Staff Complaint - Coalf

BYOND Key: BurgerBB

Staff BYOND Key: Coalf

I really want to like coalf, I really do but it seems like there are a lot of problems when it comes to him interacting with others. I don't usually do complaints about other player's conduct until there's actually enough information/evidence of issues because if I complained about every single issue that happened then it won't be taken seriously, so here is an entire thread of him. I don't know if it's an attempt at humor or a legitimate issue coalf has right now but it's starting to get to the point where it's becoming a problem when communicating with him. He gets upset really fast, usually unprovoked or accidentally provoked, especially when it comes to arguing.

Let's start with the stuff I have no evidence about since that sort of thing happened first.

I think it started one round where I was talking in deadchat about a really bad wizard. I did not know at the time coalf was the wizard himself, but I quickly learned to know what since he would hop in deadchat, while still playing wizard, trying to arguing about his ability to play wizard. It's fine to argue but it was a strange incident, and I don't even know if I should include this since I do not have the round ID or really any proof that this happened, but it did happen and it felt a little strange. Not worth making a complaint about it on it's own, but still something to remember. Some other users might remember.

The second time was when I was discussing things in deadchat, peacefully and calmly, and coalf butted in the conversation, shitposting and meming his ass off. Again, this is acceptable given it's the fucking internet but apparently he was shitfaced or trying to be funny or something. It was really noticeable, but once again I do not have logs. Some other users might remember where he berated people then went emotional and started complimenting everyone.

Third time, I swear he did something really stupid or something, but then backed off and made this really strange thread. https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10918

I could've sworn some incident was related to it, but I am not absolutely certain.

Then, here is the stuff I have evidence about.

First incident has nothing to do with me, but I saw it regardless it it's strange as heck so it might be relevant to the situation: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10067

I don't know the full situation, but it just seems odd to make an application for an already filled position and linking a discord message containing "If you think you can do a better job, apply."

Second incident is this thread where he literally baited me into answering questions and demanded that I was PR banned because of a single bad pr and seriously misintrepeting my responses: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10730 The complaint itself was filled with exagerations and it was just offensive to read comining from an admin.

Third incident was recently, where a bad AI got him killed and despite the situation being solved by administration, he continued to complain and bicker in deadchat, ooc, and discord about it

Fourth Incident was when people were advocating for the removal of secret extended, and he decided to leave his input like this: https://i.imgur.com/dgndH5J.png

Fifth Incident was the one that just made me throw my arms up and actually bother to write a complaint up: https://i.imgur.com/9WBOmzO.png

If this was another player I honestly wouldn't give too much of a shit about, but when someone is actually an admin and this is how they behave, this raises a few eyebrows.

Let's start with actually relevant things.

I think it started one round where I was talking in deadchat about a really bad wizard. I did not know at the time coalf was the wizard himself, but I quickly learned to know what since he would hop in deadchat, while still playing wizard, trying to arguing about his ability to play wizard. It's fine to argue but it was a strange incident, and I don't even know if I should include this since I do not have the round ID or really any proof that this happened, but it did happen and it felt a little strange. Not worth making a complaint about it on it's own, but still something to remember. Some other users might remember.

Yes this "Bad round" was called a "Bad Round" because quite frankly your raised the whiniest complaint I ever did see which was "You didn't interact with me"

In the round I have asked MULTIPLE TIMES who would accept the blade, Only Quinn accepted.

Further me and Quinn have made NUMEROUS announcements that we're looking for "Brave and Chivalrious individuals" to which only 2 ever responded and lastly we VISITED every department and stood mass with about half of the crew because we donated to the church. We did everything to interact with the crew as much as possible but you decided that I didn't give specifically YOU enough attention so it's a bad round.

But still I humored you, I thought "Well if he thinks it's bad I better ask everyone"

So I asked, I asked in OOC, I asked in Dsay what the issues were and I asked for people who didn't feel comfortable to PM me in discord so we can talk privately without my adminrank being in the way.

Only Amory accepted this invitation and we had a fruitious talk in which we discussed about how cheaply I used my abilities, that being Flesh To Stone and Fireball.

[mention]AmoryBlaine[/mention] , [mention]Worthy[/mention] , [mention]Goret[/mention] , [mention]TheGuyThatIsAFK[/mention] were all present in the round and can confirm my part of the story.

The second time was when I was discussing things in deadchat, peacefully and calmly, and coalf butted in the conversation, shitposting and meming his ass off. Again, this is acceptable given it's the fucking internet but apparently he was shitfaced or trying to be funny or something. It was really noticeable, but once again I do not have logs. Some other users might remember where he berated people then went emotional and started complimenting everyone.

