveningen]

I honestly don't care if it was "valid" to detonate the cyborg. I don't care what the cyborg did to be detonated. Whether or not the cyborg deserved it is absolutely not the point.

Someone was close enough to the cyborg to have their hand blasted off into gore and be filled with nasty shrapnel. The person dragging the cyborg around was intending to try and fix the malfunctioning cyborg so that they remain an asset to the station. They almost did not live. When I informed UnknownMurder of this fact, he did not care the slightest bit. He remained adamant that it was the fault of the victim who was near the cyborg, and not himself who was perfectly able to use a headset to give people fair warning that a cyborg was about to go off like a grenade.

According to adminlogs, though, UM had little intention of doing that since he hit the detonate button three times impatiently.

If UM recognized the consequence of his actions and expressed even a smidge of remorse about it, the warning issuance would not have been necessary.

But I'm curious about something else. How the hell was Bit not dealt with earlier? Fourteen people got hurt because of him? What took the captain of the station so long in identifying the situation, and how was security not able to deal with this?

[Faris]

As the Detective during this round, I had identified Bit as the primary suspect and culprit shortly after the elevators were repaired the first time. All facts were relayed to the Captain, Head of Security and Chief Engineer as the unit was of an engineering module. Security was also constantly reminded of Bit, but I believe they were spread thin and suffered casualties.

[Garnascus]

I honestly don't care if it was "valid" to detonate the cyborg. I don't care what the cyborg did to be detonated. Whether or not the cyborg deserved it is absolutely not the point.

Someone was close enough to the cyborg to have their hand blasted off into gore and be filled with nasty shrapnel. The person dragging the cyborg around was intending to try and fix the malfunctioning cyborg so that they remain an asset to the station. They almost did not live. When I informed UnknownMurder of this fact, he did not care the slightest bit. He remained adamant that it was the fault of the victim who was near the cyborg, and not himself who was perfectly able to use a headset to give people fair warning that a cyborg was about to go off like a grenade.

 

Umm

I care! First off i am fairly sure that borgs beep pretty loudly when you blow them up. I feel like as long as the collateral isnt purposefully extreme we shouldn't really care that much. Purposefully extreme collateral would be like throwing a max cap in a crowd to kill one guy or something similar that results in multiple casualties.

 

But I'm curious about something else. How the hell was Bit not dealt with earlier? Fourteen people got hurt because of him? What took the captain of the station so long in identifying the situation, and how was security not able to deal with this?

 

Fourteen people got hurt because a borg actin a fool and we are worried about the collateral of one persons hand?

[Scheveningen]

Willful collateral as command staff is never acceptable.

[Garnascus]

Willful collateral as command staff is never acceptable.

 

i thought this was about the AI blowing up a borg and thus injuring a crew member?

[Garnascus]

ohhh UM was the captain. my bad!

anyways i feel like that swings it more in UMs favor. theres literally a clause that captains can do things that would be against regulations in crisis situations

[sonicgotnuked]

The robotisis should got a little warning when bit was sitting around asking to be blown up and used enough common sense to back away when it was asking for itself to be blown apart and then the five second beep you can get the hell away before your hand gets blown off. Prat even warned the robotisis that he was asking for a detonation! The captain fixed a crisis, and it sometimes may end with collateral dammage that would be less worse then the continued internal bleeding cases medical was being swarmed with. I'll tell you that a missing hand is a lot better then having internal bleeding.

If I recall correctly, the dude was not even missing his hand, I was the one who took out part of bit from his chest and actually fixed it.

[Scheveningen]

The guy did lose his hand. I jumped to him directly to see the damage wrought to him when he made an adminhelp complaining about the captain detonating the cyborg without warning.

I highly doubt anyone expected the captain to detonate the cyborg, in spite of Bit asking to be detonated. If someone asks to be killed and they're in cuffs, you don't shoot them. Bit was locked down. It was of absolutely zero threat to anyone and it was absolutely unnecessary to detonate it. It was overkill if anything else, overkill with serious consequences in relation to someone losing a hand and getting filled with shrapnel.

[Scheveningen]

Spoke with two witnesses today.

As it turns out, the full extent of the person's injuries were thusly:

Shattered left foot

Shattered right foot

Chest cavity filled with an egregious amount of shrapnel.

A mistake I made was in assuming the individual had a missing left hand as a result of the cyborg detonation. Apparently, the missing hand was a result of character set-up, and not because the detonation + ensuing shrapnel blew off the hand of the victim.

