Increase Medical Healing Times

[Haveatya]

Medical is nice and well designed. It has a cool sublevel and some patient wings. Too bad no one ever needs to get there except to be ganked by a Vampire and Changeling (*high five to that guy*). A quick clot and a toss into cryo cells cures most people within two or three minutes. I'd advocate for much longer times of healing. A maximum of two of each type of damage per minute. An individual that gets diced with an energy sword and earns 60 brute should be feeling the pain awhile. This change promotes the use of acute patient wings and encourages long term care and respect for medical protocols and personnel. Now at first many people may hate this idea, but realize this is a heavy role play server. People do not want to get injured and even in Star Wars or Star Trek, injured personnel are still taken off duty for a decent amount of time.

This may be jumping to a second suggestion, but it is tightly related. Increase the time of surgery actions to take a minute or two each. Surgery takes time to perform properly.

[MO_oNyMan]

I'm all for increasing healing time. My vision of this situation is to make it considerably less efficient unless a person is lying down in bed. Old bandages inducing infenction if not change can also promote prolonged downtime and health care. However if this is to be implemented i would very much like for patients' ward be moved to somewhat more accessible area to prevent it from turning into a graveyard (medics are busy treating patients on main level while at the remote and quiet sub-level a couple of mostly helpless people are just asking to be succ'd)

[Ornias]

Medical is nice and well designed. It has a cool sublevel and some patient wings. Too bad no one ever needs to get there except to be ganked by a Vampire and Changeling (*high five to that guy*). A quick clot and a toss into cryo cells cures most people within two or three minutes. I'd advocate for much longer times of healing. A maximum of two of each type of damage per minute. An individual that gets diced with an energy sword and earns 60 brute should be feeling the pain awhile. This change promotes the use of acute patient wings and encourages long term care and respect for medical protocols and personnel. Now at first many people may hate this idea, but realize this is a heavy role play server. People do not want to get injured and even in Star Wars or Star Trek, injured personnel are still taken off duty for a decent amount of time.

This may be jumping to a second suggestion, but it is tightly related. Increase the time of surgery actions to take a minute or two each. Surgery takes time to perform properly.

 

YES PLEASE TO ALL OF THIS

I've wanted this for so long, and while people may say "future medicine, of course it's a quickfix", bare in mind that being shot and being good to go in 30 minutes is a quickfix. That shit takes months IRL.

100%, please, and especially on the surgery. As a sidenote, having a way to rush it (harm intent) in exchange for risks of cool side effects during desperate situations would be cool.

Oh, and perhaps having the combat/syndi medikits being able to fix damage faster (say, 5 per minute) to give antags the upper hand and the bravery to get into firefights.

[Garnascus]

Horrible idea. Getting shot is already a dice roll. Are there competent medical people playing that shift or are you going to die in surgery? You cannot reasonably expect me to sit around for 30 minutes while im being healed. I can ghost and respawn in 20.

[Conspiir]

The problem with this is no one wants to lie in medical for a half an hour in a bed in the sublevel. No one.

The doctors don't want to sit and watch a person lie in medical for a half an hour in a bed in the sublevel.

(It would also make no sense for the bad guys to have better medical care than an advanced research station, if you want to go more realistically.)

I'm very against artificially inflating the time it takes to heal people. People hate medical already, let's not make it worse.

[Pratepresidenten]

It seems like a suggestion with good intentions, however.

If you have a crashing patient with internal bleeding, you dont have time to spend 4 minutes to fix it. They'll bleed out during this time. Or if you have a patient near death, you dont have the time to wait around for chems to work, because with the most grievous injuries, your patient will most likely die.

The increased injury recovery time can be compared to brigtimes. Assault, for example, is a 15 minute sentence. If we were to bump that up to 40-60 minutes? That doesnt make it fun for anyone.

[Zundy]

I'm for this because roleplay. I'm operating under the assumption that:

-Injured folks will RP with medical staff and visa versa.

-It will potentially encourage players to think about getting injured before running into a gun fight, uncharged baton in hand.

-Antags would get better healing items due to their role in the rounds story (they shouldn't die like little bitches).

Is this not going to be the case if this idea was implemented? I guess if you absolutely don't want to wait then by all means ghost and respawn though that sounds very light roleplay to me.

Might it be worth implementing for a week or so as a test run in the same way we test ran the delayed chem reactions?