Yes I was drunk at the time and I do remember this conversation and I belied it shaped on of your suggestions about which you thought about even after, that "Security hinders antagonists from interacting with crew"

Yes that was the discussion, I did intrude on your previous discussion of complaining about how the ninja isn't "Interacting with crew" as he was actively being pursued by lethal equipped security officers and jaunting away or hiding in lockers.

I don't remember it being "meymey" but I do remeber you being very upset about the fact I disagreed with you.

Hell when I saw that you were personallity offended in the way I spoke, I apologized SPECIFICALLY TO YOU in discord which you aknowledged as an apology and said "It's okay."

So I guess it wasn't okay.

Third time, I swear he did something really stupid or something, but then backed off and made this really strange thread. https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10918

I could've sworn some incident was related to it, but I am not absolutely certain.

I thanked the playerbase.

Yes I wrote a much longer post before but I realized it sounded cringy so I edited it to be much shorter.

It was I think a week after Aboshehab made an announcement thanking every department of staff so I thanked the playerbase because without players I wouldn't have anything to moderate.

I am sorry that you come from a background where a Thank You is viewed as some kind of escape plan.

Then, here is the stuff I have evidence about.

So until now you just assumed I did something bad because you dislike me or because I disagreed with you?

First incident has nothing to do with me, but I saw it regardless it it's strange as heck so it might be relevant to the situation: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10067

I don't know the full situation, but it just seems odd to make an application for an already filled position and linking a discord message containing "If you think you can do a better job, apply."

"I don't know the full situation"

So once again you're just assuming I do everything out of malicious intent because of you personal dislike of me because it was addressed, INSIDE THE THREAD that this "Application" was a double-faced criticism thread that had effectively HELPED the development team as it allowed me and MANY OTHERS to express their concerns regarding ME AND JACKBOOTS.

This is the starting spark to why we have deputy position, why articles have been churning out slightly faster and why there have been overall more cannon events.

READ THE THREAD

Second incident is this thread where he literally baited me into answering questions and demanded that I was PR banned because of a single bad pr and seriously misintrepeting my responses: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10730 The complaint itself was filled with exagerations and it was just offensive to read comining from an admin.

You ADMITTED that you made the PR just from your own selfish desire to have more people visit your kitchen which you stopped playing 2 weeks after anyways, this PR has led to people DYING because of the poor balance, Skull having to make a statement on that thread admitting it was his and Arrow's mistake for letting the PR slip through and you are being hounded for this PR to this day by not only me but the a lot of other people which don't even associate with me furthermore I said in the thread itself that my actions were rushed and I should have made a player complaint instead of a ban request and I apologized for that too.

Third incident was recently, where a bad AI got him killed and despite the situation being solved by administration, he continued to complain and bicker in deadchat, ooc, and discord about it

Yes I continued to bicker about it WITH THE AI in deadchat because the AI itself GHOSTED and refused to admit it was its mistake I died even though other administrators took actions against it! I believe that if multiple staff members agree (and even other ghosts) that you messed up, you should just admit you messed up, again this was an opinion.

I would ping the player of the AI however I am not sure if he would like to be revealed at this time.

I seriously don't know what you're getting at, that I disagree with people? That I get into arguments? That I give my honest opinions?

Am I supposed to remind you of every time you decided to observe a round and bicker about it even though you had zero involvement in it? Am I supposed to remind you every time you decide that a round is "not fun" and do your best to make everyone else in deadchat think that?

Because I am going to.

Fourth Incident was when people were advocating for the removal of secret extended, and he decided to leave his input like this: https://i.imgur.com/dgndH5J.png

Yes the discussion upon my discord was FAULED and SOILED by the Faustian Demon Coalf who had been possesed by Belzebub himself!

Yes truly, truly I have disturbed the topic, I have derailed it like a train that CJ should have followed!

Don't forget that we should ban Nursie as she has agreed with me and my DEBACHEROUS WAYS.

If you're going to cherrypick atleast cherrypick a topic which I can't access so I don't show the whole thing.

Fifth Incident was the one that just made me throw my arms up and actually bother to write a complaint up: https://i.imgur.com/9WBOmzO.png

If this was another player I honestly wouldn't give too much of a shit about, but when someone is actually an admin and this is how they behave, this raises a few eyebrows.

