[1 Dismissal] Delet cloning for non Protohumans

[Pacmandevil]

The problem: Medical is a clone factory with minimal In game reason to save lives instead of cloning, encouraging incompetence to a degree

The solution: Delet cloning to a degree. make the only cloning equipment on station (Which is supposed to be really fucking expensive tech) protohumans only. - also add a check for lings so they can't clone infinite Genomes.

You wouldn't even have to really change the cloning, just make the mind not go in the body - still requiring a scan.

Replace the "resurecction" part of cloning with a defib system like TG has, with regents that reverse the body's/limbs/organ's decay. so it's a viable alternative to cloning.

"but X got gibbed now he's fuckd!"

Print off a proto human and do surgery? put some effort into it.

[Zundy]

100% this. As it stands cloning is lame.

[calion12]

ooohh, this is a fun idea. I agree with most if not all points made and think actually trying to save a life rather than just "What's that, he died? Oh well, throw him over 'ere, let's clone 'im" would be quite fun on top of being very very satisfying if pulled off right.

[Superiorform]

I hate the "clone-trooper" aspect of medical, that forces me to make sec officers uncloneable. Maybe we could make cloning an RnD only thing?

[Kaed]

Last time someone said to remove or make cloning harder, Alberyk complained that 'death is cheap' was a core mechanic of the game. I don't expect his viewpoints have super changed. But I don't know about the other admins feelings on the matter.

[JKJudgeX]

I like the idea of resurrection through medical science much more than I like cloning.

I'm not sure how the proposed system should work because I haven't played on tg in a long time. Do you use protohuman parts to replace damaged organs and limbs, and then resuscitate the victim with a defib when they are livable?

I think that would be pretty cool if so. It takes the silly magical-ness out of cloning. If cloning works the way it does now, I should be able to clone living people and just have multiple copies of them. I would definitely do this with competent crewmates.

[Pratepresidenten]

The problem: Medical is a clone factory with minimal In game reason to save lives instead of cloning, encouraging incompetence to a degree

The solution: Delet cloning to a degree. make the only cloning equipment on station (Which is supposed to be really fucking expensive tech) protohumans only. - also add a check for lings so they can't clone infinite Genomes.

You wouldn't even have to really change the cloning, just make the mind not go in the body - still requiring a scan.

Replace the "resurecction" part of cloning with a defib system like TG has, with regents that reverse the body's/limbs/organ's decay. so it's a viable alternative to cloning.

"but X got gibbed now he's fuckd!"

Print off a proto human and do surgery? put some effort into it.

 

As this all sounds nice and fun, putting more effort into medical procedures is gonna do more harm than good. As it stands right now, medical casuals couldnt pull a man from the brink of death even if their own life depended on it, and you want to add more complex mechanics to a place where people barely understand whats up and down?

Bodies would effectively pile up or get tossed in the morgue because usually when medical turns into a "Revolving door" cloning facility, the people playing there are usually too swamped to deal with anything else, especially an extra clone, double surgery and wakeup calls for the newly created Frankenstein's monster.

If you ask me, people should put more effort into their characters and their survival. Put on a DNC, act more in accordance to your environment or hostile situations. Appreciate your spessman life more and fight for said life instead of just "lol lets rush teh gunman becuz we have cloning".

[Butterrobber202]

The problem: Medical is a clone factory with minimal In game reason to save lives instead of cloning, encouraging incompetence to a degree

The solution: Delet cloning to a degree. make the only cloning equipment on station (Which is supposed to be really fucking expensive tech) protohumans only. - also add a check for lings so they can't clone infinite Genomes.

You wouldn't even have to really change the cloning, just make the mind not go in the body - still requiring a scan.

Replace the "resurecction" part of cloning with a defib system like TG has, with regents that reverse the body's/limbs/organ's decay. so it's a viable alternative to cloning.

"but X got gibbed now he's fuckd!"

Print off a proto human and do surgery? put some effort into it.

 

As this all sounds nice and fun, putting more effort into medical procedures is gonna do more harm than good. As it stands right now, medical casuals couldnt pull a man from the brink of death even if their own life depended on it, and you want to add more complex mechanics to a place where people barely understand whats up and down?

Bodies would effectively pile up or get tossed in the morgue because usually when medical turns into a "Revolving door" cloning facility, the people playing there are usually too swamped to deal with anything else, especially an extra clone, double surgery and wakeup calls for the newly created Frankenstein's monster.

If you ask me, people should put more effort into their characters and their survival. Put on a DNC, act more in accordance to your environment or hostile situations. Appreciate your spessman life more and fight for said life instead of just "lol lets rush teh gunman becuz we have cloning".