[Munks]

Sliplocker McWeldspace the traitorous Chef finds you checking crates in maint and shoots you. Fortunately, you manage to scream HELP MAINT over comms five times, but by the time people figure out what maint you're in and get to you, you're at 120 brute. Stabilized, you're brought to medbay and rushed immediately on the spot into the OR because the surgeons managed to not be SSD or off in the bar getting drunk. After around 15 to 30 minutes for your bone repair, internal bleeding, and implant removal, and you miraculously not dying in the OR, you are wheeled down to the patient ward.

Well, now damage heals at 2 points per minute. Enjoy your hour long break! This is fun!

Even if you actually did think this through you are wrong and arbitrarily making everything more tedious and slow does not make for an entertaining video game. Which is what this is. A video game. Not real life. Video games are meant to be fun, not be made realistic in the most boring sense possible. Surgery and healing take time to occur, just like real work shifts are more than 2 hours long, and just like you don't have a decently high chance of being shot or falling off a cliff at work every few hours. If this somehow ever managed to see the light of day, as long as I am capable, I will no longer use medbay at all when injured and just turn my sensors off and enter a cryopod so i can respawn in 15 minutes rather than have to be sitting around doing nothing for half the round.

[Chada1]

In opposition to the straight heal time concept, I would suggest Bruises and other left-over injuries actually be given some minor effects, such as a bruised limb taking significantly more damage than a non-bruised one. It tracks bruises, but the issue is tracking that you were bruised after being hit, since the wound reopens. What i'm suggesting is that an unhealed bruise be a hazard. This can be done in other ways, as well, such as 'your limb hurts' always happening so long as you're bruised, or very rare slips or slightly slowed moving for bruised legs (Or jsut a chance of red text of limb pain each time you move) and similar for the other limbs. Basically, minor issues that constantly remind you that you need to get your bruises treated properly. At the moment, noone cares about them, and roles like Cult could just get immunity to this sort of thing so that's a non-issue. Resting could be made to increase bruise heal time, to give resting an actual purpose. And beds could increase it even more, as well as comfy chairs. At the moment, I never see Bruises heal, so this isn't an unwelcome addition IMO.

These are all good ways to implement this that aren't going to completely destroy game balance and absolutely force you to sit in a bed for 30 minutes, it'll just encourage you to take it easy when you can.

The reason the 'Brute point' gain concept is not good is because a person with 100 brute would already get treated with it via chemicals. They would be bruteless immediately on reaching medical with a tricord injection. This is adding an unneccessary 'Solution' that doesn't solve anything. It's not even a bandaid, it's nothing. It's just a bad idea that maybe can lead to good ones. Not to mention, if it weren't treated, someone at 150 brute would sit in medical for over 30 minutes to an hour and barely be able to move at all. A level of crippled that is only fitting for critically injured, blood loss, and missing/broken limbs. No pls. -1 unless you go with a less dangerous concept.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Guest

[Zundy]

I have seen the light with the above. It's a -1 from me at this point.

[Exia]

I have an idea specifically for surgery. Basically have a value that is proportionate to how much damage that particular body part took until the bone broke, capping at a specific point. This value will only start to decrease after bone repair surgery has been successfully conducted. Using the until-recently broken body part, for example, in the case of the arms and legs, will have several risks depending on the current 'bone-damage' value.

Using the legs as an example with 30 as the max cap.

Value at 25-30: Walking has a medium chance of re-breaking the limb, sprinting has a 100% chance of breaking the limb. Reduced movement.

at 15-25: Sprinting has a high chance of re-breaking the limb. Reduced movement.

at 10-15: Sprinting has a medium chance of re-breaking the limb. Reduced movement.

Below 10: Reduced movement until healed.

If the patient simply runs out as usual, they will most likely break their bone again, and so rest is required. Standing up, the healing rate would likely be 1 bone damage: 1 minute, which isn't fun. However, resting accelerates the healing speed to about 2:1. A splint would also accelerate the healing speed regardless of if they are lying down or no. Yes, I just thought of these values on the spot. By no means are they set in stone. Thoughts?

[MO_oNyMan]

I have an idea specifically for surgery. Basically have a value that is proportionate to how much damage that particular body part took until the bone broke, capping at a specific point. This value will only start to decrease after bone repair surgery has been successfully conducted. Using the until-recently broken body part, for example, in the case of the arms and legs, will have several risks depending on the current 'bone-damage' value.

Using the legs as an example with 30 as the max cap.