>make general statements about the entire server

>make them constantly, call people who don't like my idea stupid and retarded

>decide to wake up one morning and make fun of everyone again

>community member disagrees with me

>calls me an idiot back

>tells me to post the suggestion thread instead of trying to start shit

>post the thread

>make a thread about all the times he disagreed with my opinions

I don't have to agree with you, I take offense at someone who has made multiple hacked up code PR's telling everyone else that the server sucks, I confront people in deadchat when I can right a situation that is being mis-interpreted, I do not have the same opinions as you, I call people idiots when I think they're being idiots, I call people selfish when they're selfish.

And I also happen to be an admin.

I am honest John, it's what I do.

I'm going to ignore the things without evidence for the time being, they're not really bad either really.

Then, here is the stuff I have evidence about.

First incident has nothing to do with me, but I saw it regardless it it's strange as heck so it might be relevant to the situation: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10067

I don't know the full situation, but it just seems odd to make an application for an already filled position and linking a discord message containing "If you think you can do a better job, apply."

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10067&start=50#p90556

He wasn't pleased, he wanted more open and transparent dialogue to address things he deemed issues. I don't see the issue with it.

Second incident is this thread where he literally baited me into answering questions and demanded that I was PR banned because of a single bad pr and seriously misintrepeting my responses: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10730 The complaint itself was filled with exagerations and it was just offensive to read comining from an admin.

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10730&start=10#p95587

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10730#p95544

People make unreasonable request. The ban request was unreasonable, it was deemed as such. He illustrated mistakes he's done, you addressed your side in the thread and nothing happened to you. Everyone is entitled to make complaints/appeals/requests on the forums, and it falls on the person handling the issue. You've made complaints in the past and if I recall correctly, we also found issues which we raised with you. I don't think I'll be reprimanding. It's one thing to exaggerate and post what they thought of your responses to faking evidence and outright lying.

Third incident was recently, where a bad AI got him killed and despite the situation being solved by administration, he continued to complain and bicker in deadchat, ooc, and discord about it

I checked discord, only found a single post. As for dsay, the argument I witnessed was a discussion between himself and the AI. People die, people lose, people are allowed to "salt" within reason. If it was extremely obnoxious or toxic, it would've been stopped if spotted. If it was reported by people and we deem it as such, we'll stop it. We have warned and banned members of staff before for rule violations. If you felt this conduct was such an issue, why didn't you ahelp it?

Fourth Incident was when people were advocating for the removal of secret extended, and he decided to leave his input like this: https://i.imgur.com/dgndH5J.png

I don't really see this as egregiously bad either? His feedback is ironic, maybe if I was there I'd have asked to approach the discussion in the same manner everyone else is. Discord servers as a whole are not really the place for completely serious discussions barring, that's what we have the forums and github for. We have punished people for this in the past but it's usually if not always on virtue of them not listening to staff for not knocking it off.

Fifth Incident was the one that just made me throw my arms up and actually bother to write a complaint up: https://i.imgur.com/9WBOmzO.png

This on its own would be belligerent, but with the insight provided by Coalf, it feels you're both going at each other. The ">insert x here" text doesn't really show any serious discussion here, in contrast to an issue you raised in point four, I imagine this is why he went this way. Is it a bit dickish here? Sure, but I do feel you're also at fault here.

Regarding the wizard round which you listed. I played Quinn in that round. We made every effort to interact with as many people possible while still juggling and dancing around security who were very much out to kill us. The main valid complaint Amory made is that we retaliated heavily against security, which honestly is my ''fault'' as I was the one to execute 3 security members that were out for us. Coalf mainly used his abilities that round defensively, it was my call to execute a few he had stunned, so honestly that gripe should've been directed towards me.

Regarding player interaction, we literally visited every department looking for ''Noble knights to join our court!'' and sat for a very long time in the holodeck with a bunch of other people just holding mass, as we donated a part of the station funds to the church/chaplain. And he did ask around for a good while on who wanted to be ''King Arthur'' in his gimmick. Which nobody took him up on it so I decided to throw him a bone and join.

I personally do not think it was a bad round from my biased I-was-the-antag point of view. I'm not sure how ''I think this round was bad and I argued about it in dsay and got argued about back.'' is relevant in this staff complaint?

What did I do?

What did I do?

Round on the day of 02/12/2018, you were the only one to PM me in discord to discuss the round as you were the other person alongside Burger who expressed they were upset about the round.

What did I do?

Round on the day of 02/12/2018, you were the only one to PM me in discord to discuss the round as you were the other person alongside Burger who expressed they were upset about the round.

Oh, right. Nothing to add.

