Chada1

The laws desperately need QOL changes, I'll draft them up soon and PR them onto the github, but they need more room to fail and act within their character

Examples here: https://imgur.com/XRi25Nn https://i.imgur.com/SIChNJ9.gifv https://i.imgur.com/yx27Qtr.gifv Mostly for fun, but to be nice and practice as well

I mean, the new lawset applies to 'borgs as well, so it's not really exclusive to the AI, is what I was thinking.

Now that it's been in for a half week, how are people feeling now?

Out of these, this one is the most likely to solve all of your problems. If the new lawset included 'To the best of your abilities' where it used to, none of this would be an issue. I'm not sure how I missed that, granted, I didn't write the new laws at all ?

Most servers are using the same laws they've used for decades, they rarely have made any efforts at all to fix the problems with AI and their lawsets, instead they more often do like Bay and remove the role altogether. So this claim that the AI has been fine tuned and is heavily developed is easily considered nonsensical since in the past they've largely been more interested in maintaining the status quo than attempting to make any possible changes to how the AI is played. After we see this in practice following the 1st of next month, we can tweak the lawset more, but like, I think it's mostly fine, I just wish the sapient life would be expanded just a teeny bit more, and any further changes we can make later.

This is theoretically true but untrue in practice -- You still have to justify why you're ignoring the AI, you're just not compelled to do what they ask, if what they tell you is helpful and within your 4 laws, you still have every reason to listen to them. But I mostly meant the AI being awful (Validhunting, not acting appropriately to Crew) makes playing 'borg very unfun when it happens.

I'm very *very* happy with this change in direction, but like. Also, the direction it's going is exactly what I attempted to do with Upsilon unsuccessfully, so like. If that's never going to be continued/worked in/expanded on, that could potentially be retconned as well, all existent mentions of it are in the bugle, which is under rework. So it could be done during the rework if desired.

I'm so happy that the AI is finally whitelisted, not to be over dramatic but it feels as if I've finally been able to see Aurora take a first step towards finally eliminating one of the worst problems with Stationbounds, which is unvetted play of the AI who commands them. The laws still might need some adjustment like what Carpe said.

I'm really glad that the AI/'borgs are being removed from Antag/Crew interactions as well, it was what me and Amunak were hoping to do in a project before, actually, but it was discontinued due to really really negative response, I hope it works as well as I foresaw it working there in this case as well, I'm p. sure it'll drastically improve borg and AI for the better.

I'm seconding Ping here -- Caelphon, you can certainly do some minor-ish wiki work as a Lore dev I'm sure, so why do you need the extra responsibilities of Wiki Maintainer to do so? It seems like it's risking adding too much necessary work to your plate when you could do both Lore and Wiki without responsibilities towards the wiki, just so long as you kept the wiki team informed. ?

Geeves PR here: Thank you v. much PoZe, but also Geeves has improved it further for us, it goes on the ghostspawner when it PR goes up and then it'll stay for 3 minutes.

Removing the AI and 'borgs from being capable of harming most antags is a good change since it'll force 'borgs/AI to try more diplomatic approaches against them, but also please don't forget my law changes, they're super important to consider

O also I love the 'Protect/Safeguard Sapient Life on board' because it effectively cuts the AI and 'borg validhunting out at the source -- If a 'borg/AI is going out of their way to endanger/shut down Antags they're actually in violation of their laws with that change -- I think that's a good thing.

I also think the laws could use some adjustment as outline in the thread too: * Safeguard NanoTrasen facilities and ensure only authorized personnel gain access to areas of high security or importance to the facility and its operation. * Serve and assist NanoTrasen and assigned crew, with priority as according to their rank and role. * Protect sapient life on board. * You are a valuable asset. You must avoid tampering from unauthorized entities and destruction. The change from Station to facility will make the lawset not require a massive change in terminology for the next big thing, assuming the ship we'll be on is a NanoTrasen one. Two safeguards will be harder to memorize and confused when people say 'Law (Insert number) safeguard' in OOC and IC conversations. The removal of the damage clause from the old laws will return 'borgs to what they used to be, where they were allowed to rush into hostage situations as written since their existence didn't really matter. I added that clause so that they'd have a pseudo-fear RP and avoid lethal danger. Crew can still treat them as expendable and send them on dangerous missions around the station, the 'borg would just be expected to be seriously careful while doing it. Any number of other ways of fixing these problems work too but I'm seriously worried by them if we don't make changes.