Value at 25-30: Walking has a medium chance of re-breaking the limb, sprinting has a 100% chance of breaking the limb. Reduced movement.

at 15-25: Sprinting has a high chance of re-breaking the limb. Reduced movement.

at 10-15: Sprinting has a medium chance of re-breaking the limb. Reduced movement.

Below 10: Reduced movement until healed.

If the patient simply runs out as usual, they will most likely break their bone again, and so rest is required. Standing up, the healing rate would likely be 1 bone damage: 1 minute, which isn't fun. However, resting accelerates the healing speed to about 2:1. A splint would also accelerate the healing speed regardless of if they are lying down or no. Yes, I just thought of these values on the spot. By no means are they set in stone. Thoughts?

 

I like the direction of the idea, but i feel like the prolonged healing time was suggested not to create inconvinience and slow the pace of the game (as people above implied and rejected the project subsequently). The reason for a prolonged healing time is to make treatment process more immersive, create RP opportunities between patients and medics, give more job to medbay and make use of the gorgeous patient ward that is currently being used as a graveyard/kois garden. Ideally instead of getting to the lobby, being stuck with some needles, rushed through surgery and thrown out to get shot again there should be some meaningful process with opportunities for interaction.

[Haveatya]

Now that people are talking, some of them even insulting me or my intelligence (thanks). I threw out the idea to get people discussing how we can promote a more realistic medical experience. How this is done is not something I expect any single person can come up with but I believe is something to be addressed.

It upsets me that people would rather die than roleplay a recovery experience. On a heavy roleplay server you shouldn't be so quick to say 'this isn't valid hunting' or 'I can't be saving the station from a blob'. People do actually get hurt and have to recover. I know that on a real life level, you really appreciate interaction and see a different side of people who are injured or around people that are injured.

With this in mind I still support the concept and reasoning behind my suggestion. I also don't actually think my suggestion is a great solution to the current medical system. I'd like to see what we, as a group can come up with.

[ben10083]

I see your point [mention]Haveatya[/mention] but you have to think of the enjoyment factor. Yes it is more realistic to have to recover over a period of time, but is it enjoyable to the player to be laying on a bed in a room for 30 minutes? No. Although some may enjoy the RP, others will not.

[Ornias]

Throwback.

Honestly, I still want this a lot.

The main argument against it is that no-one wants to be infirmed for an extended period of time, which, make no mistake, I do see the merit in.

However, that same argument that punishment is not fun could be applied to all IC consequences, including injury in general. The question is, then, not whether it's fun to be punished, but whether the advantages of said punishment (both for the player, and others) outweigh the immediate disadvantage of having suffered through it.

For example, consider brig times. Brig times are frustrating for people who end up in them, because they get no interaction, and their (likely antagonistic) plans have been foiled. We could apply this argument to say that brig times are a bad thing, but they offer a series of advantages as well, chief among them being superior roleplay. You're punished for your actions, which means that your character needs to take some degree of responsibility for what they do. We don't remove it because that frustration of being defeated is necessary for conflict, because otherwise all you're left with is 'dead' or 'breaking the law'. The advantages are worth adding an 'unfun' mechanic.

However, brig times and medical times are two vastly different courts, I'd argue. This is because security has little reason to interact with prisoners, whereas medical has great cause to check in on patients, especially those that were greviously wounded. Thus, the extended period of time is not so much a time of being detached from the game as it is having your autonomy in said round revoked. You're still interacting, and you're still developing your character, provided that there are medical personnel to interact with you. This is a pretty big 'if', however, because it relies on both parties being interested in roleplaying, as well as the doctor being free. Assuming this is the case, the only situation where it would be 'boring' or 'sitting out of the round' is one where you yourself are not interested in roleplaying being infirmed, which is a little bit distressing. If you don't normally roleplay the effects of being a 60 year old scientist who's just been shot in the stomach, then you're only roleplaying when you want to, rather than all the time. Roleplaying at all times is necessary to build a cohesive roleplay environment.

A further few points to consider:

• If you're shot by an assassin once and live, you're likely going to be recovering for 10 minutes or so in the sublevel, where you are relatively unprotected, unless you have a guard on you. The sublevel can be broken down into from above as well with a hoist, shovel, and either C4 or RCD. The amount of roleplay that someone breaking into the patient ward could provide could be very cool.
• Things like internal bleeding can be fixed by applying an IV with the correct type of blood ASAP, negating the blood loss.
  
• This system will mean people are slightly more likely to die. As it is, when someone comes into medical, you know they will, unless they get an incompetent doctor, almost certainly live, because our medical system is so reliable. By having injuries take longer to heal, this will no longer be the case. Some people like that, some people don't. It's just something to consider.
  