I was one of the first who died in this round, and I had to watch the whole round. I can confirm that the wizard, Coalf, was everytime in contact with the crew. I can even recall, at a moment, that he was with half the crew in the hallways. So if you didn't got the chance to talk with him, it is simply your fault. Even, I do not see what is the point of saying that here since its a Staff Complaint and it have nothing to do with this round.

Second incident is this thread where he literally baited me into answering questions and demanded that I was PR banned because of a single bad pr and seriously misintrepeting my responses: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10730 The complaint itself was filled with exagerations and it was just offensive to read comining from an admin.

 

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10730&start=10#p95587

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10730#p95544

People make unreasonable request. The ban request was unreasonable, it was deemed as such. He illustrated mistakes he's done, you addressed your side in the thread and nothing happened to you. Everyone is entitled to make complaints/appeals/requests on the forums, and it falls on the person handling the issue. You've made complaints in the past and if I recall correctly, we also found issues which we raised with you. I don't think I'll be reprimanding. It's one thing to exaggerate and post what they thought of your responses to faking evidence and outright lying.

Perhaps I am insane but I find it insane that this is acceptable behavior from an admin, let alone an adult to do this sort of thing. A complaint is one thing but the circumstances regarding this complaint is another. He has made no effort to actually talk to me regarding the issue, other than quizzing me for some bait and then making a thread about it chatizing people who work hard contributing to the game. One it's own, it's next to nothing but given his behavioral issues that I've witness, it's just awful.

Third incident was recently, where a bad AI got him killed and despite the situation being solved by administration, he continued to complain and bicker in deadchat, ooc, and discord about it

I checked discord, only found a single post. As for dsay, the argument I witnessed was a discussion between himself and the AI. People die, people lose, people are allowed to "salt" within reason. If it was extremely obnoxious or toxic, it would've been stopped if spotted. If it was reported by people and we deem it as such, we'll stop it. We have warned and banned members of staff before for rule violations. If you felt this conduct was such an issue, why didn't you ahelp it?

Because at the time he only whined twice. On discord, he whined again like an hour after it happened and I thought that was worthy to complain about. Salt is fine, as you said, but if he's still salty about this sort of thing, especially after it's solved, then I think that's an issue.

Fourth Incident was when people were advocating for the removal of secret extended, and he decided to leave his input like this: https://i.imgur.com/dgndH5J.png

 

I don't really see this as egregiously bad either? His feedback is ironic, maybe if I was there I'd have asked to approach the discussion in the same manner everyone else is. Discord servers as a whole are not really the place for completely serious discussions barring, that's what we have the forums and github for. We have punished people for this in the past but it's usually if not always on virtue of them not listening to staff for not knocking it off.

Then you admit that there is an issue, however slight it is. He has a history of this sort of thing where if someone says something he doesn't like, he will act out like this which is just silly for an adult and silly for an admin.

Fifth Incident was the one that just made me throw my arms up and actually bother to write a complaint up: https://i.imgur.com/9WBOmzO.png

 

This on its own would be belligerent, but with the insight provided by Coalf, it feels you're both going at each other. The ">insert x here" text doesn't really show any serious discussion here, in contrast to an issue you raised in point four, I imagine this is why he went this way. Is it a bit dickish here? Sure, but I do feel you're also at fault here.

"Feels."

Let me tell you something about feelings. I probably should've felt that I should posted that alone because that would've been a better focus here. To me, it honestly feels like you're trying to make excuses to him because you're saying "No issue here!" and then "Well if I was there, I would've asked him to be nice."

There was absolutely no back and forth between coalf and us in terms of trying to get other people riled up. At most, my post could be considered a shitpost but to react in such a way to it is just eyebrow raising. Here's the transition.

From 0 to armchair psychology in 60 seconds. How is this acceptable? Even skull made a comment about it.

I don't know, I feel that there is an issue with coalf here, but I could be wrong. 25% of the intention of this thread is to see what standards the admins are held at and if there is no issue then I suppose I will support that decision.

Perhaps I am insane but I find it insane that this is acceptable behavior from an admin, let alone an adult to do this sort of thing. A complaint is one thing but the circumstances regarding this complaint is another. He has made no effort to actually talk to me regarding the issue, other than quizzing me for some bait and then making a thread about it chatizing people who work hard contributing to the game. One it's own, it's next to nothing but given his behavioral issues that I've witness, it's just awful.

HA

"chatizing people who work hard to contribute to the game"

Do you mean yourself or the dev team? Because the dev team admitted they made a mistake in letting your banged up PR through without properly checking it first, from then on it seems every PR you make is held under scrutiny by not only them but the entire server, something I considered as one of the possible resolutions in my ban request.