However, the victim was still stuck in crit for a fair few of minutes before being stabilized by Cheshire. Unfortunately for both of them, Cheshire was not able to do surgery on the individual given their own robotic hands were damaged enough to the point of dropping tools midway into surgery proceedings. Cheshire did what they could in stabilizing but was not able to heal Charlie to be able to walk.

In addition, testimony from the victim plus the player of Bit supports the fact that Bit was locked down indefinitely the first time it happened, as there was no "second time." If an order was given out by the captain to lift the lockdown (for whatever reason), it was never heard nor acknowledged. Anyone viewing a cyborg console, also, would note which cyborgs are locked down and others that are not.

So, frankly, I've no idea why it was necessary at all to detonate a cyborg grenade in the midst of a hallway.

[UnknownMurder]

Alright. A debate happened while I was asleep. I'll just read over and have some say on it.

If UM recognized the consequence of his actions and expressed even a smidge of remorse about it, the warning issuance would not have been necessary.

Though, you would have warned anyways just like now.

Willful collateral as command staff is never acceptable.

This is a case-by-case scenario. It's both acceptable and not acceptable. Although, I can bring up some references from World War Two, regarding the controversy of the atomic bomb of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But, that reference wouldn't make sense in this case, though you get the point.

 

I highly doubt anyone expected the captain to detonate the cyborg, in spite of Bit asking to be detonated.

After being hauled around for some time, I tell Charlie Reader to back away because Im going to ask to be self-destructed, and I did ask, an you declined my request after I had asked a second time. So I started stearing the conversation hard towards the vault and what would be inside it.

 

This is something to expect. It actually is something coming from Bit.

 

If someone asks to be killed and they're in cuffs, you don't shoot them.

Because then, that would be murder.

 

Bit was locked down. It was of absolutely zero threat to anyone and it was absolutely unnecessary to detonate it. It was overkill if anything else, overkill with serious consequences in relation to someone losing a hand and getting filled with shrapnel.

Yet, it can spread over information regarding the corporate's secrets public communication which then makes him a threat and a danger to NanoTrasen.

 

In addition, testimony from the victim plus the player of Bit supports the fact that Bit was locked down indefinitely the first time it happened, as there was no "second time." If an order was given out by the captain to lift the lockdown (for whatever reason), it was never heard nor acknowledged.

Prate already mentioned this.

There are many other possibilities for that Cheshire could have taken.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry, Delta. After some quite of discussion and none of us are convinced to how this is an OOC issue and a mistake in your investigation. Anyhow, you'll have to concede on this one. As for my next point that no one has bothered to brought it up in OP, though it is a weak case and might not lead anywhere just yet. I will restate what I have said for everyone's convenience regarding Delta exercising his power to try and influence the roleplay.

 

This is a weak case I can make on Delta's side "command staff needs to do their job RIGHT or leave it to someone else more qualified." Incognito, ForgottenTraveller, Alberyk, and I had this discussion regarding what determines IC issue. As I quote from IncognitoJesus from Discord, "Administration will not step in to make up for that because it's encroaching upon telling players what to roleplay. That is a policy administration has never adhered to, and will never follow." I do not personally wish to pursue this, but I am going to just set this case out in the open worth debatable.

Yes, I know that there is a rule in "Roleplaying Characters" section that informs the users playing on the server to perform your job to a satisfactory standard. Although, forgive me for having lawyer personality for a moment. I just noticed this detail part of the rules but I suddenly do recall in my argument with Delta that Delta has mentioned that I am whitelisted command, yes, and I'm expected to be a role model at all times with exception of non-antagonists, although the rule says differently, "Note that you are not expected to be a role model employee..." I am not wearing a tinfoil cap over my head, but I would like to say that Delta is possibly attempting influence the roleplay of Command Staffs into what he wants them to be like. Delta has already strongly implied that I have acted as a self-antagonists, but I would like the investigators to know that I am already antagonist banned and I already had a chat with Ricky_madenson in how to be a proper antagonist in order to make an effort in my roleplay.

[cloud]

Okay so I wrote a big thing but it didn't go through so here's the abridged version, sorry for the bluntness:

I was Charlie Reader, the research member dragging Bit around running diagnostics etc, and from an IC standpoint I didn't see anything physically wrong with wires and so on.

Bit, however, was never unlocked since I was dragging it around the entire round whilst it was locked.

My argument behind blowing up a cyborg is that from both an IC and OOC perspective they're costly in-terms of resources/research, and when it was locked down no longer being a further harm to crew, transferring it to Central for a diagnostic would make more sense since no doubt they'd wanna see what was physically up with it/otherwise see how it was hacked in order to update based on that and make sure it doesn't happen again in the future. I feel like there were a good few alternatives rather than blowing it up anyway, since it was talking about the nuke. You could've had its radio disabled, or removed the positronic brain from the chassis without fully deconstructing it. I don't feel like you'd kill someone asking to be killed in Security, so I don't think it should be any different with a cyborg which, looking at it from a purely corporate standpoint, would likely be worth more money.