• You do not necessarily need to wait out the full 30 minutes from an attack. Take some painkillers, sign the waiver, and walk out after 15 minutes while still wounded. People do it in movies all the time. You're allowed to refuse treatment. Shooting someone while still bandaged and wounded from an earlier fight is absolutely awesome and should be treated as such.
  
• Wizard spells are supernatural, and should secede this limit. Same with syndicate kits, which I still believe should heal 5 per minute, perhaps more if resting.
  
• Like all things that punish harm, injury, or death, this should serve as encouragement for crew to avoid injury. This is pretty much a go-to argument for this kind of addition, but it is relevant nonetheless. A security officer that rushes an antag normally, is beaten, but survives and gets treated, is up on their feet within 10 minutes none the worse for wear. With this addition, you've now weakened your team by trying to attack without planning. As a scientist trying to rush the antag, even if you survive, you've just forced yourself to roleplay, the worst punishment of a validhunter.
  
• Poison leaves you bedridden, instead of being dealt with by just dialysis + 2 lil green pills. Poison is underused because a quick ";HELP I FEEL SICK" or ";HELP POISONED BAR" is enough to save someone who's been poisoned, usually without fail. In this, someone may be saved, but it will put them out of commission for a while. That in itself adds a new tool to use to get someone out of your way. Poison a roboticist, and when they're recovering steal from their lab. Poison the Captain, and use that as an opportunity to get him alone in the sublevel.

 

All in all, while there are some decent arguments to be made against the addition of this system, the positives greatly outweigh the negatives in my mind.

To have higher stakes, you need to have more to lose.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Medical recovery RP is one of the worst things I can experience in the game. I would be extraordinarily bored by it

[Ornias]

Despite the fact that this suggestion is over a year old, I'm still rooting for it hard.

Please consider it.

[Playbahnosh]

I don't do necrophilia, but...

As someone who plays medical almost exclusively, I do have some things to add.

"-Injured folks will RP with medical staff and visa versa."

Yea, no. In almost every single video game, getting hurt as a player is a temporary inconvenience. You either have automagically regenerating health or you just rub a medkit on yourself and you are good to go. Worst case, you die and respawn a few seconds later or reload a savegame. Players are not used to having to suffer through medical treatments (or the consequences of their actions in general), it's just not a thing in video games.

This is why people hate medbay with a passion. To most players, getting injured and being dragged away from their RP to be poked and prodded by "doctors" with sometimes highly questionable medical skills, is a nuisance. With more serious stuff requiring surgery, it becomes downright boring/annoying. The time they have to spend in the medbay is time they cannot do the things they actually want to do. In my experience -playing medical for years- the vast majority of people can't or don't care to RP being injured, most of them just AFK until they are "fixed up" and punted out of medbay or straight ghost out because they don't trust medical to save/heal them. Handicaps are the worst, literally no one RPs losing a limb or suffering drain bamage, they either act (if any) like it's some nuisance or straight go cryo/ghost because it's just easier to grab a coffee and just respawn with a healthy character than deal with being a cripple/vegetable for the rest of the round.

I hate to say it, but the medbay people are just as much to be blamed for this. Very few of my fellow doctors actually act like doctors, instead they treat the medbay as any other department, where RP and mechanics are usually separate. Either you are doing something or you sit and RP. But in medbay, doing something is the RP, eg. treating patients. You can't "play to win" in the medbay (or at least you shouldn't). No one likes when a doc runs up to you without a word, whacks you with the mediscan, stuffs you in the advanced scanner, injects you with god-knows-what and kicks you out with a "u fine", so they can get back to their chatty-RP session. The absolute worst is, when as a patient you do pain/injury-RP and it's the doctor who tells you to shut up. Not even a few days ago I suffered the same fate, because I was screaming/agonizing because of my torn off leg, and the doctor straight up tranq'd me because she was annoyed. When the giant red text tells you are in a huge amount of unbearable pain, you can and should RP that, and be allowed to. If a patient's screams of agony are clogging up your chat, maybe consider giving them a painkiller or talking to them to calm them down (not "shut up or I tranq you").
Of course you can't RP proper bedside manner when lives hang in the balance, but talking to the patient, explaining what's wrong with them and what you're gonna do about it is an integral part of being a physician and you should make the time for it, if even in a few words. Someone who is injured and probably in pain, is also scared and wants to know what's happening and what you are doing to help them. Silently injecting people and stuffing them into various machines is the exact opposite of patient care. On the other hand, patients shouldn't just AFK/ghost and do RP being injured and in treatment. If you can RP being a tator, ling, warden or CE, then you can be expected to RP being hurt. Period.