So yes, while a man might put as much effort as possible into trying to fill a bucket using a finger guard, it's still stupid.

Also I didn't "Bait" anything, if you saw the screenshot you knew that you, you yourself said to Garn that you did it for selfish reasons, hell even Garnascus asked "Are you serious?" to which you answered, yes. It's why I asked multiple times for clarification to which you again and again answered yes.

Nothing about my attitude at the time was "batey", if you were kidding it was your own mistake as I asked for clarification multiple times.

Because at the time he only whined twice. On discord, he whined again like an hour after it happened and I thought that was worthy to complain about. Salt is fine, as you said, but if he's still salty about this sort of thing, especially after it's solved, then I think that's an issue.

I'm glad that when I do it, it's whinning but when you do it, it's discussion.

I addressed the rest in my response, which you decided to ignore like the mature and grown big boy you are.

I also like the "Only" like you yourself admit it barely happened.

Then you admit that there is an issue, however slight it is. He has a history of this sort of thing where if someone says something he doesn't like, he will act out like this which is just silly for an adult and silly for an admin.

Oh sorry, next time I'll make a passive-agressive picture of this weeks popular meme and post it on a third party site instead.

Or maybe instead I should make a half-assed greentext attempt just vaguely making fun of people.

Or just call everyone who doesn't agree with me a "Retard who doesn't understand what I mean"

Because that's the adult and big boy way to do things.

"Feels."

Let me tell you something about feelings. I probably should've felt that I should posted that alone because that would've been a better focus here. To me, it honestly feels like you're trying to make excuses to him because you're saying "No issue here!" and then "Well if I was there, I would've asked him to be nice."

There was absolutely no back and forth between coalf and us in terms of trying to get other people riled up. At most, my post could be considered a shitpost but to react in such a way to it is just eyebrow raising. Here's the transition.

 

 

From 0 to armchair psychology in 60 seconds. How is this acceptable? Even skull made a comment about it.

I could have been nicer.

I don't know, I feel that there is an issue with coalf here, but I could be wrong. 25% of the intention of this thread is to see what standards the admins are held at and if there is no issue then I suppose it would be fine to go down to his level and deal with it on my own.

Wow I can deconstruct this one almost by every word.

I don't know, I feel that there is an issue with coalf here, but I could be wrong.

You don't like me, plain and simple, thinking there is a problem with someone without having any actual proof just means you dislike me, I am fine with that but a fair warning I might dislike you back.

"25% of the intention of this thread is to see what standards the admins are held at"

"If you don't punish this man this means you are all bad", how mature of you, if I didn't know any better I'd say you got the general idea from my Lore Head Application thread.

then I suppose it would be fine to go down to his level and deal with it on my own.

Yet when you default to a complaint and proceed to ignore 100% of everything I said you are simply not going to "go down to my level and deal with it on your own."

You are a hypocrite.

EDIT:

Fixed "hippocrite" to "hypocrite"

I had some expectations of what this complaint would be. By virtue of having talked with both sides via private channels about how they felt about the issue and the opposing side. And instead I got something relatively useless. Like, if I were head admin, this complaint would be relatively hard to pull something very concrete out of. You're literally just dancing around each other, not really talking about the issues.

But an invalid complaint doesn't necessarily mean there's not an issue. Granted I'm not active in-game anymore, so the shenanigans you two get up to in dsay is mostly foreign to me. But I have been tracking friction between you two for quite a while now. Coalf seems to hold Burger solely responsible for the questionable gameplay changes that Burger made, and the development team merged in. Which is stupid and conduct that only seeks to create a hostile work environment for people who bother to actually contribute to the codebase. You need to understand that it is not your job to police the contributors and the code that gets merged.

And Burger, you need to stop being passive-aggressive over this issue. Specially lately. Stop testing the limits and see if you can chill for a bit.

Ultimately, it'd be nice if both of you could either talk and cuddle your way through this, or just agree to disagree and not get on each other's nerves. For some reason, I believe the latter is more applicable in this situation. You both want what's good for the community, so start from there.

We did speak over discord.

The response from both was "I don't care"

So whatever

You need to understand that it is not your job to police the contributors and the code that gets merged.

I'm curious where administrator authority over the codebase ends. Do only the Headmins have a say over changes? Do Primary Admins? Do the Admins as a group (#AdminCouncil) get to provide their feedback for major changes first?

Or is it purely you and the maintainers that oversee our (limited) coders, and contributors?