Anyway, yeah. I don't play with sound on, and I didn't know they made a noise when they're about to blow up. I think that still, as I was dragging it around public hallways for a good half of that round, a warning should've been issued over the radio that it was about to be blown up. But there wasn't. Anywho, my character bust both of their feet and had a decent chunk of shrapnel in their broken chest. I was also stuck in hard-crit for a while. Whilst it admittedly lead to a lot of lovely RP, this isn't what my ahelp was about. It was more referring to the act of carelessly & needlessly blowing up a cyborg, least of all with no warning/in a public space when it's no longer a physical threat and when there were alternatives available.

[sonicgotnuked]

Whilst it admittedly lead to a lot of lovely RP, this isn't what my ahelp was about. It was more referring to the act of carelessly & needlessly blowing up a cyborg

 

I am just going to ask a counter question to this.

Robotics is a popular job, why do we have a self destruct button in the first place? We could all just lock down said borg and drag it to robotics then if it is the case of what you claimed.

The thing was spouting secrets into comms about NT to the crew of fifty or so. Why should NT put effort and money into fixing something that is causing a loss of asset and killing around 3 people and almost killing around 11 more people? It was blown, because every second it was alive, it would of been spouting more secrets that would cost a lot of assets and secrets. NT does not care for their one robotisist who got injured, they care more of protecting their assets more then the crew itself. That needs to be kept in mind.

It would be a different story if bit did not want to be blown, but he asked to be blown then started spouting NT secrets TO be blown. The entire "expensive machinery" thing is to protect borg players from the poor excuse of blowing them because they are cheap and useless.

I honestly don't see how this is a problem and warning worthy anymore. Bit got what he wanted, to be blown. cloud got good RP out of the situation, and the captain killed something that was a reason why many people flooded into medical with internal bleeding.

[Arrow768]

I played the AI that round.

The reason for not unlocking bit was quite simple, due to client crashes when changing z-levels I spent quite a lot of time reconnecting and just did not notice the order to unlock Bit.

Keep in mind, that the detonation of a borg is by no means instant.

The borg self destruct gives you 5 seconds with two very distinct sounds being played as well as a verbal announcement:

WARNING: Self-destruct initiated. Unit [src] will self destruct in five seconds.

5 seconds is usually more than enough time to get away from a locked down cyborg and out of robotics to safety.

If I would have been the captain and a cyborg would disclose company secrets I would detonate it aswell.

The question "What is more dangerous: Crew members that might possibly be cought in the blast or Company Secrets being disclosed to the crew" is answered easily: "A bell can not be ungrung" where as medical can treat injures by crew members that are cought in the blast.

Also take into account the LI of the captain. It ensures they uphold the interests of the company, not the crew. (Which are in that case two entirely different things)

[Arrow768]

Alright, so I made a few tests with a borg and human testsubjects.

The distance between the testsubjects and the borg was altered during the tests.

I found out, that if you start walking away once you notice the warning announcement, you have a good chance of escaping unharmed or with light injuries with no shrapnel embedded.

After 6 detonations with a distance of 5 tiles between the borg and the testsubjects, shrapnel only embedded twice.

If you run away and manage to go around a corner, you will not be injured at all

If you just run away in a straight line and get the maximum distance between you and the borg before detonation, there is also a very high chance that you are not injured at all.

So, if a reasonable effort is made (start walking / running when the warning message is displayed) by players to escape a borgs detonation, then they can do so with little to no injury.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Guest

[Muncorn]

I'll put a small aside, mainly in responce to Sonic's more recent post. The self-destruct is nearly exclusively used to destroy synthunits that are an active threat, and that are unable to be easily taken down. Only time I've seen it used otherwise (barring this occasion) is in stupid manners that required admin intervention much like this, or an antag doing it themselves to take down a possible threat (Even seen malfs do it to their own borgs as a weapon, though that's a rare scenario). Ridding of the feature would be a detriment and a problem in many scenarios, and that's why it's there. No circumstance will lead to it's removal.

[Garnascus]

All these arguments about "collateral" and "borgs are costly assets" boil down to one thing. its the captains call to make. He is the highest authority on station. I think delta's arguments have significant flaws. The knowledge about the nuclear device on board the station is literally one of the captains most important duties. Its existence is a very closely guarded secret. It implies that nanotrasen is absolutely willing to kill every last person on the station should a threat arise that cannot be contained. That judgement call is left to the captain. ANYONE shouting that particular secret from the high hills could be silenced. It is absolutely a good enough reason to blow up a borg.