I love this and I've been the champion so far for increased AI/borg responsibility and even the AI nerfs -- My only concern here is if 'borgs are remaining unwhitelisted, that they should continue to be unable to bolt, it is my favorite role to play and it was ridiculously negative to towards the game for them to be able to bolt like they used to, even with the delay I think 'borgs would be a massive problem in that area So maybe leave the bolting stuff to the AI and remove it wholesale from non Antag 'borgs? I dunno, but I'd prefer it that way.

This could almost be considered an accessibility feature because as it is anyone who needs to do CPR in their job can't be a person with arthritis or carpal tunnel or they'll be in agony.

Alright well, I'll see about coding the Nymphs onto the ghost role menu and making their pods work similar to Posibrains, I have no clue how successful I'll be as I've never touched this system Ever so if anyone wanted to help me with it that'd be great, but I'll try.

Ok, thank you for clearing that up, when I was bringing up the difference in the past I was told by staff that they Were comparable to rats, which is why I had this misunderstanding, if they're held like this and not treated as if they shouldn't try to roleplay at all, then it's ?

Right now it's a wish-washy thing. (And if we want to make this happen we should fix that) Some people (Staff included) seem to say they can be complete pests with the tradeoff that they can be killed by anyone for doing it, so it's IC. <= This line is exactly what rats were. Others (Staff included again) say they're held to standards and have to justify the things they do ICly. <= This line is what I would want them to be if we didn't remove the worst griefy features Also if a staff member would weight in on this that'd be super great

On another note, if we held Nymphs to higher standards it could be ? Such as actually bwoinking people who are using them to cause problems on the Station for no reason, so that the old rat behavior isn't allowed, that could be a good way to fix this problem without actually removing anything I guess. There'd still be the problem that the actual intent behind some of their mechanics (Box biting as the main thing) were literally designed with bad behavior in mind as the goal, tho, which is ? Other than these small problems with some of the features they've had (Just in relation from Rats, really) I'm actually a big fan of this idea

Not how it works, we literally removed Rats because they were abuseable and it made no sense to hold them to high standards, there is probably little to no way we're going to add nymphs back in their place with all of the old grief'y rat features Basically the question: WHAT VALUE does being able to chew apart boxes as a mechanic really bring other than annoying and griefing people? it really brings nothing. It was added to mice explicitly to allow them to annoy and aggrivate people. It's honestly a mechanic that could easily be removed from Nymphs with little to no value lost at all

I would like to also say, since we removed the mouse/rat role for not adding to the rounds roleplay and actively being a pest -- a precident is absolutely there to actively remove features from Nymphs such as the ability to eat boxes, live animals, and even a weakening of their bite/blood sucks, so that they're less abuseable overall, if it were necessary to make this go through ?

Well hello Jade, I'm going to be completely honest, from how I've seen you act in the past in the general Discord, I was going to post with negative feedback, because I felt you'd push away people on a dime who would come to you with questions/etc, but then you said you were working on increasing your daily mindfulness and self-awareness and having seen how absolutely effective mindfulness is (through reading tooons of studies and active practice of a religious nature) for curbing hate and hostileness first hand, I kinda can't really do that now since I think you can improve, and are practicing the techniques necessary to improve. I guess not for me to decide, since you're genuinely trying, so I'll stay on the fence a little bit, and just ask you some questions to help speed your idea of Skrell along. How do you see the Dionae's place in the Federation? How do they cope with the authoritarianism? Where do these changes land them? Are there any also residing in these disenfranchised groups? What about the current Glorsh rework, there's a ton of feedback that hasn't yet been taken and applied on the feedback thread, what would you change about it, how would you apply the feedback? Do you plan on expanding the Traverse and yet-to-be rejoined colonies around there? Where do these new factions come in around there, would the Traverse Skrell be like a home-made Estranged Expatriates? IIRC, it was kinda meant to be the Frontier but for Skrell, and mysterious. But never really made it to the fleshed out stage. Where do you plan to take the Skrell narratively, would you see their Lore more relevant to the Skrell on Station? And if yes, how would you make it more relevant to them? Do you think it'd be a good idea to make it more relevant to characters of other species, too? Thank you for reading and take care, hope these questions help your app some ?