Hello, AI that got Coalf killed here. Yes at the time I disagreed with my decision being directly wrong and yes I got salty myself over getting my first can't-be-removed warning but in hindsight I agree with my warning and I hold no gripes against alb or Coalf who I didn't know I actually killed before this thread (I have no idea who I RP with when I am ingame, I just play and have fun)

I greatly enjoy Coalf and his shenanigans, I do not hold any gripes against him and I hope he considers me with some branch of respect at least but I will speak my mind on the issue I have observed on both of you the last few months.

Coalf is a nice dude that wants the best for everyone, he does this by meming and being the class clown, working in ahelp and doing great (as far as I know) but he has the problem of getting emotional and letting this steer his hand.

Burger on the other hand is a player I don't really know who is ingame except for his chef character (Diona) I follow his PRs in github and watch him with glee as I hope the next thing he adds has any interest to me or affects me in a major way. Problem is that as I see it Burger is stubborn, maybe more so than me and can't take criticism as well as I expect from someone who spends so much time trying to please other people by adding to the game he enjoys, in turn making him slightly edgy in how he articulates himself and in turn have made me hesitant towards him, and this is just from reading what he writes.

These players from my perspective have huge great sides and are pillars of the community, but as any other human have things that aren't perfect. I hope you two can make up as you both represent two parts of the community I enjoy, as all boy-skuabbles I hope this is just a point where feelings have boiled over and a release was needed.

Good luck and take a break if you guys need it, you deserve it.

-Sebbe

You need to understand that it is not your job to police the contributors and the code that gets merged.

 

I'm curious where administrator authority over the codebase ends. Do only the Headmins have a say over changes? Do Primary Admins? Do the Admins as a group (#AdminCouncil) get to provide their feedback for major changes first?

Or is it purely you and the maintainers that oversee our (limited) coders, and contributors?

> #AdminCouncil

never.

Barring major changes (new gamemodes or shit like that), we do not give admins preview or heads-up on stuff. We may talk with them, but we may just as well talk to the playerbase or whomever. Or no one. Once the PR goes up, they have the same capacity to see it as any other individual. They do have a direct channel to me if they spot something weird.

I suppose there's an agreement between myself and the head admins that, if the head admins raise major stink over something, we'll give it a second guess. And sometimes we bring PRs to admins for feedback, if we feel it concerns their domain and is contentious.

Ultimately no admins have any power over git. The Head Admins do have box access. So them's the lines.

I just want to make an update on this situation as it seems that more people are giving their five cents or playing devil's advocate.

There was some miscommunication between abo, coalf, and I regarding a conversation. I was under the impression that I made it clear that I would speak to coalf about this when I actually wanted to speak some other time, as I thought I made clear to abo. I was busy playing AI on a merc round so I did not have time to do an actual conversation, and given the accusations put forth I did not have the temperment either. My only two points that I put forth was "Abo is an idiot for speaking on my behalf." and "I don't hate you, Coalf." but honestly that's all I have to say on the matter. It's not that I don't care, it's just that I didn't have the time or patience to deal with this at the moment.

Addressing people commenting on this, It's not stubbornness that's the problem (I don't even know how on earth that's related to this complaint honestly) but possibly passive aggression. I have issues with conveying the right emotions at time when speaking (given it's the fucking internet and it's text on a screen) and that's the problem here. I am easily provoked if a million voices are saying the same thing. For example I'm starting to get sick and tired of stale organ damage memes because it's now less humor and more petty spite. However, I don't think my passive aggression really applies here given how there was none showed when I made that junkfood PR and coalf made a complaint about it, and none was shown when I was speaking about how shit virology is given that how A. Coalf did not code virology or have any involvement in it, and B. The code itself is probably leftover from baystation or some shit.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to get paranoid when it comes to this complaint when it comes to the overall reaction. I've seen this sort of thing happen in communities where they bring up the faults of both sides and using those faults try to find some common middle ground in this situation instead of actually addressing the problem. It really makes me believe in this theory as first the response to the problem was "I don't see some actual issue with any of this." and now it's "Alright both sides have a problem now." which frightens me. It doesn't help that this is literally the first time I've ever heard a complaint about passive aggression, and I'm not just talking about me. There are several members of the community who show this behavior frequently, including developers and admins, yet apparently now it's an issue.

Now to address a few things.

One and the main one, it seems like you made this complaint not because of "Rising Tension" but mainly because of that single confrontation on discord. The Virology one, as the prior cases are built on much shoddier ground.

And yes, I blew my lid, perhaps more than I should have, but let me explain exactly WHY as you seem to have misinterpreted that.

I did NOT get angry because you made fun of the code, I got angry because you made fun of the server as a whole for not accepting your ideas.