Now lets examine the text of the warning itself.

 

Warning added by scheveningen, for: Warning issued for blowing up a cyborg that was initially locked down just because it was giving away secrets about the nuke existing. Got someone who was attempting to fix the cyborg grievously injured, due to not warning anyone they were detonating the cyborg prior. Hamfisted reaction in dealing with a cyborg leaking corporate secrets, in spite of the destruction they caused, command staff needs to do their job RIGHT or leave it to someone else more qualified.. |

 

I will just go point by point

 

Blowing up a cyborg that was initially locked down just because it was giving away secrets about the nuke existing.

 

As i have explained this is absolutely a good reason to blow up a cyborg.

 

Got someone who was attempting to fix the cyborg grievously injured, due to not warning anyone they were detonating the cyborg prior

 

As arrow has testified there was absolutely enough time for the roboticist to escape harm. Therefore the injuries he sustained where his own fault.

 

Hamfisted reaction in dealing with a cyborg leaking corporate secrets, in spite of the destruction they caused, command staff needs to do their job RIGHT or leave it to someone else more qualified

 

Delta, in this situation, you interpreted the events wrong, and what should have been an IC issue got a warning. No command staff do not neccessarily need to play the correct way. That is mostly because past a certain point the "right" way to play relys on the judgement of the player. That is why we have the role whitelisted. I think that if someone can provide a cogent line of thought on why they did what they did then we shouldnt dig too deep. At least in situations where the collateral is avoidable and the reasoning is evident.

[Scheveningen]

It implies that nanotrasen is absolutely willing to kill every last person on the station should a threat arise that cannot be contained.

 

Alien rounds are not canon and thus not indicative of what NanoTrasen would actually do during a canon round. Personnel and assets are all expensive to replace, and thus very few of the aforementioned can be considered "acceptable collateral". I do not believe in acceptable collateral, it is a euphemism to dehumanize non-combatants being killed or injured during a violent situation, and when used inherently removes culpability and responsibility in leadership. It is a sad excuse to allow people to get killed on the watch of a commanding officer. The round was non-canon due to extreme antagonist involvement and thus nobody could make a report ICly about the captain blowing up a borg near a civilian without warning anyone. If someone is typing in response to someone either in person or over the radio, they don't have five seconds to walk away, because not everyone is going to be looking at their screen when typing, they're going to be looking at their keyboard.

The warning would've not been placed if UM gave more of a shit besides an apathetic response in PMs, or admitted it was a mistake. I would not have escalated were it not for the

immediate attitude of his that refused to take culpability.

When I talk about standards as a head of staff, I go by this entire thread of Skull's that he drafted in November two and a half years ago: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=603

All of these virtues still apply for heads of staff. Not abiding by them makes you a bad head of staff, not a good one for adhering to your own code. When you apply for a head of staff whitelist, you agree to abide by not only our server rules but also to abide by regulations, directives, and the nuances of properly leading. A leader that is not even present is not a leader at all. You are not leading by good example when you allow collateral damage to happen.

 

As i have explained this is absolutely a good reason to blow up a cyborg.

 

Without warning, no it is not. It is gank to immediately take the borg out of the round to do so and complete negligence as a head of staff to respect crew safety. Anyone who is remotely competent with explosives will cry "Get clear!" before detonating them. As a borg is a hot grenade when set to detonate, it operates on the same principle. Someone nearly got killed because of this.

 

As arrow has testified there was absolutely enough time for the roboticist to escape harm. Therefore the injuries he sustained where his own fault.

 

Victim blaming without adequate prior warning. I never resort to blaming a victim unless they were warned by multiple mediums prior to watch out, which was not done by the captain. The captain did not inform the crew of his intent when undertaking such an action that could easily cause brutal maiming or death to anyone in the near vicinity.

 

Delta, in this situation, you interpreted the events wrong, and what should have been an IC issue got a warning. No command staff do not neccessarily need to play the correct way. That is mostly because past a certain point the "right" way to play relys on the judgement of the player. That is why we have the role whitelisted. I think that if someone can provide a cogent line of thought on why they did what they did then we shouldnt dig too deep. At least in situations where the collateral is avoidable and the reasoning is evident.

 

Someone playing a whitelisted role and failing to do the most simple acts such as warning people when they're detonating a cyborg is absolute negligence to do their job to an acceptable standard. If the lack of a warning before detonating the cyborg by UM was a mistake, this should've been communicated to me, the warning wouldn't have been issued. The warning was issued because they did not take any responsibility for this action or at least tell me they'll improve from the mistake and do it better next time. The warning was issued because there wasn't a cogent line of reasoning being given right then and there when I was asking them.