Also, the usage of long-term/RP-intensive patient care is largely dependent on people willing to play the patient, and sadly, almost no one does. This goes for doctors as well. Aurora has very detailed and well made Psych mechanics, even separate antag roles, but just about no one ever plays any of it. As a Psychologist, I had three (that is 3) patients in 11 rounds, and one of them was a ling trying to eat me. If you want people to use and RP these mechanics and parts of medbay/medicine, there has to be a willingness to do so from both sides, and not an arbitrary timer forcing them to do so.

"-It will potentially encourage players to think about getting injured before running into a gun fight, uncharged baton in hand."

Nope. 80% of injuries coming to medbay on average are all "self-inflicted stupidity". Eating Vaurca food as a human, falling down holes or elevator shafts, staying out in a rad storm, robusting yourself in the head trying to open a toolbox, bringing a knife to a gunfight, good 'ol alcohol poisoning, etc. Increasing healing times just gonna make people hate the medbay even more than they already do, and will increase the AFK/ghost ratio sky high. When your normal IC healing time from a boo-boo is longer than just ghost-respawn, you might as well get rid of the medbay entirely.

"-Antags would get better healing items due to their role in the rounds story (they shouldn't die like little bitches)."

Antags are already more protected than anything else. Anyone not security, who dares to even oppose an antag, gets bwoinked immediately. Antags are already untouchable by law, unless they screw up royally, which is their fault. It should be hard to play antags, they don't deserve any special treatment health-wise...or rather shouldn't...

Edited May 3, 2019 by Playbahnosh

[ben10083]

What is the actual suggestion? More detail than just the title please.

[Goret]

1 hour ago, ben10083 said:

What is the actual suggestion? More detail than just the title please.

The topic is one year old. The original author hasn't been around for a while.

If someone really want to develop this idea, it might need a new topic, detailed this time.

[Pratepresidenten]

I mean, the OP is straight forward.

On 04/01/2018 at 03:57, Haveatya said:

A maximum of two of each type of damage per minute.

So instead of it taking 10 seconds to heal 10 damage, it will take 5 minutes to heal 10 damage.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Medical healing rp is one of the most boring things you could make me do. This is good on paper but not fun in practice. 

[Ornias]

10 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Medical healing rp is one of the most boring things you could make me do. This is good on paper but not fun in practice. 

why do you feel this way Jack Boot

[SatinsPristOTD]

We play 2 hour rounds, theoretically. If I get attacked by bats in the warehouse (which is pretty common as my cargo tech), half my round is sitting in medbay with doctors like  *REDACTED*, who wouldn't even give a TRAUMA patient the time of day, let alone my "recovering" character in the secluded sublevel. It'd de-evolve into sitting alone in the sublevel while Medical attempts to catch up to the steady flow of antag related injuries. That's probably the biggest problem: Medical can't sit there and do a lot of heavy RP because we're the only people keeping you alive after the malf-AI blows half the station up, or when the ninja saws off your foot. Hell, half of us have to do macros just to get in surgery actions/IV use/shots.

And, theoretically, you wouldn't just be roaming around medical as a "healing" patient. You'd be in your sub-acute room, laying down, resting. There's--no RP you can do, realistically, and that's the point of this change: Realism.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

7 hours ago, Ornias said:

why do you feel this way Jack Boot

 

3 hours ago, SatinsPristOTD said:

We play 2 hour rounds, theoretically. If I get attacked by bats in the warehouse (which is pretty common as my cargo tech), half my round is sitting in medbay with doctors like  *REDACTED*, who wouldn't even give a TRAUMA patient the time of day, let alone my "recovering" character in the secluded sublevel. It'd de-evolve into sitting alone in the sublevel while Medical attempts to catch up to the steady flow of antag related injuries. That's probably the biggest problem: Medical can't sit there and do a lot of heavy RP because we're the only people keeping you alive after the malf-AI blows half the station up, or when the ninja saws off your foot. Hell, half of us have to do macros just to get in surgery actions/IV use/shots.

And, theoretically, you wouldn't just be roaming around medical as a "healing" patient. You'd be in your sub-acute room, laying down, resting. There's--no RP you can do, realistically, and that's the point of this change: Realism.