 

Or we could remove cloning.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I do enjoy the mechanics where defibs can turn someone from dead to critical - having similar mechanic here would be great. However, removing or radically altering cloning is a bad idea. It is already riddled with a lot of technical steps, the head attached to the body, biomass, alkysine for post-cloning treatment, working cryo tubes, the ghost actually in the body, and knowledge of how to clone is only in the qualified medical staff.

If you are an antag and don't want your target cloned, then sabotage the cloning bay.

Alberyk was right in saying that death is cheap, but that's a bad way to word it.

Being cloned and put in some rando protohuman body would not foster better roleplay or fun interactions or tell a better story.

[JKJudgeX]

It seems like the problem of brain death would likely be solved by SS13 times. I like the idea of a defib that brings you back from the dead, but you immediately die again if what killed you hasn't been fixed.

I think it adds more realistic continuity to characters than the weird "I was cloned oh no I died that sucks" RP that we usually get. I think it also adds some pressure to medbay to really try to bring someone back, and gives a lot of incentive to stick around and stay in your body even if you are dead, which might do a lot of good for other reasons.

The brain should be an easily destructible object once out of the head, but that's something that you intentionally have to do to fully permanently remove someone from the round.

I've also always thought that you should be able to go into an MMI, be extracted from it, and transplanted back into a normal body afterwards. Also, a posibrain should be able to go into a normal body. Just sayin'. Let's change the way death works, it'll be fun.

[Pacmandevil]

I do enjoy the mechanics where defibs can turn someone from dead to critical - having similar mechanic here would be great. However, removing or radically altering cloning is a bad idea. It is already riddled with a lot of technical steps, the head attached to the body, biomass, alkysine for post-cloning treatment, working cryo tubes, the ghost actually in the body, and knowledge of how to clone is only in the qualified medical staff.

If you are an antag and don't want your target cloned, then sabotage the cloning bay.

now you'll have to sabotage/steal the other resurrection thing. not that big of a change

 

Being cloned and put in some rando protohuman body would not foster better roleplay or fun interactions or tell a better story.

 

No, but "Patched together mess of a human being" would probably have better RP than "Oh I died and now I good ok thx"

protohuman bodies would likely be the least common one, most likely resulting from getting gibbed.

You could probably write those off as being Non canon alltogether, while keeping cloning as we have it lore wise restricted to like hospital stations or large stations like the odin.

[Diggey]

You could probably write those off as being Non canon alltogether, while keeping cloning as we have it lore wise restricted to like hospital stations or large stations like the odin.

 

Well,the Aurora however is a state of the art kinda really important station

it would have the merit to merit a state of the art cloning device,I do however still support the necessity for more elaborate cloning,player death should be an extreme,not something you can handwave and cloning technology is basically beeing pushed by one developer with little competition (as far as I remember)

maybe allow cloning like we have it currently for special cases like people who died mere minutes ago and the more extreme means are for more extreme cases like someone who has been dead for 30 minutes in mining or died of acute poisoning or somesuch?

With the rework of the genetecist job coming back this could be an aspect of that

If cloning is so darn elaborate make it a speciality job

seriously xD

[Butterrobber202]

lmao words.

 

the re-work of geneticist has been scrapped. it will very likely never come.

And while the Aurora is a State-of-the-Art Station, it's a research station and mining station first and foremost.

[Diggey]

the re-work of geneticist has been scrapped. it will very likely never come.

 

Still lobbying for that

[N8-Toe]

I think Removing cloning is a great idea. to echo what others have said death is cheap. Ive steadily been playing more and more medical and it feels like apathy is key, as no matter what we can clone them. no one stays dead for long so if an antag kills off people who could hinder them, such as say the detective or heads of staff, all they are really doing is taking a major risk to remove them for all of fifteen minutes, as well as many people seemingly not reacting to the death of their fellow as they know they will be back. the defib idea is great as it gives medical a chance to pull a hail mary save while still not being a magical revive button.

[TrickingTrapster]

Guys, I personally think removing cloning is a terrible idea. I hear a lot of you call the IC aspect of it into question, but let's look OOCly what the system does for players.