[Garnascus]

Keep in mind, that the detonation of a borg is by no means instant.

The borg self destruct gives you 5 seconds with two very distinct sounds being played as well as a verbal announcement:

WARNING: Self-destruct initiated. Unit [src] will self destruct in five seconds.

 

So you do not agree that this is sufficient warning [mention]Scheveningan[/mention]

[Scheveningen]

You pinged the wrong account.

Not really, no. Take into consideration how long it takes to react to a cyborg you're intending to pull to robotics to be repaired. The moment anyone sees that, they're going to panic, but unlikely because it requires a few steps:

1.) It takes at least a second, at most even more to read and register that a cyborg is about to blow up.

2.) Depending on the individual, it takes one to two seconds to figure out how to stop pulling a soon-to-be-live grenade for a person. Either by clicking the pull icon on the HUD or by mousing over the cyborg and ctrl-clicking them, this still takes a second or more to do.

3.) Being able to run a decent distance without getting caught by a wave of shrapnel headed your way, within the very few seconds you have left.

This is different from avoiding actual grenades with timers because the very design and look of a grenade is identifiable enough to react to and avoid. There are less steps involved in avoiding grenades being thrown your way.

If a security officer threw a frag grenade at an antagonist with civilians nearby and the civilians got hurt, I'm fairly certain that officer would get spoken to by staff and told to be careful the next time they do it, and advised to give adequate warning the next time a similar situation presents itself.

[sonicgotnuked]

because not everyone is going to be looking at their screen when typing, they're going to be looking at their keyboard.

 

And not everyone is going to play with their sound on. Five seconds is plenty of time to click tab, click escape, what ever and run. If you don't play with sound on and you look at your keyboard constantly while typing, it is you who should deal with the consequences. It is like no sound on games like CS:GO, you have sound to hear footsteps for people sneaking behind you or a general position of the enemy. If you are looking at your keyboard, then it would make sense you miss so and so run across your screen.

There is certain consequences of not having your sound on in a game that has sound and uses it to tell you of someone is shooting someone, blowing a borg, etc. How is UM supposed to know these things? No one has a magical eye that sees some dude with his sound off or is looking at his keyboard half the time because he is new to typing.

If it is partly based on his sound being off, I find that highly invalid for the reasons stated above.

 

It is gank to immediately take the borg out of the round to do so and complete negligence as a head of staff to respect crew safety.

In what way shape or form was this gank? This thing makes me question how much of the round you witnessed that day.

The borg litterly killed two people, gave eight people internal bleeding, and severely injured four more. The other borg was traitor also as a medical unit and overdosed people on Bicaridin. Shall we call that gank? IC actions cause IC consequences, the borg was blown up because of this and we attempted to blow the medical borg but we couldn't, so we cornerd it into the CMO office.

 

unless they were warned by multiple mediums prior

Someone should not need multiple warnings, they only need one warning. If the RD warns they placed a bomb inside security and baldiMcCurity walks in and blows up, I think it would be their fault. (If he wasn't a fresh spawn that is)

Bit gave the robotisis a warning saying he was going to try and get himself blown up.

The second warning was the beeping and five seconds.

NT proven to kill crew when needed multiple times. I seen multiple examples of NT putting their assets over crew. The station has a nuke for a reason. It is to 1. Protect assets or 2. Protect the system in which something will cause loss of asset.

 

Anyone who is remotely competent with explosives will cry "Get clear!" before detonating them. As a borg is a hot grenade when set to detonate, it operates on the same principle. Someone nearly got killed because of this.

There already is a thing about that. It is the five second beeping and the message so this entire point is invalid.

Multiple times delta have you stated without warning like a borg would instantly blow apart. I find five seconds plenty of time to run the tiles needed in a straight line. The damage the person got implied he was right next to the borg blowing up.

[Scheveningen]

You and UM both have whitelists, right?

 

 

What's the issue with communicating? What is stopping a captain from communicating to the general crew to "watch out, I am turning the cyborg leaking corporate secrets over comms into a firecracker"?

If UM at the very least admits their failure to communicate was a mistake and they'll make more invested attempts to communicate better, I will remove the warning from their record.

[sonicgotnuked]

Also keep in mind that grenades and borgs blowing up is a lot diffrent. If you are standing next to it, you are likely to get the shrapnel. A few tiles away, not so much. A grenade will send shrapnel basically its like of sight. I seen shrapnel travel down the hall infront of the mourge from the grenade blowing up in front of the chapel.