Let me break it down.

>be HRP

>have virology

This statement basically says that virology is bad as it is for HRP, and I agreed, however they way you worded it seemed like you just plainly wanted it completely removed. Which I didn't appreciate and thus I responded with my "No harm in keeping it there" to which you blame something else

>be space corporation

yadayada we know how the rest goes

This implies you blame the entire setting, that this setup is nonsensical and we should just not have it, now this got me a bit miffed. I am (although only shortly) part of the lore team and I can recognize how hard it is it blend Gameplay, RP and the Setting together into an atleast tolerable mesh, you decide that the setting itself is just bad because you don't like virology, but you don't stop there.

>be hrp

>have rules against powerful kno-it-alls

>doctors who have 0 training in virology now have virology training because the round depends on it

This is what poked me in the wrong spot, because you always do this. As soon as something doesn't agree with you, you run to some other website/discord to complain about the SERVER as a WHOLE.

I spend stupid and frankly sad amount of hours playing and moderating this game, so yes at this point I just think "Okay he's fucking with me"

Now the other posts weren't all that relevant, at this point I was just half-assedly blowing them away but in the meantime I checked for something as I hoped to simply put "Make a suggestion thread" in the discord, but due to some strange foresight I checked the whole subforum.

And there it fucking was, your thread with your suggestion and guess what, people were disagreeing with you and it all happened to be about virology.

This is what got my tugger in a chugger, you decided that instead of addressing those points raised, you'd go to discord and just randomly "shitpost" as you called it, about the entire server. And you do this VERY often. Be it through a third media site or discord itself.

THAT is what upset me, not my relation to the code itself.

"I did NOT get angry because you made fun of the code, I got angry because you made fun of the server as a whole for not accepting your ideas."

"This is what poked me in the wrong spot, because you always do this. As soon as something doesn't agree with you, you run to some other website/discord to complain about the SERVER as a WHOLE."

I am now bittersweet because this means that you blowing your lid was not because of a vast, complex issue that would take time to solve, but a dangerous, frighteningly gross misunderstanding of my intentions when I poke fun at bad features. I like Aurora Station, I like the server, I love the server. I code for the server. I work to improve the server. I contribute to the server. I play on the server. I don't play on any other SS13 server because this is the one I love the most.

Saying that I think a mechanic is seriously unfit for HRP is NOT shitting on the server. Posting memes on reddit is NOT shitting on the server. 99% of the time when I post a meme on reddit, I don't even bring up the fact that it's aurorastation. Out of all the memes I've posted on reddit in the last few months, I think 3 directly mention aurorastation and they're not that bad.

https://i.redd.it/ypm7uxfebqs01.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/m0gGAI8.png (Title: Aurorastation is a state-of-the-art research facility.)

https://i.imgur.com/Wsmnvya.png (Title: The Absolute State of Aurorastation)

The rest mention either mention HRP or nothing at all, however if the memes are really an issue I'll stop posting them on reddit. As for other discords, I don't know where you're getting that information from. I'm part of 6 discords, 3 are aurorastation discords and 3 are personal ones that I have never mentioned SS13 in. In my carreer of shitposting on reddit, I've only received one complaint from a user who I think rescinded it after I spoke to them about it.

Frankly it's very hard to discern good intentions if they are packed under so many layers of brine that an eel would enter toxic shock.

No I won't and I can't even, forbid you from posting memes on reddit even if in my opinion they are poor tastes and frankly just whines, free speech and all that I am probably the last person to want to mute people due to posting memes on other chatrooms.

I explained everything and I'll do the adult thing.

I apologise for the virology incident, I got unreasonably upset simple as that, "butthurt" the kids call it.

I'm gonna add a thing because I've had plenty of negative interactions with Burger. Not flat out defending Coalf here because god knows why his own temperament gets the better of him, but I hardly care, seeing as how it'd be dealt with if it happens again anyway.

But Burger isn't an innocent victim here and he knows that he's still just as responsible for people reacting to him the way they do.

I am now bittersweet because this means that you blowing your lid was not because of a vast, complex issue that would take time to solve, but a dangerous, frighteningly gross misunderstanding of my intentions when I poke fun at bad features.

It's absurdly difficult to unmask intentions from a reddit post, which is generally why it is a good idea to not post something with a hint of contentiousness about a server you play on, while on reddit. Not saying you can't, but I'm still gonna be judgmental and say it's flat-out stupid to backtrack and make excuses like "It was just shitposting, it wasn't serious" while not realizing that the only thing the subreddit thrives on is drama, half-truth, and sparse context. When your posts reek of legitimate agenda-posting that's expected of typical redditors, and people call the stink out, you probably need to recognize the problem that's being addressed.