Cloning basically keeps you in the round. It prevents you from being forced to play another character, or having to do nothing for a whole 30 minutes. Getting cloned allows new RP opportunities for your character, and since you were still playing them, you will still be fresh into their mindset as opposed to have to switch into another character. I'm fairly sure a lot of people just kind of opt out of playing the round altogether if they die with no way of getting back into it instead of changing characters. Waiting is NOT FUN. If you have competent medical staff it cuts down your waiting time to take part in the round again. Even worse, if you do really wanna play space station and you logged on to play that one character you want, but you get killed with no cloning 15 minutes in? "Oops, sorry, please wait at least 1 hour and 45 minutes before you are even getting a chance of playing this character again." This is why cloning exists. Don't take it away. Moving it to a more secure location so only high-ranking staff or specialised staff may access it, that would at least still make it possible. But I'm fairly sure cloning was put in to keep players happy and an IC justification was put after it. A research station would definitely have researched cloning, I agree. Ready and available for when valuale crew dies. I also agree that it's currently easy to clone but this is more attributed to the players than the system - Familiarity breeds ease.

[Zundy]

Cloning was put in because SS13 was supposed to be low roleplay borderline death match.

In a heavy roleplay setting it's dumb. The idea that players can't roleplay beyond their super special character who must always survive and be the hero is depressing but I'll not soap box in this thread regarding that.

The prep time for the defib idea is slightly longer then cloning so it won't impact on anyone's time out of round too much. The point is to just do away with the low rp that flows from cloning (who even roleplays being cloned properly?) and at the same time, open cloning as a research tool regarding protohumans and what not. It adds more avenues for roleplay.

[TrickingTrapster]

Nooo, you're missing the point entirely.

Cloning, or something similar, is actually sort of needed in heavy roleplay environments. If your character dies early in the round, what kind of interactions can they have if they are not brought back? Heavy RP is about playing your character, building them up and making connection, building relations etc. All of which are so possible when you're dead, right? Nooo. Miners falling in pits, EMTs resueing them falling in other pits, engineers forgetting gloves -once- and electrocuting themselves. Oh yeah, fun totally isn't ruined when you just want to build on a character more but OOPS THEY DIED because antags decided to rambo the fuck outta the place. What's even the point of having multiple characters if you can't play those that die. You should have multiple characters to play if you get bored of others, not as backup for when you die. That's a terrible mindset.

[Zundy]

Nooo, you're missing the point entirely.

Cloning, or something similar, is actually sort of needed in heavy roleplay environments. If your character dies early in the round, what kind of interactions can they have if they are not brought back? Heavy RP is about playing your character, building them up and making connection, building relations etc. All of which are so possible when you're dead, right? Nooo. Miners falling in pits, EMTs resueing them falling in other pits, engineers forgetting gloves -once- and electrocuting themselves. Oh yeah, fun totally isn't ruined when you just want to build on a character more but OOPS THEY DIED because antags decided to rambo the fuck outta the place. What's even the point of having multiple characters if you can't play those that die. You should have multiple characters to play if you get bored of others, not as backup for when you die. That's a terrible mindset.

 

Truuuuue, but the defib still allows ya to come back with a minor increase in wait time whilst getting rid of the clone nonsense. It's win win.

[N8-Toe]

I have seen defibs done on other servers as bringing people back withing X amount of minutes after death as long as their injuries are not to much. this gives more room for rescue and recovery. but on cloning and being out of the round, Death should be avoided. while this is obvious I think death is cheap right now. Come any disaster or attack the crew can replace its numbers quickly. Same point I made before really. while it sucks to be out of a round as a char you want to play, it adds more weight to actions. if someone dies it changes from a temporary setback to them being GONE.

[themaskedman2]

Honestly I hate cloning, it is a devisive opinion I know but what it does is make death feel more like a minor setback. It makes you not care as much about dying. It makes medical slack at their jobs and let people die so they can clone them instead.

Idea, what if we forced cloned individuals to be a sort of sub type of their race? Something like "Cloned Human/Unathi/Etc". Having this would reduce your max health and make you weaker and generally just super unappealing. We can reason it out as "Recently Cloned individuals may suffer adverse side effects for the first couple of days after cloning." This would make death not take you out of the round, but also hopefully heavily discourage cloning as an alternative to proper medical care or death.

I propose something like this.

Joe Schmoe, a Freshly-Cloned Human!

"They look abnormally pale and frail, they must have recently been cloned."

Less HP and Stamina

Weaker (Weaker punches and breaks bones and such easier)

Get's hungry quicker

And probably some other things Im not thinking of right now.

[LordFowl]

Voting for dismissal. This topic has been raised ten thousand times, and ten thousand times it shall fall.

[Pacmandevil]

I should make a PR for this, thanks for reminding me fowl

[SeniorScore]

I fucking hate how cloning is handled lorewise and in game, would make me fairly happy to see it's removal on station.

[Butterrobber202]

I fucking hate how cloning is handled lorewise and in game, would make me fairly happy to see it's removal on station.