Whether you intend to or not, you're contributing drama to the subreddit, you're giving non-server regulars a poor impression of this server, and you're also giving server regulars a poor impression of what your supposed intentions are when you post these things on reddit.

Not saying you should be punished over reddit shitposting, but your coziness around being controversial and inflammatory will most likely get you in trouble.

It's frankly inconsiderate to the people you debate with when you recuse yourself with comments like "Stop taking it seriously, it wasn't meant for you to take it seriously" when it is such obviously set bait that you hope for people to bite. You then use this reaction when you suddenly get all serious to comment about how you were initially right in your supposed 'shitposting'. What did you expect? People to play nice around reactionary BS? Jesus. This is a poor form of seeking attention and you need to take responsibility for yourself on this, Burger. This is hardly an adult thing to do.

What do you want, Burger? To be taken seriously or not? Can easily do one or the other but not both.

His reddit posts are fine.

Not my point!

[mention]Scheveningen[/mention]

"But Burger isn't an innocent victim here and he knows that he's still just as responsible for people reacting to him the way they do."

"Not saying you can't, but I'm still gonna be judgmental and say it's flat-out stupid to backtrack and make excuses like "It was just shitposting, it wasn't serious" while not realizing that the only thing the subreddit thrives on is drama, half-truth, and sparse context. When your posts reek of legitimate agenda-posting that's expected of typical redditors, and people call the stink out, you probably need to recognize the problem that's being addressed."

"Whether you intend to or not, you're contributing drama to the subreddit, you're giving non-server regulars a poor impression of this server, and you're also giving server regulars a poor impression of what your supposed intentions are when you post these things on reddit."

"This is a poor form of seeking attention and you need to take responsibility for yourself on this, Burger. This is hardly an adult thing to do."

I don't even know how to address a post like this, in a thread as serious as this. If it was any other thread I would point and laugh at you for posting some of the most silly things I've read on this forum. You're doing armchair psychology while complaining about harmless shitposting I do on reddit which the head administrator said is fine, I honestly do not know what to say.

In my 1 year of being here, I've only had issues with 3 people: Coalf, you, and Kaedwolf, which I thought were resolved but it's clearly not since you're still making posts like these that are completely irrelevant to this thread.

I don't even know how to address a post like this, in a thread as serious as this. If it was any other thread I would point and laugh at you for posting some of the most silly things I've read on this forum. You're doing armchair psychology while complaining about harmless shitposting I do on reddit which the head administrator said is fine, I honestly do not know what to say.

You proved my point as I said you would.

Any time you take any heat you default to "I was just shitposting", "You're taking me too seriously", etc. This is your way of avoiding taking any responsibility.

You have nothing else to say because there's no excuse to justify your behavior. You deliberately bait people and act surprised when they get baited.

Delta has a slight point in that, our players visit le reddit. And they will discuss and respond to what's posted on reddit. Ergo, if you make a post, it can be brought up for discussion. It is your business not to take it personally for as long as the discussion isn't made personal. (Something which Coalf kinda voided in that one example, buuuuut Abo will probably get to that.) Though saying you contribute to drama is dumb, [mention]Scheveningen[/mention], because one could say that you're contributing way more to drama by being the peanut gallery for this thread.

Anyways.

I kinda wanted to address this bit in specific. And I'll preface this with stating that GarnAbo have final call on this, as handling administrative punishment is their call.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to get paranoid when it comes to this complaint when it comes to the overall reaction. I've seen this sort of thing happen in communities where they bring up the faults of both sides and using those faults try to find some common middle ground in this situation instead of actually addressing the problem. It really makes me believe in this theory as first the response to the problem was "I don't see some actual issue with any of this." and now it's "Alright both sides have a problem now." which frightens me.

But, the thing you have to note is. At the moment, the best that could probably be done is a wrist slap given to Coalf. There's absoloutely not enough evidence to do anything else, nor the precedence for it. We usually expect our staff to learn from their mistakes and shortcomings.

However. I have literally spoken to both of you over private channels. And I know that you both have a problem with each other. Coalf has an issue with the way you've implemented some features and your conduct around feedback, you have an issue with criticism and conduct. Both are more-or-less valid to a similar degree. Though yes I suppose that Coalf's handling of the issue could be more civil, but the issue would still be there. So the more positive outcome is for you two to find common ground and to figure out how to better get along and communicate with one another. As that would hopefully leave both of you off on a more constructive note and avoid future issues like this more easily.